Why do I need an intermediary to e-File?

[Salmon Egg]

I just finished preparing my Federal and California 2012 income tax
returns. I used TurboTax for the purpose. I still hate it, but it was
useful when one number had to be changed late in the process. Now it is
time to file.

TurboTax e-files a single Federal return for no extra charge. It charges
about $20 to e-file a California return. What does it actually do for
that charge? Why am I not allowed to file for myself. Supposedly, it
would be simpler for the Feds and State to take a digital version of my
forms rather than to scan paper forms. With relatively modern computers,
they could even get fax copies to substitute for paper.

Because the first filing is free, most people would not question just
what service is performed by e-filing. TurboTax is in no position to
guarantee the veracity of the return or its signatures.

In my paranoia, I think that there is a lobby that has managed to
restrict e-filing to the Tax Preparers Guild. It may even be possible
for these filers to glean useful information off of my return.

I am thinking of just being ornery and just sending paper copies of my
return.

--

Sam

Conservatives are against Darwinism but for natural selection.
Liberals are for Darwinism but totally against any selection.

--
<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>
<< The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, >>
<< nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties >>
<< that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. >>
<< >>
<< The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts >>
<< to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy >>
<< are at www.asktax.org. >>
<< Copyright (2011) - All rights reserved. >>
<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>

[removep...@yahoo.com]

On Saturday, March 30, 2013 10:54:11 AM UTC-7, Salmon Egg wrote:

> TurboTax e-files a single Federal return for no extra charge. It charges
> about $20 to e-file a California return. What does it actually do for
> that charge? Why am I not allowed to file for myself. Supposedly, it

You're basically paying for the program to calculate the CA tax.

[Salmon Egg]

In article <7d442956-ff23-4364...@googlegroups.com>,

"removep...@yahoo.com" <removep...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> On Saturday, March 30, 2013 10:54:11 AM UTC-7, Salmon Egg wrote:
>
> > TurboTax e-files a single Federal return for no extra charge. It charges
> > about $20 to e-file a California return. What does it actually do for
> > that charge? Why am I not allowed to file for myself. Supposedly, it
>
> You're basically paying for the program to calculate the CA tax.

That makes no sense. The program calculates the CA tax whether I file
electronically or not. The only thing is that I am so POed by the time I
am done, that almost anything seems better.

TurboTax even sucker punched me at the end. I could not copy and paste
the FTB address onto an envelope file. I had to carefully retype every
character.

--

Sam

Conservatives are against Darwinism but for natural selection.
Liberals are for Darwinism but totally against any selection.

========================================= MODERATOR'S COMMENT:
Please avoid using this group to bash software products. This
message was allowed through because it asked a legitimate question.

[Ron Rosenfeld]

On Sat, 30 Mar 2013 13:54:11 EDT, Salmon Egg <Salm...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>I am thinking of just being ornery and just sending paper copies of my
>return.

I don't think that would be "ornery". For me it's just common sense.

I e-file my federal return since the cost is included in the cost of the software. (I use Taxcut, not Turbotax, but the principle is the same). I've always paper-filed my state returns, declining to pay the $20 fee (but paying the USPS fee for confirming delivery). I'd have to be getting a pretty large return to make paying the e-filing fee worthwhile. And, as long as I have proof of delivery, I see no advantage to me from e-filing.

I think the intermediary probably has to verify that there are not structural errors in the return. Why that can't be done by the software itself is beyond me.

[Alan]

On Saturday, March 30, 2013 11:54:11 AM UTC-6, Salmon Egg wrote:
Assuming Intuit is on the ball, they should be pricing their offerings to what the market will bear. The price they charge you to e-file your return is based on their belief that $20 is a competitive price and the market will pay it and maximize their profit vs charging some other amount. The price has nothing to do with anything else.

[Pico Rico]

"Salmon Egg" <Salm...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:SalmonEgg-27CB6...@news60.forteinc.com...

