How do they count the miles for the mile markers?
Kenny McCormack
to the more "senior" of the highways. I.e., if a US and an Interstate
are multiplexed, the mile marker numbering is done for the Interstate.
But what if they are of equal status, such as two US routes?
How do they break the tie?
Steve Riner
wrote:
Many places use the lower numbered route. Examples - New Mexico does
not have concurrent state routes, but where there are concurrent U.S.
routes, the lower numbered route is "dominant" and the other route(s)
"subordinate." (Sounds kinda kinky, now that I mention it). Colorado
also uses the lower-numbered route of equal rank for continuity. A
significant exception I can think of is Minnesota, where in the
I-94/694 concurrent segment, the exit numbers and mileposts are based
on I-694/494, i.e. the Twin Cities beltway. That is probably an
exception because the concurrent segment is part of the beltway. I
believe in Minnesota that there are other concurrencies where the
obvious continuous route determines the mileposts, even though the
concurrent route is lower numbered (i.e., MN-65/27).
Steve Riner
Pueblo West CO
Explore New Mexico and Minnesota highways: http://www.steve-riner.com
Larry Sheldon
On very limited recal, I'd say they go with the lower numbered one (e.
g. I29 numbers on I29-I80, I35 numbers on I35-I80.
Or maybe they just don't like I80.
I know West Virginia has some that confuse me badly. (That may be the
toll-road influence, which is another problem.
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Free Lunch
<highplain...@msn.com> wrote in misc.transport.road:
That is generally the case in Wisconsin, though they didn't bother to
renumber exits on I-39/90 or I-39/90/94 when I-39 was added. Even though
I-94 is the most significant interstate in Wisconsin, I-90 exit
numbering prevails.
It seems to me that Indiana uses I-70 exit numbers in Indianapolis where
the road is I-65/70.
Free Lunch
wrote in misc.transport.road:
>Kenny McCormack wrote:
>> ... when highways are multiplexed? I know that if possible, they defer
>> to the more "senior" of the highways. I.e., if a US and an Interstate
>> are multiplexed, the mile marker numbering is done for the Interstate.
>>
>> But what if they are of equal status, such as two US routes?
>> How do they break the tie?
>
>On very limited recal, I'd say they go with the lower numbered one (e.
>g. I29 numbers on I29-I80, I35 numbers on I35-I80.
>
>Or maybe they just don't like I80.
>
>I know West Virginia has some that confuse me badly. (That may be the
>toll-road influence, which is another problem.
Illinois's toll roads are a bit confusing, too. The Jane Addams, nee
Northwest Tollway, aka I-90, runs their mile counters backward from the
way I-90 runs it.
If I recall correctly, the Kennedy from the Junction to the Circle uses
I-94 numbers.
richard
I've seen it go different ways in different states.
But usually the one route that has the "priority" for that direction
of travel takes the numbering of mile markers.
For instance, US 400 and US 54 may combine for a few miles. As 400 is
the predominent route for the direction, then they use that.
In cases where two routes going basically the same direction cross
paths, they try to use the one that is the most directionally correct.
And in some cases, I think they just flip a coin.
In Iowa I've seen them put markers on US 30 and use that as the base
even when another US route joins it. Regqrdless of what the other
number was.
necromancer - ECHM
wrote:
Also of note, on the IH81/IH77 multiplex (e.g. the wrong way
concurrency), the exit numbers are continuous for IH81 with IH77's
exit numbers going from exit 32 (where IH77N joins IH81S) and resuming
at exit 40 after IH77N leaves IH81S.
--
necromancer - ECHM
Gary V
markers prevail. That may be because I-96 was there first.
Cameron Kaiser
California doesn't have this situation much anymore, but the highway on that
alignment is written in law. For example, CA 78/79 west of Julian is
defined legislatively as CA 78; CA 20/49 in Grass Valley is defined as CA 20.
There is a legislative break in the "dependent" highway which you can see on
the Bridge Log. I think the lower numbered highway is always the legislative
route, I couldn't find an exception off the top of my head.
Most of the other situations are clearly defined hierarchies such as
US 395 and CA 168 or CA 299 (itself a former US highway, but not any longer,
and the co-signed portion was not part of US 299), or I-280 and CA 1 or CA 35,
or I-215 and CA 60. Exit numbers also follow the senior route.
