Attn: 2001 RandMcN atlas owners...
MojaveNC
THIS TIME?
Please email to Moja...@SPAMlvcm.com you know what to delete
Gene Janczynskyi
> THIS TIME?
>
Myers insert, which connects to the new Veterans Mem. Pkwy not Everest Pkwy as
the 1997-2000 editions show.
--
--Witty quote temporary suspended--
Gene Janczynskyi
in Cape Coral, FL
Nathan Perry
<ejja...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> > Can someone can for me the Vegas inset so I can see how much they screwed up
> > THIS TIME?
> >
> I would also like to know if they fixed the Midpoint Mem. Bridge, in the Ft.
> Myers insert, which connects to the new Veterans Mem. Pkwy not Everest Pkwy as
> the 1997-2000 editions show.
I would like to know if they show the Robert Moses Parkway as running
uninterrupted through the Niagara Reservation State Park. No, of course
they don't, it hasn't been so since the early 1980's. BUT, their Niagara
Falls/Fort Erie map, with the cartography farmed out to another (Canadian,
IIRC) company, does show it so, and what's worse, this most egregious of
possible errors is shown in the map sample on the front cover!
--
_____________________________________________________________________
N.W.Perry __/ { Empire State Roads
Rochester, N.Y. 甍__ | http://empirestateroads.com
\|_=
A J Harris
Supply because I had the extra money. On the front sample, Interstate
220 in Jackson was called Interstate 275. It has more errors than any
other map I've seen.
In my opinion, Rand McNally should stop farming out cartographic duties
to other companies. For a while, they claimed some of Universal's
street maps, but Universal has taken them back and redesigned them.
In article <perryhq-1509...@news.frontiernet.net>,
per...@frontiernet.net (Nathan Perry) wrote:
> In article <8pserp$gr9$1...@slb7.atl.mindspring.net>, "Gene Janczynskyi"
> <ejja...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
> > > Can someone can for me the Vegas inset so I can see how much they
screwed up
> > > THIS TIME?
> > >
> > I would also like to know if they fixed the Midpoint Mem. Bridge,
in the Ft.
> > Myers insert, which connects to the new Veterans Mem. Pkwy not
Everest Pkwy as
> > the 1997-2000 editions show.
>
> I would like to know if they show the Robert Moses Parkway as running
> uninterrupted through the Niagara Reservation State Park. No, of
course
> they don't, it hasn't been so since the early 1980's. BUT, their
Niagara
> Falls/Fort Erie map, with the cartography farmed out to another
(Canadian,
> IIRC) company, does show it so, and what's worse, this most egregious
of
> possible errors is shown in the map sample on the front cover!
>
> --
> _____________________________________________________________________
> N.W.Perry __/ { Empire State Roads
> Rochester, N.Y. 甍__ | http://empirestateroads.com
> \|_=
>
--
My Miscellaneous Web Site
http://www.ajh.htmlplanet.com
A Miscellaneous Roadgeek Site
http://www.ajh.htmlplanet.com/docs/roads
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Chris Bessert
>
> Can someone can for me the Vegas inset so I can see how much they screwed up
> THIS TIME?
Here's what my 2001 RMcN shows that the 2000 does not:
o "CR-215" ("215" inside the normal rectangular "county road" symbol)
as a full freeway from the west end of I-215 at Decatur Blvd westerly
to just west of Durango Dr, then curving northerly, ending at the
local road running westerly from the end of the "Summerlin Pkwy"
south of Lake Mead Blvd. The atlas also shows an "under construction
freeway" from that point, across Lake Mead, ending at Cheyenne Ave.
o Sahara Ave extended west from Ft Apache Rd to end at an interchange
with the new "CR-215" freeway.
o Flamingo Rd, Tropicana Ave and Russell Rd all extended westerly to
end at interchanges with "CR-215" freeway.
o A new hospital where "Desert Springs Mall" used to be located.
On the Las Vegas Strip map:
o Added the following hotels: Four Seasons, Mandalay Bay, Bellagio,
Paris, The Venetiam.
o Sheraton Desert Inn is now just "Desert Inn."
o The "Thomas & Mack Center" at UNLV is gone.
Later,
Chris
--
Chris Bessert
Bess...@aol.com
http://members.aol.com/Hwys/
Chris Bessert
>
> > Can someone can for me the Vegas inset so I can see how much they screwed up
> > THIS TIME?
