Shortest toll bridge/tunnel
Alan Hamilton
have toll roads that seem designed to capitalize on through traffic
(NJ, for example). The one spot that would be ideal for this sort of
thing in Arizona would be on I-15, but new interstate facilities
generally can't be made into toll facilities.
But then it occurred to me that bridges and tunnels may be
tolled, and there are some substantial bridges there. Free, of course
-- now.
Okay, it's not really a serious proposal. But it got me
thinking. Could a state slap a toll booth on a culvert over a wash
and collect $5? What's the smallest/shortest toll facility in the US?
--
/
/ * / Alan Hamilton
* * al...@primenet.com
Arizona Roads -- http://www.primenet.com/~alanh/road/
No ads, popups or watermarks ever
Ralph Herman
Island, but I'm sure many of the toll bridges spanning the Intracostal
Waterway up and down the East Coast are very similar in length.
Ralph
Rich Dean
Alan Hamilton <al...@primenet.com> wrote:
> This though came to me as I was musing how many eastern states
> have toll roads that seem designed to capitalize on through traffic
> (NJ, for example). The one spot that would be ideal for this sort of
> thing in Arizona would be on I-15, but new interstate facilities
> generally can't be made into toll facilities.
> But then it occurred to me that bridges and tunnels may be
> tolled, and there are some substantial bridges there. Free, of course
> -- now.
> Okay, it's not really a serious proposal. But it got me
> thinking. Could a state slap a toll booth on a culvert over a wash
> and collect $5? What's the smallest/shortest toll facility in the US?
> --
> /
While it is possible for governments to find toll bridges, tunnels
and roads to be profitable, the initial idea is to provide the means of
transportation without using taxpayer money. As for the shortest,
maybe it would be in Cape May County NJ where there are numerous county
owned toll bridges connecting various islands with the mainland.
> / * / Alan Hamilton
> * * al...@primenet.com
>
> Arizona Roads -- http://www.primenet.com/~alanh/road/
> No ads, popups or watermarks ever
>
--
Rich Dean, Butler NJ http://members.aol.com/rldean
Telecommunicator -- Borough of Butler since 1975
Member -- Kinney Hose Co. 1, Butler Fire Dept since 1973
Railfan -- Primarily New York, Susquehanna & Western Railway
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
C. P. Zilliacus
> This though came to me as I was musing how many eastern states
>have toll roads that seem designed to capitalize on through traffic
>(NJ, for example). The one spot that would be ideal for this sort of
>thing in Arizona would be on I-15, but new interstate facilities
>generally can't be made into toll facilities.
> But then it occurred to me that bridges and tunnels may be
>tolled, and there are some substantial bridges there. Free, of course
>-- now.
> Okay, it's not really a serious proposal. But it got me
>thinking. Could a state slap a toll booth on a culvert over a wash
>and collect $5? What's the smallest/shortest toll facility in the US?
The causeway over Biscayne Bay between Miami and Miami Beach
was tolled (as of the early-to-mid-1980's), and it was pretty
short, as I recall.
There were parallel crossings that were not tolled.
Although I am confident that it isn't nearly the shortest,
the Coleman Bridge that carries U.S. 17 over the York River
is relatively short (even though it's a BIG bridge), and
probably the shortest toll facility in Virginia.
In Md., I'd think the Hatem Bridge that carries U.S. 40
over the Susquehanna River, just before it empties in to
the Chesapeake Bay, is probably the shortest toll
facility in the state. Again, it's rather big, consisting
of two bridges.
There was the "low water" private toll bridge across the
Potomac (far upstream from Washington), but that crossing
was closed by Maryland officials because it was deemed
unsafe. Also White's Ferry, which is also private, but not
a bridge and not a road.
Matthew Staller
bridge, are quite short. On Long Island, the Shelter Island auto ferries
are *quite* expensive given the rather small volume of water crossed.
Rich Dean wrote:
> In article <85m684$5t$1...@nnrp02.primenet.com>,
> Alan Hamilton <al...@primenet.com> wrote:
> > This though came to me as I was musing how many eastern states
> > have toll roads that seem designed to capitalize on through traffic
> > (NJ, for example). The one spot that would be ideal for this sort of
> > thing in Arizona would be on I-15, but new interstate facilities
> > generally can't be made into toll facilities.
> > But then it occurred to me that bridges and tunnels may be
> > tolled, and there are some substantial bridges there. Free, of course
> > -- now.
> > Okay, it's not really a serious proposal. But it got me
> > thinking. Could a state slap a toll booth on a culvert over a wash
> > and collect $5? What's the smallest/shortest toll facility in the US?
Ray Mullins
Alan Hamilton <al...@primenet.com> wrote:
> This though came to me as I was musing how many eastern states
>have toll roads that seem designed to capitalize on through traffic
>(NJ, for example). The one spot that would be ideal for this sort of
>thing in Arizona would be on I-15, but new interstate facilities
>generally can't be made into toll facilities.
> But then it occurred to me that bridges and tunnels may be
>tolled, and there are some substantial bridges there. Free, of course
>-- now.
> Okay, it's not really a serious proposal. But it got me
>thinking. Could a state slap a toll booth on a culvert over a wash
>and collect $5? What's the smallest/shortest toll facility in the US?
In the city of Oceanside, CA, there is (used to be?) a toll bridge (northbound
only) on College Blvd. over the San Luis Rey "River" (of course, you know
our rivers in Southern California are nothing of the sort). My understanding
is that as part of the housing development just to the north, the developer
had to extend College Blvd. from Mission Rd. (across the lower right in the
mapped URL below). He didn't have enough money, so as part of a compromise
a toll was (is) collected northbound. But looking at the development that
has occurred in the area since I was last there (1988), I'm sure that that
toll is long gone.
(If I screwed up typing in the URL, use "Vandegrift & College, Oceanside CA"
in your favorite online mapper - cut and paste doesn't work very well in this
terminal emulator.)