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Craig Zeni
I-85/I-40 in North Carolina uses the I-85 mileage...
richard
I-40 was realigned with I-85 and the original I-40 turned into a
business route. So I-85 technically rules the numbering on that
section.
UAZip
uses I-70 mileage though, which bolsters the lower number argument.
Of course, I-65-70 runs north/south and I-70/71 east-west, so it could
be argued that the numbering reflects direction too. I-76/77 in Akron
also has the lower number win, but also the direction of the
concurrency matches that of the lower number. I-271/480 near
Cleveland uses 271's numbering, which unfortunately by coincidence
involves exit numbers that are close for both routes; the exit numbers
on I-480 EB go 20, 21, 22, 23 (entrance only), 24, 25ABC, 26, (26),
23, [21], 36. The (26) is I-271's exit number for I-480 the other
way, and [21] is I-271 south's exit number for I-480 east. So, the
second 26, 23, and 21 are I-271 exit numbers on the multiplex, but
they are only a couple miles from same-numbered exits on 480. I bet
it's caused some misadventures.
As far as "circular" beltways, the beltway mileage/numbering often
seems to win. I-695/83 uses I-695's exit numbers, albeit for a short
distance. I-465/74 in Indianapolis uses I-465's exit numbers and
mileage for a considerable distance. Notably, though, near Cincinnati
I-74/275 keeps I-74's numbering, although it could be argued that 275
enters and leaves 74 more than the other way around.
MLOM
Kansas City sort of fires darts blindfolded. On the duplex of I-35
and I-70, the mile markers are those of I-70, but the exits in the
alphabet soup fit the I-35 mileage despite 2A being from I-70. On the
I-29/I-35 duplex, the mile markers are for I-35. The mile markers for
I-29 do not start until it leaves I-35 about 5 miles north of I-70.
I-29/435 carries I-29's markers due to I-435 being opened much later.
Mileage trivia time: the KC downtown loop has one exit that is not
part of the Exit 2 alphabet soup. Yep...the exit from SB I-35 to EB
I-70 is exit 3.
Can't recall off the bat about the split of I-55/64/70 WB/SB coming
off the Poplar Street Bridge: think the exit might have been based on
I-70 but now is for I-64 (no mileage markers were on that stretch of
the triplex the last time I crossed). Rich?
richardisafuckingidiot
>
> And in some cases, I think they just flip a coin.
>
you fucking idiot
sure they flip a coin
absolutely they do, you fucking idiot
I mean everyone is a fucking stooopid as you are
engineers don't know anything
you fucking idiot
could not possibly be based on traffic, now could it???
but what would engineers know
any fucking idiot truck driver knows more then a professional engineer
you are nothing but a fucking useless piece of shit
just go away
richardisafuckingidiot
again you are a fucking idiot, as well as a useless piece of shit
I-40 was routed over I-85 long before there was an I-40 business loop
thru Greensboro.
I-40 was routed over existing I-85 when I-40 was extended to Raleigh
and Wilmington, iirc in the late 1970's
Previously you fucking idiot, I-40 ended at the jct of I-85
just go away you fucking idiot
Larry Harvilla
Nobody has yet mentioned the approach I'm about to bring up, so here goes.
In some cases, I think the selection of which highway keeps its
numbering might have to do with avoiding the duplication in that state
of certain mileposts and exit numbers on one of the highways involved. A
perfect case in point is the I-20/I-59 multiplex in east-central
Mississippi, in which I-59's numbering is maintained.
If I-20's (lower) numbering were maintained here, I-59 would have two
sets of mileposts and exits 130 to 150-ish in Mississippi: one from just
north of Pachuta to the west end of Meridian, and another from the west
end of Meridian to just west of the Alabama line. Using I-59's numbering
ensures that there will be no duplication of mileposts and exit numbers
on I-20 in the Magnolia State.
Though other rationales (e.g., I-81 being the "straight through" route)
are just as valid for the I-77/I-81 concurrency in southwestern
Virginia, one could put forth my argument in that case as well: using
I-81's numbering ensures that I-77 will have no duplication of numbers
in Virginia. The I-81 mile/exit numbering for that stretch runs from 72
to 81, and I-77 is only 67 miles long in Virginia, hence no duplication.
