Does TB check for mail?
William B. Lurie
Does it check for mail before I dbl click the TB icon?
And later, after I File>>Exit TB, does it check
periodically? (2.0.0.23)
If yes to either of the above, where can I control it, i.e.,
have it check for mail only when I ask it to?
Bill Braun
For the first, go to Account Settings > View Settings for
This Account, Server Settings, CHECK "Check for new messages
at startup" abd it will check before you click Get Mail.
When TB is not loaded it does not check for mail. It would
have no place to download it if TB is closed. When the app
is not running, nothing about the app is running.
Bill B
William B. Lurie
Bill L.
William B. Lurie
But what I'd like (if feasible) is for TB to
1. Start when I dbl-click its desktop icon.
2. Open in the Inbox window, but
3. *Not* get mail until I click the 'Get Mail' icon....
Can that be arranged?
Bill Braun
> But what I'd like (if feasible) is for TB to
> 1. Start when I dbl-click its desktop icon.
> 2. Open in the Inbox window, but
> 3. *Not* get mail until I click the 'Get Mail' icon....
> Can that be arranged?
Then UNCHECK the checkbox for Check mail on startup. That
will disable the auto download. Keep in mind however if you
have set a time for periodic downloads, then, despite having
disabled auto download at start, TB will automatically
download messages at the interval you have declared.
To make downloading messages completely manual,
Account Settings > Server Settings > UNCHECK "Check for new
message at startup" and UNCHECK "Check for new messages
every [ ] minutes", and UNCHECK "Automatically download
new messages".
Bill B
William B. Lurie
when I just looked. Now if I could get it to start with
the Inbox window as the startup window rather than
the account name, the way it used to be, I'll be even
happier.
Mike Easter
> Now if I could get it to start with
> the Inbox window as the startup window rather than
> the account name, the way it used to be, I'll be even
> happier.
Make it a point to go to the inbox (and maybe check your mail) just
before you close Tbird. "I'm going to leave tb now, I'll just check and
see if I've gotten any mail before I go."
Then when you open tb3, it will open where it was when you left. Tb3
likes to do a lot of your thinking for you, rather it likes to guess
what is best for you.
--
Mike Easter
Bill Braun
> Then when you open tb3, it will open where it was when you left. Tb3
> likes to do a lot of your thinking for you, rather it likes to guess
> what is best for you.
That may or may not be a valid general characterization of
TB, but not in this case. I run many apps that open with the
file they were closed with. That's not unusual.
What those apps often have is a preference for opening with
the last file or opening blank. That would be useful.
Perhaps that's your point all along.
Bill B
Bill Braun
> Then when you open tb3, it will open where it was when you left. Tb3
> likes to do a lot of your thinking for you, rather it likes to guess
> what is best for you.
That may or may not be a valid general characterization of
Mike Easter
My first annoyance with Tb3 was when it went about deciding how to
populate a new account's mailservers based on an email address I had
provided which had nothing to do with the mail servers I was planning on
using.
I wanted to configure my EarthLink account with a gmail From. Before I
was familiar with what Tb3 was going to do, it made a complete 'mess' of
the account settings all by itself.
That's an example of Tb3 guessing what you want to do and trying to do
your thinking for you.
--
Mike Easter
Bill Braun
> That's an example of Tb3 guessing what you want to do and trying to do
> your thinking for you.
There is a value (for me) in having an installation routine
go through a decision tree, but, as you say, I rail a bit at
it actually making the decisions.
On the other hand, I've been making a point (in another
thread) about ease of use as a requisite for wide-scale
adoption. While some think it missed the mark, I would not
be surprised to know that the developers thought they were
doing just that.
Bill B
William B. Lurie
what it was in TB3 that irked me.
Jay Garcia
--- Original Message ---
> Bill Braun wrote:
>> Mike Easter wrote:
>>> Then when you open tb3, it will open where it was when you left. Tb3
>>> likes to do a lot of your thinking for you, rather it likes to guess
>>> what is best for you.
>>
>> That may or may not be a valid general characterization of TB, but not
>> in this case. I run many apps that open with the file they were closed
>> with. That's not unusual.
>>
>> What those apps often have is a preference for opening with the last
>> file or opening blank. That would be useful.
>>
>> Perhaps that's your point all along.
>
> My first annoyance with Tb3 was when it went about deciding how to
> populate a new account's mailservers based on an email address I had
> provided which had nothing to do with the mail servers I was planning on
> using.
