Re: Thunderbird and Yenc and or Multi-part messages

[WaltS48]

On 08/25/2014 06:46 PM, Charles Lindbergh wrote:
> It appears to me that Thunderbird cannot decode Yenc or multipart messages, at
> least not automatically. Am I incorrect? If I am wrong, I would appreciate
> some guidance.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>


You are correct sir! Probably never will.

[119964 – (yEnc) Support yEnc encoding (including
multipart)](https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=119964)

I use the Pan newsreader for those messages.

--
Sponsored by Firefox 32.0bx and Thunderbird 31.0

[WaltS48]

On 08/25/2014 06:46 PM, Charles Lindbergh wrote:
> It appears to me that Thunderbird cannot decode Yenc or multipart messages, at
> least not automatically. Am I incorrect? If I am wrong, I would appreciate
> some guidance.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>

Oh, and forget .nzb support. [339983 – Add .nzb support for binary files
on USENET](https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=339983)

[Vic Moz Garcia]

On 08/25/14 19:30, Charles Lindbergh wrote:

> On Mon, 25 Aug 2014 19:11:18 -0400, WaltS48 <thali...@EVOMERaim.com> wrote:
>
>> On 08/25/2014 06:46 PM, Charles Lindbergh wrote:
>>> It appears to me that Thunderbird cannot decode Yenc or multipart messages, at
>>> least not automatically. Am I incorrect? If I am wrong, I would appreciate
>>> some guidance.
>>>
>>> Thanks in advance.
>>>
>>
>>
>> Oh, and forget .nzb support. [339983 – Add .nzb support for binary files
>> on USENET](https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=339983)
>

> Thanks, I was trying to help someone posting some pictures of aircraft who was
> confronted by a Thunderbird user who could not view them. Turns out the other
> contributors in the group post with either UUENCODE or MIME encoding.
>
> Turns out it is difficult to find a volume posting program capable of posting
> uuencode or mime.

TB, has never been a binary news reader, probably never will.

People will NEVER EVER RTFM.....

[Ed Mullen]

Charles Lindbergh pounded out :

> It appears to me that Thunderbird cannot decode Yenc or multipart messages, at
> least not automatically. Am I incorrect? If I am wrong, I would appreciate
> some guidance.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>

Does this help?

<http://edmullen.net/mozilla/moz_combine.php>

--
Ed Mullen
http://edmullen.net/
You never really learn to swear until you learn to drive.

[Vic Moz Garcia]

On 08/25/14 21:52, Ed Mullen wrote:
> Charles Lindbergh pounded out :
>> It appears to me that Thunderbird cannot decode Yenc or multipart messages, at
>> least not automatically. Am I incorrect? If I am wrong, I would appreciate
>> some guidance.
>>
>> Thanks in advance.
>>
>
> Does this help?
>
> <http://edmullen.net/mozilla/moz_combine.php>

Not at all, why do it the super hard way, when there are 100's of
binary readers that will do it automatically ?????

ALWAYS use the right tool for the current job.

[Ed Mullen]

Vic Moz Garcia pounded out :

And do you have an explanation that would enable the OP to achive a
resolution?

--
Ed Mullen
http://edmullen.net/

Why do croutons come in airtight packages? It's just stale bread to
begin with.

[Trane Francks]

On 8/26/14 11:18 AM, Ed Mullen wrote:
> Vic Moz Garcia pounded out :
>> On 08/25/14 21:52, Ed Mullen wrote:
>>> Charles Lindbergh pounded out :
>>>> It appears to me that Thunderbird cannot decode Yenc or multipart
>>>> messages, at
>>>> least not automatically. Am I incorrect? If I am wrong, I would
>>>> appreciate
>>>> some guidance.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks in advance.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Does this help?
>>>
>>> <http://edmullen.net/mozilla/moz_combine.php>
>>
>> Not at all, why do it the super hard way, when there are 100's of
>> binary readers that will do it automatically ?????
>>
>> ALWAYS use the right tool for the current job.
>>
>
> And do you have an explanation that would enable the OP to achive a
> resolution?
>

He just gave it to you, Ed: Use a newsreader that supports yEnc encoding
and automatic combining of binaries. TB doesn't.

--
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
// Trane Francks tr...@tranefrancks.com Tokyo, Japan
// Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.

[Vic Moz Garcia]

On 08/25/14 22:28, Trane Francks wrote:
> On 8/26/14 11:18 AM, Ed Mullen wrote:
>> Vic Moz Garcia pounded out :
>>> On 08/25/14 21:52, Ed Mullen wrote:
>>>> Charles Lindbergh pounded out :
>>>>> It appears to me that Thunderbird cannot decode Yenc or multipart
>>>>> messages, at
>>>>> least not automatically. Am I incorrect? If I am wrong, I would
>>>>> appreciate
>>>>> some guidance.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks in advance.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Does this help?
>>>>
>>>> <http://edmullen.net/mozilla/moz_combine.php>
>>>
>>> Not at all, why do it the super hard way, when there are 100's of
>>> binary readers that will do it automatically ?????
>>>
>>> ALWAYS use the right tool for the current job.
>>>
>>
>> And do you have an explanation that would enable the OP to achive a
>> resolution?
>>
> He just gave it to you, Ed: Use a newsreader that supports yEnc encoding
> and automatic combining of binaries. TB doesn't.

