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[ACTION] Localizing Firefox for iOS
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Jeff Beatty
Mar 6, 2015, 4:17:02 PM3/6/15
to dev-l10n
Hi everyone,
*tl:dr; You can now localize Firefox on iOS, below are the resources and
l10n plan for v1. Firefox on iOS is part of Mozilla's 2015 goal to
increase the Firefox desktop userbase globally. It will launch with the
Spring Release. Localization is opt-in (file a bug & CC me & flod), but
restricted to what iOS supports**[1]**. This l10n process is new and
needs your feedback to improve it.*
I'm excited to announce that Firefox on iOS is ready for localization!
Firefox is coming to iOS as a part of the spring release efforts. Many
Firefox desktop and Apple iOS users around the world will be able to
sync their browsing experience across Apple devices more freely than
ever before. Mozilla hopes to win back Apple iOS users to Firefox by
making synced browsing easier for them. This is a strong component to
Mozilla's strategy to increase the Firefox desktop userbase worldwide.
Here are the details behind the Firefox on iOS localization effort:
1) Firefox for iOS's v1 release plan coordinates with the Spring Release
plan described in earlier emails. Release plans for adding Firefox for
iOS to the 6 week train release schedule have not been finalized.
2) Because this is the first release of the product, feature development
has been ongoing and likely will be ongoing until the very last moment.
In this way, the l10n experience for iOS is similar to the experience
localizing mozilla-central: string changes allowed until the final
moment. Development will still be active and you can be sure to see some
string changes every Friday throughout March and April.
3) The iOS localization ecosystem is quite strict and we're still
learning what is possible.
Because the timing is quick to make a high-quality localized product for
users, we are only able to ship localizations of Firefox on iOS in the
languages that iOS itself is localized into, which our research has
shown to be 31 languages[1]. After v1 of Firefox on iOS, we will begin
exploring the new possibilities that iOS 8 creates with its new language
and region settings.
4) We want to invite all 31 locales to participate, but this is strictly
an opt-in project. If you would like to localize Firefox for iOS, simply
file a bug for your locale component and CC me and flod. We will set up
your locale's string directory in SVN and make sure it appears on the
webdashboard[2] (listed as "Firefox for iOS" in the "External Web
Projects status"). We will also manage your "sign-off" for v1 through
that bug.
5) Firefox on iOS uses a different file format than what you are already
used to called XLIFF. No need to fear, however, because it is XML-based
and we have written a guide for translating strings in raw XLIFF files
[3]. If you are localizing Firefox on iOS in Pootle, there will be no
difference between translating strings for this product and other
products in Pootle. Axel will also follow this email with an alternative
way to localize the XLIFF file.
6) We have an alternativedashboard set up for you to follow your
localization progress[4]. As you can see from the locales that are
already listed, the amount of strings to translate is very low. I,
personally, performed a translation of the full file (in the raw XLIFF
file too) into Spanish and tracked my time. Even following the
documentation for translating the raw XLIFF file, completing the project
only took 30 minutes.
7) Finally, testing. Apple's developer testing infrastructure makes
large-scale testing difficult. There is an iOS tool called TestFlight
that some have been able to use for functional testing of the app.
Unfortunately, it requires you to be a registered member of the iOS
Developer Program, as well as have an iOS device to use it. We're
working with the dogfooding team to learn how we can get localizers with
iOS devices registered to use TestFlight for their l10n testing. In the
mean time, if you own a Mac, you are welcome to test your localization
using XCode and the iOS simulator it provide. Details on that process
can be found here[5] but the documentation is still in progress.
Finally, if neither option is available to you, we can provide you with
screenshots of your localization. It's not ideal, but it's a way of
being able to test your localization.
There you have it, the plan for localizing v1 of Firefox on iOS. I
welcome your feedback and suggestions as we navigate through this
process together. If you would like to localize Firefox for iOS, please
file a bug and CC me and flod to it.
Thank you,
Jeff
[1] http://www.ibabbleon.com/iOS-Language-Codes-ISO-639.html
[2] https://l10n.mozilla-community.org/
<https://l10n.mozilla-community.org/webdashboard/>webdashboard/
<https://l10n.mozilla-community.org/webdashboard/>
[3]
https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Mozilla/Localization/Localizing_XLIFF_files
[4]
https://l10n.mozilla-community.org/~flod/webstatus/?product=firefox-ios
<https://l10n.mozilla-community.org/%7Eflod/webstatus/?product=firefox-ios>
[5]
https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Mozilla/Localization/L10n_testing_with_xcode
--
*Jeff Beatty*
Localization Engineer
@mozilla_l10n <http://twitter.com/mozilla_l10n>
801.367.3763
*tl:dr; You can now localize Firefox on iOS, below are the resources and
l10n plan for v1. Firefox on iOS is part of Mozilla's 2015 goal to
increase the Firefox desktop userbase globally. It will launch with the
Spring Release. Localization is opt-in (file a bug & CC me & flod), but
restricted to what iOS supports**[1]**. This l10n process is new and
needs your feedback to improve it.*
I'm excited to announce that Firefox on iOS is ready for localization!
Firefox is coming to iOS as a part of the spring release efforts. Many
Firefox desktop and Apple iOS users around the world will be able to
sync their browsing experience across Apple devices more freely than
ever before. Mozilla hopes to win back Apple iOS users to Firefox by
making synced browsing easier for them. This is a strong component to
Mozilla's strategy to increase the Firefox desktop userbase worldwide.
Here are the details behind the Firefox on iOS localization effort:
1) Firefox for iOS's v1 release plan coordinates with the Spring Release
plan described in earlier emails. Release plans for adding Firefox for
iOS to the 6 week train release schedule have not been finalized.
2) Because this is the first release of the product, feature development
has been ongoing and likely will be ongoing until the very last moment.
In this way, the l10n experience for iOS is similar to the experience
localizing mozilla-central: string changes allowed until the final
moment. Development will still be active and you can be sure to see some
string changes every Friday throughout March and April.
3) The iOS localization ecosystem is quite strict and we're still
learning what is possible.
Because the timing is quick to make a high-quality localized product for
users, we are only able to ship localizations of Firefox on iOS in the
languages that iOS itself is localized into, which our research has
shown to be 31 languages[1]. After v1 of Firefox on iOS, we will begin
exploring the new possibilities that iOS 8 creates with its new language
and region settings.
4) We want to invite all 31 locales to participate, but this is strictly
an opt-in project. If you would like to localize Firefox for iOS, simply
file a bug for your locale component and CC me and flod. We will set up
your locale's string directory in SVN and make sure it appears on the
webdashboard[2] (listed as "Firefox for iOS" in the "External Web
Projects status"). We will also manage your "sign-off" for v1 through
that bug.
5) Firefox on iOS uses a different file format than what you are already
used to called XLIFF. No need to fear, however, because it is XML-based
and we have written a guide for translating strings in raw XLIFF files
[3]. If you are localizing Firefox on iOS in Pootle, there will be no
difference between translating strings for this product and other
products in Pootle. Axel will also follow this email with an alternative
way to localize the XLIFF file.
6) We have an alternativedashboard set up for you to follow your
localization progress[4]. As you can see from the locales that are
already listed, the amount of strings to translate is very low. I,
personally, performed a translation of the full file (in the raw XLIFF
file too) into Spanish and tracked my time. Even following the
documentation for translating the raw XLIFF file, completing the project
only took 30 minutes.
7) Finally, testing. Apple's developer testing infrastructure makes
large-scale testing difficult. There is an iOS tool called TestFlight
that some have been able to use for functional testing of the app.
Unfortunately, it requires you to be a registered member of the iOS
Developer Program, as well as have an iOS device to use it. We're
working with the dogfooding team to learn how we can get localizers with
iOS devices registered to use TestFlight for their l10n testing. In the
mean time, if you own a Mac, you are welcome to test your localization
using XCode and the iOS simulator it provide. Details on that process
can be found here[5] but the documentation is still in progress.
Finally, if neither option is available to you, we can provide you with
screenshots of your localization. It's not ideal, but it's a way of
being able to test your localization.
There you have it, the plan for localizing v1 of Firefox on iOS. I
welcome your feedback and suggestions as we navigate through this
process together. If you would like to localize Firefox for iOS, please
file a bug and CC me and flod to it.
Thank you,
Jeff
[1] http://www.ibabbleon.com/iOS-Language-Codes-ISO-639.html
[2] https://l10n.mozilla-community.org/
<https://l10n.mozilla-community.org/webdashboard/>webdashboard/
<https://l10n.mozilla-community.org/webdashboard/>
[3]
https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Mozilla/Localization/Localizing_XLIFF_files
[4]
https://l10n.mozilla-community.org/~flod/webstatus/?product=firefox-ios
<https://l10n.mozilla-community.org/%7Eflod/webstatus/?product=firefox-ios>
[5]
https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Mozilla/Localization/L10n_testing_with_xcode
--
*Jeff Beatty*
Localization Engineer
@mozilla_l10n <http://twitter.com/mozilla_l10n>
801.367.3763
Jeff Beatty
Mar 6, 2015, 4:24:34 PM3/6/15
to dev-l10n
Hi all,
Sorry for the spam.
One last thing I really want to emphasize: this is a dynamic process
that we're working to improve. Some details are still being worked out,
but we likely won't be able to work them out until we begin
localization. I will be quick to communicate on this thread when there
are updates to the schedule or new strings available for translation. I
will also be quick to answer questions, accept criticisms, and
collaborate to improve the process for future versions of the product.
Thanks,
Jeff
El 3/6/15 a las 2:16 PM, Jeff Beatty escibió:
Sorry for the spam.
One last thing I really want to emphasize: this is a dynamic process
that we're working to improve. Some details are still being worked out,
but we likely won't be able to work them out until we begin
localization. I will be quick to communicate on this thread when there
are updates to the schedule or new strings available for translation. I
will also be quick to answer questions, accept criticisms, and
collaborate to improve the process for future versions of the product.
Thanks,
Jeff
El 3/6/15 a las 2:16 PM, Jeff Beatty escibió:
Stefan Arentz
Mar 6, 2015, 5:03:43 PM3/6/15
to Jeff Beatty, dev-l10n
On Fri, Mar 6, 2015 at 4:16 PM, Jeff Beatty <jbe...@mozilla.com> wrote:
7) Finally, testing. Apple's developer testing infrastructure makes
> large-scale testing difficult. There is an iOS tool called TestFlight that
> some have been able to use for functional testing of the app.
> Unfortunately, it requires you to be a registered member of the iOS
> Developer Program, as well as have an iOS device to use it. We're working
> with the dogfooding team to learn how we can get localizers with iOS
> devices registered to use TestFlight for their l10n testing. In the mean
> time, if you own a Mac, you are welcome to test your localization using
> XCode and the iOS simulator it provide. Details on that process can be
> found here[5] but the documentation is still in progress. Finally, if
> neither option is available to you, we can provide you with screenshots of
> your localization. It's not ideal, but it's a way of being able to test
> your localization.