Later,
Ray
--
M. Ray Mullins Big Bear City, California home of the other MARTA ICQ# 28901695
California Transit Publications - your one stop shop for transit marketing,
publications, planning and web services at http://www.catransit.com/ TIPs:
http://socaltip.lerctr.org http://norcaltip.lerctr.org http://cencaltip.lerctr.org
Jim Guthrie
Alan Hamilton wrote in message <85m684$5t$1...@nnrp02.primenet.com>...
> This though came to me as I was musing how many eastern states What's the
smallest/shortest toll facility in the US?
Not in the US, but in part of the UAE (Dubai?). A new hotel has been built
on its own island. It is the tallest and most expensive in the world. To
discourage tourists from even approaching it, there is a toll on approach of
$40 for all access other than those on hotel business, guests, or explicitly
invited visitors to guests.
>--
> /
cbl...@my-deja.com
> This though came to me as I was musing how many eastern states
> have toll roads that seem designed to capitalize on through traffic
> (NJ, for example). The one spot that would be ideal for this sort of
> thing in Arizona would be on I-15, but new interstate facilities
> generally can't be made into toll facilities.
This does not directly answer your question, but I have always wondered
about that short Arizona section of I-15. As it was Interstate highway
and built/rebuilt with 90% federal money, the 10% share of the
construction of a 25 mile piece of highway can't have been too
significant to Arizona. Maybe a few million dollars 30 years ago. Water
under the bridge. But as that road is maintained by Arizona's DOT,
their staff has to go hundreds of miles out of their way to maintain it.
Wouldn't it be better if Arizona makes an agreement with Utah or Nevada
for them to take over responsibility for maintaining I-15 through
Arizona. As Utahns and Nevadans derive the most benefit from I-15,
those states should pay to maintain it. Arizona can always threaten to
buy the road from the federal government and put up a $5 or $10 toll
booth. It would probably be easier to arrange something with Nevada, as
both Arizona and Nevada are paying for at least part of the US-93
rerouting around Hoover Dam. As Arizonans would derive a greater
benefit by this rerouting, Arizona could take a greater maintenance
share of US-93 around Hoover Dam in return for Nevada taking over
maintenance of I-15.
Precedent for this does exist: I-86 (NY-17) through New York. The
highway starts at I-90 in PA, maintained by PennDOT. The road goes into
New York for most of the rest of its journey, except for a 1.5 mile
section near Sayre, PA. This road, while totally within Pennsylvania,
is maintained by NYSDOT by prior agreement. NYSDOT also maintains that
short stretch of I-684 that dips into Connecticut.
Chris Blaney
ze...@magicnet.net
not very long.
----------
In article <85m684$5t$1...@nnrp02.primenet.com>, Alan Hamilton
<al...@primenet.com> wrote:
> This though came to me as I was musing how many eastern states
> have toll roads that seem designed to capitalize on through traffic
> (NJ, for example). The one spot that would be ideal for this sort of
> thing in Arizona would be on I-15, but new interstate facilities
> generally can't be made into toll facilities.
> But then it occurred to me that bridges and tunnels may be
> tolled, and there are some substantial bridges there. Free, of course
> -- now.
> Okay, it's not really a serious proposal. But it got me
> thinking. Could a state slap a toll booth on a culvert over a wash
> and collect $5? What's the smallest/shortest toll facility in the US?
RichLaud
>> and collect $5?
sure
why do you think we call them states?
Rush Wickes
>In <85m684$5t$1...@nnrp02.primenet.com>, Alan Hamilton <al...@primenet.com> writes:
>> This though came to me as I was musing how many eastern states
>>have toll roads that seem designed to capitalize on through traffic
>>(NJ, for example). The one spot that would be ideal for this sort of
>>thing in Arizona would be on I-15, but new interstate facilities
>>generally can't be made into toll facilities.
>> But then it occurred to me that bridges and tunnels may be
>>tolled, and there are some substantial bridges there. Free, of course
>>-- now.
>> Okay, it's not really a serious proposal. But it got me
>>thinking. Could a state slap a toll booth on a culvert over a wash
>>and collect $5? What's the smallest/shortest toll facility in the US?
>
> The causeway over Biscayne Bay between Miami and Miami Beach
> was tolled (as of the early-to-mid-1980's), and it was pretty
> short, as I recall.
>
> There were parallel crossings that were not tolled.
>
> Although I am confident that it isn't nearly the shortest,
> the Coleman Bridge that carries U.S. 17 over the York River
> is relatively short (even though it's a BIG bridge), and
> probably the shortest toll facility in Virginia.
It is only 2,500 feet in total length I believe.
> In Md., I'd think the Hatem Bridge that carries U.S. 40
> over the Susquehanna River, just before it empties in to
> the Chesapeake Bay, is probably the shortest toll
> facility in the state. Again, it's rather big, consisting
> of two bridges.
The Hatem Bridge is probably at least one mile in length, as it does
cross over two seperate channels and an island in the middle.
What about some of the crossings over the Delaware River way upstream
in between Pennsylvania and New Jersey? Some of those crossings look
awfully short from the map representation.
--
Rush Wickes -- remove the '-' to reply via e-mail
http://www.southside.org/~rush/
Oscar Voss
> > Okay, it's not really a serious proposal. But it got me
> >thinking. Could a state slap a toll booth on a culvert over a wash
> >and collect $5? What's the smallest/shortest toll facility in the US?
>
> In the city of Oceanside, CA, there is (used to be?) a toll bridge (northbound
> only) on College Blvd. over the San Luis Rey "River" (of course, you know
> our rivers in Southern California are nothing of the sort). My understanding
> is that as part of the housing development just to the north, the developer
> had to extend College Blvd. from Mission Rd. (across the lower right in the
> mapped URL below). He didn't have enough money, so as part of a compromise
> a toll was (is) collected northbound. But looking at the development that
> has occurred in the area since I was last there (1988), I'm sure that that
> toll is long gone.
Oceanside is my home town. The toll was still there when I last visited
family in October 1998. A 50-cent toll is collected westbound (not
northbound).