> >
> I would also like to know if they fixed the Midpoint Mem. Bridge, in the Ft.
> Myers insert, which connects to the new Veterans Mem. Pkwy not Everest Pkwy as
> the 1997-2000 editions show.
Sorry to say, it doesn't. Still connects to Everest Pkwy in 2001 edition...
Chris Bessert
>
> I would like to know if they show the Robert Moses Parkway as running
> uninterrupted through the Niagara Reservation State Park. No, of course
> they don't, it hasn't been so since the early 1980's. BUT, their Niagara
> Falls/Fort Erie map, with the cartography farmed out to another (Canadian,
> IIRC) company, does show it so, and what's worse, this most egregious of
> possible errors is shown in the map sample on the front cover!
Are you speaking of the regular Rand McNally Road Atlas? If so, the
entire atlas is made in Skokie. Since there is no Niagara Falls/Fort
Erie inset, the only map of those cities (outside the inset in the
New York state section) is a portion of the whole Ontario provinical
map. At that scale, it's pretty hard to show a small break in a high-
way such as that.
If you're talking about the special *Canadian Edition* of the Rand
McNally road atlas, then that's another story. In an effort to steer
customers away from MapArt's superior products, Rand McNally and/or
Allmaps Canada decided to issue a slightly different Canadian edition,
with about 4 wrap-around pages of Canadian content, featuring Allmaps
insets of different Canadian cities and some Canadian event information.
The rest of the inside of the atlas is exactly the same as the regular
version. Indeed, on the Niagara Falls inset map in the wrap-around
section, the Robert Moses Pkwy is incorrectly shown as Nathan describes.
BTW, the Canadian edition also featured a different cover (at least it
did in 1999 -- the last year I have one) with "CANADA * UNITED STATES *
MEXICO" instead of the usual "UNITED STATES * CANADA * MEXICO."
I suspect you were looking at a Canadian Edition, eh?
Chris Bessert
>
> That happened to me one time. I bought a map from a company called Map
> Supply because I had the extra money. On the front sample, Interstate
> 220 in Jackson was called Interstate 275. It has more errors than any
> other map I've seen.
Low budget map and/or company looking for profits over anything else =
bad cartography. For high quality maps at a reasonable price, take a
look at any Hedberg Maps product and you'll see what I mean...
> In my opinion, Rand McNally should stop farming out cartographic duties
> to other companies. For a while, they claimed some of Universal's
> street maps, but Universal has taken them back and redesigned them.
Not quite...
Until recently, Universal Map used other firms' cartography and just
added their own cover and distributed them. Over the past 4-5 years or
so, they've been attempting to draw some of their own maps out of their
production office in Cincinnati, with mediocre results.
Oftentimes, Rand McNally and Universal will end up distributing the
*exact same map* for many areas Rand has not deemed necessary to draw
their own yet. For example, yesterday at The Map Store in Columbus,
Ohio, I looked at getting the latest "Champaign/Urbana" map. The
Rand version was $3.95, but Universal's was only $2.95. Since the
actual map (the "inside") was the exact same map drawn by Seeger Map
Co. out of Racine, Wisconsin, I opted for the Universal version, and
saved a buck.
In a reversal of roles, I'll actually DEFEND Rand McNally for once and
applaud their latest efforts to draw their own maps. Over the past
four years or so, they've literally issued HUNDREDS! of titles created
by their own in-house people in Skokie. It was only ten years ago or
so that you could count the number of Rand-made titles on your two
hands. I think they were: NYC, Detroit, Chicago, San Franciso, Boston.
I'm sure there were a few more, but they had licensed most of their
other maps to folks like Champion, Dolph, Pierson, etc. But, since
that time, they've been drawing maps like crazy. I just yesterday
picked up two of their countless new StreetFinder road atlases featur-
ing this new cartorgraphy ("Cape Code & Southeastern Massachusetts"
and "Rhode Island" if you're curious) and they cover immense areas
Rand has never before covered!
While their new cartography is, by far, not the best, it's much better
than some of what was available before (Champion maps, anyone?) and in
areas never before covered by a national mapmaker.