>I just finished preparing my Federal and California 2012 income tax
> returns. I used TurboTax for the purpose. I still hate it, but it was
> useful when one number had to be changed late in the process. Now it is
> time to file.
>
> TurboTax e-files a single Federal return for no extra charge. It charges
> about $20 to e-file a California return. What does it actually do for
> that charge? Why am I not allowed to file for myself. Supposedly, it
> would be simpler for the Feds and State to take a digital version of my
> forms rather than to scan paper forms. With relatively modern computers,
> they could even get fax copies to substitute for paper.
>
> Because the first filing is free, most people would not question just
> what service is performed by e-filing. TurboTax is in no position to
> guarantee the veracity of the return or its signatures.
>
> In my paranoia, I think that there is a lobby that has managed to
> restrict e-filing to the Tax Preparers Guild. It may even be possible
> for these filers to glean useful information off of my return.
>

you are not being paranoid. Search this topic and you will see that Intuit
spends a lot of lobbying money.

Why can the IRS not send out pre-filled and pre-calculated tax forms for the
majority of filers, based on their W2 and 1099 information, as is done in
certain other countries? The taxpayer can always decline and file their own
return if necessary.

The tax preparation industry, including CPAs, tax planners, etc. just love
the job security.

[bo peep]

On Saturday, March 30, 2013 11:54:11 AM UTC-6, Salmon Egg wrote:

> I am thinking of just being ornery and just sending paper copies of my
> return.

You can efile online yourself for free - see
https://www.ftb.ca.gov/online/calfile/index.asp

[Phil Marti]

On Saturday, March 30, 2013 11:17:05 PM UTC-4, Pico Rico wrote:

> Why can the IRS not send out pre-filled and pre-calculated tax forms for the
> majority of filers, based on their W2 and 1099 information, as is done in
> certain other countries?

They could, but it would be later in the year since they don't have everything by April 15. Of course, that date didn't come down from Moses.

A bigger question to me is why can't you e-file directly through the IRS website like you can in at least three states? (I suspect there are a lot more, but I've had personal experience with only three.)

The software lobby has been mentioned as a prominent player, and no doubt it is. But I really don't think that the ability to punch numbers into the IRS site would cut down much on software sales, plus it would relieve them of having to deal with the e-file process.

Phil Marti
VITA/TCE Volunteer
Clarksburg, MD

[Vic Dura]

On Sat, 30 Mar 2013 13:54:11 EDT, Salmon Egg <Salm...@sbcglobal.net>

wrote Re Why do I need an intermediary to e-File?:

>I am thinking of just being ornery and just sending paper copies of my
>return.

I have been using tax prep software since 1987 (long before eFile was
invented) and have never yet eFiled, even though I wouldn't have to
pay a charge for it. Since I seldom get a refund of more than $50,
there is no advantage to it for me and I like being able to see
exactly what is being sent.

The only advantage to the tax payer that I can see with eFile is that
if you are due a large refund, you can get it faster.
--
To email me directly, remove CLUTTER.

[Pico Rico]

"bo peep" <cowar...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:40c904cf-a238-4973...@googlegroups.com...

> On Saturday, March 30, 2013 11:54:11 AM UTC-6, Salmon Egg wrote:
>
>> I am thinking of just being ornery and just sending paper copies of my
>> return.
>
> You can efile online yourself for free - see
> https://www.ftb.ca.gov/online/calfile/index.asp
>

MAYBE: see qualifications at:
https://www.ftb.ca.gov/online/calfile/qualifications.shtml?WT.mc_id=CalFile_Sidebar_Qualifications

no HSA, Schedules C, D, E, F, and a few other limitations.

[Salmon Egg]

In article <ce7dd1be-5f6f-4f00...@googlegroups.com>,

Alan <temp...@vacationmail.com> wrote:

> On Saturday, March 30, 2013 11:54:11 AM UTC-6, Salmon Egg wrote:
> Assuming Intuit is on the ball, they should be pricing their offerings to
> what the market will bear. The price they charge you to e-file your return is
> based on their belief that $20 is a competitive price and the market will pay
> it and maximize their profit vs charging some other amount. The price has
> nothing to do with anything else.

What would the price be if you could do it yourself. I guess my real
question is: What prevents me from e-filing. I have a computer. I have
internet. I have a fax. If there were use for a data modem for a direct
telephone connection, I would have that as well. I used to have that
before internet.

