Thunderbird 52.6.0: how to compact individual folder

[Natu]

I'm currently running Thunderbird 52.6.0 under beta release of Ubuntu
18.04.  In older versions of Ubuntu I could right click on a folder and
select compact to compact just that folder.  In 52.6.0 compact does not
show up in the individual folder menu, though I can compact all folders
from the file menu.

Is there a way to compact just a single folder in 52.6.0?

Thank You,

Natu

[David E. Ross]

I think you can select the individual folder and then select on the menu
bar [File > Compact Folders].

But why would you not want to compact all your folders? I do it at
least daily. Other users have commented here that Thunderbird has
problems -- even crashing -- when they try to compact after a long time
without compacting. If you do it frequently, you should avoid those
problems.

--
David E. Ross
<http://www.rossde.com/>

First you say you do, and then you don't.
And then you say you will, but then won't.
You're undecided now, so what're you goin' to do?
From a 1950s song
That should be Donald Trump's theme song. He obviously
does not understand "commitment", whether it is about
policy or marriage.

[Wolf K]

On 2018-04-05 23:27, David E. Ross wrote:
> On 4/5/2018 1:23 PM, Natu wrote:
>> I'm currently running Thunderbird 52.6.0 under beta release of Ubuntu
>> 18.04.  In older versions of Ubuntu I could right click on a folder and
>> select compact to compact just that folder.  In 52.6.0 compact does not
>> show up in the individual folder menu, though I can compact all folders
>> from the file menu.
>>
>> Is there a way to compact just a single folder in 52.6.0?
>>
>> Thank You,
>>
>> Natu
>>
>>
>
> I think you can select the individual folder and then select on the menu
> bar [File > Compact Folders].
>
> But why would you not want to compact all your folders? I do it at
> least daily. Other users have commented here that Thunderbird has
> problems -- even crashing -- when they try to compact after a long time
> without compacting. If you do it frequently, you should avoid those
> problems.
>

Tools - Options - Advanced tab - Network & Disk Space tab - Look for
"Compact all folders when..." and select a suitable value.

Best,

--
Wolf K
kirkwood40.blogspot.com
"The next conference for the time travel design team will be held two
weeks ago."

[incoming...@rjl.com]

On 04/05/2018 08:27 PM, David E. Ross wrote:
> On 4/5/2018 1:23 PM, Natu wrote:

> I think you can select the individual folder and then select on the menu
> bar [File > Compact Folders].
>
> But why would you not want to compact all your folders? I do it at
> least daily. Other users have commented here that Thunderbird has
> problems -- even crashing -- when they try to compact after a long time
> without compacting. If you do it frequently, you should avoid those
> problems.
>

File > Compact Folders compacts all folders.  I use the feature of
compacting individual folders because if you have alot of folders with
alot of messages in them, it take a long time to compact all the folders
and I only really need to compact folders when I've delete messages in them.

Thank You,

Natu

[EE]

What is wrong with compacting all of them?

[Good Guy]

On 08/04/2018 01:39, incoming...@rjl.com wrote:

File > Compact Folders compacts all folders.  I use the feature of
compacting individual folders because if you have alot of folders with
alot of messages in them, it take a long time to compact all the folders
and I only really need to compact folders when I've delete messages in them.

You can delete the .msf file for that particular folder and the FF will compact the folder automatically.  The only problem with this is that it also downloads/populates the folder again from the index.  This may not be suitable for everybody.

--

With over 600 million devices now running Windows 10, customer satisfaction is higher than any previous version of windows.

[Caver1]

Right click on desired folder and choose compact.

--
Caver1

[WaltS48]

Three days after the OP and finally the correct answer.

