Airbnb rental income taxation

[xy...@hotmail.com]

Back in the pre Airbnb era around 10 years ago, I moved in with a roommate who had already secured a lease with the property owner and was already living there. we split the rent of $600 but I never signed a lease. So the way the irs views this situation I think is as a sharing of expenses which means the irs didn't view my $300/month to her as taxable income.

My question is why is Airbnb different? If today she were to do the same thing through Airbnb with the only difference being multiple short term rentals instead of a longer term one like me why is this different? Why does having multiple people make this not a cost sharing arrangement?

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[ira smilovitz]

On Saturday, June 11, 2016 at 12:53:15 PM UTC-4, xy...@hotmail.com wrote:
> Back in the pre Airbnb era around 10 years ago, I moved in with a roommate who had already secured a lease with the property owner and was already living there. we split the rent of $600 but I never signed a lease. So the way the irs views this situation I think is as a sharing of expenses which means the irs didn't view my $300/month to her as taxable income.
>
> My question is why is Airbnb different? If today she were to do the same thing through Airbnb with the only difference being multiple short term rentals instead of a longer term one like me why is this different? Why does having multiple people make this not a cost sharing arrangement?
>
> --

Airbnb is not a cost sharing arrangement. The short term rental fee is unrelated to splitting costs (that is, the daily rental rate isn't 1/30 of the monthly cost of the space occupied). Airbnb is getting a fee for its services. Simply put, it's a business activity.

Additionally, the tax treatment of short-term rentals and long-term rentals is different. Short-term rentals are Schedule C income and potentially subject to SE tax, not Schedule E income.

Ira Smilovitz

[Alan]

On 6/11/16 1:45 PM, ira smilovitz wrote:
> On Saturday, June 11, 2016 at 12:53:15 PM UTC-4, xy...@hotmail.com wrote:
>> Back in the pre Airbnb era around 10 years ago, I moved in with a roommate who had already secured a lease with the property owner and was already living there. we split the rent of $600 but I never signed a lease. So the way the irs views this situation I think is as a sharing of expenses which means the irs didn't view my $300/month to her as taxable income.
>>
>> My question is why is Airbnb different? If today she were to do the same thing through Airbnb with the only difference being multiple short term rentals instead of a longer term one like me why is this different? Why does having multiple people make this not a cost sharing arrangement?
>>
>> --
>
> Airbnb is not a cost sharing arrangement. The short term rental fee is unrelated to splitting costs (that is, the daily rental rate isn't 1/30 of the monthly cost of the space occupied). Airbnb is getting a fee for its services. Simply put, it's a business activity.
>
> Additionally, the tax treatment of short-term rentals and long-term rentals is different. Short-term rentals are Schedule C income and potentially subject to SE tax, not Schedule E income.
>
> Ira Smilovitz
>

Ira is referencing the 7 day or less rule. If the average rental period
during the tax year is 7 days or less, you do not have a rental
activity. The activity gets reported on Schedule C.

[Stuart Bronstein]

Alan <temp...@vacationmail.com> wrote:

> Ira is referencing the 7 day or less rule. If the average rental
> period during the tax year is 7 days or less, you do not have a
> rental activity. The activity gets reported on Schedule C.

I thought if the rental activity was 14 days or less in a year, there
were no tax consequences no matter how much money changed hands.

--
Stu
http://DownToEarthLawyer.com

[ira smilovitz]

On Thursday, June 16, 2016 at 12:30:19 AM UTC-4, Stuart Bronstein wrote:
> Alan <temp...@vacationmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Ira is referencing the 7 day or less rule. If the average rental
> > period during the tax year is 7 days or less, you do not have a
> > rental activity. The activity gets reported on Schedule C.
>
> I thought if the rental activity was 14 days or less in a year, there
> were no tax consequences no matter how much money changed hands.
>
> --
> Stu
> http://DownToEarthLawyer.com
>
> --

These are two separate issues. If the total rental is 14 days or less and the property is used as a residence (not necessarily as a primary residence) by the owner for more than 14 days, then you don't have to report the income. If the total rental is more than 14 days in the year but the average rental period is less than 7 days, you don't have a Schedule E rental activity, you have a Schedule C business. It's not quite as simple as this, but that's the general rule.