It is such nonsense that breeds conspiracy theories.

--

Sam

Conservatives are against Darwinism but for natural selection.
Liberals are for Darwinism but totally against any selection.

[remove ps]

Salmon Egg wrote:

> In article <7d442956-ff23-4364...@googlegroups.com>,
> "removep...@yahoo.com" <removep...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > On Saturday, March 30, 2013 10:54:11 AM UTC-7, Salmon Egg wrote:
> >
> > > TurboTax e-files a single Federal return for no extra charge. It
> > > charges about $20 to e-file a California return. What does it
> > > actually do for that charge? Why am I not allowed to file for
> > > myself. Supposedly, it
> >
> > You're basically paying for the program to calculate the CA tax.
>
> That makes no sense. The program calculates the CA tax whether I file
> electronically or not. The only thing is that I am so POed by the
> time I am done, that almost anything seems better.
>
> TurboTax even sucker punched me at the end. I could not copy and
> paste the FTB address onto an envelope file. I had to carefully
> retype every character.

Maybe Turbotax shouldp price their products differently. If you want
to be able to calculate state taxes then buy that state module up
front, and then state filing is free. Perhaps they want to make cost
look dirt cheap so exclude the extra fees. But someone mentioned that
you can buy the federal cost, print out the state return, and mail it
in. So then I don't know why they charge so much. They must surely
have to comply with state regulations, but $20 seems a bit much.
Remember that printing is around 5 cents a page, and if there are lots
of forms (likely as you have to include the first two pages of 1040),
it could be $1.50 to mail, and another $2 or so to make it certified.

[Mark Bole]

On 2013-03-31 13:56, remove ps wrote:
> Salmon Egg wrote:
>
>> In article <7d442956-ff23-4364...@googlegroups.com>,
>> "removep...@yahoo.com" <removep...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Saturday, March 30, 2013 10:54:11 AM UTC-7, Salmon Egg wrote:
>>>
>>>> TurboTax e-files a single Federal return for no extra charge. It
>>>> charges about $20 to e-file a California return. What does it
>>>> actually do for that charge? Why am I not allowed to file for
>>>> myself. Supposedly, it
>>>
>>> You're basically paying for the program to calculate the CA tax.
>>
>> That makes no sense. The program calculates the CA tax whether I file
>> electronically or not. The only thing is that I am so POed by the
>> time I am done, that almost anything seems better.
>>
>> TurboTax even sucker punched me at the end. I could not copy and
>> paste the FTB address onto an envelope file. I had to carefully
>> retype every character.
>

This is strange... I see this one reply, but my old reliable newsgroup
server (Eternal September, nee Motzarella) did not deliver any of the
original messages in the thread to my newsreader. A quick glance at
Google Groups shows the full thread. Maybe just me, maybe not.

Anyway, you CAN efile for free in CA. Go to ftb.ca.gov, look for
Calfile and ReadyFile. I have used the former with success, back when I
still used TurboTax.

It is very ignorant to assume that the software and other infrastructure
that makes efiling possible is free of cost. The taxpayers have funded a
level of free filing (see previous paragraph), but why should Intuit and
other vendors do so?

Who do you think keeps the servers and routers and software (including
tax law changes every year) and backups and security and 24x7 access
going? Gnomes? No, there are actual human beings whose employment
includes making your life more convenient, should you choose to be an
Intuit (or whoever) customer.


--

Mark Bole, EA
Enrolled Agents - America's Tax Experts
http://markboletax.com

[Mark Bole]

> What would the price be if you could do it yourself. I guess my real
> question is: What prevents me from e-filing. I have a computer. I have
> internet. I have a fax. If there were use for a data modem for a direct
> telephone connection, I would have that as well. I used to have that
> before internet.

Nothing beyond your own capabilities prevents you from becoming an efile
transmitter yourself. The information you need is all out there via
taxpayer-funded internet servers.

The fact that you don't have to efile, but you are still whining about
the option of paying for it, speaks for itself.

Indeed, there is very little use for a data modem and a "direct"
telephone connection these days, as you state. I'm almost at the point
where I will charge a client if they want to send me a fax.

