Provide migration path in Firebug's "goodbye" message

[Soledad Penadés]

There has been a lot of sadness in social media about the demise of
Firebug. "But it is alive!", I thought... but who else knows that?

Yes, I know that it has been "unified" with devtools because I work in
Mozilla, but it isn't clear at all for outsiders that come to the
website and see that it has been discontinued.

Might I suggest that we slightly alter the header in Firebug's website
to add a sentence with a link to the post that explains the unification
and the reason for the discontinuation?

Right now it says:

"The Firebug extension isn't being developed or maintained any longer.
We invite you to use the Firefox built-in DevTools instead."

I suggest we have something like this instead:

"The Firebug extension isn't being developed or maintained any longer.
We invite you to use Firefox DevTools instead, which ship with Firebug.next"

the last sentence linking to ->
https://blog.getfirebug.com/2016/06/07/unifying-firebug-firefox-devtools/

What do you think? That post is a great explanation of why the change,
and gives way more context and 'current status' than the link from "any
longer" (which links to
https://blog.getfirebug.com/2016/02/08/merging-firebug-into-the-built-in-firefox-developer-tools/
)

I have sent a pull request for the website with the suggestion myself,
but I've no idea where the page code is. Sorry!

sole

--
http://soledadpenades.com

[Soledad Penadés]

On 13/12/2016 15:43, Soledad Penadés wrote:
> [...]

> I have sent a pull request for the website with the suggestion myself,
> but I've no idea where the page code is. Sorry!
>

correction: *I would have sent a pull request

--
http://soledadpenades.com

[Erik Krause]

Am 13.12.2016 um 16:43 schrieb Soledad Penadés:
> What do you think? That post is a great explanation of why the change,
> and gives way more context and 'current status' than the link from "any
> longer" (which links to
> https://blog.getfirebug.com/2016/02/08/merging-firebug-into-the-built-in-firefox-developer-tools/
> )

Definitely a good idea!

> I have sent a pull request for the website with the suggestion myself,
> but I've no idea where the page code is. Sorry!

As far as I know Jan Odvarko manages the getfirebug page:
http://www.softwareishard.com/blog/about/

--
Erik Krause

[Erik Krause]

Am 13.12.2016 um 16:43 schrieb Soledad Penadés:
> What do you think? That post is a great explanation of why the change,
> and gives way more context and 'current status' than the link from "any
> longer" (which links to
> https://blog.getfirebug.com/2016/02/08/merging-firebug-into-the-built-in-firefox-developer-tools/
> )

Probably there should also be a link to
https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Tools/Migrating_from_Firebug

--
Erik Krause

[Mike Taylor]

On 12/13/16 9:43 AM, Soledad Penadés wrote:
> There has been a lot of sadness in social media about the demise of
> Firebug. "But it is alive!", I thought... but who else knows that?

I have seen replies to tweets that make me suspect that some people just
have no idea that built-in devtools exist. Replies like, What are we
supposed to use now???". Seems odd to me, but I live in a browser vendor
bubble.

> Might I suggest that we slightly alter the header in Firebug's website
> to add a sentence with a link to the post that explains the unification
> and the reason for the discontinuation?

Have we considered publishing an add-on (from getfirebug.com) with the
Firebug icon that simply opens devtools with the firebug theme enabled?

--
Mike Taylor
Web Compat, Mozilla

[Jan Odvarko]

On Tuesday, December 13, 2016 at 4:43:22 PM UTC+1, Soledad Penadés wrote:
> I suggest we have something like this instead:
>
> "The Firebug extension isn't being developed or maintained any longer.
> We invite you to use Firefox DevTools instead, which ship with Firebug.next"

Done, please checkout getfirebug.com and let me know what you think.

I've also appended a link to the 'Migration from Firebug' guide on MDN

> I have sent a pull request for the website with the suggestion myself,
> but I've no idea where the page code is. Sorry!

The source isn't on github so, the best is to just ping me and I'll do it.