--
Best name ever! Cadet Bone Spurs
NRA = Newly Recruited Activists
National Popular Vote <http://www.nationalpopularvote.com/>
Ubuntu 16.04LTS - Unity Desktop

[Chris Ramsden]

On 08/04/18 20:55, WaltS48 wrote:

> On 4/8/18 3:31 PM, Caver1 wrote:
>> On 04/05/2018 04:23 PM, Natu wrote:
>>> I'm currently running Thunderbird 52.6.0 under beta release of Ubuntu
>>> 18.04.  In older versions of Ubuntu I could right click on a folder and
>>> select compact to compact just that folder.  In 52.6.0 compact does not
>>> show up in the individual folder menu, though I can compact all folders
>>> from the file menu.
>>>
>>> Is there a way to compact just a single folder in 52.6.0?
>>>
>>> Thank You,
>>>
>>> Natu
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Right click on desired folder and choose compact.
>>
>
> Three days after the OP and finally the correct answer.
>

My right-click context menu doesn't have a "compact" option. I assumed that's what prompted the OP. So it is not "the correct answer".

I'm also using Linux, but with TB 52.7.0. Maybe Linux is the commonality here? Could Windows and Mac users confirm that they DO see this option? Could other Linux users comment?
--
Chris

[Endegee]

On 08-Apr-2018 16:05, Chris Ramsden wrote:
> On 08/04/18 20:55, WaltS48 wrote:
>
>> On 4/8/18 3:31 PM, Caver1 wrote:
>>> On 04/05/2018 04:23 PM, Natu wrote:
>>>> I'm currently running Thunderbird 52.6.0 under beta release of Ubuntu

>>>> 18.04.  In older versions of Ubuntu I could right click on a folder and
>>>> select compact to compact just that folder.  In 52.6.0 compact does not

>>>> show up in the individual folder menu, though I can compact all folders
>>>> from the file menu.
>>>>
>>>> Is there a way to compact just a single folder in 52.6.0?
>>>>
>>>> Thank You,
>>>>
>>>> Natu
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Right click on desired folder and choose compact.
>>>
>>
>> Three days after the OP and finally the correct answer.
>>
> My right-click context menu doesn't have a "compact" option. I assumed that's what prompted the OP. So it is not "the correct answer".
>
> I'm also using Linux, but with TB 52.7.0. Maybe Linux is the commonality here? Could Windows and Mac users confirm that they DO see this option? Could other Linux users comment?
>

Windows 8.1 with TB 52.7.0 and "NO" compact option on right click.

[Endegee]

Correction: No compact option on Newsgroups folders but available for
email folders.

[Keith Nuttle]

I am running Windows 10 16299.334 with Thunderbird 52.7.0 (32-bit).

The email folders all have the right click option to compact the folder,
newsgroups accounts do not.

[WaltS48]

On 04/08/2018 08:05 PM, Chris Ramsden wrote:
> On 08/04/18 20:55, WaltS48 wrote:
>
>> On 4/8/18 3:31 PM, Caver1 wrote:
>>> On 04/05/2018 04:23 PM, Natu wrote:
>>>> I'm currently running Thunderbird 52.6.0 under beta release of Ubuntu
>>>> 18.04.  In older versions of Ubuntu I could right click on a folder and
>>>> select compact to compact just that folder.  In 52.6.0 compact does not
>>>> show up in the individual folder menu, though I can compact all folders
>>>> from the file menu.
>>>>
>>>> Is there a way to compact just a single folder in 52.6.0?
>>>>
>>>> Thank You,
>>>>
>>>> Natu
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Right click on desired folder and choose compact.
>>>
>>
>> Three days after the OP and finally the correct answer.
>>
> My right-click context menu doesn't have a "compact" option. I assumed that's what prompted the OP. So it is not "the correct answer".

Well, that depends on the type of account.

Also my bad because the OP already knew about right click, select
Compact from the folders context menu.

That is only in folders of email accounts.

Compact does not appear for folders in newsgroup accounts.

>
> I'm also using Linux, but with TB 52.7.0. Maybe Linux is the commonality here? Could Windows and Mac users confirm that they DO see this option? Could other Linux users comment?
>

I just tested TB 52.6.0 running in Ubuntu 18.04 beta using a Live
session from a USB drive.

Mail folder has Compact in the context menu, newsgroups do not.

Natu did not state which type of account the folder was under.

[WaltS48]

I also see Compact in the context menu for email folders, Blogs & News
Feed folders, but not newsgroups in TB 52.7.0 on Windows 10.

Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/52.7.0 ID:20180322145026 CSet:
76766b5f6de78dd2b6b930ef2b4331557a5f072f

[Good Guy]

On 08/04/2018 21:50, WaltS48 wrote:

Compact does not appear for folders in newsgroup accounts.