As for not "farming out cartographic dutites"... If they didn't, it
would be much harder to find a map of your favorite small city at your
local gas station or bookstore. Of course, Rand is going to map the
largest cities first -- that's where more of the money is. Which means
the small towns sit on the back burner. Seeger Map, of Racine, makes
excellent maps of both large and small areas, as to several other
firms. So, the only way Rand McNally is going to be able to offer a
reasonably well-done map of, say, Springfield, Illinois, for now
they'll just go with the Seeger product. It's actually a pretty good
way of operating. BUT, from time to time, Rand selects an absolutely
AWFUL piece-of-crap, like the previous edition of their Jackson,
Mississippi map. Now, though, since they've re-drawn that map in-house,
it's much better (rated a B+ or so by myself) than what they had pre-
viously offered.
Later,
Chris
1234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890
SPUI
"Chris Bessert" <Bess...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:39C2C70A...@aol.com...
>
> In a reversal of roles, I'll actually DEFEND Rand McNally for once and
> applaud their latest efforts to draw their own maps. Over the past
> four years or so, they've literally issued HUNDREDS! of titles created
> by their own in-house people in Skokie. It was only ten years ago or
> so that you could count the number of Rand-made titles on your two
> hands. I think they were: NYC, Detroit, Chicago, San Franciso, Boston.
> I'm sure there were a few more, but they had licensed most of their
> other maps to folks like Champion, Dolph, Pierson, etc. But, since
> that time, they've been drawing maps like crazy. I just yesterday
> picked up two of their countless new StreetFinder road atlases featur-
> ing this new cartorgraphy ("Cape Code & Southeastern Massachusetts"
> and "Rhode Island" if you're curious) and they cover immense areas
> Rand has never before covered!
>
> While their new cartography is, by far, not the best, it's much better
> than some of what was available before (Champion maps, anyone?) and in
> areas never before covered by a national mapmaker.
Except FL - Dolph is usually better than RMcN, especially with interchanges.
Trakker is by far the worst of the major ones though. Luckily RMcN still
uses Dolph for many smaller counties. Gousha used to use Dolph as well.
--
Daniel Moraseski - from Orlando FL, originally from Manalapan NJ
Now attending MIT (Cambridge MA (near Boston))
http://spui.cjb.net/index.html - FL NJ and Boston roads, and a list of SPUIs
Editor of http://roadlinks.cjb.net (highway cat of Open Directory Project)
Mark Roberts
| In a reversal of roles, I'll actually DEFEND Rand McNally for once and
| applaud their latest efforts to draw their own maps.
| While their new cartography is, by far, not the best, it's much better
| than some of what was available before (Champion maps, anyone?) and in
| areas never before covered by a national mapmaker.
In California, it appears they've gone lock, stock, and barrel with
Thomas Brothers cartography. Thomas Brothers is now owned by RMcN,
of course, and has an excellent reputation, so it makes sense for
RMcN to use the Thomas Brothers maps rather than the maps it had
drawn previously. The RMcN maps now even have a little emblem on the
cover saying that they're Thomas Brothers maps.
With that being said, RMcN's last pre-Thomas StreetFinder for San
Francisco had what I believe is the "new" cartography (e.g., street
labels in the font Frutiger 47), and it was, in my opinion, a pretty
good effort. Likewise for RMcN's last pre-Thomas maps of Bay Area
and Monterey-area cities.
I am still trying to figure out the provenance of the maps in
another RMcN Bay Area publication, the San Francisco CrossStreet
[sic] Directory. The maps appear to be based on an earlier
generation of maps from a local cartographer, California Map
Service, but they also bear a vague resemblance to pre-digital CSAA
cartography. No matter, this is a *very* handy little book to have
if you ever have to find an address in San Francisco's street
system.
--
Mark Roberts | "Man guilty of smuggling lizards in his underwear"
San Francisco | -- _San Francisco Examiner_ headline, 9-8-2000
Nathan Perry
> If you're talking about the special *Canadian Edition* of the Rand
> McNally road atlas, then that's another story. In an effort to steer
> customers away from MapArt's superior products, Rand McNally and/or
> Allmaps Canada decided to issue a slightly different Canadian edition,
> with about 4 wrap-around pages of Canadian content, featuring Allmaps
> insets of different Canadian cities and some Canadian event information.
> The rest of the inside of the atlas is exactly the same as the regular
> version. Indeed, on the Niagara Falls inset map in the wrap-around
> section, the Robert Moses Pkwy is incorrectly shown as Nathan describes.
