XLr8Tools 4.7.14 fixes D3 Flash Compile hang

[Doug Averch]

Our XLr8Editor has been working for D3 for a few years now.

We fixed a problem with Eclipse IDE hanging only on Flash compiles.

See http://u2logic.com/tools_editor.html for more information

Regards,

U2logic Team

[Tony Gravagno]

Doug, I don't think you intended to post click-bait. What's the code and what's the error? Which D3 platform/release(s)?

[Doug Averch]

Tony, you don't even use our software. Why do you care? You are still using a toolset from 1980's!

The explanation was that we fixed our XLr8Editor code from hanging on Flash compiles all other compiles worked.

The D3 release must only support mvsp and I don't know what releases that would encompass.

Regards,

Doug

www.u2logic.com

"The only Eclipse IDE editor for D3"

[Rick Weiser]

I don't use it either.  So, this is a product release and as such should contain "[AD]" in the subject so that peeps that "Don't care about your product" can filter out this content.

[Peter Schellenbach]

Hi Mark –

 

The pattern you are asking about is how all the sample GUI programs are written. Better to check for errors than to try to figure out what went wrong when thing don't work and no error checking. You can't imagine the calls I get about something that does not work, and the programmer was not checking for errors, which would have shown the problem before he needed to call. Usually its just stupid stuff like a typo in an ID or something.

 

Thanks,

 

Pete

 

Happy Thanksgiving!

 

Peter Schellenbach Director of Product Development 818-951-1891  |  866‑ZUMASYS pet...@zumasys.com  |  www.zumasys.com 9245 Research Drive ,  Irvine ,  92618

 From: mvd...@googlegroups.com [mailto:mvd...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Rick Weiser
Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2017 8:08 AM
To: Pick and MultiValue Databases <mvd...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [mvdbms] Re: XLr8Tools 4.7.14 fixes D3 Flash Compile hang

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[Tony Gravagno]

Doug, I mis-understood your post. It sounded like you were announcing something like "hey, D3 Flash Compiles weren't working but we modified our product to get around it". So I was interested in what that problem is, not your ad.

As to my toolset, you are correct, I use light-weight tools for BASIC, including AccuTerm with its free wED component, or NotePad++ FOSS with some customizations. I did spend time with an earlier version of your fine product (and had multiple exchanges with your team) and ultimately decided it wasn't for me. But please don't criticize my toolkit as I don't disparage yours.

Regards,
T

[Doug Averch]

There are hundreds if not thousands of D3 programmers that using light-weight tools that are more along the lines of glorified line editors. No version control, no history, no continuous compile like Java, no refactoring, no right click compiling, no online help, no unlimited history, no Control-space to see it fill in the variable names, no continuous save, and automatic difference editor when your local code does not match the database version.

If you are using tools from 1980's or 1990's, then you wonder why the "C" suite looks down on us.

Those of you that think VIM, Notepad++, AccuTerm editor and such are good enough, then you should retire already.

Stopping using was was good enough then, move up to an enterprise-grade tool.

Regards,

Doug

[ad] https://u2logic.com/tools_editor.html [/ad]

[Glen Batchelor]

Doug, that's like telling a master carpenter to toss all of his hand chisels and planes for your CNC lathe because "it's new, better and faster". What a crock! LOL

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[Steve Trimble]

well said Glen

Steve Trimble

Computerized Data Mgmt Inc

(501) 615-8674 office

(501) 772-3450 cell / text

[Charlie Noah]

Doug, it looks like this is turning into a pissing contest. It seems that your attitude (I've seen it in many of your posts) is that anyone who doesn't use your tools is an idiot. That kind of arrogance just doesn't fly with me, no matter how good your tools may be. I've known Tony many years and I would trust his work and his tools any day. I also trust his work ethic.

BTW, I'm retired, don't report to anyone I have to impress, and don't have to care whether I offend you or not.

Charlie Noah

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[Wols Lists]

On 27/11/17 23:36, Doug Averch wrote:
> There are hundreds if not thousands of D3 programmers that using
> light-weight tools that are more along the lines of glorified line
> editors. No version control, no history, no continuous compile like
> Java, no refactoring, no right click compiling, no online help, no
> unlimited history, no Control-space to see it fill in the variable
> names, no continuous save, and automatic difference editor when your
> local code does not match the database version.
>
> If you are using tools from 1980's or 1990's, then you wonder why the
> "C" suite looks down on us.
> Those of you that think VIM, Notepad++, AccuTerm editor and such are
> good enough, then you should retire already.
>
> Stopping using was was good enough then, move up to an enterprise-grade
> tool.