--

Mark Bole, EA
Enrolled Agents - America's Tax Experts
http://markboletax.com

[Alan]

On 3/31/13 3:21 PM, Mark Bole wrote:
>
> This is strange... I see this one reply, but my old reliable newsgroup
> server (Eternal September, nee Motzarella) did not deliver any of the
> original messages in the thread to my newsreader. A quick glance at
> Google Groups shows the full thread. Maybe just me, maybe not.
>

Not just you. I'm only getting 3 posts from the eternal-september server
via the Thunderbird client and Google Groups has 14 posts.
____
Alan
http://taxtopics.net

[Salmon Egg]

In article <kja98q$8ve$1...@dont-email.me>, Mark Bole <ma...@pacbell.net>
wrote:

> Who do you think keeps the servers and routers and software (including
> tax law changes every year) and backups and security and 24x7 access
> going? Gnomes? No, there are actual human beings whose employment
> includes making your life more convenient, should you choose to be an
> Intuit (or whoever) customer.

I do not mind paying for service. Intuit not only takes grief away, but
it also shoves some down my throat.

Just one:

I go to forms and select 1040.

I have to mouse to the lower right corner to drag the window in order to
expose the entire window.

I find line 8a and double click on it to look at interest entries.

I then select 1040 again.again instead of near line 8a. TurboTax does
not like page-down.

That means I have to use another mouse search to get to line 8b only to
find that I go back to Schedule B which I just left.

--

Sam

Conservatives are against Darwinism but for natural selection.
Liberals are for Darwinism but totally against any selection.

[Salmon Egg]

In article <kjacc7$sat$1...@dont-email.me>,

Alan <temp...@vacationmail.com> wrote:

> On 3/31/13 3:21 PM, Mark Bole wrote:
> >
> > This is strange... I see this one reply, but my old reliable newsgroup
> > server (Eternal September, nee Motzarella) did not deliver any of the
> > original messages in the thread to my newsreader. A quick glance at
> > Google Groups shows the full thread. Maybe just me, maybe not.
> >
> Not just you. I'm only getting 3 posts from the eternal-september server
> via the Thunderbird client and Google Groups has 14 posts.
> ____
> Alan
> http://taxtopics.net

A few days ago, PBS had a story about a denial of service war between
spammers and anti-spammers. It is believed that the volume affected much
of the internet not directly involved.

--

Sam

Conservatives are against Darwinism but for natural selection.
Liberals are for Darwinism but totally against any selection.

[Barry Margolin]

In article <SalmonEgg-45AD2...@news60.forteinc.com>,

Salmon Egg <Salm...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> In article <kjacc7$sat$1...@dont-email.me>,
> Alan <temp...@vacationmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On 3/31/13 3:21 PM, Mark Bole wrote:
> > >
> > > This is strange... I see this one reply, but my old reliable newsgroup
> > > server (Eternal September, nee Motzarella) did not deliver any of the
> > > original messages in the thread to my newsreader. A quick glance at
> > > Google Groups shows the full thread. Maybe just me, maybe not.
> > >
> > Not just you. I'm only getting 3 posts from the eternal-september server
> > via the Thunderbird client and Google Groups has 14 posts.
> > ____
> > Alan
> > http://taxtopics.net
>
> A few days ago, PBS had a story about a denial of service war between
> spammers and anti-spammers. It is believed that the volume affected much
> of the internet not directly involved.

I don't think that's related.

If you read the eternal-september.support group, you'll see that the
operator of the service reported that one of his servers was down, and
he was waiting for the datacenter operators to respond to his restart
request.

--
Barry Margolin
Arlington, MA

[Bill Brown]

On Mar 31, 8:25�pm, Salmon Egg <Salmon...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> In article <kja98q$8v...@dont-email.me>, Mark Bole <ma...@pacbell.net>

> wrote:
>
> > Who do you think keeps the servers and routers and software (including
> > tax law changes every year) and backups and security and 24x7 access
> > going? �Gnomes? � No, there are actual human beings whose employment
> > includes making your life more convenient, should you choose to be an
> > Intuit (or whoever) customer.
>
> I do not mind paying for service. Intuit not only takes grief away, but
> it also shoves some down my throat.
>
> Just one:
>
> I go to forms and select 1040.
>
> I have to mouse to the lower right corner to drag the window in order to
> expose the entire window.
>
> I find line 8a and double click on it to look at interest entries.
>
> I then select 1040 again.again instead of near line 8a. TurboTax does
> not like page-down.
>
> That means I have to use another mouse search to get to line 8b only to
> find that I go back to Schedule B which I just left.
>
> --

Use another program or use pencil and a four function calculator if
you don't like TurboTax.