Newsgroups never had a Compact option.  However, the best way to compact newsgroup folders is to use the Repair option by going to:

Right-Click the folder >>  Properties  >> Repair Folder

This clears the folder and then re-downloads fresh posts.

The OP made very clear that he hasn't got the Right-Click >> Compact  so perhaps he is talking about something else because he also said:

In 52.6.0 compact does not show up in the individual folder menu, though I can compact all folders from the file menu.

So what is he talking about?  Emails or Newsgroups?

[Chris Ramsden]

Nope. Tried in Safe Mode (to rule out add-ons), and I have a compact option only in "Blogs & NewsFeeds". None in email (both POP ans IMAP), none in newsgroups.

Any other common factors? I'm using maildir, which makes me part of a tiny minority.
--
Chris

[Caver1]

I am using Ubuntu 16.04 and TB 52,7.0 and do have that option in my
right click menu.

--
Caver1

[Sjouke Burry]

Yep.(for mail, not fornews).XP sp3 tb17

[Caver1]

Why would you need to compact Newsgroup folders?

--
Caver1

[Natu]

On 04/08/2018 02:24 PM, Chris Ramsden wrote:

> On 08/04/18 21:59, WaltS48 wrote:
>> On 4/8/2018 4:05 PM, Chris Ramsden wrote:
>>> On 08/04/18 20:55, WaltS48 wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 4/8/18 3:31 PM, Caver1 wrote:
>>>>> On 04/05/2018 04:23 PM, Natu wrote:
>>>>>> I'm currently running Thunderbird 52.6.0 under beta release of
>>>>>> Ubuntu
>>>>>> 18.04.  In older versions of Ubuntu I could right click on a
>>>>>> folder and
>>>>>> select compact to compact just that folder.  In 52.6.0 compact
>>>>>> does not
>>>>>> show up in the individual folder menu, though I can compact all
>>>>>> folders
>>>>>> from the file menu.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Is there a way to compact just a single folder in 52.6.0?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thank You,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Natu
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>
>>
>>
>

> Nope. Tried in Safe Mode (to rule out add-ons), and I have a compact
> option only in "Blogs & NewsFeeds". None in email (both POP ans IMAP),
> none in newsgroups.
>
> Any other common factors? I'm using maildir, which makes me part of a
> tiny minority.

Yes, these are all mail folders on a Dovecot IMAP server.  They are in
maildir format, but I would think the format of the folders on the mail
server is handled transparency by Dovecot, and would be transparent to
the mail client.  This is an older release of Dovecot running under
CentOS 5.  I wonder if Thunderbird changed the way it compacts folders
and now relies on an IMAP command that is not supported by this older
IMAP server.

Thank you everyone for your answers.  I will look into it further.

Natu

[Chris]

Natu <incoming...@rjl.com> Wrote in message:

No, the choice between mbox and maildir is within Thunderbird. The
mail client is doesn't need to know anything about the storage
system on the server so long as messages can be transferred
according to the prevailing mail protocol.

My question to you would be whether you are using maildir or mbox
IN THUNDERBIRD?
--
Chris

[WaltS48]

I'm using mbox, but will test with maildir in a new profile tomorrow.

It appears Natu also uses the maildir storage format.

[Natu]

On 04/08/2018 05:28 PM, WaltS48 wrote:

> I'm using mbox, but will test with maildir in a new profile tomorrow.
>
> It appears Natu also uses the maildir storage format.
>

I'm pretty convinced at this time that my older IMAP server is not
supporting a feature that newer versions of Thunderbird require in order
to expunge individual folders.  I will look futher into this and post
back to this list again if I anything further comes up, but I'm guessing
that at this point that upgrading my IMAP server will solve the problem.

FYI to those who raised this issue, when you set MAILDIR vs MBOX format
in thunderbird, that is for local mail files managed by Thunderbird. 
When you use an IMAP server, that is configured by the administrator of
the IMAP server.  My IMAP server is setup to use MAILDIR and the file
system is created to use a larger number of smaller files (MDIR uses a
smaller number of larger files).   There are configuration commands in
my Dovecot configuration file that tell the IMAP server to use MAILDIR
format.  I have over 100 users on this IMAP server, so lots of tiny
files (1 per message).