When it was first built, the road was called Murray Road, and basically
was used mainly by Marines stationed at the Camp Pendleton Marine Corps
base, and their families who went to the base for low-cost shopping,
etc., who lived in communities in the east along Highway 76 (very
conveniently for Oceanside city officials, most of them lived outside
city limits). Later, College Boulevard was extended several miles from
near Highway 78 to connect with Highway 76 at the intersection with
Murray Road, which was then absorbed into College Blvd. The College
Blvd. extension means more Oceanside residents use the bridge now, but
since the tolls are needed to repay bridge bonds, the tolls remain.
As I recall, when the toll bridge was built there was very little
development along Murray Road. It was built because the city got tired
of rebuilding the low culverts over the San Luis Rey River every time
they washed out when the river flooded (i.e., every time it rained).
With all those Marines and their dependents relying on the road to avoid
several miles of backtracking, permanently closing the road was not an
attractive option. There is a lot of development now, but that came
later (to all parts of Oceanside not off-limits for some reason, not
just to the Murray Road corridor).
The bridge is certainly a candidate for "shortest toll bridge" -- can't
be more than 150-200 feet long (not counting a few hundred feet of
additional "toll" pavement at the ends of the bridge, between the toll
plaza and North River Road).
> (If I screwed up typing in the URL, use "Vandegrift & College,
> Oceanside CA" in your favorite online mapper - cut and paste
> doesn't work very well in this terminal emulator.)
That might not work, since College Blvd. doesn't quite intersect with
Vandegrift Blvd. College ends at four-lane North River Road. A few
hundred feet north of that intersection, North River hangs a right onto
a two-lane road following the river, and four-lane Vandegrift goes
straight ahead north to the Marine base rear gate.
--
Oscar Voss, Arlington, Virginia, ov...@erols.com
My Hot Springs and Highways pages: http://users.erols.com/ovoss/
Peter Rosa
Rush Wickes wrote:
>
> What about some of the crossings over the Delaware River way upstream
> in between Pennsylvania and New Jersey? Some of those crossings look
> awfully short from the map representation.
Some of them indeed are quite short. The Delaware River is
non-navigable in the area, hardly a mighty watercourse. Several years
back I was most surprised to encounter a toll on the Milford-Montague
bridge - it just didn't seem big enough for one.
--
Peter Rosa
PR...@prodigy.net
pros...@yahoo.com
R32...@aol.com
Steve Riner
news:85m684$5t$1...@nnrp02.primenet.com...
> Okay, it's not really a serious proposal. But it got me
> thinking. Could a state slap a toll booth on a culvert over a wash
> and collect $5? What's the smallest/shortest toll facility in the US?
Maybe not THE shortest, but one that comes to mind is the international
bridge over the Rainy River from International Falls MN to Fort Frances ON.
This short bridge is actually owned by Boise Cascade Corp., which has a
paper mill on both sides of the border at that point. There is also a toll
bridge at Baudette MN across the same river to Ontario (the westernmost
crossing from the U.S. to Ontario), but I haven't actually been on it.
--
Steve Riner
Columbia Heights MN
Explore Minnesota Highways of the Past and Present at:
http://www.frontiernet.net/~riner/main_hwy.htm
Jeff Taylor
news:73gv7soevp70uveni...@4ax.com...
> On 14 Jan 2000 14:56:45 GMT, cp...@ibm.net (C. P. Zilliacus) wrote:
>
> >In <85m684$5t$1...@nnrp02.primenet.com>, Alan Hamilton <al...@primenet.com>
writes:
> >> This though came to me as I was musing how many eastern states
> >>have toll roads that seem designed to capitalize on through traffic
> >>(NJ, for example). The one spot that would be ideal for this sort of
> >>thing in Arizona would be on I-15, but new interstate facilities
> >>generally can't be made into toll facilities.
> >> But then it occurred to me that bridges and tunnels may be
> >>tolled, and there are some substantial bridges there. Free, of course
> >>-- now.
> >>thinking. Could a state slap a toll booth on a culvert over a wash
> >>and collect $5? What's the smallest/shortest toll facility in the US?
> >
> > was tolled (as of the early-to-mid-1980's), and it was pretty
> > short, as I recall.
> >
> > There were parallel crossings that were not tolled.
> >
> > Although I am confident that it isn't nearly the shortest,
> > the Coleman Bridge that carries U.S. 17 over the York River
> > is relatively short (even though it's a BIG bridge), and
> > probably the shortest toll facility in Virginia.
>
> It is only 2,500 feet in total length I believe.
>
> > In Md., I'd think the Hatem Bridge that carries U.S. 40
> > over the Susquehanna River, just before it empties in to
> > the Chesapeake Bay, is probably the shortest toll
> > facility in the state. Again, it's rather big, consisting
> > of two bridges.
>
> The Hatem Bridge is probably at least one mile in length, as it does
> cross over two seperate channels and an island in the middle.
>
> in between Pennsylvania and New Jersey? Some of those crossings look
> awfully short from the map representation.
>
The US 1 Bridge from Trenton to Morrisville has a 50 cent toll SB only
(leaving NJ). The bridge is no more than 2000 feet long.
few...@my-deja.com
anywhere!
The toll bridge on College Bvd in Oceanside, CA is
still in place and it now costs 50 cents to cross
the San Louis Rey de Francia River wash
northbound. Total width: maybe 75 feet!
Come see it yourself sometime. Then enjoy the
beach, the scenery and all the SoCal attractions.
Jerry & Penny, Innkeepers in Oceanside
http://fewo.travel.webjump.com
In article <FoBzs...@lerami.lerctr.org>,
m...@lerami.lerctr.org (Ray Mullins) wrote:
> In article <85m684$5t$1...@nnrp02.primenet.com>,
> Alan Hamilton <al...@primenet.com> wrote:
> > This though came to me as I was musing how
many eastern states
> >have toll roads that seem designed to
capitalize on through traffic
> >(NJ, for example). The one spot that would be
ideal for this sort of
> >thing in Arizona would be on I-15, but new
interstate facilities
> >generally can't be made into toll facilities.