Jan Honza Odvarko

>
> sole
>
> --
> http://soledadpenades.com

[Jan Odvarko]

On Tuesday, December 13, 2016 at 7:26:10 PM UTC+1, Mike Taylor wrote:
> Have we considered publishing an add-on (from getfirebug.com) with the
> Firebug icon that simply opens devtools with the firebug theme enabled?

This is how Firebug itself should work. If installed on e10s enabled browser, clicking on the toolbar button (aka Firebug start button) with Firebug icon opens built-in DevTools instead of Firebug.

Honza

[Patrick Brosset]

Maybe we should blog again on this topic. What do you think?
I know we've done so multiple times in the past, but seeing how many people
were "surprised" by the recent retirement of Firebug, it might be helpful
to get the word out again.
Specifically, such a post could go over the reason for the change, what we
did about it, why, what features were "absorbed", and the fact that we're
still actively working on this and have identified many gaps to fill.
Hopefully this can help people realize that Firebug isn't really dead per
se, and that we understand and will continue making the situation better in
the future.

Let me know what you think and I can get a draft ready.

Patrick

On Wed, Dec 14, 2016 at 12:38 PM, Jan Odvarko <odv...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Tuesday, December 13, 2016 at 7:26:10 PM UTC+1, Mike Taylor wrote:

> > Have we considered publishing an add-on (from getfirebug.com) with the
> > Firebug icon that simply opens devtools with the firebug theme enabled?
>

> This is how Firebug itself should work. If installed on e10s enabled
> browser, clicking on the toolbar button (aka Firebug start button) with
> Firebug icon opens built-in DevTools instead of Firebug.
>
> Honza

> _______________________________________________
> dev-developer-tools mailing list
> dev-devel...@lists.mozilla.org
> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-developer-tools
>

[Mike Ratcliffe]

And that the devs are now also working on the new tools.

On 14/12/2016 14:03, Patrick Brosset wrote:
> Maybe we should blog again on this topic. What do you think?
> I know we've done so multiple times in the past, but seeing how many people
> were "surprised" by the recent retirement of Firebug, it might be helpful
> to get the word out again.
> Specifically, such a post could go over the reason for the change, what we
> did about it, why, what features were "absorbed", and the fact that we're
> still actively working on this and have identified many gaps to fill.
> Hopefully this can help people realize that Firebug isn't really dead per
> se, and that we understand and will continue making the situation better in
> the future.
>
> Let me know what you think and I can get a draft ready.
>
> Patrick
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 14, 2016 at 12:38 PM, Jan Odvarko <odv...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Tuesday, December 13, 2016 at 7:26:10 PM UTC+1, Mike Taylor wrote:

>>> Have we considered publishing an add-on (from getfirebug.com) with the
>>> Firebug icon that simply opens devtools with the firebug theme enabled?

[Soledad Penadés]

Yup! Those are all great points to mention! Not everyone follows Firebug
development.

What about this outline?

- We've discontinued Firebug development as a separate plugin because of
e10s

- But we had already migrated most of Firebug features into Firefox's
built-in DevTools. Even the lead Firebug developer works in the DevTools
team!

- The features that were migrated were X, Y, Z. In progress: R, S, T.
Will not be migrated: U, V, W. Will be shipped as separate plug-ins: L,
M, N.

- If you miss features, we're collecting feedback in this thread:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/mozilla.dev.developer-tools/iGXTwn0xRaU

- If you're a Firebug user, here's this guide to help you transition to
DevTools:
https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Tools/Migrating_from_Firebug

- We understand that disruption is always unwelcome but we are working
hard to ensure developers have the best possible tools, and sometimes
that means we need to refocus and use our resources wisely.

- We thank you for your loyalty and hope you understand us taking this
difficult decision.