Exactly, TB cannot, so use a binary reader, which one ???
Well, it depends on what you try to do, a good starting point is:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Usenet_newsreaders

First hit on Google.

[Ron Hunter]

On 8/25/2014 5:46 PM, Charles Lindbergh wrote:
> It appears to me that Thunderbird cannot decode Yenc or multipart messages, at
> least not automatically. Am I incorrect? If I am wrong, I would appreciate
> some guidance.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>

It can decode some YENC messages, but NOT multipart messages. It never
will. There are a number of programs that will do this, such as Xnews.
Explore them.

[WaltS48]

On 08/26/2014 09:56 AM, Charles Lindbergh wrote:

> On Mon, 25 Aug 2014 21:47:12 -0400, Vic Moz Garcia <VicG...@at-gmail.dot.com>
> wrote:
>
>> People will NEVER EVER RTFM.....
>

> That was nice......
>


I did not know of an up to date Fine manual.

[WaltS48]

On 08/26/2014 10:29 AM, Charles Lindbergh wrote:

> On Tue, 26 Aug 2014 10:11:22 -0400, WaltS48 <thali...@EVOMERaim.com> wrote:
>
>> On 08/26/2014 09:56 AM, Charles Lindbergh wrote:
>>> On Mon, 25 Aug 2014 21:47:12 -0400, Vic Moz Garcia <VicG...@at-gmail.dot.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> People will NEVER EVER RTFM.....
>>>
>>> That was nice......
>>>
>>
>>
>> I did not know of an up to date Fine manual.
>

> OH! the "F" in RTFM stands for "fine"?


Featureless?


>
> Things have really changed since I fell asleep twenty years ago under that
> tree.......
>

They have. :)

[Poutnik]

Dne 26.8.2014 v 16:29 Charles Lindbergh napsal(a):

> On Tue, 26 Aug 2014 10:11:22 -0400, WaltS48 <thali...@EVOMERaim.com> wrote:
>
>>>
>>>> People will NEVER EVER RTFM.....
>>>
>>> That was nice......
>>
>> I did not know of an up to date Fine manual.
>

> OH! the "F" in RTFM stands for "fine"?
>

> Things have really changed since I fell asleep twenty years ago under that
> tree.......
>

Other than fine manuals have no chance to be read :-D

--
Poutnik

[Mike Easter]

Ed Mullen wrote:

> <http://edmullen.net/mozilla/moz_combine.php>

That is a very useful page. For Windows users, in addition to the
yDecode proxy, there is also a yProxy which has both a pay and a free
version, and the pay version has a 60 d. free trial.

If one wants the free version from the Brawny Lads site, they must find
the Easter Egg by such as reading all the FAQs.


--
Mike Easter

[Ed Mullen]

Trane Francks pounded out :

> On 8/26/14 11:18 AM, Ed Mullen wrote:
>> Vic Moz Garcia pounded out :
>>> On 08/25/14 21:52, Ed Mullen wrote:
>>>> Charles Lindbergh pounded out :
>>>>> It appears to me that Thunderbird cannot decode Yenc or multipart
>>>>> messages, at
>>>>> least not automatically. Am I incorrect? If I am wrong, I would
>>>>> appreciate
>>>>> some guidance.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks in advance.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Does this help?
>>>>
>>>> <http://edmullen.net/mozilla/moz_combine.php>
>>>
>>> Not at all, why do it the super hard way, when there are 100's of
>>> binary readers that will do it automatically ?????
>>>
>>> ALWAYS use the right tool for the current job.
>>>
>>
>> And do you have an explanation that would enable the OP to achive a
>> resolution?
>>
> He just gave it to you, Ed: Use a newsreader that supports yEnc encoding
> and automatic combining of binaries. TB doesn't.
>

Yes, but the OP seemed to suggest that a way to do it in TB was wanted.
So that's what I provided.

--
Ed Mullen
http://edmullen.net/

When in doubt assume that, once again, you've outsmarted yourself.

[Ed Mullen]

Yes, but what if you don't want to use another program and want to keep
using TB?

--
Ed Mullen
http://edmullen.net/

[Mike Easter]

Charles Lindbergh wrote:
> Things have really changed since I fell asleep twenty years ago under that
> tree.......

I didn't recall a tree in the W.I. RVW story, except for illustrations
which aren't necessarily true to the story, so I went to Project
Gutenberg to id RVW's resting place 'accommodations'.

RVW went from a knoll to a ravine with the stranger with the cask of
which he subsequently drank to sleepiness and awoke transported back to
the knoll. It seems illogical that he would be moved a little ways, but
it seems so.

No tree is mentioned. The knoll had 'herbiage' which doesn't sound
tree-like, and surely the ten-pins 'alley' area had no trees.

http://www.gutenberg.org/files/19721/19721-h/19721-h.htm

f/ups .general

--
Mike Easter

[Vic Moz Garcia]

On 08/26/14 12:41, Charles Lindbergh wrote:

> Exactly, or worse yet, you have someone older than me who is using Thunderbird
> and is dead set in their ways but you want them to be able to see what is being
> posted because you know it will give them some pleasure.
>
> My original question was geared towards finding a posting method which
> Thunderbird can accommodate.
>
> The end result was, use a very old version of Powerpost capable of posting
> uuencoded, single part binaries. The poster I was assisting employed this
> method and now the older codgers can enjoy some pictures of an Air show.