Ira Smilovitz

[Stuart Bronstein]

ira smilovitz <ira.sm...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Stuart Bronstein wrote:
>> Alan <temp...@vacationmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Ira is referencing the 7 day or less rule. If the average
>> > rental period during the tax year is 7 days or less, you do not
>> > have a rental activity. The activity gets reported on Schedule
>> > C.
>>
>> I thought if the rental activity was 14 days or less in a year,
>> there were no tax consequences no matter how much money changed
>> hands.
>

> These are two separate issues. If the total rental is 14 days or
> less and the property is used as a residence (not necessarily as a
> primary residence) by the owner for more than 14 days, then you
> don't have to report the income. If the total rental is more than
> 14 days in the year but the average rental period is less than 7
> days, you don't have a Schedule E rental activity, you have a
> Schedule C business. It's not quite as simple as this, but that's
> the general rule.

Thanks for the clarification, Ira. I should have noticed the
difference.

--
Stu
http://DownToEarthLawyer.com

--

[lotax]

Can someone point to the source of the rule that moves a rental to Schedule C, and would subject the rental income (or loss, I guess) to SE tax, when the average tenancy is seven days or less? Thanks.

[Alan]

On 6/19/16 7:12 AM, lotax wrote:
> Can someone point to the source of the rule that moves a rental to Schedule C, and would subject the rental income (or loss, I guess) to SE tax, when the average tenancy is seven days or less? Thanks.
>

The temporary regulations for Section 469 of the IRC and various court
cases that have agreed with those regs.

IRC Section 1.469-9(b)(3)
Reg. § 1.469-1T(e)(3)(ii) and Reg. § 1.469-5T(a)

Todd and Pamela Bailey v. Commissioner, TC Summary Opinion 2011-22 (3/2/11)
Hoskins vs Comm'r, T.C. Memo. 2013-36

[lotax]

Alan- does any of those cites address the self-employment tax question? I've read tham all and can't find a thing in there about the SE tax. They're all about Section 469 and the passive loss limitations.

[Alan]

On 6/20/16 5:47 AM, lotax wrote:
> Alan- does any of those cites address the self-employment tax question? I've read tham all and can't find a thing in there about the SE tax. They're all about Section 469 and the passive loss limitations.
>

They tell you that your income and expense are reported as a business on
Schedule C. As such, your net profit would be subject to SE tax.

[ira smilovitz]

On Monday, June 20, 2016 at 3:32:10 PM UTC-4, Alan wrote:
> On 6/20/16 5:47 AM, lotax wrote:
> > Alan- does any of those cites address the self-employment tax question? I've read tham all and can't find a thing in there about the SE tax. They're all about Section 469 and the passive loss limitations.
> >
> They tell you that your income and expense are reported as a business on
> Schedule C. As such, your net profit would be subject to SE tax.
>
> --

Elaborating on what Alan just wrote, you (lotax) are looking at this backwards. Reporting rental income via Schedule E is an exception to the general rules regarding business income. The IRS and the courts have determined that short-term rentals don't meet the conditions necessary for the special treatment of rental income.

Ira Smilovitz

[lotax]

How have the IRS and the courts chosen to disregard IRC section 1402(a), as follows?

"(a) Net earnings from self-employment
The term “net earnings from self-employment” means the gross income derived by an individual from any trade or business carried on by such individual, less the deductions allowed by this subtitle which are attributable to such trade or business, ... except that in computing such gross income and deductions ... -
(1) **there shall be excluded rentals from real estate and from personal property leased with the real estate** ... together with the deductions attributable thereto, unless such rentals are received in the course of a trade or business as a real estate dealer ...." [**emphasis** added]

I think the IRS and the courts have looked to the *services* provided with the rental real estate, and *not* the length of the rentals, in applying SE tax to rental income from rents of a week or less.

All the cites to Section 469 and its regs apply only in the context of the passive activity rules and have nothing to do with self-employment tax.

[ira smilovitz]

On Tuesday, June 21, 2016 at 5:30:32 PM UTC-4, lotax wrote:
> How have the IRS and the courts chosen to disregard IRC section 1402(a), as follows?
>
> "(a) Net earnings from self-employment
> The term “net earnings from self-employment” means the gross income derived by an individual from any trade or business carried on by such individual, less the deductions allowed by this subtitle which are attributable to such trade or business, ... except that in computing such gross income and deductions ... -
> (1) **there shall be excluded rentals from real estate and from personal property leased with the real estate** ... together with the deductions attributable thereto, unless such rentals are received in the course of a trade or business as a real estate dealer ...." [**emphasis** added]
>
> I think the IRS and the courts have looked to the *services* provided with the rental real estate, and *not* the length of the rentals, in applying SE tax to rental income from rents of a week or less.
>
> All the cites to Section 469 and its regs apply only in the context of the passive activity rules and have nothing to do with self-employment tax.
>
> --

Section 469 defines passive activities and generally includes rental activities as passive. Whether short-term rentals are "rental activities" under the Code is the key point.