[Rich Carreiro]

"Pico Rico" <Pico...@nonospam.com> writes:

>Why can the IRS not send out pre-filled and pre-calculated tax forms for the
>majority of filers, based on their W2 and 1099 information, as is done in
>certain other countries? The taxpayer can always decline and file their own
>return if necessary.

Getting dangerously into politics here, but what the hell...

Why I can't stand the idea you mention:

1) It'll be an undeserved windfall for the US govt.
Out of ignorance, fear, inertia, etc. too many
people will blindly click "OK on the pre-calculated
return and will overpay.

2) It'll continue the trend toward mentally decoupling
people from their tax burden. Instituting withholding
was a huge jump in that direction and this would
continue to worsen it. Not a direction the country
should be moving further in.

I have no love for the tax software industry -- it's fine
with me if the IRS wants to offer free web filing like CA, MA,
etc. do for state returns.

But I am vehemently against the pre-calculated return idea.

--
Rich Carreiro rlc-...@rlcarr.com

[John Levine]

>Why can the IRS not send out pre-filled and pre-calculated tax forms for the
>majority of filers, based on their W2 and 1099 information, as is done in
>certain other countries? The taxpayer can always decline and file their own
>return if necessary.

Because Intuit spends a fortune lobbying to prevent it:

http://www.propublica.org/article/how-the-maker-of-turbotax-fought-free-simple-tax-filing

--
Regards,
John Levine, jo...@iecc.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. http://jl.ly

[Barry Margolin]

In article <kj85p6$4t3$1...@news.mixmin.net>,

"Pico Rico" <Pico...@nonospam.com> wrote:

> Why can the IRS not send out pre-filled and pre-calculated tax forms for the
> majority of filers, based on their W2 and 1099 information, as is done in
> certain other countries? The taxpayer can always decline and file their own
> return if necessary.
>
> The tax preparation industry, including CPAs, tax planners, etc. just love
> the job security.

How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing

http://www.propublica.org/article/how-the-maker-of-turbotax-fought-free-s
imple-tax-filing/single

--
Barry Margolin
Arlington, MA

[Salmon Egg]

In article <87wqsm7...@swing-shift.time-tripper.com>,

Rich Carreiro <rlc-...@rlcarr.com> wrote:

> "Pico Rico" <Pico...@nonospam.com> writes:
>
> >Why can the IRS not send out pre-filled and pre-calculated tax forms for the
> >majority of filers, based on their W2 and 1099 information, as is done in
> >certain other countries? The taxpayer can always decline and file their own
> >return if necessary.
>
> Getting dangerously into politics here, but what the hell...
>
> Why I can't stand the idea you mention:
>
> 1) It'll be an undeserved windfall for the US govt.
> Out of ignorance, fear, inertia, etc. too many
> people will blindly click "OK on the pre-calculated
> return and will overpay.
>
> 2) It'll continue the trend toward mentally decoupling
> people from their tax burden. Instituting withholding
> was a huge jump in that direction and this would
> continue to worsen it. Not a direction the country
> should be moving further in.
>
> I have no love for the tax software industry -- it's fine
> with me if the IRS wants to offer free web filing like CA, MA,
> etc. do for state returns.
>
> But I am vehemently against the pre-calculated return idea.
>
> --
> Rich Carreiro rlc-...@rlcarr.com

Let me sere if I understand you. It is OK for a firm or industry to get
a windfall but not for "the US govt." I would be very happy to let the
the US govt or even a company like Intuit get a wind fall of, say $200,
to get all my tax forms and use their supposedly good software to submit
my taxes, based upon a standard deduction. If I dispute their
calculation I should always be entitled to drudge through all the
paperwork to provide the TRUE amount of tax liability.