>
Hi everyone,
7) Finally, testing. Apple's developer testing infrastructure makes
> large-scale testing difficult. There is an iOS tool called TestFlight that
> some have been able to use for functional testing of the app.
> Unfortunately, it requires you to be a registered member of the iOS
> Developer Program, as well as have an iOS device to use it. We're working
> with the dogfooding team to learn how we can get localizers with iOS
> devices registered to use TestFlight for their l10n testing. In the mean
> time, if you own a Mac, you are welcome to test your localization using
> XCode and the iOS simulator it provide. Details on that process can be
> found here[5] but the documentation is still in progress. Finally, if
> neither option is available to you, we can provide you with screenshots of
> your localization. It's not ideal, but it's a way of being able to test
> your localization.
>
Thanks Jeff!
Quick intro and a followup :-)
I'm one of people working on Firefox for iOS and I'm on this list to
support you. So if you have any questions about this project in the context
of localization, please ask here and I'll do my best to answer. For more
general questions about this project, join us on the #mobile IRC channel or
the mobile-fi...@mozilla.org mailing list.
Regarding TestFlight: We are actually in the process of setting up a
Mozilla TestFlight account so that we can distribute builds that you can
run on your devices. You do not have to be a member of Apple's Developer
Program for this. All you need is an Apple ID, which you most likely
already have if you own an iOS device. We are not setup just yet but when
we are we will email the list here to invite localizers to be part of our
TestFlight distribution.
In the meantime, as Jeff already mentioned, you can very easily run most of
the app in the Simulator. Let us know if you have questions about that.
Instructions are in the README of the project at
https://github.com/mozilla/firefox-ios/
S.
Fjoerfoks
Mar 6, 2015, 5:32:45 PM3/6/15
to Jeff Beatty, dev-l10n
Hi Jeff,
Can we announce this in public?
Wim
Op 6 mrt. 2015 22:17 schreef "Jeff Beatty" <jbe...@mozilla.com>:
> dev-l10n mailing list
> dev-...@lists.mozilla.org
> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-l10n
>
Can we announce this in public?
Wim
Op 6 mrt. 2015 22:17 schreef "Jeff Beatty" <jbe...@mozilla.com>:
> 7) Finally, testing. Apple's developer testing infrastructure makes
> large-scale testing difficult. There is an iOS tool called TestFlight that
> some have been able to use for functional testing of the app.
> Unfortunately, it requires you to be a registered member of the iOS
> Developer Program, as well as have an iOS device to use it. We're working
> with the dogfooding team to learn how we can get localizers with iOS
> devices registered to use TestFlight for their l10n testing. In the mean
> time, if you own a Mac, you are welcome to test your localization using
> XCode and the iOS simulator it provide. Details on that process can be
> found here[5] but the documentation is still in progress. Finally, if
> neither option is available to you, we can provide you with screenshots of
> your localization. It's not ideal, but it's a way of being able to test
> your localization.
>
> large-scale testing difficult. There is an iOS tool called TestFlight that
> some have been able to use for functional testing of the app.
> Unfortunately, it requires you to be a registered member of the iOS
> Developer Program, as well as have an iOS device to use it. We're working
> with the dogfooding team to learn how we can get localizers with iOS
> devices registered to use TestFlight for their l10n testing. In the mean
> time, if you own a Mac, you are welcome to test your localization using
> XCode and the iOS simulator it provide. Details on that process can be
> found here[5] but the documentation is still in progress. Finally, if
> neither option is available to you, we can provide you with screenshots of
> your localization. It's not ideal, but it's a way of being able to test
> your localization.
>
> There you have it, the plan for localizing v1 of Firefox on iOS. I welcome
> your feedback and suggestions as we navigate through this process together.
> If you would like to localize Firefox for iOS, please file a bug and CC me
> and flod to it.
>
> Thank you,
> Jeff
>
>
> [1] http://www.ibabbleon.com/iOS-Language-Codes-ISO-639.html
> [2] https://l10n.mozilla-community.org/ <https://l10n.mozilla-
> community.org/webdashboard/>webdashboard/ <https://l10n.mozilla-
> community.org/webdashboard/>
> [3] https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Mozilla/
> Localization/Localizing_XLIFF_files
> [4] https://l10n.mozilla-community.org/~flod/webstatus/
> ?product=firefox-ios <https://l10n.mozilla-community.org/%7Eflod/
> webstatus/?product=firefox-ios>
> [5] https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Mozilla/
> Localization/L10n_testing_with_xcode
> --
> *Jeff Beatty*
> Localization Engineer
> @mozilla_l10n <http://twitter.com/mozilla_l10n>
> 801.367.3763
> _______________________________________________
> your feedback and suggestions as we navigate through this process together.
> If you would like to localize Firefox for iOS, please file a bug and CC me
> and flod to it.
>
> Thank you,
> Jeff
>
>
> [1] http://www.ibabbleon.com/iOS-Language-Codes-ISO-639.html
> [2] https://l10n.mozilla-community.org/ <https://l10n.mozilla-
> community.org/webdashboard/>webdashboard/ <https://l10n.mozilla-
> community.org/webdashboard/>
> [3] https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Mozilla/
> Localization/Localizing_XLIFF_files
> [4] https://l10n.mozilla-community.org/~flod/webstatus/
> ?product=firefox-ios <https://l10n.mozilla-community.org/%7Eflod/
> webstatus/?product=firefox-ios>
> [5] https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Mozilla/
> Localization/L10n_testing_with_xcode
> --
> *Jeff Beatty*
> Localization Engineer
> @mozilla_l10n <http://twitter.com/mozilla_l10n>
> 801.367.3763
> dev-l10n mailing list
> dev-...@lists.mozilla.org
> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-l10n
>
Michael Wolf
Mar 6, 2015, 5:51:02 PM3/6/15
to
Jeff Beatty schrieb:
> 4) We want to invite all 31 locales to participate, but this is strictly
> an opt-in project. If you would like to localize Firefox for iOS, simply
> file a bug for your locale component and CC me and flod. We will set up
> your locale's string directory in SVN and make sure it appears on the
> webdashboard[2] (listed as "Firefox for iOS" in the "External Web
> Projects status"). We will also manage your "sign-off" for v1 through
> that bug.
Hello Jeff,
I'm be interested in translating Firefox for iOS into Upper Sorbian and
Lower Sorbian. If I understand the text on page
http://www.ibabbleon.com/iOS-Language-Codes-ISO-639.html correctly,
every locale is possible, also these that are new for iOS. Do you know
if three characters locales are possible as well?
Thanks and kind regards,
Michael
> 4) We want to invite all 31 locales to participate, but this is strictly
> an opt-in project. If you would like to localize Firefox for iOS, simply
> file a bug for your locale component and CC me and flod. We will set up
> your locale's string directory in SVN and make sure it appears on the
> webdashboard[2] (listed as "Firefox for iOS" in the "External Web
> Projects status"). We will also manage your "sign-off" for v1 through
> that bug.
I'm be interested in translating Firefox for iOS into Upper Sorbian and
Lower Sorbian. If I understand the text on page
http://www.ibabbleon.com/iOS-Language-Codes-ISO-639.html correctly,
every locale is possible, also these that are new for iOS. Do you know
if three characters locales are possible as well?
Thanks and kind regards,
Michael
Axel Hecht
Mar 6, 2015, 5:55:07 PM3/6/15
to
The devil has details.
That we're doing "something" is public knowledge, https://blog.mozilla.org/press/2014/12/designing-a-firefox-experience-for-ios/.
Anything beyond that is probably as public as the meeting notes for the Monday project meeting go. There's also https://twitter.com/FenneciOS as an official update source.
To which extent we should push public messages on the timing, I don't know.
I'll try to remember to ask in next Wednesday "Northern Spring Release" meeting.
(Yes, we pitched those names to the group, and there's empathy)
Axel
That we're doing "something" is public knowledge, https://blog.mozilla.org/press/2014/12/designing-a-firefox-experience-for-ios/.
Anything beyond that is probably as public as the meeting notes for the Monday project meeting go. There's also https://twitter.com/FenneciOS as an official update source.
To which extent we should push public messages on the timing, I don't know.
I'll try to remember to ask in next Wednesday "Northern Spring Release" meeting.
(Yes, we pitched those names to the group, and there's empathy)
Axel
Martin Jernberg
Mar 6, 2015, 6:40:12 PM3/6/15
to Axel Hecht, dev-...@lists.mozilla.org
Cool i am Swedish L10n guy for Firefox for Android, if you need a
Swedish Localizer / betatester for the iOS version aswell in the
future just ping me at bit...@reimu.nl and i will try to help :)
also cool will look at that tool when i have some spare time can
betatest on my workphone aswell iPhone 4S, but don't have any Mac to
try out stuff with Xcode :(
//bittin
Swedish Localizer / betatester for the iOS version aswell in the
future just ping me at bit...@reimu.nl and i will try to help :)
also cool will look at that tool when i have some spare time can
betatest on my workphone aswell iPhone 4S, but don't have any Mac to
try out stuff with Xcode :(
//bittin
Michael Bauer
Mar 6, 2015, 7:26:15 PM3/6/15
to Jeff Beatty, dev-l10n
Hi Jeff
Thanks for the interesting news!
Sgrìobh Jeff Beatty na leanas 06/03/2015 aig 21:16:
It's not on the list (chance would be a fine thing!) but I have faith
that in the long run, Mozilla will find a way. I presume it will come to
Locamotion - is the best thing to do to just work there but not file a
bug just now?
methods, didn't know they relaxed the locales too. This has long been a
major annoyance for a lot of locales.
hands on an iOS device for testing before too long too. Just as a
thought, if this is a one-time only requirement for a locale, perhaps a
physical device could be acquired and sent on loan to locale leaders?
Just a thought.
Just a question in passing, will this also (ultimately) aim for OSX or
is it explicitly only iOS, ever?
Michael
--
*Akerbeltz <http://www.faclair.com/>*
Goireasan Gàidhlig air an lìon
Fòn: +44-141-946 4437
Facs: +44-141-945 2701
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<http://www.iGaidhlig.net/>
Thanks for the interesting news!
Sgrìobh Jeff Beatty na leanas 06/03/2015 aig 21:16:
> Hi everyone,
>
> *tl:dr; You can now localize Firefox on iOS, below are the resources
> and l10n plan for v1. Firefox on iOS is part of Mozilla's 2015 goal to
> increase the Firefox desktop userbase globally. It will launch with
> the Spring Release. Localization is opt-in (file a bug & CC me &
> flod), but restricted to what iOS supports**[1]**. This l10n process
> is new and needs your feedback to improve it.*
I'd like to start maintaining translation fo iOS straight away for gd.
>
> *tl:dr; You can now localize Firefox on iOS, below are the resources
> and l10n plan for v1. Firefox on iOS is part of Mozilla's 2015 goal to
> increase the Firefox desktop userbase globally. It will launch with
> the Spring Release. Localization is opt-in (file a bug & CC me &
> flod), but restricted to what iOS supports**[1]**. This l10n process
> is new and needs your feedback to improve it.*
It's not on the list (chance would be a fine thing!) but I have faith
that in the long run, Mozilla will find a way. I presume it will come to
Locamotion - is the best thing to do to just work there but not file a
bug just now?
