Universe or Pick Programmer Needed

[Gail Knapp]

Lynden Incorporated

IT Software Developer II

 

LOCATION:  18000 International Blvd Seattle, WA 98188 

 

CANDIDATES APPLY:  https://external-lynden.icims.com/jobs/1315/job 

Lynden is a multi-mode transportation company, headquartered in Seattle, WA.  We are looking for someone with four years' experience developing applications in a business environment using Universe or other Pick variant language.  Previous experience should include systems analysis, design and a solid background of software development, quality assurance and integration methodologies.  Programming with Java (Swing, Angular or JMS technologies), C#, SQL, Crystal and/or Web development is helpful.  Project Management experience is a plus.

[Bill Crowell]

This is typical of job postings that I detest.

We want a Pick/MV programmer, but he has to know 3 other development stacks.

Java is a language. It has nothing to do with Angular.

Java is to JavaScript as Ham is to Hamster.

C# - are you wanting a Java stack or a .NET stack?

This is nothing more than alphabet soup.

[Kevin King]

Bill, nobody ever knows why people want certain skills but I know Gail and she wouldn't be asking without a reason. Give a little latitude eh? You don't have to apply.

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[Tony Gravagno]

I think "detest" is a strong word. Ad for MV developers could certainly be better. Many don't include the platform or confuse terms because they're written by head hunters who don't understand the technology. Other ads are written by HR people who also, and forgivably, are not technical. I've offered services in the past to help companies to find better talent through better ads but of course everyone thinks they're fine without such assistance, and the problems continue.

That said, sorry Bill, but welcome to the real world. Being a Pick/MV programmer and knowing nothing but BASIC simply doesn't cut it anymore. Our respected colleagues who don't move with the times are slowly aging and will be replaced by those who do. The more people complain about having to know stacks, the more MV sites themselves will be entirely replaced by multi-stack environments.

Your notes here actually reflect your own lack of understanding of how these technologies are integrated. Java is used on the back-end and JavaScript is used on the front-end - these days a lot with Angular. That they're looking for someone with SQL and Crystal experience means the environment is more diverse than just Pick. And that also implies that they might be using more than one stack than Java, so C# might indeed be one of the many languages used at this site.

I might be mistaken but I think Lynden is a huge and diverse tech shop which has employed/contracted a Lot of Pick people and non-Pick people. I believe their requirements do indeed encompass the tech requested here.

In summary - Once again, you have no idea what you're talking about.

Regards,
T

[Tom Gorton]

I totally agree with what Tony said. If it wasn’t for me adding skills like Java, SQL, SSRS, .NET and others to my tool box, I would not have been to afford myself the opportunities that I have gotten. In today’s world, developers cannot afford to pigeon hole themselves to any one language.

 

Regards,

Tom

Email Me

Phone/Text: (864) 729-3171

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[Will Johnson]

And I agree with Bill

Why would *any* company want someone who knows both Java and C# ?

That is just a recipe for future disaster as the entire house of cards come crashing down on you when that person leaves.

[Glen Batchelor]

  We have Progress 4GL, MS .NET, Java and a few disparate SaaS floating around. Yes, it's a disaster waiting to happen but it's what the company paid for as -solutions- not as technical architectures. As long as you can dictate the tools in your small world, stay there and enjoy it. It won't last forever, though. When the time comes, make sure you have a life raft.

Glen 

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[geneb]

On Tue, 18 Jul 2017, 'Will Johnson' via Pick and MultiValue Databases wrote:

> And I agree with Bill
>
> Why would *any* company want someone who knows both Java and C# ?
>

Nobody wants a one trick pony.

> That is just a recipe for future disaster as the entire house of cards come
> crashing down on you when that person leaves.

...only if the next person you hire is a one trick pony. ;)

g.

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[Peter McMurray]

Fascinating responses. I read it as experience in a presentation platform other than green screen not a knowledge of all of them, In fact I have advised a company against hiring a person with such a cv, I pointed out that it was impossible to have such expertise and that he had simply listed what was used by the many clients of the Pick support company he was a junior employee of. If I were younger I would be racing round there.

[geneb]

On Tue, 18 Jul 2017, Peter McMurray wrote:

> Fascinating responses. I read it as experience in a presentation platform
> other than green screen not a knowledge of all of them, In fact I have
> advised a company against hiring a person with such a cv, I pointed out
> that it was impossible to have such expertise and that he had simply listed

That individual may have, but that mix of skills is certainly not
impossible. In fact, I'd suspect that mix would be "common" until you add
multi-value in to the mix. THEN you're into unicorn-land. :)

(keep yer paws off my horn!) :D

[Glen Batchelor]

   I'm not sure if others would consider that a unicorn as much as a pink elephant.

[Tony Gravagno]

I'm blown away that anyone thinks these technologies are mutually exclusive. Of course, look at who's saying it. I have all of the skills in the OP and more, and I exercise them every day - plus lots of PHP.

Why would anyone want someone with both C# and Java skills? Duh, one employee costs less than two? The fact that they're so similar in language syntax (not framework) makes it easy for someone to cross-train.