Yes, it is an annoyance for anyone that is a "power-user" but there IS a
manual settings button that bypasses the auto-setup allowing you to roll
your own. But for the vast majority of users that haven't a clue, it's a
nice feature.
> I wanted to configure my EarthLink account with a gmail From. Before I
> was familiar with what Tb3 was going to do, it made a complete 'mess' of
> the account settings all by itself.
>
> That's an example of Tb3 guessing what you want to do and trying to do
> your thinking for you.
For the 1,000's and 1,000's of clueless average users it's a valid function.
--
Jay Garcia - Netscape/Flock Champion
www.ufaq.org
Netscape - Flock - Firefox - Thunderbird - Seamonkey Support
Mike Easter
> Mike Easter wrote:
>> My first annoyance with Tb3 was when it went about deciding how to
>> populate a new account's mailservers based on an email address I had
>> provided which had nothing to do with the mail servers I was planning on
>> using.
>
> Yes, it is an annoyance for anyone that is a "power-user" but there IS a
> manual settings button that bypasses the auto-setup allowing you to roll
> your own.
Try this on your Tb3. Start to create a new account. You choose mail
or news. Then you are provided with a mail account setup wizard which
requests your name, eml addy, and pass. You are not provided with a
'manual' option.
Once you give it an email address, it 'goes into operation' and queries
the server according to the domainname you provided in the email address
and populates the server fields including what kind of account imap or
pop. Only then are you provided with an option to do anything manually.
The manual option should be available from the first account setup
window, not after the server settings are already populated.
--
Mike Easter
Bill Braun
> For the 1,000's and 1,000's of clueless average users it's a valid function.
This language is troubling for me. What chance does TB have
of wide adoption if the very customers it hopes to serve are
regarded as clueless and held in contempt?
I am hard pressed to think of many markets (mass markets I
suppose I should say) where the average user is, for the
most part, savvy in knowledge and skill. How big would you
guess the market is for software that requires the user to
pass a technical assessment before they are allowed to install?
This is a self defeating attitude. (Nothing meant
personally; I not making this a personal argument.)
I genuinely like my customers. There are days I wish they
were a little more savvy. But I do my best to meet them
where they are and bring them forward. How many customers do
you think I'd have if I demanded a solid accounting of
systems theory and computer simulation modeling before I
went out to talk with them. Part of my job is to take
complex concepts and make then accessible to a lot of people.
I argue that is the path down which TB ought to be traveling.
Bill B
William B. Lurie
But, back to TB2, and how do I get TB2 to open
up with the mailbox folders in a pane to the
left (it does that) , and Inbox, at to, highlighted,
and in the right pane, the subject list etcetera for Inbox?
Larry Sheldon
> Jay Garcia wrote:
>> For the 1,000's and 1,000's of clueless average users it's a valid function.
>
> This language is troubling for me. What chance does TB have
> of wide adoption if the very customers it hopes to serve are
> regarded as clueless and held in contempt?
BINGO!
The Dilbert Syndrome.
> I am hard pressed to think of many markets (mass markets I
> suppose I should say) where the average user is, for the
> most part, savvy in knowledge and skill. How big would you
> guess the market is for software that requires the user to
> pass a technical assessment before they are allowed to install?
I think people are a lot more savvy than even they think.
It may not be guaranteed, but it is the way to bet.
And there is nothing wrong with providing a default set that will work
for lots of people, by there has to be plaintext overrides available for
people that understand their situation better that the mystery developer.
> I genuinely like my customers. There are days I wish they
> were a little more savvy. But I do my best to meet them
> where they are and bring them forward. How many customers do
> you think I'd have if I demanded a solid accounting of
> systems theory and computer simulation modeling before I
> went out to talk with them. Part of my job is to take
> complex concepts and make then accessible to a lot of people.
If I have a different opinion, it has to do with this:
There is a Grand Canyon of difference between "requires big savvy" and
"requires Tarot-reading and other arcana to determine what the developer
wants you to do to get your work done".
I think most people have a pretty clear notion about what they want to
do--it is the developer's responsibility to communicate USING THE
CUSTOMER'S mode of communication.
And on that, I'll say that if Mozzilla stays with the "we don't sell, so
we don't have customers" mantra, they are doomed join other people with
good ideas that shot them selves in the foot.
--
Democracy: Three wolves and a sheep voting on the dinner menu.
(A republic, using parliamentary law, protects the minority.)