> BTW, the Canadian edition also featured a different cover (at least it
> did in 1999 -- the last year I have one) with "CANADA * UNITED STATES *
> MEXICO" instead of the usual "UNITED STATES * CANADA * MEXICO."
>
> I suspect you were looking at a Canadian Edition, eh?
Actually I was speaking about an individual folded street map, but I
believe it was Allmaps that did the carto for that and it was probably the
same used in the inset for the Canadian edition you speak of.
My point was, why would a company with reasonable standards for accuracy
(if not timeliness) allow its reputation to ride on somebody else's
blunder?
Nathan Perry
> A J Harris wrote:
> >
> > That happened to me one time. I bought a map from a company called Map
> > Supply because I had the extra money. On the front sample, Interstate
> > 220 in Jackson was called Interstate 275. It has more errors than any
> > other map I've seen.
>
> Low budget map and/or company looking for profits over anything else =
> bad cartography. For high quality maps at a reasonable price, take a
> look at any Hedberg Maps product and you'll see what I mean...
Hedberg produces the "Professor Pathfinder" series, right? Those are
incredible...I only wish they weren't limited to college areas.
Chris Bessert
>
> In article <39C2C70A...@aol.com>, Bess...@aol.com wrote:
>
> > A J Harris wrote:
> > >
> > > That happened to me one time. I bought a map from a company called Map
> > > Supply because I had the extra money. On the front sample, Interstate
> > > 220 in Jackson was called Interstate 275. It has more errors than any
> > > other map I've seen.
> >
> > Low budget map and/or company looking for profits over anything else =
> > bad cartography. For high quality maps at a reasonable price, take a
> > look at any Hedberg Maps product and you'll see what I mean...
>
> Hedberg produces the "Professor Pathfinder" series, right? Those are
> incredible...I only wish they weren't limited to college areas.
Yes, that's them, but lately they've been branching out into many other
areas as of late. First, they identified a need for local maps in their
home area of Minnesota, Iowa and Wisconsin. They've come out with an
*excellent* series of local city maps, far surpassing anything else
available. Plus, they've been issuing laminated folding vicinity maps
of the Twin Cities, Omaha, Milwaukee, Green Bay/Appleton, Northern
Minnesota, etc., which are just as excellent as their regular folding
map titles. I never hesitate to inspect any new map of theirs I come
across in a map or book store -- I just buy it!
Disclaimer: No, I don't work for Hedberg (I should be so lucky!), but
I am a trained cartographer... I can see a good, well-researched map
when I see one!
If you're interested in any of their titles, including both their
Professor Pathfinder series and their folding street maps, follow this
link to the Hedberg Maps listing at the MapLink website:
http://catalog.maplink.com/scripts/wsisa.dll/WService=MapLinkTest/partsearch.r?mapwild=HED
[Warning: Link above might wrap. It ends with "...mapwild=HED"]
If that wasn't enough, Hedberg has also been very busy lately with
producing maps for their "White Star Press" joint-venture with MapLink,
producing such titles as the "Titanic Reference Map," the "North
American Baseball Travel Map," the "World of Baseball" and the entire
"At The Millenium" map series, featuring many large cities across the
country, how they looked 100 years ago and today, featuring maps,
aerial photos, old-time birds-eye views, panoramic photographs, and
copious amounts of text on how the area has changed over the last
1,000 years! I've got Detroit and Cincinnati, and they're both very
interesting!
White Star Press publications can be found at:
http://catalog.maplink.com/scripts/wsisa.dll/WService=MapLinkTest/partsearch.r?mapwild=WSP
[Warning: Link above might wrap. It ends with "...mapwild=WSP"]
Later,
Chris, who has dropped many a dollar on Hedberg maps, especially
at Latitudes Map & Travel Store in Minneapolis, which ironically
used to be owned by Hedberg!
Chris Bessert
>
> In article <39C2C39F...@aol.com>, Bess...@aol.com wrote:
>
> > If you're talking about the special *Canadian Edition* of the Rand
> > McNally road atlas, then that's another story. In an effort to steer
> > customers away from MapArt's superior products, Rand McNally and/or
> > Allmaps Canada decided to issue a slightly different Canadian edition,
> > with about 4 wrap-around pages of Canadian content, featuring Allmaps
> > insets of different Canadian cities and some Canadian event information.
> > The rest of the inside of the atlas is exactly the same as the regular
> > version. Indeed, on the Niagara Falls inset map in the wrap-around
> > section, the Robert Moses Pkwy is incorrectly shown as Nathan describes.