Or do it right and go back to coding sheets and pen and paper!

I'm serious!

All these tools are for the run-of-the-mill programmer to take the
average guy and increase their productivity.

In my first job my boss, when he started at that company, spent the
first six months without a computer, and when a secretary typed in his
code, it compiled and ran, as far as we can tell, BUG FREE.

Okay, today's environment is a lot more complex, and it's hard to write
bug-free code on top of a bug-ridden environment, but the fact remains
that writing code SLOWLY and CAREFULLY beats bashing out code fast in an
environment designed to encourage Monte Carlo testing and not a logical
thought out design.

Call me a dinosaur if you like, but it's still true that time spent
planning AWAY from the computer pays off many times over!

Cheers,
Wol

[Charlie Noah]

Wol, I agree 100% with everything you said. I've always felt that properly thought-out and designed code will practically write itself. Most programmers don't spend nearly enough time testing as and after the code is written, and rarely spend time writing a testing plan.

Charlie

[Glen Batchelor]

  Testing is only as successful as the person writing the test cases is experienced in all of the business processes. In most cases, there is insufficient knowledge of the business, at the department level, to properly develop them. The business staff is too busy running the business to sit down and work with the development team to create global testing scenarios and assume(expect) that the developers will just know what should work and not work and test it themselves. So many development projects hang around pending a proper business case or post-development testing by the SMEs. Eventually untested projects will get pushed live due to peripheral business demands, even after explaining that no business testing has been performed by the SMEs assuming that development tested it enough to use it. Even with a proper development, testing and code promotion process some bugs get put into the business code. It's unavoidable and why so many mediocre programmers still have upper positions frankly and are seen as performing at-par. 

Glen

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[Doug Averch]

Nowhere did I say any of those things you accuse me of.

As a former editor at Spectrum, you should read this text again without emotion.

There are a couple of enterprise toolsets beside U2logic's hence the words:

"Stopping using was was good enough then, move up to an enterprise-grade tool."

[Kevin Powick]

On Tuesday, 28 November 2017 11:54:03 UTC-5, Wol wrote:

 

Or do it right and go back to coding sheets and pen and paper!

I'm serious!

A great article on how NASA does it.

https://www.fastcompany.com/28121/they-write-right-stuff

--

Kevin Powick 

[Don Robinson]

Kevin,

The "They write right stuff" article is a good story.

I remember a story back in the '60s that IBM 360 software had about a thousand "known" bugs and every time they fixed one it was likely to create more.

I also remember one of the early rockets exploding a few feet off the ground due to a missing period on the end of a line of COBOL code!

Makes me wonder which process is being used for writing the software for self driving cars?

NASA or Microsoft?

Don Robinson

[Rick Weiser]

Doug,

This sentence is not what I took offense to.  It's this one "such are good enough, then you should retire already."  Really?!?!

This is just wrong and it causes conflict.  This is not what this list is about.  Please refrain from this.

Rick

[Charlie Noah]

Doug,

I would debate your statements with you, but I'm reminded of a quote by Mark Twain:
"Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
and
Proverbs 26:4 King James Version (my favorite version)
"Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him."

'Nuff said.
Charlie

[Doug Averch]

This "fool", however, is guaranteed more productive coding in UniBasic using our Enterprise tool than most foolish coders!

Regards,

Doug

www.u2logic.com

[George Gallen]

Doug,

from a totally outside perspective. Given the last series of your emails, I would never consider even checking your toolsets out

not because of whether I'd be more productive, or whether they are the best thing since sliced bread, but simply

because i could just image what kind of responses I'd get if I needed support.

Currently, our UV version is too old to support your product, which we are looking to upgrade next year.

As it was on my radar to look into once we upgraded, I highly doubt that will occur.

Let's just hope someone hacked your account and is sending emails out under your name.....it's really not a good

business practice to insult (and yes, I read it as insulting) your potential customers.

George

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From: mvd...@googlegroups.com <mvd...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Doug Averch <dav...@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2017 1:37 PM

To: Pick and MultiValue Databases

Subject: Re: [mvdbms] Re: XLr8Tools 4.7.14 fixes D3 Flash Compile hang

 

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[Peter McMurray]

Wow! what a thread.

Modern tools do not assure good code. 

Only this month within two hours on the road an unmanned airport transfer shuttle got hit by a reversing truck that could not see the small vehicle directly behind . The clown who programmed the unmanned bus obviously assumed the manned vehicle would take evasive action so it just sat there!