> > But then it occurred to me that bridges
and tunnels may be
> >tolled, and there are some substantial bridges
there. Free, of course
> >-- now.
> > Okay, it's not really a serious proposal.
But it got me
> >thinking. Could a state slap a toll booth on a
culvert over a wash
> >and collect $5? What's the smallest/shortest
toll facility in the US?
>
> In the city of Oceanside, CA, there is (used to
be?) a toll bridge (northbound
> only) on College Blvd. over the San Luis Rey
"River" (of course, you know
> our rivers in Southern California are nothing of
the sort). My understanding
> is that as part of the housing development just
to the north, the developer
> had to extend College Blvd. from Mission Rd.
(across the lower right in the
> mapped URL below). He didn't have enough money,
so as part of a compromise
> a toll was (is) collected northbound. But
looking at the development that
> has occurred in the area since I was last there
(1988), I'm sure that that
> toll is long gone.
>
>
http://maps.yahoo.com/py/maps.py?Pyt=Tmap&addr=van
degrift+%26+college&csz=oceanside%2c+ca&Get%A0Map=
Get+Map
>
> (If I screwed up typing in the URL, use
"Vandegrift & College, Oceanside CA"
> in your favorite online mapper - cut and paste
doesn't work very well in this
> terminal emulator.)
>
> Later,
> Ray
> --
> M. Ray Mullins Big Bear City, California home of
the other MARTA ICQ# 28901695
> California Transit Publications - your one stop
shop for transit marketing,
> publications, planning and web services at
http://www.catransit.com/ TIPs:
> http://socaltip.lerctr.org
http://norcaltip.lerctr.org
http://cencaltip.lerctr.org
>
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
S.J.Carras
respectively, are and were candidates.
poporc...@onelist.com
20s-to-50...@onelist.com/
buffy...@eskimo.com
For more visit www.onelist.com
[Hyperlink eliminated for the hyperlink-wise challenged.
Anyone using my name on an e-mailing list will be reported.
Ron Newman
gca...@aol.combination (S.J.Carras) wrote:
> Too many to mention here but the Dumbarton bridge, and previous one,
> respectively, are and were candidates.
I really doubt the Dumbarton even comes close. It feels like a
large structure when I drive over it.
--
Ron Newman rne...@thecia.net
http://www2.thecia.net/users/rnewman/
Rich Dean
Matthew Staller <dark...@dr.com> wrote:
> Some of the toll bridges over the Delaware, notably the Dingmans Ferry
> bridge, are quite short.
The Dingman's Bridge is still privately owned after all this time.
CBS Sunday Morning featured a story a few years ago by Bill Geist about
this bridge and the way it operates. It dates back to the mid 19th
century, mabye earlier. Nowadays it is surrounded by the Delaware
River National Recreation Area. It doesn't take E-Z pass, doesn't even
take tokens but the attendant standing in the middle of the road will
take exact change. Periodically the owner closes the bridge to repair
or replace boards on the deck.
--
Rich Dean, Butler NJ http://members.aol.com/rldean
Telecommunicator -- Borough of Butler since 1975
Member -- Kinney Hose Co. 1, Butler Fire Dept since 1973
Railfan -- Primarily New York, Susquehanna & Western Railway
Rich Dean
>
> What about some of the crossings over the Delaware River way upstream
> in between Pennsylvania and New Jersey? Some of those crossings look
> awfully short from the map representation.
>
> --
> Rush Wickes -- remove the '-' to reply via e-mail
> http://www.southside.org/~rush/
>
While I've never taken the time to record the measurements I've
driven over most of the toll bridges between NJ and PA, my guess is
that they are all at least 500 feet. The Delaware River Joint Toll
Bridge Commission operates them at US 1/Trenton NJ/Morrisville PA, US
202/Lambertville NJ/New Hope PA, I-78/Phillipsburg NJ/Easton PA, US
22/Phillipsburg NJ/Easton PA, Columbia NJ/Portland PA, I-80/Delaware
Water Gap, and Montague NJ/Milford PA; the I-95/Scudders Falls bridge
upstream from Trenton was still signed "maintained by the DRJTBC" but
the toll plaza was abolished years ago.
There are older non-toll bridges at various locations such as
Washington Crossing, Lambertville/New Hope, Stockton NJ, Frenchtown NJ,
Milford NJ, Phllipsburg NJ/Easton PA, and Belvidere NJ. I'm not sure
who owns them.
Rich Dean
The Delaware River Joint Toll Bridge Commission does offer a roll
of tokens at the rate $4 for 40. A token is good for each 50 cents.
I've seen signs at some gas stations offering a token with a purchase.
Rich Dean
Lisa or Jeff
> century, mabye earlier. Nowadays it is surrounded by the Delaware
> River National Recreation Area. It doesn't take E-Z pass, doesn't even
> take tokens but the attendant standing in the middle of the road will
> take exact change. Periodically the owner closes the bridge to repair
> or replace boards on the deck.
Sure caught me by surprise when I crossed it. There was this woman
standing in the center of the road, with a newsboy's apron, taking
the 40c toll.
I wonder if the tolls are regulated by either state's PUC or the ICC/STB.
Peter Rosa
Rich Dean wrote:
> The Dingman's Bridge is still privately owned after all this time.
> CBS Sunday Morning featured a story a few years ago by Bill Geist about
> this bridge and the way it operates. It dates back to the mid 19th
> century, mabye earlier. Nowadays it is surrounded by the Delaware
> River National Recreation Area. It doesn't take E-Z pass, doesn't even
> take tokens but the attendant standing in the middle of the road will
> take exact change. Periodically the owner closes the bridge to repair
> or replace boards on the deck.