Reg. 1.469-4(b) defines types of activities:

(b) Definitions. The following definitions apply for purposes of this section—
(1) Trade or business activities. Trade or business activities are activities, other than rental activities or activities that are treated under § 1.469-1T(e)(3)(vi)(B) as incidental to an activity of holding property for investment, that—
(i) Involve the conduct of a trade or business (within the meaning of section 162);
(ii) Are conducted in anticipation of the commencement of a trade or business; or
(iii) Involve research or experimental expenditures that are deductible under section 174 (or would be deductible if the taxpayer adopted the method described in section 174(a)).
(2) Rental activities. Rental activities are activities that constitute rental activities within the meaning of § 1.469-1T(e)(3).

The problem with your assertion comes at the end of subparagraph (2) above.

Reg. 1.469-1T(e)(3)(ii) carves out six exceptions which make rental a arrangements not rental activities:

(ii) Exceptions. For purposes of this paragraph (e)(3), an activity involving the use of tangible property is not a rental activity for a taxable year if for such taxable year—
(A) The average period of customer use for such property is seven days or less;
(B) The average period of customer use for such property is 30 days or less, and significant personal services (within the meaning of paragraph (e)(3)(iv) of this section) are provided by or on behalf of the owner of the property in connection with making the property available for use by customers;
(C) Extraordinary personal services (within the meaning of paragraph (e)(3)(v) of this section) are provided by or on behalf of the owner of the property in connection with making such property available for use by customers (without regard to the average period of customer use);
(D) The rental of such property is treated as incidental to a nonrental activity of the taxpayer under paragraph (e)(3)(vi) of this section;
(E) The taxpayer customarily makes the property available during defined business hours for nonexclusive use by various customers; or
(F) The provision of the property for use in an activity conducted by a partnership, S corporation, or joint venture in which the taxpayer owns an interest is not a rental activity under paragraph (e)(3)(vii) of this section.

Going back to IRC 469(l), the Secretary has the authority to issue Regs that define what is (not) a passive activity (among other things).

That leaves you with "trade or business" (defined as any activity carried on for the production of income from selling goods or performing services) and income from conducting a trade or business is subject to SE tax.

Ira Smilovitz

[Taxed and Spent]

On 6/21/2016 2:30 PM, lotax wrote:
> How have the IRS and the courts chosen to disregard IRC section 1402(a), as follows?
>
> "(a) Net earnings from self-employment
> The term “net earnings from self-employment” means the gross income derived by an individual from any trade or business carried on by such individual, less the deductions allowed by this subtitle which are attributable to such trade or business, ... except that in computing such gross income and deductions ... -
> (1) **there shall be excluded rentals from real estate and from personal property leased with the real estate** ... together with the deductions attributable thereto, unless such rentals are received in the course of a trade or business as a real estate dealer ...." [**emphasis** added]
>
> I think the IRS and the courts have looked to the *services* provided with the rental real estate, and *not* the length of the rentals, in applying SE tax to rental income from rents of a week or less.
>
> All the cites to Section 469 and its regs apply only in the context of the passive activity rules and have nothing to do with self-employment tax.
>

You may be right. It takes a lot of doing to be considered by the IRS
and the courts to be in the "Trade or Business" of rentals.

[lotax]

Did you see the place where the quoted Reg. 1.469-4(b) says "...for purposes of this section"? These regulations apply to Section 469, but they don't apply to Section 1402.

[ira smilovitz]

On Tuesday, June 21, 2016 at 8:21:39 PM UTC-4, lotax wrote:
> Did you see the place where the quoted Reg. 1.469-4(b) says "...for purposes of this section"? These regulations apply to Section 469, but they don't apply to Section 1402.
>
> --

Where is the definition of "rentals from real estate" that applies to Section 1402? If this distinction (definition in 1.469-4(b) vs. your "plain text" reading) is important to you personally (or for a client you represent), feel free to challenge the IRS on this. I am comfortable with the determination that the various parts of the 1.469 regs make short term rentals a "trade or business" for the purpose of SE Tax.