Simple, just tell the user: NO, it cannot be done with TB.
If it's a few pictures, do it on your computer, then send it to your
friend as email attachments in TB.
If he wants a lot of pictures, install and configure a newsreader for him.
Easy, simple and it works, why try to make things more complicate than
what they should be ???

[s|b]

On Tue, 26 Aug 2014 13:56:28 +0000, Charles Lindbergh wrote:

> Personally, I tried TB for Usenet years ago and realized it is not as versatile
> as many other readers such as Agent. However, Thunderbird is simply the best
> tool for email.

I agree! :-)

BTW I see that you use 7.10. If I'm not mistaken, then you can upgrade
to 7.20/32.1218 for free.

--
s|b

[Mike Easter]

Charles Lindbergh wrote:

> a group were the posters all post single part articles using
> uuencode.

Why is that? (Using uue).

[s|b]

On Tue, 26 Aug 2014 18:18:57 +0000, Charles Lindbergh wrote:

> >BTW I see that you use 7.10. If I'm not mistaken, then you can upgrade
> >to 7.20/32.1218 for free.

> Is there an advantage to upgrading?

Not much. The number of simultaneous uncapped connections was increased
to 30 (as well in Agent as Agent Premium News).

--
s|b

[s|b]

On Tue, 26 Aug 2014 18:38:44 +0000, Charles Lindbergh wrote:

> I see you are either a beta tester or a developer of Agent.

I'm no developer, that's for sure. :-)

> The other thing I would love to see would be the ability to filter and search
> posts on any header after the post has been retrieved. Doesn't seem like it
> would be so difficult to do.

This has been on my list for a long time. I was very happy when
filtering on message-id became possible, but I want more. I could use
nFilter or Hamster, but I don't want to. I tried Hamster and I'm sure
it's a very powerful tool, but it's out of my league (or I'm too lazy to
really learn how to use it).

> Oh, I guess this is the wrong place to talk about Agent, I am sure someone will
> slap my wrist for doing so. If you want to reply, please do so in the Forte
> group, I would love to continue the discussion.

I'm subscribed to auorfa and I like discussions, although I can't reveal
anything about 8.x.

--
s|b

[Ron Hunter]

On 8/26/2014 8:56 AM, Charles Lindbergh wrote:

> Thanks Ron. I appreciate all the input (even the snarky remarks by others). In
> actuality, I use Forte Agent (and have for many, many years) as my news reader
> and post small batches of binaries with a couple of different programs.
>
> Another poster had put up some images that a TB user could not view. I wanted
> to understand why (answered by WaltS48) and how the poster could accommodate the
> TBird user.
>
> I finally found a very old version of PowerPost that would post in UUENCODE
> instead of Yenc. No matter what I did, I was unable to get TB to natively
> decode even a single yenc image.

>
> Personally, I tried TB for Usenet years ago and realized it is not as versatile
> as many other readers such as Agent. However, Thunderbird is simply the best
> tool for email.
>

If the Yenc post is a single part image file, and NOT part of a series,
TB will display it. Unfortunately, this limits it to a rare file, here
and there. Not really useful.

[Ron Hunter]

On 8/26/2014 11:47 AM, Charles Lindbergh wrote:
> On Tue, 26 Aug 2014 14:01:53 +0000, Charles Lindbergh <spi...@stlouis.invalid>
> wrote:

>
>> On Tue, 26 Aug 2014 13:56:28 +0000, Charles Lindbergh <spi...@stlouis.invalid>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> No matter what I did, I was unable to get TB to natively
>>> decode even a single yenc image.
>>

>> Allow me to correct myself on the above, I forgot that I WAS able to get TB to
>> decode smaller, single part, yenc encoded images.
>
> Now I am going to correct myself even further, I just discovered Thunderbird can
> only read SOME yenc posts. For some reason, it will not decode single part yenc
> binaries posted with PowerPost.
>
> Does anyone have further information on the yenc limitations in Thunderbird?
>
As nearly as I can tell, it only decodes single part yenc posts that
aren't part of a series. I don't know why this matters, but I guess
something in the yenc header causes it to think it is trying to be a
multi-part binary, which TB specifically won't do. It used to be
possible to mark several parts, and write them into a file, and then
decode them, but that feature was removed.

[Ron K.]

Charles Lindbergh on 8/26/2014 3:48 PM, keyboarded a reply:

> Thanks again Ron.
>
> The yenc and multipart limitations seem somewhat anachronistic in today's media
> centric society.
>

What Yenc ability that TB has was contributed by a volunteer years ago
when the Yenc spec was not multi-part capable. A later revision to Yenc
added a second line to the header meta data, which breaks TB' decoder.
The added line contains part 1 of X info plus additional meta data.

--
Ron K.
Who is General Failure, and why is he searching my HDD?
Kernel Restore reported Major Error used BSOD to msg the enemy!

[Vic Moz Garcia]

On 08/26/14 14:04, Charles Lindbergh wrote:

> A. The person was not a friend but rather a regular in a group were the posters

> all post single part articles using uuencode.