>
> 3) The iOS localization ecosystem is quite strict and we're still
> learning what is possible.
> Because the timing is quick to make a high-quality localized product
> for users, we are only able to ship localizations of Firefox on iOS in
> the languages that iOS itself is localized into, which our research
> has shown to be 31 languages[1]. After v1 of Firefox on iOS, we will
> begin exploring the new possibilities that iOS 8 creates with its new
> language and region settings.
Goodness, cracks in Fort Knox, I knew they're relaxed 3rd party entry
> 3) The iOS localization ecosystem is quite strict and we're still
> learning what is possible.
> Because the timing is quick to make a high-quality localized product
> for users, we are only able to ship localizations of Firefox on iOS in
> the languages that iOS itself is localized into, which our research
> has shown to be 31 languages[1]. After v1 of Firefox on iOS, we will
> begin exploring the new possibilities that iOS 8 creates with its new
> language and region settings.
methods, didn't know they relaxed the locales too. This has long been a
major annoyance for a lot of locales.
>
> 7) Finally, testing. Apple's developer testing infrastructure makes
> large-scale testing difficult. There is an iOS tool called TestFlight
> that some have been able to use for functional testing of the app.
> Unfortunately, it requires you to be a registered member of the iOS
> Developer Program, as well as have an iOS device to use it. We're
> working with the dogfooding team to learn how we can get localizers
> with iOS devices registered to use TestFlight for their l10n testing.
> In the mean time, if you own a Mac, you are welcome to test your
> localization using XCode and the iOS simulator it provide. Details on
> that process can be found here[5] but the documentation is still in
> progress. Finally, if neither option is available to you, we can
> provide you with screenshots of your localization. It's not ideal, but
> it's a way of being able to test your localization.
Mmm ok, I have a Mac for testing and I probably will have to get my
> 7) Finally, testing. Apple's developer testing infrastructure makes
> large-scale testing difficult. There is an iOS tool called TestFlight
> that some have been able to use for functional testing of the app.
> Unfortunately, it requires you to be a registered member of the iOS
> Developer Program, as well as have an iOS device to use it. We're
> working with the dogfooding team to learn how we can get localizers
> with iOS devices registered to use TestFlight for their l10n testing.
> In the mean time, if you own a Mac, you are welcome to test your
> localization using XCode and the iOS simulator it provide. Details on
> that process can be found here[5] but the documentation is still in
> progress. Finally, if neither option is available to you, we can
> provide you with screenshots of your localization. It's not ideal, but
> it's a way of being able to test your localization.
hands on an iOS device for testing before too long too. Just as a
thought, if this is a one-time only requirement for a locale, perhaps a
physical device could be acquired and sent on loan to locale leaders?
Just a thought.
Just a question in passing, will this also (ultimately) aim for OSX or
is it explicitly only iOS, ever?
Michael
--
*Akerbeltz <http://www.faclair.com/>*
Goireasan Gàidhlig air an lìon
Fòn: +44-141-946 4437
Facs: +44-141-945 2701
*Tha Gàidhlig aig a' choimpiutair agad, siuthad, feuch e!*
Iomadh rud eadar prògraman oifis, brabhsairean, predictive texting,
geamannan is mòran a bharrachd. Tadhail oirnn aig www.iGàidhlig.net
<http://www.iGaidhlig.net/>
Kim Ludvigsen
Mar 7, 2015, 4:33:58 AM3/7/15
to
Den 07-03-2015 kl. 05:03 skrev Stefan Arentz:
>
> I'm one of people working on Firefox for iOS and I'm on this list to
> support you. So if you have any questions about this project in the context
> of localization, please ask here and I'll do my best to answer.
I have a couple of questions:
>
> I'm one of people working on Firefox for iOS and I'm on this list to
> support you. So if you have any questions about this project in the context
> of localization, please ask here and I'll do my best to answer.
String wise, is this version very different from the Android one?
Does any of the strings require knowledge of iOS devices? Or to put it
another way: Are there any device related strings?
I am not sure any of us in the Danish team have an iThing, so I need to
know if we have to try to find ourselves an iOS guy.
--
Kim Ludvigsen
Jeff Beatty
Mar 7, 2015, 12:12:09 PM3/7/15
to dev-...@lists.mozilla.org
Having looked at the strings, I would say that they are very much
"Mozilla Firefox" strings and not specific to one OS over another.
I would say that ease of testing would be the only reason to seek out a
new localizer with Apple devices. We can, however, help provide l10n
teams with testing through taking and sending screenshots.
El 3/7/15 a las 2:34 AM, Kim Ludvigsen escibió:
"Mozilla Firefox" strings and not specific to one OS over another.
I would say that ease of testing would be the only reason to seek out a
new localizer with Apple devices. We can, however, help provide l10n
teams with testing through taking and sending screenshots.
El 3/7/15 a las 2:34 AM, Kim Ludvigsen escibió:
Jeff Beatty
Mar 7, 2015, 12:18:21 PM3/7/15
to fi...@akerbeltz.org, dev-l10n
El 3/6/15 a las 5:24 PM, Michael Bauer escibió:
> Hi Jeff
>
> Thanks for the interesting news!
>
> Sgrìobh Jeff Beatty na leanas 06/03/2015 aig 21:16:
>> Hi everyone,
>>
>> *tl:dr; You can now localize Firefox on iOS, below are the resources
>> and l10n plan for v1. Firefox on iOS is part of Mozilla's 2015 goal
>> to increase the Firefox desktop userbase globally. It will launch
>> with the Spring Release. Localization is opt-in (file a bug & CC me &
>> flod), but restricted to what iOS supports**[1]**. This l10n process
>> is new and needs your feedback to improve it.*
> I'd like to start maintaining translation fo iOS straight away for gd.
> It's not on the list (chance would be a fine thing!) but I have faith
> that in the long run, Mozilla will find a way. I presume it will come
> to Locamotion - is the best thing to do to just work there but not
> file a bug just now?
I would ask you to still file the bug. The bugs help us to have a high
>
> Thanks for the interesting news!
>
> Sgrìobh Jeff Beatty na leanas 06/03/2015 aig 21:16:
>> Hi everyone,
>>
>> *tl:dr; You can now localize Firefox on iOS, below are the resources
>> and l10n plan for v1. Firefox on iOS is part of Mozilla's 2015 goal
>> to increase the Firefox desktop userbase globally. It will launch
>> with the Spring Release. Localization is opt-in (file a bug & CC me &
>> flod), but restricted to what iOS supports**[1]**. This l10n process
>> is new and needs your feedback to improve it.*
> I'd like to start maintaining translation fo iOS straight away for gd.
> It's not on the list (chance would be a fine thing!) but I have faith
> that in the long run, Mozilla will find a way. I presume it will come
> to Locamotion - is the best thing to do to just work there but not
> file a bug just now?
level view of which locales are actively localizing the project, which
we've been able to ship, and which are waiting for us to find a way to
ship their locale (i.e., the measured demand for extended l10n support).
Your right, there is a Pootle project currently set up. The en-US base
needs to be updated with the latest changes, but we can do that and
enable your locale once we see the bug pop up.
>>
>> 3) The iOS localization ecosystem is quite strict and we're still
>> learning what is possible.
>> Because the timing is quick to make a high-quality localized product
>> for users, we are only able to ship localizations of Firefox on iOS
>> in the languages that iOS itself is localized into, which our
>> research has shown to be 31 languages[1]. After v1 of Firefox on iOS,
>> we will begin exploring the new possibilities that iOS 8 creates with
>> its new language and region settings.
> Goodness, cracks in Fort Knox, I knew they're relaxed 3rd party entry
> methods, didn't know they relaxed the locales too. This has long been
> a major annoyance for a lot of locales.
That's to be certain :-)
>> 3) The iOS localization ecosystem is quite strict and we're still
>> learning what is possible.
>> Because the timing is quick to make a high-quality localized product
>> for users, we are only able to ship localizations of Firefox on iOS
>> in the languages that iOS itself is localized into, which our
>> research has shown to be 31 languages[1]. After v1 of Firefox on iOS,
>> we will begin exploring the new possibilities that iOS 8 creates with
>> its new language and region settings.
> Goodness, cracks in Fort Knox, I knew they're relaxed 3rd party entry
> methods, didn't know they relaxed the locales too. This has long been
> a major annoyance for a lot of locales.
>>
>> 7) Finally, testing. Apple's developer testing infrastructure makes
>> large-scale testing difficult. There is an iOS tool called TestFlight
>> that some have been able to use for functional testing of the app.
>> Unfortunately, it requires you to be a registered member of the iOS
>> Developer Program, as well as have an iOS device to use it. We're
>> working with the dogfooding team to learn how we can get localizers
>> with iOS devices registered to use TestFlight for their l10n testing.
>> In the mean time, if you own a Mac, you are welcome to test your
>> localization using XCode and the iOS simulator it provide. Details on
>> that process can be found here[5] but the documentation is still in
>> progress. Finally, if neither option is available to you, we can
>> provide you with screenshots of your localization. It's not ideal,
>> but it's a way of being able to test your localization.
> Mmm ok, I have a Mac for testing and I probably will have to get my
> hands on an iOS device for testing before too long too. Just as a
> thought, if this is a one-time only requirement for a locale, perhaps
> a physical device could be acquired and sent on loan to locale
> leaders? Just a thought.
>
The iOS simulator is actually really great! If you have a Mac, you can
>> 7) Finally, testing. Apple's developer testing infrastructure makes
>> large-scale testing difficult. There is an iOS tool called TestFlight
>> that some have been able to use for functional testing of the app.
>> Unfortunately, it requires you to be a registered member of the iOS
>> Developer Program, as well as have an iOS device to use it. We're
>> working with the dogfooding team to learn how we can get localizers
>> with iOS devices registered to use TestFlight for their l10n testing.
>> In the mean time, if you own a Mac, you are welcome to test your
>> localization using XCode and the iOS simulator it provide. Details on
>> that process can be found here[5] but the documentation is still in
>> progress. Finally, if neither option is available to you, we can
>> provide you with screenshots of your localization. It's not ideal,
>> but it's a way of being able to test your localization.
> Mmm ok, I have a Mac for testing and I probably will have to get my
> hands on an iOS device for testing before too long too. Just as a
> thought, if this is a one-time only requirement for a locale, perhaps
> a physical device could be acquired and sent on loan to locale
> leaders? Just a thought.
>
download Xcode for free through the App store and follow the
documentation instructions we've included.
As for devices, that has been a difficult discussion and we've had to
come up with scrappy solutions. Where Android devices are getting more
and more cost effective, Apple devices still remain in the high-end cost
area.
> Just a question in passing, will this also (ultimately) aim for OSX or
> is it explicitly only iOS, ever?
The OSX version is Firefox desktop ;-)
> is it explicitly only iOS, ever?