Thank You,

Natu

[Chris Ramsden]

On 2018-04-09 01:28, WaltS48 wrote:

> I'm using mbox, but will test with maildir in a new profile tomorrow.
>
> It appears Natu also uses the maildir storage format.
>

Yeah, but in Thunderbird or in Dovecote? I can't believe what the server
does has any bearing on it. The server file system is invisible to the
email client. The data is transferred between server and client via POP
or IMAP. Compact is a local function that applies only to Thunderbird's
mail store and relates to how it deals with hiding deleted messages.

Thinking about it, compacting is probably irrelevant in maildir, because
each message has a discrete file. There's no monolithic mbox file that
needs to to be re-written excluding the deleted messages, which is what
compacting does.

Looking at my works Windows 10/ TB 52.7.0 system (a mix of maildir and
mbox), I do have "compact" in some email folders, and in "Blogs & News
Feeds". Looking closer, all the mbox accounts have "compact". None of
the maildir accounts have it. Local Folders uses mbox (and offers
"compact").

All my Thunderbirds are set to compact automatically. I can't remember
when I last felt a need to set it off manually.

My working hypothesis is that maildir-based accounts don't offer the
compact option because there's no benefit from doing it.
--
Chris

[Chris Ramsden]

On 2018-04-09 01:28, WaltS48 wrote:
>
> I'm using mbox, but will test with maildir in a new profile tomorrow.
>
> It appears Natu also uses the maildir storage format.
>
Yeah, but in Thunderbird or in Dovecote? I can't believe what the server
does has any bearing on it. The server file system is invisible to the
email client. The data is transferred between server and client via POP

or IMAP as text. Compact is a local function that applies only to

Thunderbird's mail store and relates to how it deals with hiding deleted
messages.

Thinking about it, compacting is probably irrelevant in maildir, because
each message has a discrete file. There's no monolithic mbox file that

needs to to be re-written to exclude the deleted messages, which is what

compacting does.

Looking at my works Windows 10/ TB 52.7.0 system (a mix of maildir and
mbox), I do have "compact" in some email folders, and in "Blogs & News

Feeds" and "Local Folders". Looking closer, all the mbox accounts have
"compact". None of the maildir accounts have it. My "Local Folders" uses
mbox.

All my Thunderbirds are set to compact automatically. I can't remember
when I last felt a need to set it off manually.

My working hypothesis is that maildir-based accounts don't offer the

compact option because there's no benefit obtained from doing it.
--
Chris

[Wayne]

On 4/9/2018 6:43 AM, Chris Ramsden wrote:
> My working hypothesis is that maildir-based accounts don't offer the
> compact option because there's no benefit obtained from doing it.

My understanding is compact does two things
a) reduces the size of an mbox, which primarily reduces disk space, not
applicable to maildir, and
b) reduces the size of the .msf index, which impacts the amount of
memory used for the folder

[Keith Nuttle]

While technically not different from what was said above, Compact
completely remove deleted post. When a message is deleted it is moved
to trash. When the trash is emptied. it is removed from the trash
folder, but is not removed from the file xxxxx. I suspect this means
that it is marked not to be shown in the xxxxx.msf file.

When you compact the folder, the deleted messages is removed from the
xxxxx. file and the index recreated.

[WaltS48]

<snip>

> My working hypothesis is that maildir-based accounts don't offer the
> compact option because there's no benefit from doing it.

I finished testing maildir in new profiles with TB 52.7.0 on Linux and
Windows and did not see "Compact" in the context menu for the Inbox folder.

I agree with your hypothesis, and Wayne points out in his post that
compacting is not applicable to the maildir storage type.

[Natu]

On 04/09/2018 04:45 AM, Keith Nuttle wrote:
> On 4/9/2018 7:13 AM, Wayne wrote:

> While technically not different from what was said above, Compact
> completely remove deleted post.  When a message is deleted it is moved
> to trash.  When the trash is emptied. it is removed from the trash
> folder, but is not removed from the file  xxxxx.  I suspect this means
> that it is marked not to be shown in the xxxxx.msf file.
>
> When you compact the folder, the deleted messages is removed from the
> xxxxx. file and the index recreated.