TB can handle those, that was not the OP question.


> B. As for the suggestion of installing a news reader for "him"; as it turns out
> there are numerous people in the group using TB, they are Usenet users all over
> the planet.

Because the OP wanted to decode 'Yenc Multi-part messg' TB cannot handle
those, period, need a binary newsreader.
Of course there are millions of TB user in Usenet, me myself as of now,
but we use it to read the articles and see some pictures, not to decode
multipart files, for that we use a binary reader.

> C. It is far easier for an individual poster to accommodate multiple TB users
> than it is to force multiple, "older than dirt" TB users to install and learn
> new software.

If to accommodate one user the suggestion is to use an old, outdated,
risky version of the posting software ... making it risky for all the
readers of that group ... NOT my idea of a solution at all.

> Mind you, this is simply my kinder and gentler approach to users and technology.

That is a valid point, but if we will no push a little bit, our mail
still will be carried by pigeons and horseback riders.

> Thanks for your input!

[»Q«]

In <news:msgpv9lq7knf6im1c...@4ax.com>,

Charles Lindbergh <spi...@stlouis.invalid> wrote:

> A. The person was not a friend but rather a regular in a group were
> the posters all post single part articles using uuencode.
>

> B. As for the suggestion of installing a news reader for "him"; as it
> turns out there are numerous people in the group using TB, they are
> Usenet users all over the planet.
>

> C. It is far easier for an individual poster to accommodate multiple
> TB users than it is to force multiple, "older than dirt" TB users to
> install and learn new software.
>

> Mind you, this is simply my kinder and gentler approach to users and
> technology.

I'm amazed to hear that a single-post binary image group is still
active. Rather than have the poster accommodate the Thunderbird users
by working around TB's suckage as a binary client, ISTM Flickr or one
off the other photo-sharing web sites would be a less headachey way to
share the images.

[»Q«]

In <news:3ccqv9pn56p1k58md...@4ax.com>,
Charles Lindbergh <spi...@stlouis.invalid> wrote:

> Thanks. It's a shame this is not considered important.

It's not a shame. Other clients designed for text and retrofitted for
binary Usenet have long since been eclipsed by clients dedicated
handling binary groups, because the binary groups exploded in size,
with millions of headers per group. The same would have happened to
Thunderbird if the effort had been made. At this point, adding some
binary-handling features to Thunderbird could only bring it up to par
with the designed-for-text, binary-retrofitted clients of ten or fifteen
years ago, all of which are inadequate for typical use of binary
Usenet today.¹

> Maybe Usenet is only for us old farts and the young developers don't
> see it as a priority.

Almost all us old farts quit using the old text clients for binary
Usenet ages (well, internet ages) ago. Those of us who were using
screwdrivers to drive nails switched to hammers once hammers appeared
on the scene.

In this particular case, a group in which a bunch of ancient TB users
are sharing only single-post UUE posts and everyone is willing to
accommodate them, ISTM recommending old PowerPost is a decent
solution. But in general, IMO, "don't use Thunderbird" is the kinder,
gentler advice for binary Usenetizens.

1 - Elsewhere in the thread, Xnews was mentioned. For a little while
(1998-2001 or so, IIRC) it was one of the better clients for binary
Usenet. Its users started discouraging its use for that purpose
years ago, though.

[Mike Easter]

Charles Lindbergh wrote:

> �Q� wrote:

>> Other clients designed for text and retrofitted for binary Usenet
>> have long since been eclipsed by clients dedicated handling binary
>> groups, because the binary groups exploded in size, with millions
>> of headers per group. The same would have happened to Thunderbird
>> if the effort had been made. At this point, adding some
>> binary-handling features to Thunderbird could only bring it up to
>> par with the designed-for-text, binary-retrofitted clients of ten
>> or fifteen years ago, all of which are inadequate for typical use

>> of binary Usenet today.�

> As TB is still under active development and still includes Usenet
> reading capabilities, it is my humble opinion the Usenet feature set
> should include the ability to decode posts encoded with multi-part
> yenc.

I see mail/news clients as having 3 potential significantly disparate
roles; plaintext news and mail, html mail, and 'modern' usenet binary
handling including nzb indexing, combine, yDecoding, par/par2 parity
reconstruction.

Usenet binary management is a monster that is far larger than 'light
weight' binary handling; and usenet text requirements are larger than
the Tb developers have properly recognized with the emphasis on html mail.

It doesn't seem to me that the binary monster should be engaged before
robust usenet text niceties are fully developed.

Likely that opinion is because I like to use Tb as a usenet text agent
rather than an html news agent or a binary usenet agent.

> IMHO, It makes little sense to support base64 and uuencode for the TB
> newsreader but yet ignore the de facto standard for Usenet media
> transfer, multi-part yenc.

I don't think the base64 or uue are useful either, but I also don't
think that argues for trying to enhance Tb as a binary usenet agent.

>> Almost all us old farts quit using the old text clients for binary
>> Usenet ages (well, internet ages) ago.

I agree with the philosophy that binary usenet handling should use a
different agent than agents which are properly designed for good usenet
text. Tb isn't even a robust usenet text agent.