Requiescas in pace o email
Ex turpi causa non oritur actio
Eppure si rinfresca
ICBM Targeting Information: http://tinyurl.com/4sqczs
http://tinyurl.com/7tp8ml
Mike Easter
> I think most people have a pretty clear notion about what they want to
> do--it is the developer's responsibility to communicate USING THE
> CUSTOMER'S mode of communication.
>
> And on that, I'll say that if Mozzilla stays with the "we don't sell, so
> we don't have customers" mantra, they are doomed join other people with
> good ideas that shot them selves in the foot.
I saw a lady on a forum recently complaining because Tbird didn't have a
customer service 800 telno for her to call up and get some advice about
a problem.
This business about the freeware user is king can get a little overboard.
And it is Mozilla, one Z, from 'Mosaic killer, like Godzilla'
--
Mike Easter
Beauregard T. Shagnasty
> But, back to TB2, and how do I get TB2 to open
> up with the mailbox folders in a pane to the
> left (it does that) , and Inbox, at to, highlighted,
> and in the right pane, the subject list etcetera for Inbox?
We're going through an awful lot of effort here to eliminate one
mouse-click or one press of the downarrow key ... ;-)
--
-bts
-Where does all the time go?
William B. Lurie
I did something and now I get the basic account selection
in the right pane instead, and what I'm asking is, how do I
get it back?
Mike Easter
> But, back to TB2, and how do I get TB2 to open
> up with the mailbox folders in a pane to the
> left (it does that) ,
My tb2 (always) opens in the inbox (configured to get no mail on startup).
> and Inbox, at to, highlighted,
> and in the right pane, the subject list etcetera for Inbox?
I don't understand what everything after 'Inbox,' is saying.
What is 'at to' in this context?
What is 'highlighted' in this context?
When opening in the startup inbox (titlebar Inbox - Thunderbird), my
layout configuration shows all folders in the left pane, message headers
in the right upper pane and the right lower pane would show a preview,
but it is configured to show the Start Page in the message area.
--
Mike Easter
Larry Sheldon
> Larry Sheldon wrote:
>
>> I think most people have a pretty clear notion about what they want to
>> do--it is the developer's responsibility to communicate USING THE
>> CUSTOMER'S mode of communication.
>>
>> And on that, I'll say that if Mozzilla stays with the "we don't sell, so
>> we don't have customers" mantra, they are doomed join other people with
>> good ideas that shot them selves in the foot.
>
> I saw a lady on a forum recently complaining because Tbird didn't have a
> customer service 800 telno for her to call up and get some advice about
> a problem.
>
> This business about the freeware user is king can get a little overboard.
Requires some thoughtful reflection on what it is you are doing. If the
only objective is to blat out code then design all of your fora,
interfaces, configuration wizards in a way that discourages or denies
access by the unwashed.
If you want to displace a competitor or attract people that have other
choices (particularly choices that have powerful marketing presence in
their worlds), you might want to think about how you do that. And how
you regard your customers.
Yeah, the issue of excess expectations is a problem. A little polite
one-on-one counseling might work. Or offer a premium version with a 900
telephone number.
> And it is Mozilla, one Z, from 'Mosaic killer, like Godzilla'
I'm so glad you found something I can't argue with.
Mea culpa. Mea maxima culpa.
That is a very important goal here, isn't it?
I must have been thinking about pizza for lunch.
Mike Easter
> I must have been thinking about pizza for lunch.
>
--
Mike Easter
WLS
Click on View in the menu bar, Then Folders > All.
Also View > Layout > Classic View should be selected.
If that doesn't help, well, sorry. :)
William B. Lurie
WLS, I have checked and I *do* have
View>>Folders>>All
and
View>>Layout>>Classic View
and when I start TB, the Left Pane has, vertically,
Inbox and Sent and the rest of my folders.
And the Right Pane has the Thunderbird Mail and Account Name
(me @ my ISP)
And below that E-mail and below that Accounts etcetera.
and below that Advanced Features.
At that point, instead, I want the *mail* in the Inbox
to be showing.
You told me what to set, and that's what I have.
There's one item missing, but what is it?
Bill Braun
> At that point, instead, I want the *mail* in the Inbox
> to be showing.
>
> You told me what to set, and that's what I have.
> There's one item missing, but what is it?
By that do you mean seeing the number of unread messages
which appear in bold? Or the ability to see the content of
the mail without actually opening the message into a
separate window?
Bill B
William B. Lurie
the content of the Inbox (either All or Unread, either
one), its column headers (Subject, Sender, Date)
and the columns filled in with their indicated content.