--
Larry Harvilla
e-mail: larry AT phatpage DOT org
http://www.phatpage.org/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/larrysphatpage
The Chief Instigator
On the I-29/80 duplex through Council Bluffs, I-80's mileposts (from 1 at
the west end to 4 at the east) take precedence over I-29's (which are in the
high 40s/low 50s), as we passed through there twice last month.
--
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LAST GAME: Manitoba 3, Houston 1 (May 25: Moose advance, 4-2)
NEXT GAME: The 2009-10 opener in October, TBA
The Chief Instigator
Add to the collection: the I-10/I-35 short duplex in San Antonio uses
I-35's numbers (153 to 156, northbound; I-10's would be 569 to 572).
michael e dziatkowicz
I-77/I-64 in west virginia use i-77 since i-64 joins it at
charleston/beckley, i-77/81 since i-77 joins 81 at wytheville they use i-81
numbers, i-70/79 since i-79 joins i-70 they use i-70 numbers. If they
numbered state routes they would use sr7 numbers in ohio since us22 joins
it, they would us 22 numbers in pa since us30 joins it.
"Free Lunch" <lu...@nofreelunch.us> wrote in message
news:ats47592o6tlcjffc...@4ax.com...
michael e dziatkowicz
77 joins 81 thus they use 81s numbers, 64 joins 77 thus they use 77s
numbers, 79 joins 70 thus they use 70s numbers, 71 joins 70 thus they use
70s numbers, so on and so forth.
"Larry Harvilla" <la...@phatpage.org> wrote in message
news:uMadne4HBfLZv-nX...@giganews.com...
michael e dziatkowicz
before the interstate system. the tri-state is number south(394) to north
(wisconsin).the reagan is numbered from west(iowa) to east(tri state/290),
dunno what happened with the jane addams (maybe the person was drunk when
they numbered it or dislexic), the memorial tollway is also numbered the
right way from south (i-80) to north (i-88/294/290).news:r4t475h8lft05mb0i...@4ax.com...
Jeff Morrison
>
> On very limited recal, I'd say they go with the lower numbered one (e.
> g. I29 numbers on I29-I80, I35 numbers on I35-I80.
Unfortunately, you picked precisely the wrong examples. I-80's mileage
prevails on both of those, for reasons I do not know. Everywhere else
in Iowa, the lower number prevails, even if it means the road is
exiting from itself, e.g. the US 30/61 exit-to-exit duplex.
Larry Sheldon
> On Jul 30, 10:15 pm, Larry Sheldon <lfshel...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On very limited recal, I'd say they go with the lower numbered one (e.
>> g. I29 numbers on I29-I80, I35 numbers on I35-I80.
>
> Unfortunately, you picked precisely the wrong examples. I-80's mileage
> prevails on both of those, for reasons I do not know.
Really? How embarrassing.
Marc Fannin
> I-76/77 in Akron
> also has the lower number win, but also the direction of the
> concurrency matches that of the lower number.
This is an ambiguous example, though, since I-80N became I-76 about
the same time that Ohio switched from consecutively-numbered exits to
mileage-based ones, so it may or may not be intentional.
> I-271/480 near
> Cleveland uses 271's numbering, which unfortunately by coincidence
> involves exit numbers that are close for both routes; the exit numbers
> on I-480 EB go 20, 21, 22, 23 (entrance only), 24, 25ABC, 26, (26),
> 23, [21], 36. The (26) is I-271's exit number for I-480 the other
> way, and [21] is I-271 south's exit number for I-480 east. So, the
> second 26, 23, and 21 are I-271 exit numbers on the multiplex, but
> they are only a couple miles from same-numbered exits on 480.
Just to clarify, the exit schemes on the two highways are going in
opposite directions, since the numbering is standard (I-480's "0" is
on the west, I-271's on the south, and I-480 WB runs with I-271 NB and
vice versa.)
> I bet it's caused some misadventures.