[»Q«]

In <news:mulrv9d6a13a5sudu...@4ax.com>,
Charles Lindbergh <spi...@stlouis.invalid> wrote:

> I still have no intention of trying to force new software or
> procedures down the throats of men who have sacrificed and served
> their respective countries, many during WWII, just so they might
> enjoy glimpses of the aircraft they once crewed in defense of our
> freedoms.

Have these ancient vets been using exclusively Thunderbird in that
group? It strikes me as strange that this issue never arose before in
all these years of multi-part yEnc ubiquity. (Or maybe it did, but was
never "solved" till now?)

I've crossposted and set followups to mozilla.general.

[Trane Francks]

On 8/28/14 5:47 AM, Charles Lindbergh wrote:

> My position is: I want to understand the capabilities of Tbird so I can
> accommodate men who have sacrificed for me. Additionally, it is my opinion, if
> Tbird is going to include Usenet capabilities, it should accommodate all de
> facto posting standards.

The issue is that open-source software written by volunteers inevitably
supports the features required by those who are writing the software. As
binary newsgroups have been a fading concern for at least a decade or
more, it's unlikely that you'll ever see Thunderbird gain more
comprehensive support.

In fact, m.s.thunderbird and m.s.seamonkey are the only two newsgroups
in which I participate anymore. While my example of one is exactly that,
I cannot help but feel that Usenet is well and truly on the decline.
--
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
// Trane Francks tr...@tranefrancks.com Tokyo, Japan
// Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.

[pop]

Charles Lindbergh wrote on 8/25/2014 5:46 PM:
> It appears to me that Thunderbird cannot decode Yenc or multipart messages, at
> least not automatically. Am I incorrect? If I am wrong, I would appreciate
> some guidance.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>

Grabit is a free yenc downloader that can do multipart conversion
extremely well. There is only a charge to unlock the usenet search
option. You only need access to the newsgroups you are subscribed to.
You can download it at:
http://www.shemes.com/

HTH
pop->Mark

[»Q«]

In <news:8sfsv9d3d4fdg81p1...@4ax.com>,
Charles Lindbergh <spi...@stlouis.invalid> wrote:

> All I care about is; there are several of these honorable gentlemen
> who are using Tbird.

That issue is long since worked around, AIUI. I called it a decent
solution for the noble geezers and moved on to questions you don't
care about.

> I prefer to have this thread in the thunderbird forum.

That's too bad. I'm ok with discussing this stuff with you, but no way
do my questions about the old guys' group(s) belong in the support
group. Followup is set again, though it appears we're done.

> I believe I understand your position: No quarter should be granted to
> users who are challenged by change.

That is a *gross* misunderstanding of my position. I'm sorry to find
we've been talking past each other.

[B00ze/Empire]

On 2014-08-25 18:46, Charles Lindbergh <spi...@stlouis.invalid> wrote:
> It appears to me that Thunderbird cannot decode Yenc or multipart messages, at
> least not automatically. Am I incorrect? If I am wrong, I would appreciate
> some guidance.
>
> Thanks in advance.

I'm pretty late to the party, but there is this to at least combine
multipart posts:
https://addons.mozilla.org/bn-BD/thunderbird/addon/join-ng/
Wont help with yEnc tho...

Regards,

--
! _\|/_ Sylvain / B00...@hotmail.com
! (o o) Member-+-David-Suzuki-Foundation-+-Planetary-Society-
oO-( )-Oo Stop smirking Number One -Picard

[B00ze/Empire]

On 2014-08-28 20:43, B00ze/Empire <B00...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On 2014-08-25 18:46, Charles Lindbergh <spi...@stlouis.invalid> wrote:
>> It appears to me that Thunderbird cannot decode Yenc or multipart
>> messages, at
>> least not automatically. Am I incorrect? If I am wrong, I would
>> appreciate
>> some guidance.
>>
>> Thanks in advance.
>
> I'm pretty late to the party, but there is this to at least combine
> multipart posts:
> https://addons.mozilla.org/bn-BD/thunderbird/addon/join-ng/
> Wont help with yEnc tho...
>
> Regards,

Oh well maybe it will work fine, I just read that TB can decode
single-part yEnc, so maybe once its combined with the JoinNG addOn, you
can decode it inside of TB - it's worth a look (I dont have anything to
try it with myself, sorry). Also, dunno why I got the bn-BD version of
the addOns while searching in Google, here's the en-US link:
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/addon/join-ng/

Best Regards,

--
! _\|/_ Sylvain / B00...@hotmail.com
! (o o) Member-+-David-Suzuki-Foundation-+-Planetary-Society-

oO-( )-Oo Phase 1 of the Borg conquest: Introduce the GST.

[drek]

Note this is a repost to news.mozilla.org

On 8/26/2014 9:47 AM, Charles Lindbergh wrote:
> On Tue, 26 Aug 2014 14:01:53 +0000, Charles Lindbergh <spi...@stlouis.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 26 Aug 2014 13:56:28 +0000, Charles Lindbergh <spi...@stlouis.invalid>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> No matter what I did, I was unable to get TB to natively
>>> decode even a single yenc image.
>>
>> Allow me to correct myself on the above, I forgot that I WAS able to get TB to
>> decode smaller, single part, yenc encoded images.
>
> Now I am going to correct myself even further, I just discovered Thunderbird can
> only read SOME yenc posts. For some reason, it will not decode single part yenc
> binaries posted with PowerPost.
>

The trouble is there are so many forks of the original PowerPost 2000.