In my dealings with the working stiff Government employees, I have
always found them trying top do a good job. Are the incompetent
sometimes? You bet. I know that it may be hard to believe, but once in a
while I have done something incompetent myself.

Oh! There is a better way! Have our Public servants simplify the tax
code. Unfortunately, I do not expect to live that long. Instead, just to
keep a modest windfall from the US govt., make things difficult an keep
people working in a tax industry.

--

Sam

Conservatives are against Darwinism but for natural selection.
Liberals are for Darwinism but totally against any selection.

[Mark Bole]

On 2013-04-02 11:49, John Levine wrote:
>> Why can the IRS not send out pre-filled and pre-calculated tax forms for the
>> majority of filers, based on their W2 and 1099 information, as is done in
>> certain other countries? The taxpayer can always decline and file their own
>> return if necessary.
>
> Because Intuit spends a fortune lobbying to prevent it:
>
> http://www.propublica.org/article/how-the-maker-of-turbotax-fought-free-simple-tax-filing
>

You can see how ridiculous the article referenced above is when you read
this sample:

"When you make an appointment for a car to get serviced, the service
history is all there."

That is clearly not the case when I have previously visited a car
service company, and left them for another company because I did not get
good value for my fee paid.

There is a niche of taxpayers who have nothing but wage income (1040-EZ
filers) who would benefit. States such as CA only provide ReadyFile to
this subset of taxpayers.

--

Mark Bole, EA
Enrolled Agents - America's Tax Experts
http://markboletax.com

[John Levine]

>> http://www.propublica.org/article/how-the-maker-of-turbotax-fought-free-simple-tax-filing
>
>You can see how ridiculous the article referenced above is when you read
>this sample:
>
>"When you make an appointment for a car to get serviced, the service
>history is all there."
>
>That is clearly not the case when I have previously visited a car
>service company, and left them for another company because I did not get
>good value for my fee paid.

If we have the option of switching to another agency if we aren't
satisfied with the value provided by the Internal Revenue Service,
please provide details.

>There is a niche of taxpayers who have nothing but wage income (1040-EZ
>filers) who would benefit. States such as CA only provide ReadyFile to
>this subset of taxpayers.

Yes, as the article says, it'd be about 40% of taxpayers.

Lots of other other countries provide automatic income tax filing for
their residents. It seems to work out fine, and I don't think it's
because their tax codes are less complex than ours.

R's,
John

--
Regards,
John Levine, jo...@iecc.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. http://jl.ly

[Barry Margolin]

In article <kjgdld$gag$1...@leila.iecc.com>, John Levine <jo...@iecc.com>
wrote:

> >> http://www.propublica.org/article/how-the-maker-of-turbotax-fought-free-sim

> >> ple-tax-filing
> >
> >You can see how ridiculous the article referenced above is when you read
> >this sample:
> >
> >"When you make an appointment for a car to get serviced, the service
> >history is all there."
> >
> >That is clearly not the case when I have previously visited a car
> >service company, and left them for another company because I did not get
> >good value for my fee paid.
>
> If we have the option of switching to another agency if we aren't
> satisfied with the value provided by the Internal Revenue Service,
> please provide details.
>
> >There is a niche of taxpayers who have nothing but wage income (1040-EZ
> >filers) who would benefit. States such as CA only provide ReadyFile to
> >this subset of taxpayers.
>
> Yes, as the article says, it'd be about 40% of taxpayers.

Although that estimate is from a 2003 report. And if you follow the link
to the report, the ranges in its estimates are huge. For instance, the
estimate from a Treasury Dept study in 2000 is "between 8 and 57 million
taxpayers, or up to 44% of filers". So it could be as low as 6%.

Anyone who files Schedule D probably wouldn't be eligible. And if you
have large enough medical bills or misc deductions, you wouldn't be able
to auto-file.

I expect that most of the people who could use a system like this could
use the 1040A or 1040-EZ.

>
> Lots of other other countries provide automatic income tax filing for
> their residents. It seems to work out fine, and I don't think it's
> because their tax codes are less complex than ours.

What's the chance that any other country has tax codes as complex as
ours? More specifically, do the handful of countries with return-free
filing have as complex tax codes?