You bet correctly. From _The Plain Dealer_, former road column "The
Compass", 3/24/08 (available at
http://infoweb.newsbank.com/ ):
"Q: Did you know that there are two Exit No. 23s on Interstate 480
eastbound? The first one is at Broadway Avenue near the Garfield
Heights-Maple Heights border. The second is at Forbes Road- Broadway
in Oakwood where Interstates 480 and 271 overlap. One of these exits
should be renumbered to eliminate confusion. An out-of-town visitor I
know got lost because of this blunder by ODOT. - Alex Hohenstein,
Macedonia" [Answer resembles your explanation above]
_________________________________________________________________________
Marc Fannin|musxf579 @hotmail.com|http://roadfan.com/ (m.t.r FAQ, etc.)
rsh...@gmail.com
wrote:
> the tollway numbers the tollways they way it has since they were built
nope they changed the Reagan
the mile markers conform to IDOT's section of I-88
It used to be mile marked outbound from Chicago
http://www.illinoistollway.com/portal/page?_dad=portal&_schema=PORTAL&_pageid=133,1495438
> before the interstate system. the tri-state is number south(394) to north
> (wisconsin).the reagan is numbered from west(iowa) to east(tri state/290),
> dunno what happened with the jane addams (maybe the person was drunk when
> they numbered it or dislexic), the memorial tollway is also numbered the
> right way from south (i-80) to north (i-88/294/290)."Free Lunch" <lu...@nofreelunch.us> wrote in message
>
the tollways mile marker policy predating the interstates was
tri-state south to north
the others outbound from Chicago
http://www.illinoistollway.com/portal/page?_dad=portal&_schema=PORTAL&_pageid=133,1495438
rsh...@gmail.com
> On Jul 31, 9:22 pm, UAZip...wrote:
>
> > I-76/77 in Akron
> > also has the lower number win, but also the direction of the
> > concurrency matches that of the lower number.
>
> This is an ambiguous example, though, since I-80N became I-76 about
> the same time that Ohio switched from consecutively-numbered exits to
> mileage-based ones, so it may or may not be intentional.
>
I think you may have mis-spoke
you mean I-80S, don't you
I-80N was killed off long, long before that
I never saw an I-80N sign anywhere in OH
when I was a kid, I distinctly remember I-80S sigange
also what is now I-480 was originally I-80
I-80 was put on the Ohio Tpk in the 1968 fed hwy law which expanded
the interstate system
Marc Fannin
> On Aug 1, 4:05 pm, Marc Fannin...wrote:
>
> > On Jul 31, 9:22 pm, UAZip...wrote:
> >
> > > I-76/77 in Akron
> > > also has the lower number win, but also the direction of the
> > > concurrency matches that of the lower number.
> >
> > This is an ambiguous example, though, since I-80N became I-76 about
> > the same time that Ohio switched from consecutively-numbered exits to
> > mileage-based ones, so it may or may not be intentional.
>
> I think you may have mis-spoke
>
> you mean I-80S, don't you
Yes.
For the record, from my sources:
- I-80S (yes, "S") west of today's I-376 became I-76 on January 11,
1972, and signs in Ohio were changed on September 1, 1972.
(See "Bonus" near the bottom of http://www.roadfan.com/ohiomaps.html ,
scan of an ODOT newsletter photo/caption, plus the extensive last
section of http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/infrastructure/i76.cfm )
- The consecutive-to-mileage happened in September, 1974 according to
the legend on the ODOT 1974 official (available at
http://www.dot.state.oh.us/Divisions/TransSysDev/Innovation/Prod_Services/TransMap/Pages/default.aspx
), so I'm sure that it was being planned around the time of the I-80S
elimination.
Ohio's I-80N didn't last very long at all (FWIW the only official that
shows it, unless it's on insets on backs of maps, not available at the
ODOT online archive, is the 1963 official), though it's in a few other
planning maps that I've seen, like one at the Roadfan.com page above
as well as some that I saw on Stephen Summers' dead site (the Ohio
page is not available at Archive.org either).
John David Galt
> California doesn't have this situation much anymore, but the highway on that
> alignment is written in law. For example, CA 78/79 west of Julian is
> defined legislatively as CA 78; CA 20/49 in Grass Valley is defined as CA 20.
> There is a legislative break in the "dependent" highway which you can see on
> the Bridge Log. I think the lower numbered highway is always the legislative
> route, I couldn't find an exception off the top of my head.
I can: CA 12/121 near Napa uses CA 121 "postmiles".