> Does anyone have further information on the yenc limitations in Thunderbird?
>

I believe the issue is malformed yEnc attachments. Per the yEnc spec
an attachment that isn't split needs no part tag. Viewing the message
source will show the tag and confirm which Tbird decodes and which it
doesn't.

It *will* decode a single-part beginning with this description:
1) =ybegin line=128 size=nnnn name=nnnnnnnn.nnn


It *won't* decode a single-part beginning with this description:
2) =ybegin part=1 line=128 size=nnnn name=nnnnnnnn.nnn

The offending portion being the "part=1" tag.

Unfortunately many popular autoposters all include the part=1 tag in
binaries which aren't split.

JBinUp 0.90 Beta 7 - Build: 2008120403
Camelsystem Powerpost
YENC-POWER-POST-A&A-v11b

A short list of autoposters that get it right.

Forte Agent 1.93/32.576 English (American)
POWERPOST 2K jw Edition b
POWERPOST 2K jw Edition c
Xnews/2009.05.01

In the end it's up to the news reader to be liberal in what it
receives. Some are robust enough to recognize the error
and some aren't.

[drek]

Note this is a repost to news.mozilla.org

On 8/25/2014 3:46 PM, Charles Lindbergh wrote:
> It appears to me that Thunderbird cannot decode Yenc

For future reference, it's been doing that since Jan. 2006.

The copy I got of Thunderbird 1.5* decoded "single-part" yEnc encoded
binaries posted by:

Forte Agent 1.93/32.576 English (American)
POWERPOST 2K jw Edition b
POWERPOST 2K jw Edition c
Xnews/2009.05.01

That isn't intended to be a complete list.

> or multipart messages, at least not automatically.

FWIW I tried "Join-NG 0.8.3"** mentioned later in this thread. It
enabled Thunderbird 31.2.0 to join a 5-part attachment encoded as
base-64 MIME. It was posted by the same Agent 1.93 in the list above.

It worked as advertised and copied it to a Joined folder it created in
Tbird. No joy on UUE or yEnc.


* Version info About: version 1.5.0.9 (20061207)
http://www-archive.mozilla.org/projects/thunderbird/roadmap-1.5.html

** Join-NG 0.8.3
by Paulius Zaleckas
Join partial messages. Somewhat similar to MS Outlook Express "combine
and decode".
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/addon/join-ng/

[drek]

Note this is a repost to news.mozilla.org

On 8/25/2014 4:09 PM, WaltS48 wrote:
> On 08/25/2014 06:46 PM, Charles Lindbergh wrote:
>> It appears to me that Thunderbird cannot decode Yenc or multipart
>> messages, at

>> least not automatically. Am I incorrect? If I am wrong, I would
>> appreciate
>> some guidance.
>>
>> Thanks in advance.
>>
>
>

> You are correct sir! Probably never will.
>
Note Thunderbird has decoded yEnc since at least the version 1.5
release in January 2006. This bug report remains unresolved over the
inability to combine multi-parts.

> [119964 – (yEnc) Support yEnc encoding (including
> multipart)](https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=119964)
>
> I use the Pan newsreader for those messages.
>
See: Comment 96 Peter 2005-01-06 15:17:07 PST

"I think my original report that Thunderbird did not support yEnc
decoding was in error...Using Agent I identified a couple of complete
yEnc encoded posts and then downloaded them using Thunderbird.
They decoded OK."

Bug 893782 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

"Newsgroup multipart photos not completing as one picture,
ever since NetScape"
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=893782

FWIW here's a screencap of 1.5 displaying a yEnc attachment.

http://sd.uploads.im/kXjbe.jpg

[Ron Hunter]

TB will display a single part Yenc file as long as it is a stand-alone,
with only one part, and not part of a series. It does not, OOB combine
and decode multipart binaries.

[Wolf K.]

On 2014-11-21 2:39 PM, drek wrote:
[...]

> I believe the issue is malformed yEnc attachments.

[...]

That's a polite way of saying that the issue is a mess of conflicting
specifications for yEnc. In addition, yEnc does not differentiate
between multi-part files and multiple files.

Apparently, the original inventor refused to co-operate with the
international body that governs standards for the 'net, updated his
format several times, then abandoned it. There is no yEnc standard that
I've been able to discover. Pity, since the concept is a good one: yEnc
actually produces smaller files for transmission than the originals,
while uuencode and mime both produce larger files.

Have a good day,

--
Best,
Wolf K.
kirkwood40.blogspot.ca

[drek]

On 11/21/2014 4:19 PM, Wolf K. wrote:
> On 2014-11-21 2:39 PM, drek wrote:
> [...]
>> I believe the issue is malformed yEnc attachments.
> [...]
>
> That's a polite way of saying that the issue is a mess of conflicting
> specifications for yEnc.

No, what that states specifically is Alain & Assert didn't follow simple
directions and their version of PP2K spits out bad copy that Tbird won't
read.

Forte Agent and Luu Tran (Xnews) DID follow directions and are among the
encoders that Tbird WILL read.