There is (or until recently was) a privately owned toll bridge over the
Potomac River that was operated in a similarly "quaint" manner. IIRC it
runs between Oldtown, Maryland and Green Spring, West Virginia.
ad...@interlog.com
> > this bridge and the way it operates. It dates back to the mid 19th
> > century, mabye earlier. Nowadays it is surrounded by the Delaware
> > River National Recreation Area. It doesn't take E-Z pass, doesn't even
> > take tokens but the attendant standing in the middle of the road will
> > take exact change. Periodically the owner closes the bridge to repair
> > or replace boards on the deck.
>
> Sure caught me by surprise when I crossed it. There was this woman
> standing in the center of the road, with a newsboy's apron, taking
> the 40c toll.
>
> I wonder if the tolls are regulated by either state's PUC or the ICC/STB.
Remind me once again. Has the old Roebling aqueduct bridge at Lackawaxen
been mentioned yet?
Shalom Septimus
wrote:
>Some of the toll bridges over the Delaware, notably the Dingmans Ferry
>bridge, are quite short.
I was going to mention US 206, just north of there.
Dingman's Bridge, if I remember correctly, costs about 25c. less than
the other bridges over the Delaware. It also has a tollbooth on the
*right* (as you go west), and a toll collector who comes out and
stands in the middle of the roadway making change and then goes back
into the booth... only toll booth I've ever seen like that.
I've also heard that this bridge is privately owned and operated...
any truth to this?
Bob Chessick
still is through Canadian Pacific) a railroad. I think today it is a
pedestrian bridge.
<ad...@interlog.com> wrote in message news:3883DEB9...@interlog.com...
Matthew Staller
It is part of the Upper Delaware Scenic and Recreational River park system. See
nps.gov/upde/ for brief detail.
I've driven across the bridge a couple of times. It's neat how the old canal
walls rise well above driver eye-level, while the river (invisible) flows
below.
Ron Newman
Matthew stated...
>
>The Roebling Bridge carries vehicular and pedestrian traffic. It is not tolled.
This brings a question to my mind:
Do any toll bridges in North America charge a toll for pedestrians?
How about for bicycles?
--
Ron Newman rne...@thecia.net
http://www2.thecia.net/users/rnewman/home.html
Snowmaster
Ron Newman wrote:
> On Tue, 18 Jan 2000 12:57:30 -0500, in article <3884A981...@dr.com>,
> Matthew stated...
> >
> >The Roebling Bridge carries vehicular and pedestrian traffic. It is not tolled.
>
> This brings a question to my mind:
>
> Do any toll bridges in North America charge a toll for pedestrians?
> How about for bicycles?
The Bear Mtn. in NY charges hikers on the Appalatian Trail 10 cents a head.
Snowmaster
David Eerdmans
Ron Newman <rne...@thecia.net> schreef in artikel
<862bic$g...@edrn.newsguy.com>...
> On Tue, 18 Jan 2000 12:57:30 -0500, in article
<3884A981...@dr.com>,
> Matthew stated...
> >
> >The Roebling Bridge carries vehicular and pedestrian traffic. It is not
tolled.
>
> This brings a question to my mind:
>
> Do any toll bridges in North America charge a toll for pedestrians?
> How about for bicycles?
I'm pretty sure the large bridge, I believe it's called Rainbow Bridge in
Niagara Falls between Canada and the USA charges a toll for pedestrians...
Greetz,
David Eerdmans
Rush Wickes
>On Tue, 18 Jan 2000 12:57:30 -0500, in article <3884A981...@dr.com>,
>Matthew stated...
>>
>>The Roebling Bridge carries vehicular and pedestrian traffic. It is not tolled.
>
>This brings a question to my mind:
>
>Do any toll bridges in North America charge a toll for pedestrians?
>How about for bicycles?
The George Washington Bridge across the Hudson River used to be tolled
when it first opened. The tolls for pedestrian and bicycle traffic
have long since been abandoned. However when it first opened, it was
cheaper to ride a bus (5 cent fare) across the bridge than use the
sidewalk (10 cent toll).
I believe there is still a bridge up in Vermont somewhere that
collects a 1 1/2 cent or other quirky toll for pedestrians. Next
time I'm on Deja.com, I will take a look for the post.
D Outen
"Ron Newman" <rne...@thecia.net> wrote in message
news:862bic$g...@edrn.newsguy.com...
> On Tue, 18 Jan 2000 12:57:30 -0500, in article
<3884A981...@dr.com>,
> Matthew stated...
> >
> >The Roebling Bridge carries vehicular and pedestrian traffic. It is
not tolled.
>
> This brings a question to my mind:
>
> Do any toll bridges in North America charge a toll for pedestrians?
> How about for bicycles?
>
Been a long time, but IIRC, the Royal Gorge Suspension Bridge in
Colorado does. But then that bridge really was built as a tourist
attraction and not a component of the road network.
Dave
ad...@interlog.com
> I'm pretty sure the large bridge, I believe it's called Rainbow Bridge in
> Niagara Falls between Canada and the USA charges a toll for pedestrians...
It does. And it's worth it.
Ron Newman
<bmg...@mtu.edu> wrote:
> : Do any toll bridges in North America charge a toll for pedestrians?
> : How about for bicycles?
>
> If I recall, the Blue Water Bridge, the Ambassador Bridge, and the
> International Bridge all have pedestrian and bicycle tolls.
Where are the "Blue Water Bridge" and "International Bridge"?
Does anyone know what the tolls are
for peds and bicycles on any of these bridges?
Rich Dean
ad...@interlog.com wrote:
.
>
> Remind me once again. Has the old Roebling aqueduct bridge at
Lackawaxen
> been mentioned yet?
>
my memory. It was restored in the 1980's. I think it's part of the
Upper Delaware National Recreation Area.
--
Rich Dean, Butler NJ http://members.aol.com/rldean
Telecommunicator -- Borough of Butler since 1975
Member -- Kinney Hose Co. 1, Butler Fire Dept since 1973
Railfan -- Primarily New York, Susquehanna & Western Railway
Leo Auray
>the other bridges over the Delaware. It also has a tollbooth on the
>*right* (as you go west), and a toll collector who comes out and
>stands in the middle of the roadway making change and then goes back
>into the booth... only toll booth I've ever seen like that.