The default action in Thunderbird is to move the deleted message to
trash.  I set the option in thunderbird to leave the message in the same
folder and just mark it as deleted.  I can then undelete the message if
I choose to.  When I'm done working with the folder I then run compact
on it to remove any deleted messages.  Deleting messages which are
flagged as deleted is still a valid reason to compact a folder, even in
maildir format.  I believe there are also options in Thunderbird as well
as in the IMAP server to automatically delete the flagged as deleted
messages when you exit the IMAP session.  I prefer to do this manually.

It is definitely the case that with IMAP and POP  the internal format of
messages on the server is transparent to the client mail program, so
that shouldn't matter.  The client (thunderbird in this case) does not
know weather messages are stored in MAILDIR or MBOX format.

I believe though that IMAP defines an IMAP server command called EXPUNGE
which performs this function.  There are probably other sequences of
commands which may be able to accomplish the same thing.  I am guessing
that at some point thunderbird switched from using an older way of doing
this to using EXPUNGE and that older versions of IMAP servers don't have
this functionality implemented and that is why compact doesn't show up
in my folder.  I got this from reading bits and pieces that I searched
through goggle, though, I couldn't say that I was 100% certain, based on
what I read.  Dovecot documentation talks about the EXPUNGE function and
it being implemented in later versions.

Natu

[WaltS48]

On 4/5/18 4:23 PM, Natu wrote:
> I'm currently running Thunderbird 52.6.0 under beta release of Ubuntu
> 18.04.  In older versions of Ubuntu I could right click on a folder
> and select compact to compact just that folder.  In 52.6.0 compact
> does not show up in the individual folder menu, though I can compact
> all folders from the file menu.
>
> Is there a way to compact just a single folder in 52.6.0?
>
> Thank You,
>
> Natu
>
>

You may be interested in this wiki post. Last updated 28 August 2017.

https://wiki.mozilla.org/Thunderbird/Maildir

"*HOWEVER, note this is NOT full maildir in the sense that most people,
particularly linux users or mail administrators, know as maildir."*

[Tanstaafl]

On 4/9/2018, 7:45:44 AM, Keith Nuttle <keith_...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> While technically not different from what was said above, Compact
> completely remove deleted post.

It does much more than that.

> When a message is deleted it is moved to trash.

If you have TB configured to do this. You can also configure it to
delete it immediately.

TB can be configured to do one of three things when you delete a
message: Move it to a folder (default is Trash), Just mark it as deleted
(which doesn't move it to the Trash OR delete it, it just - marks it as
deleted requiring an Expunge action to actually delete it), or Remove it
immediately, which - removes (deletes) it immediately.

That said, I'm not sure (never tested to confirm) if the 'Move to Trash'
feature expunges it from the original folder immediately or not. I think
that it should, the same way it does when you move one manually using
the UI (drag/drop, or 'Move To' menu function).

> When the trash is emptied. it is removed from the trash folder, but
> is not removed from the file xxxxx. I suspect this means that it is
> marked not to be shown in the xxxxx.msf file.
>
> When you compact the folder, the deleted messages is removed from
> the xxxxx. file and the index recreated.

Expunging is what actually deletes the email from a folder in an account
that is configured to not delete messages immediately.

Compacting first (I think it does it first) perform an Expunge, then it
rebuilds the local MBOX file and .msf (index) files.

As has been pointed out, when using the maildir format locally, there is
nothing to rebuild, however, I'll wager that there is still an Expunge
option available if you have TB configured to Just mark it as deleted
(and possibly also when you have it set to Move to Trash).

[Chris Ilias]

On 2018-04-08 3:27 PM, Good Guy wrote:
> You can delete the .msf file for that particular folder and the FF will
> compact the folder automatically.  The only problem with this is that it
> also downloads/populates the folder again from the index.  This may not
> be suitable for everybody.