Thanks,
Jeff
>
> Michael
>
> --
> *Akerbeltz <http://www.faclair.com/>*
> Goireasan Gàidhlig air an lìon
> Fòn: +44-141-946 4437
> Facs: +44-141-945 2701
>
> *Tha Gàidhlig aig a' choimpiutair agad, siuthad, feuch e!*
> Iomadh rud eadar prògraman oifis, brabhsairean, predictive texting,
> geamannan is mòran a bharrachd. Tadhail oirnn aig www.iGàidhlig.net
> <http://www.iGaidhlig.net/>
> Michael
>
> --
> *Akerbeltz <http://www.faclair.com/>*
> Goireasan Gàidhlig air an lìon
> Fòn: +44-141-946 4437
> Facs: +44-141-945 2701
>
> *Tha Gàidhlig aig a' choimpiutair agad, siuthad, feuch e!*
> Iomadh rud eadar prògraman oifis, brabhsairean, predictive texting,
> geamannan is mòran a bharrachd. Tadhail oirnn aig www.iGàidhlig.net
> <http://www.iGaidhlig.net/>
Jeff Beatty
Mar 7, 2015, 12:19:29 PM3/7/15
to Martin Jernberg, Axel Hecht, dev-...@lists.mozilla.org
Thanks Martin! Just file a bug and we can get Swedish set up :-)
Jeff
El 3/6/15 a las 4:39 PM, Martin Jernberg escibió:
Jeff
El 3/6/15 a las 4:39 PM, Martin Jernberg escibió:
> Cool i am Swedish L10n guy for Firefox for Android, if you need a
> Swedish Localizer / betatester for the iOS version aswell in the
> future just ping me at bit...@reimu.nl and i will try to help :)
> also cool will look at that tool when i have some spare time can
> betatest on my workphone aswell iPhone 4S, but don't have any Mac to
> try out stuff with Xcode :(
>
> //bittin
>
> On 3/6/15, Axel Hecht <l1...@mozilla.com> wrote:
> Swedish Localizer / betatester for the iOS version aswell in the
> future just ping me at bit...@reimu.nl and i will try to help :)
> also cool will look at that tool when i have some spare time can
> betatest on my workphone aswell iPhone 4S, but don't have any Mac to
> try out stuff with Xcode :(
>
> //bittin
>
> On 3/6/15, Axel Hecht <l1...@mozilla.com> wrote:
Jeff Beatty
Mar 7, 2015, 12:22:54 PM3/7/15
to Michael Wolf, dev-...@lists.mozilla.org
Hi Michael,
El 3/6/15 a las 3:50 PM, Michael Wolf escibió:
We need to do some experimentation to be sure about this, which will
take time. For v1, we can only really commit to shipping any of the
locales within that set of 31 that are explicitly supported.
That being said, you're welcome to file bugs and help us test for three
character locales and set the stage for more locales to be shipped in
the near future.
Jeff
El 3/6/15 a las 3:50 PM, Michael Wolf escibió:
take time. For v1, we can only really commit to shipping any of the
locales within that set of 31 that are explicitly supported.
That being said, you're welcome to file bugs and help us test for three
character locales and set the stage for more locales to be shipped in
the near future.
Jeff
>
> Thanks and kind regards,
>
> Michael
>
>
> Thanks and kind regards,
>
> Michael
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> dev-l10n mailing list
> dev-...@lists.mozilla.org
> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-l10n
> dev-l10n mailing list
> dev-...@lists.mozilla.org
> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-l10n
KAMI911 KAMI911
Mar 7, 2015, 12:38:04 PM3/7/15
to Jeff Beatty, dev-l10n
Hi Folks,
I am not interested to translate Firefox for iOS. Sorry.
All the best!
Üdvözlettel / Best Regards:
Kálmán (KAMI) Szalai
I am not interested to translate Firefox for iOS. Sorry.
All the best!
Üdvözlettel / Best Regards:
Kálmán (KAMI) Szalai
> 4) We want to invite all 31 locales to participate, but this is strictly
> an opt-in project. If you would like to localize Firefox for iOS, simply
> file a bug for your locale component and CC me and flod. We will set up
> your locale's string directory in SVN and make sure it appears on the
> webdashboard[2] (listed as "Firefox for iOS" in the "External Web Projects
> status"). We will also manage your "sign-off" for v1 through that bug.
>
> an opt-in project. If you would like to localize Firefox for iOS, simply
> file a bug for your locale component and CC me and flod. We will set up
> your locale's string directory in SVN and make sure it appears on the
> webdashboard[2] (listed as "Firefox for iOS" in the "External Web Projects
> status"). We will also manage your "sign-off" for v1 through that bug.
>
Michael Wolf
Mar 7, 2015, 12:41:21 PM3/7/15
to
Jeff Beatty schrieb:
thank you for your reply.
I thought so. Well I'll file a bug and hope that Maithili will help
Sorbian languages again to scrape through. ;-)
Regards,
Michael W.
> We need to do some experimentation to be sure about this, which will
> take time. For v1, we can only really commit to shipping any of the
> locales within that set of 31 that are explicitly supported.
>
> That being said, you're welcome to file bugs and help us test for three
> character locales and set the stage for more locales to be shipped in
> the near future.
Hi Jeff,
> take time. For v1, we can only really commit to shipping any of the
> locales within that set of 31 that are explicitly supported.
>
> That being said, you're welcome to file bugs and help us test for three
> character locales and set the stage for more locales to be shipped in
> the near future.
thank you for your reply.
I thought so. Well I'll file a bug and hope that Maithili will help
Sorbian languages again to scrape through. ;-)
Regards,
Michael W.
Kim Ludvigsen
Mar 7, 2015, 1:45:13 PM3/7/15
to
Den 08-03-2015 kl. 00:11 skrev Jeff Beatty:
> Having looked at the strings, I would say that they are very much
> "Mozilla Firefox" strings and not specific to one OS over another.
Sounds great. However, something less great, which I overlooked earlier:
> Having looked at the strings, I would say that they are very much
> "Mozilla Firefox" strings and not specific to one OS over another.
You use Subversion. Why not Mercurial as the other products?
My knowledge of this is close to nil, how much work is it to set this
up? What about permissions etc.? It is a bit silly if one has to spend
more time setting up stuff and learn to use it than what it takes to do
the actual translation. A bit of a killer for me.
--
Kind regards
Kim Ludvigsen
![Francesco Lodolo [:flod]'s profile photo](http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjXs0woEjV8IBRZaZsGBgw87TNzFgo_G2aPycSH6tCfbedeoye4=s40-c)
Francesco Lodolo [:flod]
Mar 7, 2015, 2:43:53 PM3/7/15
to Kim Ludvigsen, Mozilla l10n Mailing List
Why SVN? Because it's an extremely simple (and old) version control system,
and most important it doesn't require IT resources to set up new
repositories, we can create them directly.
How does it work? You checkout, you commit. There's no concept of branching
or merging, it's centralized and not distributed.
Some more information on how to work with SVN are available on MDN
https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/User:Milossh/SVN_for_Localizers
If you already have Mercurial access, we just need to make sure your LDAP
account is enabled for SVN. Someone else in your team should already have
it for mozilla.org if you don't work on Pootle.
Francesco
and most important it doesn't require IT resources to set up new
repositories, we can create them directly.
How does it work? You checkout, you commit. There's no concept of branching
or merging, it's centralized and not distributed.
Some more information on how to work with SVN are available on MDN
https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/User:Milossh/SVN_for_Localizers
If you already have Mercurial access, we just need to make sure your LDAP
account is enabled for SVN. Someone else in your team should already have
it for mozilla.org if you don't work on Pootle.
Francesco
Michael Bauer
Mar 7, 2015, 4:10:30 PM3/7/15
to Jeff Beatty, dev-l10n
Sgrìobh Jeff Beatty na leanas 07/03/2015 aig 17:17:
>
>
> I would ask you to still file the bug. The bugs help us to have a high
> level view of which locales are actively localizing the project, which
> we've been able to ship, and which are waiting for us to find a way to
> ship their locale (i.e., the measured demand for extended l10n support).
Done
>
> I would ask you to still file the bug. The bugs help us to have a high
> level view of which locales are actively localizing the project, which
> we've been able to ship, and which are waiting for us to find a way to
> ship their locale (i.e., the measured demand for extended l10n support).
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1140747
>
> Your right, there is a Pootle project currently set up. The en-US base
> needs to be updated with the latest changes, but we can do that and
> enable your locale once we see the bug pop up.
Grand
> Your right, there is a Pootle project currently set up. The en-US base
> needs to be updated with the latest changes, but we can do that and
> enable your locale once we see the bug pop up.
> The iOS simulator is actually really great! If you have a Mac, you can
> download Xcode for free through the App store and follow the
> documentation instructions we've included.
Ok, will check it out
> download Xcode for free through the App store and follow the
> documentation instructions we've included.
>
> As for devices, that has been a difficult discussion and we've had to
> come up with scrappy solutions. Where Android devices are getting more
> and more cost effective, Apple devices still remain in the high-end
> cost area.
Indeed. I usually try to blag some off Gaelic software users with a high
> As for devices, that has been a difficult discussion and we've had to
> come up with scrappy solutions. Where Android devices are getting more
> and more cost effective, Apple devices still remain in the high-end
> cost area.
device turnover
>> Just a question in passing, will this also (ultimately) aim for OSX
>> or is it explicitly only iOS, ever?
> The OSX version is Firefox desktop ;-)
>
My stupid, of course it is, sorry.
>> or is it explicitly only iOS, ever?
> The OSX version is Firefox desktop ;-)
>
Michael 'Coce' Köhler
Mar 7, 2015, 4:10:35 PM3/7/15
to
Hi Jeff,
Apparently there was just the first update about an hour ago and now the
localization file contains some strings multiple times. While
<https://l10n.mozilla-community.org/~flod/webstatus/?locale=de> doesn’t
seem to mind, I wonder if that makes any sense. Isn’t that just asking
for inconsistencies if it’s possible to translate the same string in
different ways?
> In this way, the l10n experience for iOS is similar to the experience
> localizing mozilla-central: string changes allowed until the final
> moment. Development will still be active and you can be sure to see
> some string changes every Friday throughout March and April.
Wonderful. So Mozilla has decided to throw another project at the
localizers and it is already aware of the trouble this will cause but
decides to go along with it anyway? Isn’t Mozilla aware that the
localizers already are operating under high workload? Just what is
Mozilla trying to achieve? Testing how much frustration we can take
before we quit?
I’m fairly certain I’ve said this before, but I’m happy to repeat
myself: this isn’t funny anymore.
Michael
Apparently there was just the first update about an hour ago and now the
localization file contains some strings multiple times. While
<https://l10n.mozilla-community.org/~flod/webstatus/?locale=de> doesn’t
seem to mind, I wonder if that makes any sense. Isn’t that just asking
for inconsistencies if it’s possible to translate the same string in
different ways?
> In this way, the l10n experience for iOS is similar to the experience
> localizing mozilla-central: string changes allowed until the final
> moment. Development will still be active and you can be sure to see
> some string changes every Friday throughout March and April.
localizers and it is already aware of the trouble this will cause but
decides to go along with it anyway? Isn’t Mozilla aware that the
localizers already are operating under high workload? Just what is
Mozilla trying to achieve? Testing how much frustration we can take
before we quit?