Ira Smilovitz

[lotax]

Here's a quote from IRS's Publication 334. If the 7-days (or less) rule really applied to the rental of real estate, don't you think the IRS would include that in this paragraph?

"If you are a real estate dealer who receives income from renting real property or an owner of a hotel, motel, etc., who provides services (maid services, etc.) for guests, report the rental income and expenses on Schedule C or C-EZ. If you are not a real estate dealer or the kind of owner described in the preceding sentence, report the rental income and expenses on Schedule E. For more information, see Pub. 527, Residential Rental Property (Including Rental of Vacation Homes)."

At the risk of redundancy, I will repeat: "If you are not a real estate dealer or the kind of owner described in the preceding sentence, report the rental income and expenses on Schedule E." There is no mention at all of the length of the average lease. The 7-day test is all about passive activity, and not at all about self-employment tax.

[Alan]

On 6/21/16 5:44 PM, lotax wrote:
> Here's a quote from IRS's Publication 334. If the 7-days (or less) rule really applied to the rental of real estate, don't you think the IRS would include that in this paragraph?
>
> "If you are a real estate dealer who receives income from renting real property or an owner of a hotel, motel, etc., who provides services (maid services, etc.) for guests, report the rental income and expenses on Schedule C or C-EZ. If you are not a real estate dealer or the kind of owner described in the preceding sentence, report the rental income and expenses on Schedule E. For more information, see Pub. 527, Residential Rental Property (Including Rental of Vacation Homes)."
>
> At the risk of redundancy, I will repeat: "If you are not a real estate dealer or the kind of owner described in the preceding sentence, report the rental income and expenses on Schedule E." There is no mention at all of the length of the average lease. The 7-day test is all about passive activity, and not at all about self-employment tax.
>

Did you read Hoskins?

"The parties agree that in 2006 Midnight #1 was not rental real estate
and that in 2007 both Midnight #1 and Midnight #2 were not rental real
estate because the average period of customer use was seven days or less
during those periods. Thus, these properties are not rental activities
for purposes of section 469(c)(2) and are considered a trade or business
or an income-producing activity.
See Bailey v. Commissioner, T.C. Memo. 2001-296."

[Taxed and Spent]

On 6/21/2016 5:44 PM, lotax wrote:
> Here's a quote from IRS's Publication 334. If the 7-days (or less) rule really applied to the rental of real estate, don't you think the IRS would include that in this paragraph?
>
> "If you are a real estate dealer who receives income from renting real property or an owner of a hotel, motel, etc., who provides services (maid services, etc.) for guests, report the rental income and expenses on Schedule C or C-EZ. If you are not a real estate dealer or the kind of owner described in the preceding sentence, report the rental income and expenses on Schedule E. For more information, see Pub. 527, Residential Rental Property (Including Rental of Vacation Homes)."
>
> At the risk of redundancy, I will repeat: "If you are not a real estate dealer or the kind of owner described in the preceding sentence, report the rental income and expenses on Schedule E." There is no mention at all of the length of the average lease. The 7-day test is all about passive activity, and not at all about self-employment tax.
>

Don't Airbnb landlords provide services, i.e. clean up the place, wash
the linens, make the bed, etc. in order to make it ready for the next
guest?

[ira smilovitz]

On Tuesday, June 21, 2016 at 8:46:53 PM UTC-4, lotax wrote:
> Here's a quote from IRS's Publication 334. If the 7-days (or less) rule really applied to the rental of real estate, don't you think the IRS would include that in this paragraph?
>
> "If you are a real estate dealer who receives income from renting real property or an owner of a hotel, motel, etc., who provides services (maid services, etc.) for guests, report the rental income and expenses on Schedule C or C-EZ. If you are not a real estate dealer or the kind of owner described in the preceding sentence, report the rental income and expenses on Schedule E. For more information, see Pub. 527, Residential Rental Property (Including Rental of Vacation Homes)."
>
> At the risk of redundancy, I will repeat: "If you are not a real estate dealer or the kind of owner described in the preceding sentence, report the rental income and expenses on Schedule E." There is no mention at all of the length of the average lease. The 7-day test is all about passive activity, and not at all about self-employment tax.
>
> --

This is the easiest to explain. First, IRS Publications have no authority. They make no representation that they contain all the information relevant to a given situation. Second, the IRS could (and probably does) consider an Airbnb rental to be "a hotel, motel, etc."