I just checked my clone system from a week ago, and
that's the way it is. I'm almost ready to save my current
mailbox info and copy the old profile in from the clone, and
then update the mailbox content. And, yes, the settings you
recommend are the same there.
Under Tools>>Options>> there is a "When TB launches, show the Start
Page in the Message area". I think that's what is not happening.
Jay Garcia
--- Original Message ---
TB 3.0.3
Account Settings => Account Actions (drop down list) => Add Mail Account
=> Add name, email address, password => Continue => Click on "stop"
button => Manual Setup button ungrays => Proceed with manual setup.
Jay Garcia
--- Original Message ---
TB or any mass-used application should be geared to the non-power-user
and be as automatic as possible. There should, and is in TB, a method by
which the power-user can bypass the auto-setup routine quite easily
because it is THAT user that knows what the protocols are and how to
enter them correctly, etc. "Clueless" in this venue doesn't relate to
being "stupid".
Jay Garcia
--- Original Message ---
> Under Tools>>Options>> there is a "When TB launches, show the Start
> Page in the Message area". I think that's what is not happening.
No, that has nothing to do with showing the contents of your INBOX, so
don't enable that.
Do what WLS said and in addition do VIEW => Messages => All
Bill Braun
> TB 3.0.3
>
> Account Settings => Account Actions (drop down list) => Add Mail Account
> => Add name, email address, password => Continue => Click on "stop"
> button => Manual Setup button ungrays => Proceed with manual setup.
Thanks, that little tid-bit is worth its weight in gold.
Bill B
Bill Braun
> TB or any mass-used application should be geared to the non-power-user
> and be as automatic as possible. There should, and is in TB, a method by
> which the power-user can bypass the auto-setup routine quite easily
> because it is THAT user that knows what the protocols are and how to
> enter them correctly, etc. "Clueless" in this venue doesn't relate to
> being "stupid".
Noted, thanks.
Bill B
William B. Lurie
two systems, copying a whole profile back in.
But I copied and pasted a TB2 profile off an older backup
clone (that worked 'right'), onto my recent clone which has
the same difficulty as my Master.
Now I have my recent backup clone working what I call correctly.
And I copied my mail folder in from the Master. So I am now
operating on my recent clone, with up-to-date mail, and with TB
working correctly.
I would really like to know what the difference is, between the Master
and the repaired clone......but I don't know how to find out. Everyplace
I look, on the two systems, I see the same things, and I'm waiting for
somebody to point out the 'missing link'.
William B. Lurie
> On 16.03.2010 14:58, William B. Lurie wrote:
>
> --- Original Message ---
>
>> Under Tools>>Options>> there is a "When TB launches, show the Start
>> Page in the Message area". I think that's what is not happening.
>
> No, that has nothing to do with showing the contents of your INBOX, so
> don't enable that.
>
> Do what WLS said and in addition do VIEW => Messages => All
>
View=> Messages => All, you say?
I don't see that sequence under View .....
I want to launch TB2, and have it open with the
list of folders in the left pane, and the 'All' or even the
'Unread' list of Inbox messages ready to be clicked on
in the right pane.
William B. Lurie
I *do* see it or don't, depending on where I look.
I'll go back to my main system and see if I can correct
it there. On this 're[aired' clone, it's working right.
William B. Lurie
> On 16.03.2010 14:58, William B. Lurie wrote:
>
> --- Original Message ---
>
>> Under Tools>>Options>> there is a "When TB launches, show the Start
>> Page in the Message area". I think that's what is not happening.
>
> No, that has nothing to do with showing the contents of your INBOX, so
> don't enable that.
>
> Do what WLS said and in addition do VIEW => Messages => All
>
The overall issue is solved, Jay, in that by copying a good
profile back onto the Master System, whatever needed fixing
came back with it.
I just hate to drop it with a question unanswered. I say
that especially because of high regard for your wise help
in the past.
But to recap, I did what WLS said.
I did what you said above.
And on the 'bad' system and on the 'good' system,
every one of those locations read as I was instructed.
They *looked* identical, but one did not open the right
pane. My conclusion is that there's another control,
but I leave it to you to decide whether there is or not.
Right now, as Frank Sinatra would have said,
"I fixed it *myyyyyyyy" way."
Chris Ilias
> And on that, I'll say that if Mozzilla stays with the "we don't sell, so
> we don't have customers" mantra, they are doomed join other people with
> good ideas that shot them selves in the foot.