>
The Dingman's Ferry bridge toll is 75c. The toll house dates to the middle of
the last century, when horses and carriages traversed the nation's roadways,
and very often the rider would dismount and go into the toll house to pay the
toll and perhaps get a little refreshment, as well. (Some Toll House cookies,
perhaps?*) The toll taker would then, if there was one, turn the pike. Toll
booths, on the other hand, are a product of the automotive age, when automobile
drivers wouldn't be expected to get out of their cars to pay the toll.
*Yes, i know that Toll House Cookies (TM) were actually conceived in the
kitchen of a New England inn, but supposedly the inspiration for them was
served at a toll house...
Leo Auray
Phillipsburg, NJ
Brandon M. Gorte
: On Tue, 18 Jan 2000 12:57:30 -0500, in article <3884A981...@dr.com>,
: Matthew stated...
: >
: >The Roebling Bridge carries vehicular and pedestrian traffic. It is not tolled.
: This brings a question to my mind:
: Do any toll bridges in North America charge a toll for pedestrians?
: How about for bicycles?
If I recall, the Blue Water Bridge, the Ambassador Bridge, and the
International Bridge all have pedestrian and bicycle tolls.
The Mackinac Bridge has a toll for this, but you have to wait for the bus
to take you over.
Brandon Gorte
Undergrad in Geological Engineering
Michigan Technological University, Houghton, MI
<http://www.geo.mtu.edu/~bmgorte/freeway.html>
Brian A Doreste
On Tue, 18 Jan 2000 18:35:18 -0500, Rush Wickes <ru...@south-side.org>
wrote:
>On 18 Jan 2000 10:31:40 -0800, Ron Newman <rne...@thecia.net> wrote:
>
>>This brings a question to my mind:
>>
>>Do any toll bridges in North America charge a toll for pedestrians?
>>How about for bicycles?
>
>The George Washington Bridge across the Hudson River used to be tolled
>when it first opened. The tolls for pedestrian and bicycle traffic
>have long since been abandoned. However when it first opened, it was
>cheaper to ride a bus (5 cent fare) across the bridge than use the
>sidewalk (10 cent toll).
>
>I believe there is still a bridge up in Vermont somewhere that
>collects a 1 1/2 cent or other quirky toll for pedestrians. Next
>time I'm on Deja.com, I will take a look for the post.
Last time I checked, the Longport Bridge in Ocean City, New Jersey charged
a toll for bicycles.
- brian
--
Brian A Doreste school email: bdoreste 'at' copland.udel.edu
74 E Cleveland Ave Apt 2 work email: bdoreste 'at' mail.dot.state.de.us
Newark, DE 19711-2247 USA Univ of Delaware Civil Engineering Undergraduate
Usual disclaimers apply Delaware Dept of Transportation|Traffic Ops/Mgmt
Steve Anderson
>
> In article <8634tc$mfr$3...@campus3.mtu.edu>, Brandon M. Gorte
> <bmg...@mtu.edu> wrote:
>
> > : How about for bicycles?
> >
> > If I recall, the Blue Water Bridge, the Ambassador Bridge, and the
> > International Bridge all have pedestrian and bicycle tolls.
>
>
> Does anyone know what the tolls are
> for peds and bicycles on any of these bridges?
>
the Five Towns area of Nassau County and Atlantic Beach charged 25 cents
for cars, 5 cents for cyclists and pedestrians. From Ralph Herman (on my
Atlantic Beach Bridge bridge at
http://www.nycroads.com/crossings/atlantic-beach):
"When I was a kid, the Atlantic Beach Bridge on Long Island had a
five-cent toll for bicycles and pedestrians, cars at that time were
charged 25 cents. It had a turnstile, but you could remove a metal chain
so your bicycle could pass through as you paid your five cents in the
turnstile. I used it daily to ride my bike to my summer job at a beach
club. The pedestrian and bicycle tolls were removed when the vehicular
toll was raised, after the original bonds were retired."
-- Steve Anderson
http://www.nycroads.com
Michael G. Koerner
>
> In article <8634tc$mfr$3...@campus3.mtu.edu>, Brandon M. Gorte
> <bmg...@mtu.edu> wrote:
>
> > : Do any toll bridges in North America charge a toll for pedestrians?
> > : How about for bicycles?
> >
> > If I recall, the Blue Water Bridge, the Ambassador Bridge, and the
> > International Bridge all have pedestrian and bicycle tolls.
>
> Where are the "Blue Water Bridge" and "International Bridge"?
'Blue Water Bridge'
North end of I-69/east end of I-94/west end of ON 402 at Port Huron,
MI/Sarnia, ON.
'International Bridge'
North end of I-75 at Sault Sainte Marie, MI/ON.
> Does anyone know what the tolls are
> for peds and bicycles on any of these bridges?
1998 MDOT map says
'International Bridge'
Bicycles $0.75
(nothing about pedestrians, but I assume that there is a bus service)
'Blue Water Bridge'
Bicycle (Must be walked) 'NC'
NOTE: SIDEWALK CURRENTLY CLOSED
(It may have since reopened)
--
____________________________________________________________________________
Regards,
Michael G. Koerner
Appleton, WI
***NOTICE*** SPAMfilter in use, please remove ALL 'i's from the return
address to reply. ***NOTICE***
____________________________________________________________________________
Larry Stone
falls charges a pedestrian toll. The toll is on the Canadian side. IIRC,
you pay first, then go through Canadian Customs and Immigration. Also
IIRC, the toll is the same amount in either Canadian or US money so pay in
Canadian money to save a little bit.
--
-- Larry Stone --- la...@stonejongleux.com
http://www.stonejongleux.com/~lstone/
Roselle, IL, USA
NWPerry
<larry-19010...@dsl-216-227-23-33.chi.interchangedsl.com>,
la...@stonejongleux.com (Larry Stone) wrote:
> I forget the name but the bridge at Niagara Falls just downstream
> of the
> falls charges a pedestrian toll. The toll is on the Canadian side.