I’m fairly certain I’ve said this before, but I’m happy to repeat
myself: this isn’t funny anymore.
Michael
Rhoslyn Prys
Mar 7, 2015, 4:48:41 PM3/7/15
to dev-...@lists.mozilla.org
Thanks for the offer of contributing to this exciting new venture. There
are literally thousands of iOS devices within the education and local
government establishments here in Wales as well as in households. This
is a huge opportunity for Mozilla and for Welsh language software in
general.
Bug submitted: *Bug 1140749*
<https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1140749>
Also, a big thanks to you, Jeff for you contribution to our local
Through Technological Means Conference. It really was appreciated,
especially given that you were unwell at the time. If anybody is
interested in the open source products that were launched at the
conference, aimed particularly at lesser supported languages, you can
read about them at http://techiaith.org/conference-2015/?lang=en
under the relevant categories and in the blog.
Thanks again to Jeff, and to Dwayne Bailey who also spoke at the conference.
Rhos
Ar 06/03/15 21:16, ysgrifennodd Jeff Beatty:
are literally thousands of iOS devices within the education and local
government establishments here in Wales as well as in households. This
is a huge opportunity for Mozilla and for Welsh language software in
general.
Bug submitted: *Bug 1140749*
<https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1140749>
Also, a big thanks to you, Jeff for you contribution to our local
Through Technological Means Conference. It really was appreciated,
especially given that you were unwell at the time. If anybody is
interested in the open source products that were launched at the
conference, aimed particularly at lesser supported languages, you can
read about them at http://techiaith.org/conference-2015/?lang=en
under the relevant categories and in the blog.
Thanks again to Jeff, and to Dwayne Bailey who also spoke at the conference.
Rhos
Ar 06/03/15 21:16, ysgrifennodd Jeff Beatty:
> Hi everyone,
>
> *tl:dr; You can now localize Firefox on iOS, below are the resources
> and l10n plan for v1. Firefox on iOS is part of Mozilla's 2015 goal to
> increase the Firefox desktop userbase globally. It will launch with
> the Spring Release. Localization is opt-in (file a bug & CC me &
> flod), but restricted to what iOS supports**[1]**. This l10n process
> is new and needs your feedback to improve it.*
>
>
> I'm excited to announce that Firefox on iOS is ready for localization!
> Firefox is coming to iOS as a part of the spring release efforts. Many
> Firefox desktop and Apple iOS users around the world will be able to
> sync their browsing experience across Apple devices more freely than
> ever before. Mozilla hopes to win back Apple iOS users to Firefox by
> making synced browsing easier for them. This is a strong component to
> Mozilla's strategy to increase the Firefox desktop userbase worldwide.
>
> Here are the details behind the Firefox on iOS localization effort:
>
> 1) Firefox for iOS's v1 release plan coordinates with the Spring
> Release plan described in earlier emails. Release plans for adding
> Firefox for iOS to the 6 week train release schedule have not been
> finalized.
>
> 2) Because this is the first release of the product, feature
> development has been ongoing and likely will be ongoing until the very
> last moment. In this way, the l10n experience for iOS is similar to
>
> *tl:dr; You can now localize Firefox on iOS, below are the resources
> and l10n plan for v1. Firefox on iOS is part of Mozilla's 2015 goal to
> increase the Firefox desktop userbase globally. It will launch with
> the Spring Release. Localization is opt-in (file a bug & CC me &
> flod), but restricted to what iOS supports**[1]**. This l10n process
> is new and needs your feedback to improve it.*
>
>
> I'm excited to announce that Firefox on iOS is ready for localization!
> Firefox is coming to iOS as a part of the spring release efforts. Many
> Firefox desktop and Apple iOS users around the world will be able to
> sync their browsing experience across Apple devices more freely than
> ever before. Mozilla hopes to win back Apple iOS users to Firefox by
> making synced browsing easier for them. This is a strong component to
> Mozilla's strategy to increase the Firefox desktop userbase worldwide.
>
> Here are the details behind the Firefox on iOS localization effort:
>
> 1) Firefox for iOS's v1 release plan coordinates with the Spring
> Release plan described in earlier emails. Release plans for adding
> Firefox for iOS to the 6 week train release schedule have not been
> finalized.
>
> 2) Because this is the first release of the product, feature
> development has been ongoing and likely will be ongoing until the very
> the experience localizing mozilla-central: string changes allowed
> until the final moment. Development will still be active and you can
> be sure to see some string changes every Friday throughout March and
> April.
>
> until the final moment. Development will still be active and you can
> be sure to see some string changes every Friday throughout March and
> April.
>
Michael Wolf
Mar 7, 2015, 5:29:14 PM3/7/15
to
Hi,
I filed following bugs:
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1140754 for Upper Sorbian
and
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1140755 for Lower Sorbian
Michael W.
I filed following bugs:
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1140754 for Upper Sorbian
and
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1140755 for Lower Sorbian
Michael W.
Rhoslyn Prys
Mar 7, 2015, 5:40:37 PM3/7/15
to dev-...@lists.mozilla.org
Thanks for the offer of contributing to this exciting new venture. There are literally thousands of iOS devices within the education and local government establishments here in Wales as well as in households. This is a huge opportunity for Mozilla and for Welsh language software in general.
Bug submitted: Bug 1140749
Axel Hecht
Mar 8, 2015, 2:35:58 PM3/8/15
to
On 3/7/15 10:10 PM, Michael 'Coce' Köhler wrote:
> Hi Jeff,
>
> Apparently there was just the first update about an hour ago and now the
> localization file contains some strings multiple times. While
> <https://l10n.mozilla-community.org/~flod/webstatus/?locale=de> doesn’t
> seem to mind, I wonder if that makes any sense. Isn’t that just asking
> for inconsistencies if it’s possible to translate the same string in
> different ways?
I suspect that the strings are used in different contexts, and in the mobile world, that's more an opportunity for fixes to have them separate.
> Hi Jeff,
>
> Apparently there was just the first update about an hour ago and now the
> localization file contains some strings multiple times. While
> <https://l10n.mozilla-community.org/~flod/webstatus/?locale=de> doesn’t
> seem to mind, I wonder if that makes any sense. Isn’t that just asking
> for inconsistencies if it’s possible to translate the same string in
> different ways?
Probably also technically hard to avoid that in the way the project is coded, thanks to iOS.
I could think about adding an in-file TM-ish thing to moz.xliff if you think that'd help.
>> In this way, the l10n experience for iOS is similar to the experience
>> localizing mozilla-central: string changes allowed until the final
>> moment. Development will still be active and you can be sure to see
>> some string changes every Friday throughout March and April.
>
> Wonderful. So Mozilla has decided to throw another project at the
> localizers and it is already aware of the trouble this will cause but
> decides to go along with it anyway? Isn’t Mozilla aware that the
> localizers already are operating under high workload? Just what is
> Mozilla trying to achieve? Testing how much frustration we can take
> before we quit?
>
>
> I’m fairly certain I’ve said this before, but I’m happy to repeat
> myself: this isn’t funny anymore.
I agree with you that this is not enough to successfully ship a localized product. It'll take more negotiations.
Right now, we have the technical infrastructure, and there's just no point in waiting to test it out with real localizations.
Waiting and hoping for something perfect is just going to get us nothing in the end.
Axel
Michael Wolf
Mar 8, 2015, 3:11:51 PM3/8/15
to
Axel Hecht schrieb:
Hello Axel, hello Michael,
although I plan to translate Fx for iOS into Sorbian languages, I can
offer you my help to translate into German to take the pressure off the
translator(s) of German at least a little.
Regards,
Michael 'milupo'
although I plan to translate Fx for iOS into Sorbian languages, I can
offer you my help to translate into German to take the pressure off the
translator(s) of German at least a little.
Regards,
Michael 'milupo'
droid...@gmail.com
Mar 9, 2015, 5:56:03 AM3/9/15
to
>> Okay, where do you want the bug reported, somewhere on Bugzilla?, also sent you a message on facebook we talked about in the Swedish Community i don't have any Mac, that can run Xcode only old PPC macs that runs Debian, but i have an iPhone 4S as a workphone i can test stuff on, and Björn in the Swedish Community told he can compile and do stuff with Xcode :)
//Martin
//Martin
Michael Bauer
Mar 9, 2015, 8:05:38 AM3/9/15
to dev-...@lists.mozilla.org
Well, it WAS announced as an opt-in project so if resources are
stretched, then don't do it?
Perhaps this is something you might want to handle over on Locamotion to
bring in new translators?
Michael
Sgrìobh Michael Wolf na leanas 08/03/2015 aig 19:11:
stretched, then don't do it?
Perhaps this is something you might want to handle over on Locamotion to
bring in new translators?
Michael
Sgrìobh Michael Wolf na leanas 08/03/2015 aig 19:11:
>> On 3/7/15 10:10 PM, Michael 'Coce' Köhler wrote:
>
>>> Wonderful. So Mozilla has decided to throw another project at the
>>> localizers and it is already aware of the trouble this will cause but
>>> decides to go along with it anyway? Isn’t Mozilla aware that the
>>> localizers already are operating under high workload? Just what is
>>> Mozilla trying to achieve? Testing how much frustration we can take
>>> before we quit?
>
>>> Wonderful. So Mozilla has decided to throw another project at the
>>> localizers and it is already aware of the trouble this will cause but
>>> decides to go along with it anyway? Isn’t Mozilla aware that the
>>> localizers already are operating under high workload? Just what is
>>> Mozilla trying to achieve? Testing how much frustration we can take
>>> before we quit?
Michael Wolf
Mar 9, 2015, 8:12:56 AM3/9/15
to
Michael Bauer schrieb:
Yeah, it can be confusing when three Michaels communicate.
Michael 'milupo'
> Well, it WAS announced as an opt-in project so if resources are
> stretched, then don't do it?
>
> Perhaps this is something you might want to handle over on Locamotion to
> bring in new translators?
Hey, Michael, you quoted my message but you omitted my text. :-)
> stretched, then don't do it?
>
> Perhaps this is something you might want to handle over on Locamotion to
> bring in new translators?
Yeah, it can be confusing when three Michaels communicate.
Michael 'milupo'
Jeff Beatty
Mar 9, 2015, 9:57:59 AM3/9/15
to Michael 'Coce' Köhler, dev-...@lists.mozilla.org
El 3/7/15 a las 2:10 PM, Michael 'Coce' Köhler escibió:
> Hi Jeff,
>
> Apparently there was just the first update about an hour ago and now the
> localization file contains some strings multiple times. While
> <https://l10n.mozilla-community.org/~flod/webstatus/?locale=de> doesn’t
> seem to mind, I wonder if that makes any sense. Isn’t that just asking
> for inconsistencies if it’s possible to translate the same string in
> different ways?