> > BTW, the Canadian edition also featured a different cover (at least it
> > did in 1999 -- the last year I have one) with "CANADA * UNITED STATES *
> > MEXICO" instead of the usual "UNITED STATES * CANADA * MEXICO."
> >
> > I suspect you were looking at a Canadian Edition, eh?
>
> Actually I was speaking about an individual folded street map, but I
> believe it was Allmaps that did the carto for that and it was probably the
> same used in the inset for the Canadian edition you speak of.
>
> My point was, why would a company with reasonable standards for accuracy
> (if not timeliness) allow its reputation to ride on somebody else's
> blunder?
Technically, you were looking at a publication of Allmaps Canada, Ltd.,
which uses the Rand McNally name in Canada. I'm not sure of the precise
relationship between Rand McNally & Co. of the U.S. and Allmaps Canada,
Ltd., but I suspect Rand McNally either owns them outright, much like
Thomas Bros. is and Champion Maps was, or they're very closely affili-
ated with them. Allmaps didn't start using the Rand McNally name and
logo in Canada until maybe 4-5 years ago at most.
As for letting their reputation ride, as you mention above, that's a
good question. If *I* were Rand McNally & Co., I would sure be con-
cerned what Allmaps was putting *my* name on! And it might very well
be just that which prompted Allmaps to up the quality of their mapping,
attempting to regain much of the lost ground to local competitor
MapArt Publishing (now MapMedia Corporation).
In the end, you've still got two different companies using two different
sets of data and having two different foci (focuses?). You're bound to
have situations like this all over the place. As another example,
Rand McNally can never get Windsor, Ontario just right on any of their
Detroit, Michigan street maps, and Allmaps can never get Detroit just
right on their Windsor maps! I know the same holds true for Sault Ste.
Marie and Sarnia/Port Huron as well...
Later,
Chris
Froggie
> Chris, who has dropped many a dollar on Hedberg maps, especially
> at Latitudes Map & Travel Store in Minneapolis, which ironically
> used to be owned by Hedberg!
Wish I'd have known that 2 months ago when I was home...
Froggie | (who used to take the bus past Latitudes once a week) |
http://www.ajfroggie.com/roads/minnesota/
Darren Stuart Embry
> In a reversal of roles, I'll actually DEFEND Rand McNally for once
> and applaud their latest efforts to draw their own maps. Over the
> past four years or so, they've literally issued HUNDREDS! of titles
> created by their own in-house people in Skokie. It was only ten
> years ago or so that you could count the number of Rand-made titles
> on your two hands. I think they were: NYC, Detroit, Chicago, San
> Franciso, Boston.
I think you can add Lexington to this list. I have a version of their
Lexington map from the late 90s that has what looks like old RMcN
style cartography.
> I'm sure there were a few more, but they had licensed most of their
> other maps to folks like Champion, Dolph, Pierson, etc. But, since
> that time, they've been drawing maps like crazy.
``Crazy'' is about right. See my post from a couple weeks ago on this
topic. :)
--
Darren Stuart Embry. Cats won't get away from him. He sometimes
wishes they would. http://www.webonastick.com/
``Tyson was provoked by Holyfield. The videotape clearly shows
Holyfield hitting him.'' -- from The Onion
Chris Bessert
>
> <snip>
>
> > Chris, who has dropped many a dollar on Hedberg maps, especially
> > at Latitudes Map & Travel Store in Minneapolis, which ironically
> > used to be owned by Hedberg!
>
> Wish I'd have known that 2 months ago when I was home...
That it was once owned by Hedberg or that Latitudes exists?
Froggie
> That it was once owned by Hedberg or that Latitudes exists?
Neither.......the new map series........used to pass by Latitudes all
the time as a kid...
Froggie | Formerly of Minneapolis, MN |
Mike McManus
> As for letting their reputation ride, as you mention above, that's a
> good question. If *I* were Rand McNally & Co., I would sure be con-
> cerned what Allmaps was putting *my* name on! And it might very well
> be just that which prompted Allmaps to up the quality of their
> mapping, attempting to regain much of the lost ground to local
> competitor MapArt Publishing (now MapMedia Corporation).
In other words, RMcN said or at least hinted to Allmaps, "We've
upped our standards -- up yours!" ;-)