Deleting the MSF file does not compact the folder; it rebuilds the
message list. The messages marked as deleted will still be in the file. :)

--
Chris Ilias <http://ilias.ca>
Mailing list/Newsgroup moderator

[Keith Nuttle]

On 4/9/2018 10:43 AM, Tanstaafl wrote:
> That said, I'm not sure (never tested to confirm) if the 'Move to Trash'
> feature expunges it from the original folder immediately or not. I think
> that it should, the same way it does when you move one manually using
> the UI (drag/drop, or 'Move To' menu function).

..
You can see the action of the compact action on a folder. First check
the size of the appropratiate XXXXX. folder where you have deleted a lot
of messages. Then do a compact and recheck the size of the same
file. You will see the size of the XXXXX. file is reduced. For
something like the trash folder, this will can be significant if you
clean the Trash folder regularly, but don't compact the folder.

I did not check the above for files deleted by settings in the Account
settings, but I suspect it works the same whether you deleted the file
through the waste or delete it from the account settings.

However Thunderbird works, what ever the settings in Thunderbird, the
online mail system (webmail) may retain the deleted messages, until the
default retain limit is met, (delete after x days) or you physically go
to the web mail system and physically empty the trash.

[Natu]

On 04/09/2018 08:36 AM, Natu wrote:
> I believe though that IMAP defines an IMAP server command called EXPUNGE
> which performs this function.  There are probably other sequences of
> commands which may be able to accomplish the same thing.  I am guessing
> that at some point thunderbird switched from using an older way of doing
> this to using EXPUNGE and that older versions of IMAP servers don't have
> this functionality implemented and that is why compact doesn't show up
> in my folder.  I got this from reading bits and pieces that I searched
> through goggle, though, I couldn't say that I was 100% certain, based on
> what I read.  Dovecot documentation talks about the EXPUNGE function and
> it being implemented in later versions.

While my theory about why the compact command does not show on my folder
menu was wrong.   First, I've confirmed that my IMAP server does
implement an expunge comand.  I can manually connect to my IMAP server
using openssl and login, select a folder and then expunge (remove
deleted messages) from only that folder.

I've created a test account on GMAIL and configured it as an IMAP folder
in Thunderbird 52.6.0.  With Gmail's imap server, the compact command
shows up in the folder menu.  With my own Dovecot IMAP server it does
not.  I don't know why.  Could still be solved by and upgrade, but I
don't know the reason.

Under thunderbird 52.7.0 under Ubuntu 14.04 compact command shows up in
folder menu when using my own IMAP server.  So maybe this is a bug in
52.6.0 which is the current version in the Ubuntu 18.04 beta release. 
Not sure why the 18.04 beta release of Ubuntu would have an older
version of thunderbird than the 14.04 lts release, but it does.  So
maybe this is a Ubuntu issue, that will hopefully get resolved before
the final release this month.

[Tanstaafl]

On Mon Apr 09 2018 13:32:53 GMT-0400 (Eastern Standard Time), Keith

Nuttle <keith_...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> On 4/9/2018 10:43 AM, Tanstaafl wrote:

>> That said, I'm not sure (never tested to confirm) if the 'Move to Trash'
>> feature expunges it from the original folder immediately or not. I think
>> that it should, the same way it does when you move one manually using
>> the UI (drag/drop, or 'Move To' menu function).

> You can see the action of the compact action on a folder.

I was talking about EXPUNGE, not COMPACT.

Two different things.

[Wolf K]

On 2018-04-09 13:45, Tanstaafl wrote:
> On Mon Apr 09 2018 13:32:53 GMT-0400 (Eastern Standard Time), Keith
> Nuttle <keith_...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>> On 4/9/2018 10:43 AM, Tanstaafl wrote:
>>> That said, I'm not sure (never tested to confirm) if the 'Move to Trash'
>>> feature expunges it from the original folder immediately or not. I think
>>> that it should, the same way it does when you move one manually using
>>> the UI (drag/drop, or 'Move To' menu function).

Move and delete do not actually remove the item. They are marked Do Not
Display, is all.

>> You can see the action of the compact action on a folder.
>
> I was talking about EXPUNGE, not COMPACT.
>
> Two different things.

Actually, to expunge a Moved or Deleted item, you must Compact that
folder (which is actually a file).


--
Wolf K
kirkwood40.blogspot.com
"The next conference for the time travel design team will be held two
weeks ago."