Meh, it's not worth arguing with people who continue to broadcast their lack of skills. I just wish people who did use the tools would speak up more often. We'd have some very interesting discussions here!

T

[George Gallen]

Tony, Eat a Snickers. 

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[geneb]

On Tue, 18 Jul 2017, Glen Batchelor wrote:

> I'm not sure if others would consider that a unicorn as much as a pink
> elephant.
>

Ha! :)

[Will Johnson]

Tony you must be a hit at the Christmas party.

I can understand a company wanting someone versed in some form of non-green-screen technology

*But* hiring someone because you want *them* to decide for you which technology to go to, is not a wise course
And if the company already knows or has a particular technology, then advertise what you have

Don't go fishing around for anyone with *any* thing.  That's just too 1980s.
You will either get someone who lies, and the hiring manager can't tell the difference, *or* you will get someone who jumps ship in six months.


And Tony the unicorn, you might know every language ever invented, but then you're not applying for this job are you?
I highly doubt that Lynden can pay your required salary :)

[Peter McMurray]

I agree with TG It is very disappointing seeing the reactions of people who obviously think that they have painted themselves into a corner using Pick instead of accepting that it is a magnificent database when used with modern tools.

In my opinion the disappointment is due to the change of business style. It is no longer easy for the 2 or 3 person shop to do a great job and make a good living. Multi-national is the name of the game even if Trump doesn't get it.

Lynden is a very major transport company, with a vast range of applications - my oil distribution package fits into one very small corner of their offerings. They have a wide range of applications with Pick at the core. They are looking for someone who can slot into their overall plan and can undoubtedly afford an experienced person who has been in the game 15 to 20 years. The range of skills regarded as adding value, such as system design and management on top of programming clearly indicates a desire for such a person.

A quick Google search that any sensible applicant would do is most rewarding.

[Tony Gravagno]

Back up a minute... I didn't say a developer should decide technologies. Nor is anyone here fishing around for *any* thing. The OP said specific skills were helpful - I haven't seen a job ad that DID NOT have that addition. The specific choices might be because that IS what they have, because that IS related to tools they are getting, and/or because the right multi-skilled person is more likely to be able to work well in a diverse environment than someone who has just one skill.

I'm no unicorn. Diversity is the rule, not the exception. "Polygot" is an industry term for a reason. We've been doing it for a couple decades - or at least the non-MV world has. (Queue claim that BASIC + Proc is polyglot.) Related on the topic of Java and JavaScript, I also work with Nashorn where these languages are tightly integrated, far from being completely disparate. As an individual developer I've learned multiple languages as a matter of survival. As a professional I also consider that knowledge a part of a valued skillset. (This is the nature and definition of Nebula Research and Development - I research, and I develop.) As an individual I just think it's fun to learn as much as I can. I won't apologize for any of that and I think related insults are as silly as schoolyard namecalling.

We need to move beyond this kind of discussion as the only kind of discussion possible in this group. People in CDP in the mid 90's argued about getting an email address. The same people have argued the merits of GUI, then against developing for the web, then against web services, against mobile development, and now against diversification in general. Holy cow, learn from those decades of being wrong with every next step in technology. Move with the times. Sell what people want to buy now. ... Or just stop hassling those of us who do.

T
Reminds me why I stopped coming to these forums...I SO respect the people who aren't here. :)



 Will Johnson wrote:

hiring someone because you want *them* to decide for you which technology to go to, is not a wise course
And if the company already knows or has a particular technology, then advertise what you have

Don't go fishing around for anyone with *any* thing.  That's just too 1980s.

And Tony the unicorn, ...

[MAV]

Hi,

It does not seem like a crazy request. We ourselves use Java and .Net in the same project. .Net mostly and some modules in Java (electronic signature libraries provided by the government of Spain, for example). Angular or any other Javascript framework are almost essential in any current web development and very often are accompanied by a backend in .Net or Java. In addition, when you hire a developer you will most likely end up having to use any of those requirements in the same project. In Spain, almost all job offers are similar to this.

Marcos Alonso Vega

INGESCO Sistemas Informáticos

[Symeon Breen]

The current project I am leading is converting a monolithic Java MVC application to c# .net one with microservices, react front end etc. So the requirement for devs on this project was to have both .net and Java.

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[Kevin King]

As part of our discovery/interview/hiring process we have applicants fill out a technology self-assessment to evaluate their skills in a variety of technologies, frameworks, and tools.  That list has 55 items on it presently.  While we don't use all of them daily, in any given month we might use 80% of them.  I'm not looking for someone who knows all of it, but it can definitely help expedite the hiring process to know where a person sees their skills and abilities through the lens of what we do.

--

-K

[Will Johnson]

Oh no I agree completely.

It's super when you hire a C# expert and then 80% of their day is writing Crystal Reports.
They just love that!

It's the same problem when a Pick programming job states that you need to be an expert in Excel, and then the job entails almost no Excel whatsoever.

It's just bad HR to throw out a dozen technologies on a request when the actual job is focused mostly in one area