> IIRC,
> you pay first, then go through Canadian Customs and Immigration.
> Also
> IIRC, the toll is the same amount in either Canadian or US money
> so pay in
> Canadian money to save a little bit.
That's the Rainbow Bridge. The toll is a quarter. You put it in a slot
in a turnstile on the Canadaian side. It takes all seven or eight known
American quarters as well as Canadian ones.
* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!
Marc Fannin
> Ron Newman wrote:
> >
> > Brandon M. Gorte <bmg...@mtu.edu> wrote:
> >
> > > [Ron Newman wrote:]
> > >
> > > : Do any toll bridges in North America charge a toll for
> > > : pedestrians? How about for bicycles?
> > >
> > > If I recall, the Blue Water Bridge, the Ambassador Bridge, and the
> > > International Bridge all have pedestrian and bicycle tolls.
> >
> > Where are the "Blue Water Bridge" and "International Bridge"?
>
> 'Blue Water Bridge'
>
> North end of I-69/east end of I-94/west end of ON 402 at Port Huron,
> MI/Sarnia, ON.
EAST end of I-69. :) (For those who don't know, I-69 changes cardinal
directions near Lansing.)
--
Marc Fannin musx...@kent.edu
http://www.personal.kent.edu/~musxf579/home.html
"If '[Weird] Al' didn't exist, we'd have to invent him."
-- Doug Fieger of the Knack
Rich Dean
>
> Last time I checked, the Longport Bridge in Ocean City, New Jersey
charged
> a toll for bicycles.
>
> - brian
>
> --
> Brian A Doreste school email: bdoreste 'at' copland.udel.edu
>
That must be one of those Cape May County toll bridges.
--
Rich Dean, Butler NJ http://members.aol.com/rldean
Telecommunicator -- Borough of Butler since 1975
Member -- Kinney Hose Co. 1, Butler Fire Dept since 1973
Railfan -- Primarily New York, Susquehanna & Western Railway
Dyche Anderson
a toll for pedestrians. It's been almost 20 years since I've been
on those bridges, but the toll used to be just a few cents.
Dyche Anderson
MaryKDan
<dy...@mediaone.net> writes:
In 1988, the pedestrian toll was 10 cents to go southbound on the one-way
bridge operated by the city of El Paso, and 20 cents to return northbound on
the bridge owned by Chihuahua State. Interestingly, in Mexican Pesos, the toll
was the same on both bridges, but the two authorities used different exhange
rates.
_____ Dan Stober
| |West Jordan/. /
| * |___ Utah /. /
| | /. /
| | /. /
| http://members.aol.com/utahhwys/
|________| /. /
Dave 2
>
> In article <38867C41...@mediaone.net>, Dyche Anderson
> <dy...@mediaone.net> writes:
>
> >
> >The bridges between El Paso, Texas and Cd. Juarez, Chihuahua charge
> >a toll for pedestrians. It's been almost 20 years since I've been
> >on those bridges, but the toll used to be just a few cents.
> >
> >
>
> In 1988, the pedestrian toll was 10 cents to go southbound on the one-way
> bridge operated by the city of El Paso, and 20 cents to return northbound on
> the bridge owned by Chihuahua State.
In 1997 it was 25 cents to go into Mexico, and 35 cents to come back.
BTW, this was the same bridge for both pedestrian journeys (the one that
carried auto traffic northbound)
> Interestingly, in Mexican Pesos, the toll
> was the same on both bridges, but the two authorities used different exhange
> rates.
>
--
There's something exciting about a road, about a highway. It's an
adventure. There's a rush of associations and movements. You never know
where it's going to take you or what's around the bend or what's going
to cross the path especially on a long stretch of highway. - Michele Grijalva
MaryKDan
> In 1988, the pedestrian toll was 10 cents to go southbound on the one-way
> bridge operated by the city of El Paso, and 20 cents to return northbound
>on the bridge owned by Chihuahua State.
Dave 2 writes:
>In 1997 it was 25 cents to go into Mexico, and 35 cents to come back.
>BTW, this was the same bridge for both pedestrian journeys (the one that
>carried auto traffic northbound)
So what happened to the sidewalks on the southbound bridge? Did they move the
Mexican customs station to the other bridge?
And now with people walking both ways on the same bridge, what if I just walk
to the middle of the bridge, not actually leaving US territory? It sounds like
the bridge itself is a no man's land -- no matter which way you go, you'll have
to go through customs, since there are customs officials at both ends now.
One more thing I forgot to note earlier: those two bridges are backwards, the
southbound bridge is *east* of the northbound bridge.
Dave 2
>
> I wrote (regarding the crossings between downtown El Paso and Juárez):
> > In 1988, the pedestrian toll was 10 cents to go southbound on the one-way
> > bridge operated by the city of El Paso, and 20 cents to return northbound
> >on the bridge owned by Chihuahua State.
>
> Dave 2 writes:
> >In 1997 it was 25 cents to go into Mexico, and 35 cents to come back.
> >BTW, this was the same bridge for both pedestrian journeys (the one that
> >carried auto traffic northbound)
First off, I have to jot down a small map to orient myself...
> So what happened to the sidewalks on the southbound bridge?
I'm not sure about the facilities on the eastern, southbound bridge.
> Did they move the
> Mexican customs station to the other bridge?
Ermm.. which one is the "other" bridge?
>
> And now with people walking both ways on the same bridge, what if I just walk
> to the middle of the bridge, not actually leaving US territory? It sounds like
> the bridge itself is a no man's land -- no matter which way you go, you'll have
> to go through customs, since there are customs officials at both ends now.
OK, I parked my car, and proceeded to the bridge nearest the US customs
station. This is the bridge that is one way (for vehicle traffic)
*into* the US.
I paid my 25 cent toll at the northern (US) end of the bridge, and
walked into Mexico on the western sidewalk of this bridge. There was
nobody checking people at the southern end (well, maybe somebody was
watching, but basically people just sauntered in, there was no questions
asked by any official).