> In addition, yEnc does not differentiate
> between multi-part files and multiple files.
>

Sure it does and it's recorded within the encoded article itself. It was
one of the primary *improvements* over handling it all outside the
article in a subject. It also introduced built-in CRC verification.

> Apparently, the original inventor refused to co-operate with the
> international body that governs standards for the 'net, updated his
> format several times, then abandoned it. There is no yEnc standard that
> I've been able to discover. Pity, since the concept is a good one: yEnc
> actually produces smaller files for transmission than the originals,
> while uuencode and mime both produce larger files.
>

Wow. That's the kind of thing written about it 12 yrs ago. I'd like to
help you untangle that but it's a topic for another group. Suffice it to
say it does work, Thunderbird does read it, and binary UseNet is almost
entirely encoded with it. (Think bumblebee.)

The purpose for the article was to answer the simple question of whether
Thunderbird can decode yEnc. The answer is yes.

[drek]

True there are many things it doesn't do. The purpose of the article was
to describe two it does.

If OOB means out-of-the-box it should be clear in reading that it does
require an add-on to combine and decode. It should also be clear it was
only tested in a specific case. I won't be using it for binary groups
any time soon.

[WaltS48]

I use Pan for binary groups, except for alt.binaries.pictures.scenic which Thunderbird handles very well.

[drek]

On 11/21/2014 7:12 PM, WaltS48 wrote:

<snip> (It's OK to trim unreplied text)

> I use Pan for binary groups, except for alt.binaries.pictures.scenic
> which Thunderbird handles very well.

Wonderful but the question was whether Thunderbird reads yEnc. Hopefully
next time someone asks here they will find out it does.

Anyone using it in alt.binaries.pictures.wallpaper can tell you that
already. SL posts there almost daily and the line count of those yEnc
posts is great enough many of them are single-part, which Thunderbird
reads well also.

[Wolf K.]

On 2014-11-21 9:21 PM, drek wrote:
[...]

> The purpose for the article was to answer the simple question of whether
> Thunderbird can decode yEnc. The answer is yes.

My experience is same as OP's: TB can decode some yEnc, but chokes on
most of it. IMO, that's not a TB problem, but a yEnc problem. As has
been mentioned, different yEnc posting programs "spit out" different
formats of yEnc because the users don't know (or care) about tweaking
the settings or upgrading the programs. Hence my comment that yEnc is a
mess.

For the average TB user, IMO there are two issues:
a) How to get TB to do a better job decoding yEnc. The answer is to use
an add-on or 3rd party program that can handle yEnc.
b) How to avoid yEnc if possible. The answer is to use Facebook, Flickr,
Pinterst, etc.

Should the TBird devs write code to deal with all yEnc formats? That's
not for me to say. FWIW, I very rarely encounter yEnc on the binary
groups I visit, so it's largely irrelevant to me. YMMV.

[Ed Mullen]

TB won't but there is a way to still use TBin combination with another
tool to accomplish this.

<http://edmullen.net/mozilla/moz_combine.php>


--
Ed Mullen
http://edmullen.net/
Give a person a fish and you feed them for a day; teach that person to
use the Internet and they won't bother you for weeks.

[Wolf K.]

On 2014-11-21 5:02 PM, Ron Hunter wrote:
[...]

> TB will display a single part Yenc file as long as it is a stand-alone,
> with only one part, and not part of a series. It does not, OOB combine
> and decode multipart binaries.

Sometimes will, sometimes won't. Depends entirely on which yEnc spec the
posting program uses.

[Ron Hunter]

It depends on how you define 'handles'. It will decode Yenc, but ONLY
works on single images, not multipart, or in a series. This is by intent.

[drek]

On 11/22/2014 6:43 AM, Wolf K. wrote:
> On 2014-11-21 9:21 PM, drek wrote:
> [...]
>> The purpose for the article was to answer the simple question of whether
>> Thunderbird can decode yEnc. The answer is yes.
>
> My experience is same as OP's: TB can decode some yEnc, but chokes on
> most of it. IMO, that's not a TB problem, but a yEnc problem.

That isn't true and it fails to comprehend the situation.

Thunderbird will always decode a single-part attachment posted by any
version of Forte Agent. The encode method is irrelevant.

If posting software includes a multi-part tag Thunderbird will never
attempt to decode it. The encode method is irrelevant.

The cause is a basic lack of functionality in Thunderbird. When it
encounter a multi-part tag it stops processing the message. That
behavior is by design.

> As has
> been mentioned, different yEnc posting programs "spit out" different
> formats of yEnc because the users don't know (or care) about tweaking
> the settings or upgrading the programs. Hence my comment that yEnc is a
> mess.
>

LOL. There *is* no user accessible setting to tweak. It's a hard coded
error in some posting software written by individuals.

Blaming the encoding is exactly like blaming the dictionary because
someone can't spel wright.

Again Thunderbird always decodes yEnc it's multi-parts it chokes on.

> For the average TB user, IMO there are two issues:
> a) How to get TB to do a better job decoding yEnc. The answer is to use
> an add-on or 3rd party program that can handle yEnc.
> b) How to avoid yEnc if possible. The answer is to use Facebook, Flickr,
> Pinterst, etc.
>

Thunderbird was enabled for yEnc years ago. It's users have no need for
additional software. Suggesting UseNet is unreadable is just plain
ridiculous.