- The Firebug spirit lives on every browser developer tool nowadays!

sole

On 14/12/2016 14:04, Mike Ratcliffe wrote:
> And that the devs are now also working on the new tools.
>
>
> On 14/12/2016 14:03, Patrick Brosset wrote:
>> Maybe we should blog again on this topic. What do you think?
>> I know we've done so multiple times in the past, but seeing how many people
>> were "surprised" by the recent retirement of Firebug, it might be helpful
>> to get the word out again.
>> Specifically, such a post could go over the reason for the change, what we
>> did about it, why, what features were "absorbed", and the fact that we're
>> still actively working on this and have identified many gaps to fill.
>> Hopefully this can help people realize that Firebug isn't really dead per
>> se, and that we understand and will continue making the situation better in
>> the future.
>>
>> Let me know what you think and I can get a draft ready.
>>
>> Patrick
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 14, 2016 at 12:38 PM, Jan Odvarko <odv...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Tuesday, December 13, 2016 at 7:26:10 PM UTC+1, Mike Taylor wrote:

>>>> Have we considered publishing an add-on (from getfirebug.com) with the
>>>> Firebug icon that simply opens devtools with the firebug theme enabled?

>>> This is how Firebug itself should work. If installed on e10s enabled
>>> browser, clicking on the toolbar button (aka Firebug start button) with
>>> Firebug icon opens built-in DevTools instead of Firebug.
>>>
>>> Honza
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> dev-developer-tools mailing list
>>> dev-devel...@lists.mozilla.org
>>> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-developer-tools
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> dev-developer-tools mailing list
>> dev-devel...@lists.mozilla.org
>> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-developer-tools
> _______________________________________________
> dev-developer-tools mailing list
> dev-devel...@lists.mozilla.org
> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-developer-tools

--
http://soledadpenades.com

[Bryan Clark]

+1 on the outline

>>>>> Have we considered publishing an add-on (from getfirebug.com) with the
>>>>> Firebug icon that simply opens devtools with the firebug theme enabled?
>>>>>

[Mike Taylor]

On 12/14/16 5:38 AM, Jan Odvarko wrote:
> On Tuesday, December 13, 2016 at 7:26:10 PM UTC+1, Mike Taylor wrote:

>> Have we considered publishing an add-on (from getfirebug.com) with the
>> Firebug icon that simply opens devtools with the firebug theme enabled?
>

> This is how Firebug itself should work. If installed on e10s enabled browser, clicking on the toolbar button (aka Firebug start button) with Firebug icon opens built-in DevTools instead of Firebug.

Nice. :)

[Patrick Brosset]

I just quickly threw some notes and links in here:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1_1yJZ14BJrQZ9oKJGBtSMHGC4MHjhGxxgs4vbPy73eo/edit
It doesn't look anything like a blog post now, but there's material to make
one. Feel free to contribute. I'll keep on spending time on this this week.

> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> On Tuesday, December 13, 2016 at 7:26:10 PM UTC+1, Mike Taylor wrote:
> >>>>

> >>>>> Have we considered publishing an add-on (from getfirebug.com) with
> the
> >>>>> Firebug icon that simply opens devtools with the firebug theme
> enabled?
> >>>>>

> >>>> This is how Firebug itself should work. If installed on e10s enabled
> >>>> browser, clicking on the toolbar button (aka Firebug start button)
> with
> >>>> Firebug icon opens built-in DevTools instead of Firebug.
> >>>>

[Erik Krause]

Am 14.12.2016 um 16:22 schrieb Soledad Penadés:
> What about this outline?

+1 Very good!

--
Erik Krause
Herchersgarten 1
79249 Merzhausen

[Patrick Brosset]

I spent some time on
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1_1yJZ14BJrQZ9oKJGBtSMHGC4MHjhGxxgs4vbPy73eo/edit
I could use reviews if people have some time!

Thanks a lot,
Patrick

[Jan Odvarko]

On Thursday, December 15, 2016 at 10:36:15 AM UTC+1, Patrick Brosset wrote:
> I spent some time on
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1_1yJZ14BJrQZ9oKJGBtSMHGC4MHjhGxxgs4vbPy73eo/edit
> I could use reviews if people have some time!

I did some changes directly in the text and created links to related bug reports.

Just to note that I am before my vacation so, I can't participate on this next 2 weeks.