Later, I returned to the same bridge, paid my 35 cent toll at the
southern (Mexican) end, and walked back into the US on the eastern
sidewalk of the bridge. I waved my BC birth certificate at the border
guard, and exited the building into the main street of El Paso.
Well, that's the way things operated in June of 1997.
> One more thing I forgot to note earlier: those two bridges are backwards, the
> southbound bridge is *east* of the northbound bridge.
Yep.
Michael Tantillo
MaryKDan <mary...@aol.comhormel> wrote in message
news:20000204033133...@nso-cm.aol.com...
> I wrote (regarding the crossings between downtown El Paso and Juárez):
> > In 1988, the pedestrian toll was 10 cents to go southbound on the
one-way
> > bridge operated by the city of El Paso, and 20 cents to return
northbound
> >on the bridge owned by Chihuahua State.
>
>
> Dave 2 writes:
> >In 1997 it was 25 cents to go into Mexico, and 35 cents to come back.
> >BTW, this was the same bridge for both pedestrian journeys (the one that
> >carried auto traffic northbound)
>
>
the
> Mexican customs station to the other bridge?
>
walk
> to the middle of the bridge, not actually leaving US territory? It sounds
like
> the bridge itself is a no man's land -- no matter which way you go, you'll
have
> to go through customs, since there are customs officials at both ends now.
Yeah, the bridge would be a "no mans land". The same thing exists on the
ferry that goes from Bar Harbour, ME to Yarmouth, NS. you buy your ticket,
get on the boat, get off, and go through customs into whatever country you
are entering. I did this in 1997. The next year, they replaced the
"Bluenose" with the much faster "Cat" which cut travel time in half. Since
they offered day cruises, we went on one when we were in Bar Harbour in
1999. We bought round trip "cruise" tickets, got on the boat, sailed to
Canada (never left the boat), and then back to the US. We had to go through
Customs even though we never left were in Canada. We just showed the
Customs agent our cruise ticket stubs, so we got a much quicker questioning
than most people. He still asked us if we had anything to declare...as we
could have theoretically been given something from someone who got on the
boat in Canada. We said no, and that was all, we were questioned for no
more than 20 seconds.
>
> One more thing I forgot to note earlier: those two bridges are backwards,
the
> southbound bridge is *east* of the northbound bridge.
>
>
S.J.Carras
>From: rne...@thecia.net (Ron Newman)
>Date: 1/17/00 4:00 AM Pacific Standard Time
>Message-id: <rnewman-1701...@ppp39-100.thecia.net>
>
>In article <20000117000631...@ng-cq1.aol.com>,
>gca...@aol.combination (S.J.Carras) wrote:
>
>> Too many to mention here but the Dumbarton bridge, and previous one,
>> respectively, are and were candidates.
>
>I really doubt the Dumbarton even comes close. It feels like a
>large structure when I drive over it.
>
I meant the demolished one, built in 1927 and closed to traffic in 1982
(demolished in 1984).
poporc...@onelist.com
20s-to-50...@onelist.com/
buffy...@eskimo.com
For more visit www.onelist.com
[Hyperlink eliminated for the hyperlink-wise challenged.
Anyone using my name on an e-mailing list will be reported.
Daniel Salomon
: I waved my BC birth certificate at the border
: guard, and exited the building into the main street of El Paso.
British Columbia, or Baja California? :)
When I walked across the border from Tijuana, BC to San Ysidro,
California, the only question they asked was your country of citizenship.
If you looked and sounded American, you were waived right through.
What documentation do you need to return to the U.S. from Canada? Driving
across, I just showed my drivers license, but I've heard that for people
travelling by plane that isn't good enough, and you need a birth
certificate or voter registration card (which I'd never heard of.)
-Dan
Dave 2
>
> Dave 2 <da...@infowave.cutoffs.net> wrote:
> : I waved my BC birth certificate at the border
> : guard, and exited the building into the main street of El Paso.
>
> British Columbia, or Baja California? :)
D'oh. That would be "British Columbia"... though I'm sure there are
Americans far away from the 49th parallel [1] who think that is a colony
in South America.
> When I walked across the border from Tijuana, BC to San Ysidro,
> California, the only question they asked was your country of citizenship.
> If you looked and sounded American, you were waived right through.
>
> What documentation do you need to return to the U.S. from Canada? Driving
> across, I just showed my drivers license, but I've heard that for people
> travelling by plane that isn't good enough, and you need a birth
> certificate or voter registration card (which I'd never heard of.)
Well, I'm a Canadian, so I don't _return_ to the US from Canada... but
if they want to get picky, a driver's license does not cut it. It is
not proof of citizenship. You only need to be a *resident*, not a
citizen, to obtain one. I carry both a birth certificate and a voter
registration card (never shown the latter), neither of which has a
photo. I now have a passport due to taking a trip to the eclipse last
year, but have yet to use it to cross to the US.
Dave in Vancouver
> -Dan
[1] Yes I know, don't bother
James Lin
news:20000209022704...@ng-cq1.aol.com...
> >
> >In article <20000117000631...@ng-cq1.aol.com>,
> >gca...@aol.combination (S.J.Carras) wrote:
> >
> >> Too many to mention here but the Dumbarton bridge, and previous one,
> >> respectively, are and were candidates.
> >
> >I really doubt the Dumbarton even comes close. It feels like a
> >large structure when I drive over it.
>
> I meant the demolished one, built in 1927 and closed to traffic in 1982
> (demolished in 1984).
The old Dumbarton Bridge was only a little shorter (in length) than the
present one, so I don't think it's a candidate.
BTW, the old one is only partially gone. Caltrans removed the drawbridge
section, but the rest of the bridge remains as fishing piers.
You can see a photo of the old Dumbarton at
http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/Exhibits/Bridge/dmb001.html and the new one next
to the old one at http://www.dot.ca.gov/dist4/images/dumbarto.jpg
- Jim
--
James Lin
jl...@ugcs.caltech.edu
http://www.ugcs.caltech.edu/~jlin/