Mozilla doesn't have that mantra to begin with, so don't worry. :-)
--
Chris Ilias <http://ilias.ca>
List-owner: support-firefox, support-thunderbird, test-multimedia
Keeper of the Knowledge Base: <https://support.mozilla.com/kb/>
Randy & Grace
> When I start up, TB loads.
> Does it check for mail before I dbl click the TB icon?
> And later, after I File>>Exit TB, does it check
> periodically? (2.0.0.23)
> If yes to either of the above, where can I control it, i.e.,
> have it check for mail only when I ask it to?
I'm having the opposite problem. Before, when I set TB to check mail
on startup, it did. Now it doesn't check until I manually tell it
to. Thereafter, it checks every 10 minutes as it's supposed to, but
it won't check on startup, even though I set every e-mail account to
do so.
Bill Braun
Go to Tools > Account Settings. Under the email address (or
addresses) click on Server Settings.
UNCHECK all of these
- Check for new messages at startup
- Check for new messages every [ ] minutes
- Automatically download new messages
Close TB.
Reload TB, CHECK the ones you want.
- Check for new messages at startup (what it says, no manual
action required for TB to check for messages)
- Check for new messages every [ ] minutes (what it says;
this will happen even if Check for new messages at startup
is unchecked)
- Automatically download new messages (what it says; if
unchecked new messages are not downloaded; you have to use
the "Get Mail" button to retrieve mail)
Close TB.
Reload TB, should be working as desired. (Wait for the
number of minutes you entered in "Check for new messages
every [ ] minutes" before concluding it is or is not
working as desired.)
Bill B
Larry Sheldon
> On 10-03-16 12:06 PM, Larry Sheldon wrote:
>> And on that, I'll say that if Mozzilla stays with the "we don't sell, so
>> we don't have customers" mantra, they are doomed join other people with
>> good ideas that shot them selves in the foot.
>
> Mozilla doesn't have that mantra to begin with, so don't worry. :-)
I'm not worried. (I am angry, but as has been said here over and over,
Mozilla doesn't sell, so it does not have customers, so who cares?)
Mike Easter
User-Agent: G2/1.0
I do not believe that Randy and Grace are conjoined twins who are
inseparable and who are reading and posting to this newsgroup as one
entity, voices in unison.
I think that Randy and Grace can have an email account together and/but
that they also can and *should* (also) have separate accounts for
certain purposes so that when they are doing something as an individual
person, such as reading and posting to this newsgroup, that the news
persona represents the appropriate person, a single individual of only
one gender.
Randy & Grace didn't write (together as one), as it says above.
The advantage of (also) having a dual/joint mail account is similar to
having a joint bank account. But there are going to be times, such as
getting a soft drink from a vending machine, when only one person places
money into the machine and gets the drink and drinks it 'alone' not as a
couple.
Any newsgroup persona can have any kind of handle it wants, which handle
doesn't have to be gender specific. But that concept and freedom is
different from calling oneself two people with two genders or even
calling oneself two people with the same gender.
Sometimes we refer to a poster re their message in the 3rd person
singular, he said, she said. For Randy & Grace, one would have to say,
they said or perhaps it said. The dual structure of the persona creates
an unnecessary ambiguity. It is nice when couples do things together,
but sometimes they are going to do some things separately, as one not two.
--
Mike Easter
Chris Ilias
> On 3/16/2010 23:29, Chris Ilias wrote:
>> On 10-03-16 12:06 PM, Larry Sheldon wrote:
>>> And on that, I'll say that if Mozzilla stays with the "we don't sell, so
>>> we don't have customers" mantra, they are doomed join other people with
>>> good ideas that shot them selves in the foot.
>>
>> Mozilla doesn't have that mantra to begin with, so don't worry. :-)
>
> I'm not worried. (I am angry, but as has been said here over and over,
> Mozilla doesn't sell, so it does not have customers, so who cares?)
Whoever told you that is wrong, and they don't speak for Mozilla.
Peter C
Wouldn't it be better if it went:
Account Settings => Account Actions (drop down list) => Add Mail
Account => Add name, email address, password => Continue => Popup
asking if user wishes to add manually (for advanced users) or with
automated function where TB will create settings based on your email
address...
This is the protocol followed by most of the SW I install.
Peter
Jay Garcia
--- Original Message ---
File a RFE bug on it, sounds good to me.
Randy & Grace
Thanks for the help. Is this some kind of bug?
Bill Braun
> Thanks for the help. Is this some kind of bug?
I don't see it as such. The three parameters provide a high
degree of customization. For me, it works consistently and
reliably.
Bill B