Honza

[Patrick Brosset]

Thank you Sole, Honza and Julian for providing text, adding details and
correcting errors in the doc.
Let's give it another day or so in case other people want to contribute,
and then I'll move it to hacks.mozilla.org for a final editor review.

On Thu, Dec 15, 2016 at 1:08 PM, Jan Odvarko <odv...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Thursday, December 15, 2016 at 10:36:15 AM UTC+1, Patrick Brosset wrote:

> > I spent some time on
> > https://docs.google.com/document/d/1_1yJZ14BJrQZ9oKJGBtSMHGC4MHjhGx
> xgs4vbPy73eo/edit
> > I could use reviews if people have some time!
>

> I did some changes directly in the text and created links to related bug
> reports.
>
> Just to note that I am before my vacation so, I can't participate on this
> next 2 weeks.
>
> Honza

[Mike Taylor]

On 12/15/16 3:36 AM, Patrick Brosset wrote:
> I spent some time on
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1_1yJZ14BJrQZ9oKJGBtSMHGC4MHjhGxxgs4vbPy73eo/edit
> I could use reviews if people have some time!

I can't leave notes on the doc, so here are some!

> Firebug didn’t work in this new multi-process world and we agreed
that converting it would be extremely difficult. Firebug had never been
designed for such a scenario and making it work in this environment
would have required a huge rewrite.

These two sentences feel like they're saying the exact same thing.
Possible to consolidate into one?

> the next version of Firebug (code name: Firebug.next) would just be
the built-in Firefox DevTools themselves, but with a few added features.

Maybe you could say something like Firebug.next would build on top of
the built-in Firefox DevTools ("would just be" sounds like you've thrown
away everything, to me at least).

> And most importantly it made sense to work together on a best
developer tools rather than compete.

And most importantly, it made sense to join forces to build the best
developer tools together, rather than compete. (maybe?)

Looks great!

[Patrick Brosset]

Thanks Mike. I've added your comments to the doc.

[Jaroslav Šnajdr]

On Thu, Dec 15, 2016 at 10:39 PM, Mike Taylor <mi...@mozilla.com> wrote:

> > the next version of Firebug (code name: Firebug.next) would just be the
> built-in Firefox DevTools themselves, but with a few added features.
>
> Maybe you could say something like Firebug.next would build on top of the
> built-in Firefox DevTools ("would just be" sounds like you've thrown away
> everything, to me at least).
>

After reading the blog post draft and the discussion, I'm very confused
about what "Firebug.next" is. Is it a real addon that is or will be
available on AMO? If it is, what does it do? Or is it another name for the
built-in DevTools? Or a code name for the unification project (with
deliverables like Firebug theme or DOM panel)? Or something else? I have no
idea really.

Jarda

[Soledad Penadés]

I've put my Hacks contributor hat on and gone through the post 😃🎩

I think it's more Hacks-like now.

If you're happy with this, I can enter it as a draft and ping Havi so
she lines us up for editing/publishing.

sole

On 15/12/2016 15:48, Patrick Brosset wrote:
> Thank you Sole, Honza and Julian for providing text, adding details and
> correcting errors in the doc.
> Let's give it another day or so in case other people want to contribute,
> and then I'll move it to hacks.mozilla.org for a final editor review.
>
> On Thu, Dec 15, 2016 at 1:08 PM, Jan Odvarko <odv...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Thursday, December 15, 2016 at 10:36:15 AM UTC+1, Patrick Brosset wrote:

>>> I spent some time on
>>> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1_1yJZ14BJrQZ9oKJGBtSMHGC4MHjhGx
>> xgs4vbPy73eo/edit
>>> I could use reviews if people have some time!