What's most likely is that there are a number of obsolete strings. Xcode
>
> Apparently there was just the first update about an hour ago and now the
> localization file contains some strings multiple times. While
> <https://l10n.mozilla-community.org/~flod/webstatus/?locale=de> doesn’t
> seem to mind, I wonder if that makes any sense. Isn’t that just asking
> for inconsistencies if it’s possible to translate the same string in
> different ways?
target language exports include new source strings, but don't automate
the removal of obsolete strings. This is largely because Xcode is able
to intelligently look for strings that are relevant and use only those.
Of course, this does present an obstacle for translation that can and
should be improved in the future. I'll add that to the list of suggested
improvements. Thank you.
>
>> In this way, the l10n experience for iOS is similar to the experience
>> localizing mozilla-central: string changes allowed until the final
>> moment. Development will still be active and you can be sure to see
>> some string changes every Friday throughout March and April.
> Wonderful. So Mozilla has decided to throw another project at the
> localizers and it is already aware of the trouble this will cause but
> decides to go along with it anyway? Isn’t Mozilla aware that the
> localizers already are operating under high workload? Just what is
> Mozilla trying to achieve? Testing how much frustration we can take
> before we quit?
>
>
> I’m fairly certain I’ve said this before, but I’m happy to repeat
> myself: this isn’t funny anymore.
I can understand the frustration, but please keep in mind, this project
>> In this way, the l10n experience for iOS is similar to the experience
>> localizing mozilla-central: string changes allowed until the final
>> moment. Development will still be active and you can be sure to see
>> some string changes every Friday throughout March and April.
> Wonderful. So Mozilla has decided to throw another project at the
> localizers and it is already aware of the trouble this will cause but
> decides to go along with it anyway? Isn’t Mozilla aware that the
> localizers already are operating under high workload? Just what is
> Mozilla trying to achieve? Testing how much frustration we can take
> before we quit?
>
>
> I’m fairly certain I’ve said this before, but I’m happy to repeat
> myself: this isn’t funny anymore.
is opt-in.
If you or your l10n team feel like you have taken on too many projects,
that usually means that it's time to recruit newcomers and release some
control on projects. No one individual has to take on the world. I feel
that the l10n-drivers have made it clear that if a l10n team needs help
with recruitment and training, we're a good resource to rely on. Please
take us up on that :-D
Jeff
>
> Michael
Stef
Mar 9, 2015, 12:01:37 PM3/9/15
to mozilla-dev-l10n
Wiadomość napisana przez Jeff Beatty <jbe...@mozilla.com> w dniu 6 mar 2015, o godz. 22:24:
>
> One last thing I really want to emphasize: this is a dynamic process that we're working to improve. Some details are still being worked out, but we likely won't be able to work them out until we begin localization. I will be quick to communicate on this thread when there are updates to the schedule or new strings available for translation. I will also be quick to answer questions, accept criticisms, and collaborate to improve the process for future versions of the product.
What was the reason for removal of all Polish translations in revision 138876? Would it be very big problem not to touch files in "/pl/" folder without review from our team?
Would it be possible to use meaningful commit descriptions (as in mozilla-central) and not "managed" atomic nonsense.
Would it be possible to require comments for strings?
> 6) We have an alternativedashboard set up for you to follow your localization progress[4]. As you can see from the locales that are already listed, the amount of strings to translate is very low. I, personally, performed a translation of the full file (in the raw XLIFF file too) into Spanish and tracked my time. Even following the documentation for translating the raw XLIFF file, completing the project only took 30 minutes.
I'm simply curious, how much time did you spend digging through source code to check what exactly you are trying to localize?
Also, while testing my now removed translation in iOS simulator on my mac I saw quite a lot unlocalizable strings - is it known simulator bug or they should be reported? Any updates on TestFlight?
stef
>
> One last thing I really want to emphasize: this is a dynamic process that we're working to improve. Some details are still being worked out, but we likely won't be able to work them out until we begin localization. I will be quick to communicate on this thread when there are updates to the schedule or new strings available for translation. I will also be quick to answer questions, accept criticisms, and collaborate to improve the process for future versions of the product.
What was the reason for removal of all Polish translations in revision 138876? Would it be very big problem not to touch files in "/pl/" folder without review from our team?
Would it be possible to use meaningful commit descriptions (as in mozilla-central) and not "managed" atomic nonsense.
Would it be possible to require comments for strings?
> 6) We have an alternativedashboard set up for you to follow your localization progress[4]. As you can see from the locales that are already listed, the amount of strings to translate is very low. I, personally, performed a translation of the full file (in the raw XLIFF file too) into Spanish and tracked my time. Even following the documentation for translating the raw XLIFF file, completing the project only took 30 minutes.
Also, while testing my now removed translation in iOS simulator on my mac I saw quite a lot unlocalizable strings - is it known simulator bug or they should be reported? Any updates on TestFlight?
stef
Jeff Beatty
Mar 9, 2015, 12:17:50 PM3/9/15
to dev-...@lists.mozilla.org
El 3/9/15 a las 10:01 AM, Stef escibió:
> Wiadomość napisana przez Jeff Beatty <jbe...@mozilla.com> w dniu 6 mar 2015, o godz. 22:24:
>> One last thing I really want to emphasize: this is a dynamic process that we're working to improve. Some details are still being worked out, but we likely won't be able to work them out until we begin localization. I will be quick to communicate on this thread when there are updates to the schedule or new strings available for translation. I will also be quick to answer questions, accept criticisms, and collaborate to improve the process for future versions of the product.
> What was the reason for removal of all Polish translations in revision 138876? Would it be very big problem not to touch files in "/pl/" folder without review from our team?
Please feel free to revert. We had not yet updated the en-US source
>> One last thing I really want to emphasize: this is a dynamic process that we're working to improve. Some details are still being worked out, but we likely won't be able to work them out until we begin localization. I will be quick to communicate on this thread when there are updates to the schedule or new strings available for translation. I will also be quick to answer questions, accept criticisms, and collaborate to improve the process for future versions of the product.
> What was the reason for removal of all Polish translations in revision 138876? Would it be very big problem not to touch files in "/pl/" folder without review from our team?
strings before adding more directories. This was my attempt to do so and
the webdashboard had not shown translation progress. I assumed the
Polish team had not yet started.
By reverting and then importing those strings into Xcode, I can provide
a better updated file. Please forgive the confusion.
If any other team has found the same problem in their repo, please
contact me and we'll work to fix it.
>
> Would it be possible to use meaningful commit descriptions (as in mozilla-central) and not "managed" atomic nonsense.
The purpose of the commit was to update the en-US base with new strings.
> Would it be possible to use meaningful commit descriptions (as in mozilla-central) and not "managed" atomic nonsense.
I will attempt to provide more detailed messages, but Xcode doesn't
report on what is specifically exported into new xliff files. This may
be as specific as some of these new string updates become.
> Would it be possible to require comments for strings?
This is a practice that Stefan has made a require for the development
team in this bug -- https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1140011
. Please feel free to follow.
>
>> 6) We have an alternativedashboard set up for you to follow your localization progress[4]. As you can see from the locales that are already listed, the amount of strings to translate is very low. I, personally, performed a translation of the full file (in the raw XLIFF file too) into Spanish and tracked my time. Even following the documentation for translating the raw XLIFF file, completing the project only took 30 minutes.
> I'm simply curious, how much time did you spend digging through source code to check what exactly you are trying to localize?
There is no app source code to dig through in XLIFF files, but there is
>> 6) We have an alternativedashboard set up for you to follow your localization progress[4]. As you can see from the locales that are already listed, the amount of strings to translate is very low. I, personally, performed a translation of the full file (in the raw XLIFF file too) into Spanish and tracked my time. Even following the documentation for translating the raw XLIFF file, completing the project only took 30 minutes.
> I'm simply curious, how much time did you spend digging through source code to check what exactly you are trying to localize?
raw XML. This is why I made sure to write thorough documentation to
guide you through. Using the find function in my text editor, I searched
for the <source> tag and provided a <target> tag set & translation
underneath.
If the documentation is missing something, please feel free to file a
bug under Mozilla Localizations > Documentation.
>
> Also, while testing my now removed translation in iOS simulator on my mac I saw quite a lot unlocalizable strings - is it known simulator bug or they should be reported?
Are these strings hardcoded? Could you please file a bug under Firefox
> Also, while testing my now removed translation in iOS simulator on my mac I saw quite a lot unlocalizable strings - is it known simulator bug or they should be reported?
for iOS > General?
> Any updates on TestFlight?
None from me yet, but Stefan may have more info.
Thanks,
Jeff
>
>
> stef
Michael 'Coce' Köhler
Mar 9, 2015, 2:37:07 PM3/9/15
to
Hi Jeff,
> I can understand the frustration, but please keep in mind, this project
> is opt-in.
Alright then. As far as I know, I didn’t opt-in and still the file
appeared in our SVN repository and on our webdashboard. That’s not how I
remember opt-ins so far. Also, when I did the initial translation, this
thread was not yet there, unless my memory and my calculations fail me,
so I didn’t know about the opt-in.
> If you or your l10n team feel like you have taken on too many projects,
> that usually means that it's time to recruit newcomers and release some
> control on projects.
It appears we’re not particularly good at recruiting, so we might just
accept your help on that one. ;-) We’ll be in touch.
Michael
> I can understand the frustration, but please keep in mind, this project
> is opt-in.
appeared in our SVN repository and on our webdashboard. That’s not how I
remember opt-ins so far. Also, when I did the initial translation, this
thread was not yet there, unless my memory and my calculations fail me,
so I didn’t know about the opt-in.
> If you or your l10n team feel like you have taken on too many projects,
> that usually means that it's time to recruit newcomers and release some
> control on projects.
accept your help on that one. ;-) We’ll be in touch.
Michael
Jeff Beatty
Mar 9, 2015, 2:46:34 PM3/9/15
to dev-...@lists.mozilla.org
Hi Michael,
El 3/9/15 a las 12:37 PM, Michael 'Coce' Köhler escibió:
up. Sorry for the confusion.
El 3/9/15 a las 12:37 PM, Michael 'Coce' Köhler escibió:
> Hi Jeff,
>
>> I can understand the frustration, but please keep in mind, this project
>> is opt-in.
> Alright then. As far as I know, I didn’t opt-in and still the file
> appeared in our SVN repository and on our webdashboard.
> That’s not how I
> remember opt-ins so far. Also, when I did the initial translation, this
> thread was not yet there, unless my memory and my calculations fail me,
> so I didn’t know about the opt-in.
That was for testing purposes as we worked out how to get everything set
>
>> I can understand the frustration, but please keep in mind, this project
>> is opt-in.
> Alright then. As far as I know, I didn’t opt-in and still the file
> appeared in our SVN repository and on our webdashboard.
> That’s not how I
> remember opt-ins so far. Also, when I did the initial translation, this
> thread was not yet there, unless my memory and my calculations fail me,
> so I didn’t know about the opt-in.
up. Sorry for the confusion.
>
>
>> If you or your l10n team feel like you have taken on too many projects,
>> that usually means that it's time to recruit newcomers and release some
>> control on projects.
> It appears we’re not particularly good at recruiting, so we might just
> accept your help on that one. ;-) We’ll be in touch.