Some years back a Mars mission slammed into oblivion because one company used metric and the other used imperial calculations for the descent.

Back when I started I wrote pretty near error free code in Assembler. Why? because a compile took 3 plus hours during which time I could not use the machine. How? I flowcharted every instruction using a mini pocket flow chart tool and a large sheet of NCR pre-printed paper.

When I took up Pick. My Partner and I sat down and designed the user interface and the file system interface. We then wrote programs to incorporate these rules to add user routines to the screen design forms. He then had a stroke of genius and we wrote the generating system in itself.

Forty years and many versions of Pick later the only errors are in the logic of the user routines 90% of the code is spot on and the user interface is always spot on.

An ounce of preparation is worth a pound of cure.

[Tony Gravagno]

Colleagues, it looks like this thread really took a turn for the worse.

Over the years I've done some bantering with Doug. I think he and I and a few others here share the awkward distinction of having a public persona that's very different from our live presence. That has cost me some opportunities, and, while with some regrets, I cheerfully write it off as an acceptable consequence of my "shtick" and passion.

I suggest that while occasionally rough around the public edges, Doug is a good businessman and conscientious about producing a good product, like most people in this industry. If you have interest in a product like XLR8, I don't think this public banter should influence your business decisions. I have tried his product, had many exchanges with his Support/developer team, and all of those experiences were positive.

As to the side-line here about the value of some of the features advertised, as a regular developer with C#, Java, and PHP, I value tools like continuous compile, auto-complete, source control integration, and others. Without these we have to do a lot manually. That includes debugging code which sometimes doesn't quickly reveal its problems, and reverting back to code that didn't have problems.I WISH we had more tools with mainstream sophistication - it would be one less reason for people to migrate away from MV when they see a developer fumbling with ED.

Again, I personally am not using XLR8, but everyone's needs are different. We shouldn't criticize a product that addresses needs of an audience that Does value what it provides. Many of us have published products that are of no use to some of our colleagues, but are integral in the success of others.

Let's be kind and positive here, or maybe just not crap on threads about someone's product.

Having said that of course, the occasional fight is still fun, especially when it makes people think we're a bunch of ranting lunatics... which is the impression that we've perpetuated here over time... ;)

T

[Glen Batchelor]

Meh. I'll continue using Notepad++ on a daily basis and frankly I'm not surprised that these vendor/client conflicts continue happening in the MV world. It's tough when you still have to eat other's lunches after decades of no real platform advancements.

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[Bruce Holt]

*grins* @Tony

Well stated.

Respectfully yours,

______________________________________
Bruce A Holt

MCP, MCSA, MCSE, Network+

Rocket Software Certified UniVerse DBA

Software Engineer

Rocket Software

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[Peter McMurray]

H

I see TG recommends having a look despite the disgraceful comments by the U2 Logic Team who 40 years down the track seem to think they have the edge on vastly more experienced developers.

Problem 1 It appears that one will require an approximately $1000 per annum set of subscriptions with every client. There does not appear to be a readily transportable set for a developer.

Problem 2 It does not address anything that we did not solve 40 years ago.

Standard User interface from standard form design usable by a sensible user. We wrote and sold our first set of that to a major user in 1978, Their accountant used his secretary to produce his system in three months.

Standard distribution of all elements from programs and dictionaries to data. Ditto

Code Highlighting readily available in many easy multi platform products.

Problem 3 Like the wretched D3 Update when it was released it is unlikely to work in older sites or on other MV systems

Major problem, insult possible clients before they have even seen it. A classic attitude from the Unix we hate Microsoft brigade.

No I will not be retiring because the U2Logic mob finally caught up with my standard methods.

[John Stokka]

If I might hijack this thread for something productive...

I downloaded XLr8 and followed the install procedures and can't seem to get it to talk to OPENQM.  Is there a server side component that needs to be installed?  Any help would be appreciated.  Thanks.

I configured the server for both ports 4242 and 4243 thinking it might use the client socket for communications but that didn't seem to make any difference.

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[Peter McMurray]

Hi John

I went to https://www.u2logic.com/pdfs/XLr8Installation.pdf when I looked and I believe that you have to add some Java and Eclipse products. 

[John R. Stokka]

Yes I installed the Java RE and Eclipse and I'm way past that.  Hmmmmm... Thanks. :)

[Doug Averch]

John, you will have to send to U2logic your installation id first at our support email thanks.

[John Stokka]

I didn't even know I had one. :)  I just downloaded the trial version.

It took a while to find it... U2logic product preferences

Install ID D76425AE1D8BE51C354FC09AC62DFDD1

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