>> I did some changes directly in the text and created links to related bug
>> reports.
>>
>> Just to note that I am before my vacation so, I can't participate on this
>> next 2 weeks.
>>
>> Honza

>> _______________________________________________
>> dev-developer-tools mailing list
>> dev-devel...@lists.mozilla.org
>> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-developer-tools
>>
> _______________________________________________
> dev-developer-tools mailing list
> dev-devel...@lists.mozilla.org
> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-developer-tools

--
http://soledadpenades.com

[Patrick Brosset]

+1

On Fri, Dec 16, 2016 at 11:43 AM, Soledad Penadés <so...@mozilla.com> wrote:

> I've put my Hacks contributor hat on and gone through the post 😃🎩
>
> I think it's more Hacks-like now.
>
> If you're happy with this, I can enter it as a draft and ping Havi so she
> lines us up for editing/publishing.
>
> sole
>
>
> On 15/12/2016 15:48, Patrick Brosset wrote:
>
>> Thank you Sole, Honza and Julian for providing text, adding details and
>> correcting errors in the doc.
>> Let's give it another day or so in case other people want to contribute,
>> and then I'll move it to hacks.mozilla.org for a final editor review.
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 15, 2016 at 1:08 PM, Jan Odvarko <odv...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> On Thursday, December 15, 2016 at 10:36:15 AM UTC+1, Patrick Brosset
>>> wrote:
>>>

>>>> I spent some time on
>>>> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1_1yJZ14BJrQZ9oKJGBtSMHGC4MHjhGx
>>>>
>>> xgs4vbPy73eo/edit
>>>
>>>> I could use reviews if people have some time!
>>>>

>>> I did some changes directly in the text and created links to related bug
>>> reports.
>>>
>>> Just to note that I am before my vacation so, I can't participate on this
>>> next 2 weeks.
>>>
>>> Honza

>>> _______________________________________________
>>> dev-developer-tools mailing list
>>> dev-devel...@lists.mozilla.org
>>> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-developer-tools
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>> dev-developer-tools mailing list
>> dev-devel...@lists.mozilla.org
>> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-developer-tools
>>
>

> --
> http://soledadpenades.com

[Soledad Penadés]

This is in the Hacks queue now ✅

On 16/12/2016 12:11, Patrick Brosset wrote:
> +1
>
> On Fri, Dec 16, 2016 at 11:43 AM, Soledad Penadés <so...@mozilla.com
> <mailto:so...@mozilla.com>> wrote:
>
> I've put my Hacks contributor hat on and gone through the post 😃🎩
>
> I think it's more Hacks-like now.
>
> If you're happy with this, I can enter it as a draft and ping Havi
> so she lines us up for editing/publishing.
>
> sole
>
>
> On 15/12/2016 15:48, Patrick Brosset wrote:
>
> Thank you Sole, Honza and Julian for providing text, adding
> details and
> correcting errors in the doc.
> Let's give it another day or so in case other people want to
> contribute,
> and then I'll move it to hacks.mozilla.org

> <http://hacks.mozilla.org> for a final editor review.

>
> On Thu, Dec 15, 2016 at 1:08 PM, Jan Odvarko
> <odv...@gmail.com <mailto:odv...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> On Thursday, December 15, 2016 at 10:36:15 AM UTC+1,
> Patrick Brosset wrote:
>

> I spent some time on
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1_1yJZ14BJrQZ9oKJGBtSMHGC4MHjhGx

> <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1_1yJZ14BJrQZ9oKJGBtSMHGC4MHjhGx>

>
> xgs4vbPy73eo/edit
>
> I could use reviews if people have some time!
>

> I did some changes directly in the text and created links
> to related bug
> reports.
>
> Just to note that I am before my vacation so, I can't
> participate on this
> next 2 weeks.
>
> Honza

> _______________________________________________
> dev-developer-tools mailing list
> dev-devel...@lists.mozilla.org

> <mailto:dev-devel...@lists.mozilla.org>
> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-developer-tools
> <https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-developer-tools>

>
> _______________________________________________
> dev-developer-tools mailing list
> dev-devel...@lists.mozilla.org

> <mailto:dev-devel...@lists.mozilla.org>
> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-developer-tools

> <https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-developer-tools>
>
>
> --
> http://soledadpenades.com
>
>

> _______________________________________________
> dev-developer-tools mailing list
> dev-devel...@lists.mozilla.org

> <mailto:dev-devel...@lists.mozilla.org>
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