We'll be happy to help in any way. :-)
>
>> If you or your l10n team feel like you have taken on too many projects,
>> that usually means that it's time to recruit newcomers and release some
>> control on projects.
> It appears we’re not particularly good at recruiting, so we might just
> accept your help on that one. ;-) We’ll be in touch.
Stef
Mar 11, 2015, 10:24:43 AM3/11/15
to mozilla-dev-l10n
Wiadomość napisana przez Jeff Beatty <jbe...@mozilla.com> w dniu 9 mar 2015, o godz. 17:17:
>> Would it be possible to use meaningful commit descriptions (as in mozilla-central) and not "managed" atomic nonsense.
> The purpose of the commit was to update the en-US base with new strings. I will attempt to provide more detailed messages, but Xcode doesn't report on what is specifically exported into new xliff files. This may be as specific as some of these new string updates become.
Maybe I wasn't clear enough. Why not automatically export¹ changes to en-US localization² for every commit³?
>> Would it be possible to require comments for strings?
> This is a practice that Stefan has made a require for the development team in this bug -- https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1140011 . Please feel free to follow.
Great! Will report omissions as blocking 1140011. Thanks.
>>> 6) We have an alternativedashboard set up for you to follow your localization progress[4]. As you can see from the locales that are already listed, the amount of strings to translate is very low. I, personally, performed a translation of the full file (in the raw XLIFF file too) into Spanish and tracked my time. Even following the documentation for translating the raw XLIFF file, completing the project only took 30 minutes.
>> I'm simply curious, how much time did you spend digging through source code to check what exactly you are trying to localize?
> There is no app source code to dig through in XLIFF files, but there is raw XML. This is why I made sure to write thorough documentation to guide you through. Using the find function in my text editor, I searched for the <source> tag and provided a <target> tag set & translation underneath.
>
> If the documentation is missing something, please feel free to file a bug under Mozilla Localizations > Documentation.
Right, there is no app source code in XLIFF files but in order to understand what I'm going to translate I needed to grep app repository⁴. Do you use some other, more efficient method when there is not enough context?
1. https://developer.apple.com/library/ios/documentation/MacOSX/Conceptual/BPInternational/LocalizingYourApp/LocalizingYourApp.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/10000171i-CH5-SW13
2. https://svn.mozilla.org/projects/l10n-misc/trunk/firefox-ios/en-US/firefox-ios.xliff
3. https://github.com/mozilla/firefox-ios/commits/master
4. https://github.com/mozilla/firefox-ios
>
> El 3/9/15 a las 10:01 AM, Stef escibió:
>>
> El 3/9/15 a las 10:01 AM, Stef escibió:
>>
>> What was the reason for removal of all Polish translations in revision 138876? Would it be very big problem not to touch files in "/pl/" folder without review from our team?
> Please feel free to revert. We had not yet updated the en-US source strings before adding more directories. This was my attempt to do so and the webdashboard had not shown translation progress. I assumed the Polish team had not yet started.
>
> By reverting and then importing those strings into Xcode, I can provide a better updated file. Please forgive the confusion.
OK, it is not a big problem since there are not too many strings right now. (it was more about workflow)
> Please feel free to revert. We had not yet updated the en-US source strings before adding more directories. This was my attempt to do so and the webdashboard had not shown translation progress. I assumed the Polish team had not yet started.
>
> By reverting and then importing those strings into Xcode, I can provide a better updated file. Please forgive the confusion.
>> Would it be possible to use meaningful commit descriptions (as in mozilla-central) and not "managed" atomic nonsense.
> The purpose of the commit was to update the en-US base with new strings. I will attempt to provide more detailed messages, but Xcode doesn't report on what is specifically exported into new xliff files. This may be as specific as some of these new string updates become.
>> Would it be possible to require comments for strings?
> This is a practice that Stefan has made a require for the development team in this bug -- https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1140011 . Please feel free to follow.
>>> 6) We have an alternativedashboard set up for you to follow your localization progress[4]. As you can see from the locales that are already listed, the amount of strings to translate is very low. I, personally, performed a translation of the full file (in the raw XLIFF file too) into Spanish and tracked my time. Even following the documentation for translating the raw XLIFF file, completing the project only took 30 minutes.
>> I'm simply curious, how much time did you spend digging through source code to check what exactly you are trying to localize?
> There is no app source code to dig through in XLIFF files, but there is raw XML. This is why I made sure to write thorough documentation to guide you through. Using the find function in my text editor, I searched for the <source> tag and provided a <target> tag set & translation underneath.
>
> If the documentation is missing something, please feel free to file a bug under Mozilla Localizations > Documentation.
1. https://developer.apple.com/library/ios/documentation/MacOSX/Conceptual/BPInternational/LocalizingYourApp/LocalizingYourApp.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/10000171i-CH5-SW13
2. https://svn.mozilla.org/projects/l10n-misc/trunk/firefox-ios/en-US/firefox-ios.xliff
3. https://github.com/mozilla/firefox-ios/commits/master
4. https://github.com/mozilla/firefox-ios
Axel Hecht
Mar 11, 2015, 12:57:55 PM3/11/15
to
On 3/11/15 3:24 PM, Stef wrote:
Wiadomość napisana przez Jeff Beatty <jbe...@mozilla.com> w dniu 9 mar 2015, o godz. 17:17:El 3/9/15 a las 10:01 AM, Stef escibió:What was the reason for removal of all Polish translations in revision 138876? Would it be very big problem not to touch files in "/pl/" folder without review from our team?Please feel free to revert. We had not yet updated the en-US source strings before adding more directories. This was my attempt to do so and the webdashboard had not shown translation progress. I assumed the Polish team had not yet started. By reverting and then importing those strings into Xcode, I can provide a better updated file. Please forgive the confusion.OK, it is not a big problem since there are not too many strings right now. (it was more about workflow)Would it be possible to use meaningful commit descriptions (as in mozilla-central) and not "managed" atomic nonsense.The purpose of the commit was to update the en-US base with new strings. I will attempt to provide more detailed messages, but Xcode doesn't report on what is specifically exported into new xliff files. This may be as specific as some of these new string updates become.Maybe I wasn't clear enough. Why not automatically export¹ changes to en-US localization² for every commit³?
'cause then someone needs to write that automation, that's really
the biggest piece here. Stefan is looking at scripting stuff, and
maybe that turns out to be leading there.
Also, the en-US localization isn't that helpful as it is in monolingual files. I suspect that most folks will work on the English strings in their own xliff, and generating that seems to be a manual process on the import. Stefan had reasons, something about conflicts, but I don't understand enough to detail. So updating anything but en-US is the thing with impact, and apparently that's manual by design in Xcode.
Also, the en-US localization isn't that helpful as it is in monolingual files. I suspect that most folks will work on the English strings in their own xliff, and generating that seems to be a manual process on the import. Stefan had reasons, something about conflicts, but I don't understand enough to detail. So updating anything but en-US is the thing with impact, and apparently that's manual by design in Xcode.
Would it be possible to require comments for strings?This is a practice that Stefan has made a require for the development team in this bug -- https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1140011 . Please feel free to follow.Great! Will report omissions as blocking 1140011. Thanks.6) We have an alternativedashboard set up for you to follow your localization progress[4]. As you can see from the locales that are already listed, the amount of strings to translate is very low. I, personally, performed a translation of the full file (in the raw XLIFF file too) into Spanish and tracked my time. Even following the documentation for translating the raw XLIFF file, completing the project only took 30 minutes.I'm simply curious, how much time did you spend digging through source code to check what exactly you are trying to localize?There is no app source code to dig through in XLIFF files, but there is raw XML. This is why I made sure to write thorough documentation to guide you through. Using the find function in my text editor, I searched for the <source> tag and provided a <target> tag set & translation underneath. If the documentation is missing something, please feel free to file a bug under Mozilla Localizations > Documentation.Right, there is no app source code in XLIFF files but in order to understand what I'm going to translate I needed to grep app repository⁴. Do you use some other, more efficient method when there is not enough context?
https://github.com/mozilla/firefox-ios/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=NSLocalizedString+Add+to+Bookmarks&type=Code
is a query that you can probably modify to get good results. the
NSLocalizedString in there is to get you callsites into the l10n
infra. That's the only trick I have for you right now.
Axel
Axel
Dwayne Bailey
Mar 12, 2015, 6:09:58 PM3/12/15
to Axel Hecht, dev-l10n
For those concerned about redundant strings left hanging in the XLIFF file
(And who aren't going to translate on Pootle). You can do your own update
using pot2po from the Translate Toolkit (you will need that latest git
version)
pot2po -t your.xliff en-US.xliff your.xliff
It should do a clean update and the file should be good enough for Xcode.
Lots of shoulds there :)
*Translate*
+27 12 460 1095 (work)
(And who aren't going to translate on Pootle). You can do your own update
using pot2po from the Translate Toolkit (you will need that latest git
version)
pot2po -t your.xliff en-US.xliff your.xliff
It should do a clean update and the file should be good enough for Xcode.
Lots of shoulds there :)
> _______________________________________________
> dev-l10n mailing list
> dev-...@lists.mozilla.org
> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-l10n
>
--
Dwayne
> dev-l10n mailing list
> dev-...@lists.mozilla.org
> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-l10n
>
--
*Translate*
+27 12 460 1095 (work)
Stef
Mar 17, 2015, 11:08:15 AM3/17/15
to mozilla-dev-l10n
Wiadomość napisana przez Axel Hecht <l1...@mozilla.com> w dniu 11 mar 2015, o godz. 17:57:
> Also, the en-US localization isn't that helpful as it is in monolingual files. I suspect that most folks will work on the English strings in their own xliff, and generating that seems to be a manual process on the import. Stefan had reasons, something about conflicts, but I don't understand enough to detail. So updating anything but en-US is the thing with impact, and apparently that's manual by design in Xcode.
I have no idea why having en-US localization updated in a timely fashion, with changes logically grouped and providing reasoning behind it (bug number) and all other goodies available to desktop translators wouldn't be that helpful. Simply because the file is bilingual (contains reference, en-US, locale strings)?
So I think that your conclusion, that updating anything but en-US is the thing with impact, is simply wrong - we are more then capable of coping changes to locale files… and if one seeks convenience via en-US changes application to localized file by some helpful engineers and accepts all consequences then fine - but please, don't force that.
>> Right, there is no app source code in XLIFF files but in order to understand what I'm going to translate I needed to grep app repository⁴. Do you use some other, more efficient method when there is not enough context?
> https://github.com/mozilla/firefox-ios/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=NSLocalizedString+Add+to+Bookmarks&type=Code is a query that you can probably modify to get good results. the NSLocalizedString in there is to get you callsites into the l10n infra. That's the only trick I have for you right now.
Github search is no good and the reason to use grep but maybe it would be possible to add repository to mxr.mozilla.org?
> On 3/11/15 3:24 PM, Stef wrote:
>> Maybe I wasn't clear enough. Why not automatically export¹ changes to en-US localization² for every commit³?
> 'cause then someone needs to write that automation, that's really the biggest piece here. Stefan is looking at scripting stuff, and maybe that turns out to be leading there.