UAZip
wrote:
> please read my reply above about states using which highway joins which. IE
> 77 joins 81 thus they use 81s numbers, 64 joins 77 thus they use 77s
> numbers, 79 joins 70 thus they use 70s numbers, 71 joins 70 thus they use
> 70s numbers, so on and so forth."Larry Harvilla" <la...@phatpage.org> wrote in message
>
64 joining 77 thus they use 77's numbers isn't so much because of 64
coming and going from 77 as it is because of 77 being the Turnpike.
In all of the cases there, it seems like the route whose numbers were
used is the one whose direction physically dominates (I-64/77 runs N-
S; I-77/81 is wrong-way but 77 NB drifts southward somewhat with 81 so
it makes sense to use 81's numbers, and so on).
The interesting ones are the ones where one route joins and the other
one leaves, like I-76/77 in Akron. 77 NB has to exit itself to join
I-76, but then 76 exits the duplex and 77 is thru.
michael e dziatkowicz
the turnpike you idiot. Are you sure you're not related to retarded richard?
"UAZip" <wdon...@uakron.edu> wrote in message
news:6e37960d-834a-4cb7...@e4g2000vbe.googlegroups.com...
The Chief Instigator
Not quite...in the I-10/I-35 duplex on the west side of downtown San
Antonio, I-35's mileposts are used (and I-10's final milepost in Texas is
880, not to mention it goes from the Pacific Ocean to I-95 in downtown
Jacksonville).
MLOM
wrote:
An interesting one: the bypass of Knoxville, IA. The mainline is IA
92, but exit 60 for IA 5 south is the mileage for IA 5 from the MO
line.
John David Galt
If you want that sort of oddball case, how about the eastern end of
I-76 in WY? The exits from I-80 to 76 in both directions are normal,
but the ramp from I-76 to westbound 80 is numbered using I-80's mile
number (instead of exit 2 or 3, as it ought to be). To make things
more confusing, the interchange is a "trumpet" but is built as though
I-76 through to I-80 east were the mainline and I-80 west were an exit.
So if you're not familiar with it, it's easy to get fooled into
thinking you're on the wrong road and turning back.
MLOM
Actually, that particular exit is in Nebraska (102 miles east of the
WY line). Still, it is an oddity, likely as carry-over from when I-76
was I-80S. It seems as if the designers intended for traffic going
west through Nebraska to head for Denver rather than Salt Lake City.
Also weird (and likely discussed earlier in the ng) is that the
portion of I-76 in Nebraska is posted as a north-south route and in
Colorado as east-west. Evidence is on this page.
http://www.mylandofmisery.com/roadtrips/2006%20vacation/NE.htm
It is the only I-76 exit in Nebraska.
Larry Sheldon
Easy t be fooled if you think you are in Wyoming.
That goofy interchange is a hyndred miles from the Wyoming border,
across the Nebraska Panhandle, a 1/4 of the distance across the whole state.
The short summary is it is built as if I 80 goes to Denver.
I'm surprised thay haven't rebuilt it like they did I480 to make I76 the
right exit and I80 the "straight through".
Larry Sheldon
> John David Galt wrote:
To make things
>> more confusing, the interchange is a "trumpet" but is built as though
>> I-76 through to I-80 east were the mainline and I-80 west were an exit.
>> So if you're not familiar with it, it's easy to get fooled into
>> thinking you're on the wrong road and turning back.
> I'm surprised thay haven't rebuilt it like they did I480 to make I76 the
> right exit and I80 the "straight through".
Oops. John David already said that.
Sorry.
Cameron Kaiser
Which district is that? I'll dig out my Bridge Logs.
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personal page: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/
** Computer Workshops: games, productivity software and more for C64/128! **
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figrin d'an
>
>when I was a kid, I distinctly remember I-80S sigange
I remember that, too. I also remember those "76 Replaces 80S" signs
they had up for awhile after the number change.
Jon Enslin
> On Thu, 30 Jul 2009 20:13:10 -0700 (PDT), Steve Riner
Actually, I-39 doesn't use it's own exit numbers throughout
Wisconsin. The stretch from Portage to Wausau uses the old US-51
numbers and between Beloit and Portage, US-51 takes a route that is 5
miles longer than I-39. (This is simple to figure out...since I-90 is
187 miles long in Wisconsin, and since the Cascade exit is I-90 exit
108, that means that I-39/90 extends 79 miles to the IL border. The
Cascade exit is I-39's exit 84. That five mile difference is the
difference between US-51 and I-39.)
Jon