--
Barry Margolin
Arlington, MA

[paulthomascpa]

"Vic Dura" <vpd...@CLUTTERhiwaay.net> wrote

> On Sat, 30 Mar 2013 13:54:11 EDT, Salmon Egg
> <Salm...@sbcglobal.net> wrote
> Re Why do I need an intermediary to e-File?:
>
>>I am thinking of just being ornery and just sending paper copies of my
>>return.
>
> I have been using tax prep software since 1987 (long before eFile was
> invented) and have never yet eFiled, even though I wouldn't have to
> pay a charge for it. Since I seldom get a refund of more than $50,
> there is no advantage to it for me and I like being able to see
> exactly what is being sent.
>
> The only advantage to the tax payer that I can see with eFile is that
> if you are due a large refund, you can get it faster.

Some advantages to e-file are that you've already filled in the IRS computer
with your data (you're just using third party software to do that). With
paper filed returns someone is having to rekey every line (or almost every
line), and in doing so errors can happen, and I've seen some whoppers.

With e-file you get confirmation that your return was accepted, not so with
mailed in returns unless you go the extra route and send certified with
return receipt.

It also saves on paper since you're not printing the paper copies and using
an envelope to mail them in.

There are also other potential benefits to e-file, but my brain is fried
right now.

Oh, as far as waiting on the IRS to develop user friendly tax software
suitable for the average taxpayer / tax filer with the average computer,
yeah. Keep waiting on that one. I'd much rather pay the consumer software
providers than the extra taxes that it would take to get useable software
out of the government.

Can you imagine the tech support? Let alone the "call an expert" line?


--
Paul Thomas, CPA
www.paulthomascpa.com
Watkinsville, Georgia

[Barry Margolin]

In article <Z6CdnVDtEdG9gsHM...@giganews.com>,

"paulthomascpa" <paultho...@bellsouth.net> wrote:

> Oh, as far as waiting on the IRS to develop user friendly tax software
> suitable for the average taxpayer / tax filer with the average computer,
> yeah. Keep waiting on that one. I'd much rather pay the consumer software
> providers than the extra taxes that it would take to get useable software
> out of the government.
>
> Can you imagine the tech support? Let alone the "call an expert" line?

They could just contract it out to one of the consumer tax software
vendors. Call it Obama-TurboTax.

--
Barry Margolin
Arlington, MA

[John Levine]

>> Lots of other other countries provide automatic income tax filing for
>> their residents. It seems to work out fine, and I don't think it's
>> because their tax codes are less complex than ours.
>
>What's the chance that any other country has tax codes as complex as
>ours? More specifically, do the handful of countries with return-free
>filing have as complex tax codes?

Probably not, but we're not talking about automatic online filing for
everyone, just the people with simple returns, and the tax rules at
the low end aren't that complicated.

I'd expect that everyone who files a 1040E-Z and many (most?) of the
people with a 1040A don't tell the IRS anything it doesn't already
know.

--
Regards,
John Levine, jo...@iecc.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. http://jl.ly

[Barry Margolin]

In article <kjhnuo$112s$2...@leila.iecc.com>, John Levine <jo...@iecc.com>
wrote:

> >> Lots of other other countries provide automatic income tax filing for
> >> their residents. It seems to work out fine, and I don't think it's
> >> because their tax codes are less complex than ours.
> >
> >What's the chance that any other country has tax codes as complex as
> >ours? More specifically, do the handful of countries with return-free
> >filing have as complex tax codes?
>
> Probably not, but we're not talking about automatic online filing for
> everyone, just the people with simple returns, and the tax rules at
> the low end aren't that complicated.
>
> I'd expect that everyone who files a 1040E-Z and many (most?) of the
> people with a 1040A don't tell the IRS anything it doesn't already
> know.

That's exactly what I said in part of the post that you snipped.

Although even the 1040A includes a number of deductions and credits that
many average taxpayers may have: tuition deductions, student loan
interest, child care credits. Does the IRS know these amounts?

Although it's not the same as return-free tax filing, I believe both
TurboTax and TaxAct offer free online completion and e-filing of these
simple forms.

--
Barry Margolin
Arlington, MA