Is that such a big problem? Is it estimated to take more time then dealing with exports manually? Can I help somehow?
>> Maybe I wasn't clear enough. Why not automatically export¹ changes to en-US localization² for every commit³?
> 'cause then someone needs to write that automation, that's really the biggest piece here. Stefan is looking at scripting stuff, and maybe that turns out to be leading there.
> Also, the en-US localization isn't that helpful as it is in monolingual files. I suspect that most folks will work on the English strings in their own xliff, and generating that seems to be a manual process on the import. Stefan had reasons, something about conflicts, but I don't understand enough to detail. So updating anything but en-US is the thing with impact, and apparently that's manual by design in Xcode.
So I think that your conclusion, that updating anything but en-US is the thing with impact, is simply wrong - we are more then capable of coping changes to locale files… and if one seeks convenience via en-US changes application to localized file by some helpful engineers and accepts all consequences then fine - but please, don't force that.
>> Right, there is no app source code in XLIFF files but in order to understand what I'm going to translate I needed to grep app repository⁴. Do you use some other, more efficient method when there is not enough context?
> https://github.com/mozilla/firefox-ios/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=NSLocalizedString+Add+to+Bookmarks&type=Code is a query that you can probably modify to get good results. the NSLocalizedString in there is to get you callsites into the l10n infra. That's the only trick I have for you right now.
Jeff Beatty
Mar 17, 2015, 11:23:02 AM3/17/15
to Stef, mozilla-dev-l10n, Stefan Arentz
El 3/17/15 a las 9:07 AM, Stef escibió:
> Wiadomość napisana przez Axel Hecht <l1...@mozilla.com> w dniu 11 mar 2015, o godz. 17:57:
>> On 3/11/15 3:24 PM, Stef wrote:
>>> Maybe I wasn't clear enough. Why not automatically export¹ changes to en-US localization² for every commit³?
>> 'cause then someone needs to write that automation, that's really the biggest piece here. Stefan is looking at scripting stuff, and maybe that turns out to be leading there.
>>> Maybe I wasn't clear enough. Why not automatically export¹ changes to en-US localization² for every commit³?
>> 'cause then someone needs to write that automation, that's really the biggest piece here. Stefan is looking at scripting stuff, and maybe that turns out to be leading there.
> Is that such a big problem? Is it estimated to take more time then dealing with exports manually? Can I help somehow?
There's a command-line tool within xcode that Stefan is looking at using
to automate these exports. I'll let him comment on how you can help with
this. I'm sure he'd appreciate the help.
>
>> Also, the en-US localization isn't that helpful as it is in monolingual files. I suspect that most folks will work on the English strings in their own xliff, and generating that seems to be a manual process on the import. Stefan had reasons, something about conflicts, but I don't understand enough to detail. So updating anything but en-US is the thing with impact, and apparently that's manual by design in Xcode.
>> Also, the en-US localization isn't that helpful as it is in monolingual files. I suspect that most folks will work on the English strings in their own xliff, and generating that seems to be a manual process on the import. Stefan had reasons, something about conflicts, but I don't understand enough to detail. So updating anything but en-US is the thing with impact, and apparently that's manual by design in Xcode.
> I have no idea why having en-US localization updated in a timely fashion, with changes logically grouped and providing reasoning behind it (bug number) and all other goodies available to desktop translators wouldn't be that helpful. Simply because the file is bilingual (contains reference, en-US, locale strings)?
>
> So I think that your conclusion, that updating anything but en-US is the thing with impact, is simply wrong - we are more then capable of coping changes to locale files… and if one seeks convenience via en-US changes application to localized file by some helpful engineers and accepts all consequences then fine - but please, don't force that.
Maybe I can help clarify here: Xcode exports all new string additions,
>
> So I think that your conclusion, that updating anything but en-US is the thing with impact, is simply wrong - we are more then capable of coping changes to locale files… and if one seeks convenience via en-US changes application to localized file by some helpful engineers and accepts all consequences then fine - but please, don't force that.
as well as new groupings of strings in <file> elements, into per locale
xliff files. This removes the need to copy/paste changes into locale
files, because Xcode does that work for you. We're using this automation
from Xcode to reduce headaches for localizers, as well as time spent
performing more technical tasks. If it's causing you more headaches,
however, and you'd prefer to manually copy/paste from the most
up-to-date en-US source file into your locale file, that's fine, and we
can do that too. Just let me know what is easiest for you.
en-US is also still being updated with each export for a couple of reasons:
1) That is what Pootle uses as the base project.
2) New locales will want the most up-to-date source file available.
>
>>> Right, there is no app source code in XLIFF files but in order to understand what I'm going to translate I needed to grep app repository⁴. Do you use some other, more efficient method when there is not enough context?
>> https://github.com/mozilla/firefox-ios/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=NSLocalizedString+Add+to+Bookmarks&type=Code is a query that you can probably modify to get good results. the NSLocalizedString in there is to get you callsites into the l10n infra. That's the only trick I have for you right now.
> Github search is no good and the reason to use grep but maybe it would be possible to add repository to mxr.mozilla.org?
Stefan, are you the one to ping with this question?
> _______________________________________________
> dev-l10n mailing list
> dev-...@lists.mozilla.org
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Stefan Arentz
Mar 17, 2015, 11:45:59 AM3/17/15
to Jeff Beatty, Stef, mozilla-dev-l10n
On Tue, Mar 17, 2015 at 11:22 AM, Jeff Beatty <jbe...@mozilla.com> wrote:
>
>
> El 3/17/15 a las 9:07 AM, Stef escibió:
>
> Wiadomość napisana przez Axel Hecht <l1...@mozilla.com> <l1...@mozilla.com> w dniu 11 mar 2015, o godz. 17:57:
>
>
> El 3/17/15 a las 9:07 AM, Stef escibió:
>
>
> On 3/11/15 3:24 PM, Stef wrote:
>
> Maybe I wasn't clear enough. Why not automatically export¹ changes to en-US localization² for every commit³?
>
> 'cause then someone needs to write that automation, that's really the biggest piece here. Stefan is looking at scripting stuff, and maybe that turns out to be leading there.
>
> On 3/11/15 3:24 PM, Stef wrote:
>
> Maybe I wasn't clear enough. Why not automatically export¹ changes to en-US localization² for every commit³?
>
> 'cause then someone needs to write that automation, that's really the biggest piece here. Stefan is looking at scripting stuff, and maybe that turns out to be leading there.
>
> Is that such a big problem? Is it estimated to take more time then dealing with exports manually? Can I help somehow?
>
> There's a command-line tool within xcode that Stefan is looking at using
> to automate these exports. I'll let him comment on how you can help with
> this. I'm sure he'd appreciate the help.
>
Getting the xliff file out of the project is not really difficult. We can
>
> There's a command-line tool within xcode that Stefan is looking at using
> to automate these exports. I'll let him comment on how you can help with
> this. I'm sure he'd appreciate the help.
>
script that.
What I am not sure about is how to get that file into SVN. Currently we run
builds on every commit on a machine running Xcode Server. We can do pre and
post build hooks there. But I am not entirely sure how to transfer SVN
credentials there. Do we have other projects that do this kind of thing?
If this helps you then I can certainly put some time in it (not a huge
amount, but i don't think that would be needed).
> Also, the en-US localization isn't that helpful as it is in monolingual files. I suspect that most folks will work on the English strings in their own xliff, and generating that seems to be a manual process on the import. Stefan had reasons, something about conflicts, but I don't understand enough to detail. So updating anything but en-US is the thing with impact, and apparently that's manual by design in Xcode.
>
> I have no idea why having en-US localization updated in a timely fashion, with changes logically grouped and providing reasoning behind it (bug number) and all other goodies available to desktop translators wouldn't be that helpful. Simply because the file is bilingual (contains reference, en-US, locale strings)?
>
> So I think that your conclusion, that updating anything but en-US is the thing with impact, is simply wrong - we are more then capable of coping changes to locale files… and if one seeks convenience via en-US changes application to localized file by some helpful engineers and accepts all consequences then fine - but please, don't force that.
>
> Maybe I can help clarify here: Xcode exports all new string additions, as
> well as new groupings of strings in <file> elements, into per locale xliff
> files. This removes the need to copy/paste changes into locale files,
> because Xcode does that work for you. We're using this automation from
> Xcode to reduce headaches for localizers, as well as time spent performing
> more technical tasks. If it's causing you more headaches, however, and
> you'd prefer to manually copy/paste from the most up-to-date en-US source
> file into your locale file, that's fine, and we can do that too. Just let
> me know what is easiest for you.
>
> en-US is also still being updated with each export for a couple of
> reasons:
>
> 1) That is what Pootle uses as the base project.
> 2) New locales will want the most up-to-date source file available.
>
>
> So I think that your conclusion, that updating anything but en-US is the thing with impact, is simply wrong - we are more then capable of coping changes to locale files… and if one seeks convenience via en-US changes application to localized file by some helpful engineers and accepts all consequences then fine - but please, don't force that.
>
> Maybe I can help clarify here: Xcode exports all new string additions, as
> well as new groupings of strings in <file> elements, into per locale xliff
> files. This removes the need to copy/paste changes into locale files,
> because Xcode does that work for you. We're using this automation from
> Xcode to reduce headaches for localizers, as well as time spent performing
> more technical tasks. If it's causing you more headaches, however, and
> you'd prefer to manually copy/paste from the most up-to-date en-US source
> file into your locale file, that's fine, and we can do that too. Just let
> me know what is easiest for you.
>
> en-US is also still being updated with each export for a couple of
> reasons:
>
> 1) That is what Pootle uses as the base project.
> 2) New locales will want the most up-to-date source file available.
>
> Right, there is no app source code in XLIFF files but in order to understand what I'm going to translate I needed to grep app repository⁴. Do you use some other, more efficient method when there is not enough context?
>
> https://github.com/mozilla/firefox-ios/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=NSLocalizedString+Add+to+Bookmarks&type=Code is a query that you can probably modify to get good results. the NSLocalizedString in there is to get you callsites into the l10n infra. That's the only trick I have for you right now.
>
>
> https://github.com/mozilla/firefox-ios/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=NSLocalizedString+Add+to+Bookmarks&type=Code is a query that you can probably modify to get good results. the NSLocalizedString in there is to get you callsites into the l10n infra. That's the only trick I have for you right now.
>
> Github search is no good and the reason to use grep but maybe it would be possible to add repository to mxr.mozilla.org?
>
> Stefan, are you the one to ping with this question?
>
I don't know how useful MXR would be. Github has most of that functionality
>
> Stefan, are you the one to ping with this question?
>
I think?
About "Add to Bookmarks" - Every localized string should have a note
attached that explains the context of the string. If that note is missing,
like in this case, then we should fix that.
It seems that string, and it's buddy "Add to Reading List" are coming from
this dialog:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/fwv9gpc22ieg4kl/Screenshot%202014-11-19%2011.49.35.png?dl=0
I'll be happy to provide context here on the list too. Just make sure to
include iOS in the subject and i can post hints or screenshots where needed.
S.
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