> Should the TBird devs write code to deal with all yEnc formats? That's
> not for me to say. FWIW, I very rarely encounter yEnc on the binary
> groups I visit, so it's largely irrelevant to me. YMMV.
>

The challenge in any support forum is to provide accurate answers to
users seeking help. In this case that means updating and correcting
information that has been wrong for a decade. Good luck.

[Wolf K.]

On 2014-11-22 3:33 PM, drek wrote:
[...]

> Thunderbird will always decode a single-part attachment posted by any
> version of Forte Agent. The encode method is irrelevant.

[...]

But not everyone uses Forte Agent.

Have a good day,

[drek]

"...many of them are single-part, which Thunderbird reads well also."
^^^^^
I make an attempt to avoid ambiguous terms.

Plus there are 100's of them--1000's if a server has enough retention.
People can download them all day long with Tbird and they're all yEnc.

yEnc - Tastes Great, Less Filling! Who'd a thunk it?

Later,

[Ron Hunter]

If the header reports as part of a series, TB won't process it. Ask the
guys at Mozilla why. I already know.

[drek]

On 8/26/2014 5:18 PM, Ron K. wrote:
> Charles Lindbergh on 8/26/2014 3:48 PM, keyboarded a reply:
<snip>
>>
>> The yenc and multipart limitations seem somewhat anachronistic in
>> today's media centric society.
>>
>
> What Yenc ability that TB has was contributed by a volunteer years ago
> when the Yenc spec was not multi-part capable. A later revision to Yenc
> added a second line to the header meta data, which breaks TB' decoder.
> The added line contains part 1 of X info plus additional meta data.
>
Actually yEnc was finalized nearly 3 years before Thunderbird was
released to the public. From what I've read much of the work for adding
it was done on a mailing list so I can't say exactly when it showed up.
I've seen users report in forums they decoded yEnc as early as v 1.4.
The final yEnc spec was March 2002 and Tbird's 1st release was Dec 2004.

It's worth pointing this out as a unique advantage of Thunderbird. If
motivated users see a need for improvement, they can do it themselves
and see it incorporated.

Compare that to Outlook Express which was born broken and died broken.
Those trying to use the news side of it waited in vain for a number of
important fixes that never did happen, quote-fix and yEnc being just 2.
For more on that Tom Koch has a lot to say from his yrs of experience as
MSVP for OE.

Sorry for the delay. It was initially only going to be a reply to the OP
for future reference but I decided to read the thread.

Revisions:
v1.0, 31-Jul-2001
v1.1, 17-Feb-2002
v1.2, 28-Feb-2002
v1.3, 05-Mar-2002
http://www.yenc.org/yenc-draft.1.3.txt

Thunderbird 1.0 Release Candidate 1 Is Now Available!
December 1st, 2004
http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?p=1020843

Tom Koch "Inside OE"
Largely historical he's moved on to other things.
http://www.insideoe.com/

[Ron K.]

The Bugzilla bug tracking system has Bug:
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=119964
which was entered in Jan, 2002 and patch work was submitted for Mozilla
Suite, last patch date was 2003-07-07 and Super Reviewed by mscott, the
Lead Dev of the nascent TB Project.

From the inception of the TB Project in early 2003 till Bugzilla added
TB's use of Bugzilla, our bug reporting was through MozillaZine Forums. So
some of the yEnc commentary for TB may be in the old TB Forum.

--
Ron K.
Who is General Failure, and why is he searching my HDD?
Kernel Restore reported Major Error used BSOD to msg the enemy!

[Wolf K.]

On 2014-11-25 9:29 PM, drek wrote:
[...]

> Actually yEnc was finalized nearly 3 years before Thunderbird was

> released to the public. [...]

Thanks for this tidbit and others in your post. But wasn't TBird part of
Netscape/Firefox already? So in that sense it existed before yEnc.

These comments point up the flaws of yEnc:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YEnc#Problems

NB especially "Critics also take issue with the lack of formal
standardization." That's me, among others. IMO yEnc should be
standardised, but for various reasons that hasn't been done. Pity.

[Ron K.]

Wolf K. wrote on 11/26/2014 7:58 AM:
> On 2014-11-25 9:29 PM, drek wrote:
> [...]
>> Actually yEnc was finalized nearly 3 years before Thunderbird was
>> released to the public. [...]
>
> Thanks for this tidbit and others in your post. But wasn't TBird part of
> Netscape/Firefox already? So in that sense it existed before yEnc.
>

The TB Project was launched to explore using XUL ( Extensible User
Interface Language) to replace the XPCOM used by Mozilla Suite at the
time. At the same time the Firebird/Firefox project launched. TB
initiated it's code-base with the mailnews code of the Suite plus
essential modules. Firefox started with a branch of the Mozilla Suite
code, minus the mailnews code. As for Netscape, they released versions
6,7,8, and 9 from snapshots of the Mozilla code.

So TB did not exist before yEnc. In Jan, 2002 Mozilla Org was starting to
discuss adding yEnc, befor the final yEnc version was released. Not
untill mid 2003 was Mozilla Suite revised to allow future uses of
additional binary decoders other than UUEncode. See the bug I cited in my
earlier post.