Ira Smilovitz

[Stuart Bronstein]

lotax <lo...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> All the cites to Section 469 and its regs apply only in the
> context of the passive activity rules and have nothing to do with
> self-employment tax.

Sure. But if income isn't passive, it's earned. And if it's earned,
it's subject to self-employment tax.

--
Stu
http://DownToEarthLawyer.com
https://www.etsy.com/shop/studiobethdesigns

[lotax]

Stuart says "Sure. But if income isn't passive, it's earned. And if it's earned,

it's subject to self-employment tax."

And I disagree, wholeheartedly. Nothing about the taxation of rental real estate is *ever* that (over)simplified.

A real estate rental activity with an average "tenancy" of seven days or less may be either subject to SE tax, or not subject to SE tax, and it depends on how much "service" is provided by the landlord.

[lotax]

On Tuesday, June 21, 2016 at 10:37:48 PM UTC-4, Alan wrote:
> On 6/21/16 5:44 PM, lotax wrote:
> > Here's a quote from IRS's Publication 334. If the 7-days (or less) rule really applied to the rental of real estate, don't you think the IRS would include that in this paragraph?
> >
> > "If you are a real estate dealer who receives income from renting real property or an owner of a hotel, motel, etc., who provides services (maid services, etc.) for guests, report the rental income and expenses on Schedule C or C-EZ. If you are not a real estate dealer or the kind of owner described in the preceding sentence, report the rental income and expenses on Schedule E. For more information, see Pub. 527, Residential Rental Property (Including Rental of Vacation Homes)."
> >
> > At the risk of redundancy, I will repeat: "If you are not a real estate dealer or the kind of owner described in the preceding sentence, report the rental income and expenses on Schedule E." There is no mention at all of the length of the average lease. The 7-day test is all about passive activity, and not at all about self-employment tax.
> >
> Did you read Hoskins?
>
> "The parties agree that in 2006 Midnight #1 was not rental real estate
> and that in 2007 both Midnight #1 and Midnight #2 were not rental real
> estate because the average period of customer use was seven days or less
> during those periods. Thus, these properties are not rental activities
> for purposes of section 469(c)(2) and are considered a trade or business
> or an income-producing activity.
> See Bailey v. Commissioner, T.C. Memo. 2001-296."
>
> --

Yes, I read Hoskins, and the paragraph that you've quoted has *nothing* to do with self-employment tax. If you'll allow me, I'll add something to the last sentence of your quote to illustrate what I'm trying to explain:

"Thus, these properties are not rental activities for purposes of section 469(c)(2) and are considered a trade or business, in which case SE tax applies, or an income-producing activity, in which case SE tax does not apply."

Can you show me otherwise?

[lotax]

One more try. Please read the following example, which follows Reg Sec 1.1402(a)-4(c), Rentals from real estate.

Example.
A, an individual, owns a building containing four apartments. During the taxable year, he receives $1,400 from apartments numbered 1 and 2, which are rented without services rendered to the occupants, and $3,600 from apartments numbered 3 and 4, which are rented with services rendered to the occupants. His fixed expenses for the four apartments aggregate $1,200 during the taxable year. In addition, he has $500 of expenses attributable to the services rendered to the occupants of apartments 3 and 4. In determining his net earnings from self-employment, A includes the $3,600 received from apartments 3 and 4, and the expenses of $1,100 ($500 plus one-half of $1,200) attributable thereto. The rentals and expenses attributable to apartments 1 and 2 are excluded. Therefore, A has $2,500 of net earnings from self-employment for the taxable year from the building.

The *only* difference between the two pairs of apartments is that 1 and 2 are rented without services, and 3 and 4 are rented with services. And 1 and 2 are therefore *not* subject to SE tax while 3 and 4 are. In this instance, the length of the rentals is entirely irrelevant. Get it?

[Stuart Bronstein]

lotax <lo...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> The *only* difference between the two pairs of apartments is that
> 1 and 2 are rented without services, and 3 and 4 are rented with
> services. And 1 and 2 are therefore *not* subject to SE tax while
> 3 and 4 are. In this instance, the length of the rentals is
> entirely irrelevant. Get it?

Sure. The rental period being an issue is not in the code, it's only a
rule of thumb. Enforcement of the tax laws is filled with things like
that.

--
Stu
http://DownToEarthLawyer.com
https://www.etsy.com/shop/studiobethdesigns