Why isn't everyone audited?

[fa...@squashclub.org]

If you walk into any retail store, someone will gladly spend their time to sell you an item worth just a few dollars. With the IRS, you are sending them tens of thousands of dollars, yet never have any human interaction?!!

Why can't they spend at least an hour to do a "quick audit" ? Just by asking a few simple questions they could easily determine if something fishy is going on or not. Then they can recommend you for further auditing.

It just seems so weird to have no human interaction given the incredible amount of money you send them!

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[Dick Adams]

<fa...@squashclub.org> wrote:
> If you walk into any retail store, someone will gladly
> spend their time to sell you an item worth just a few
> dollars. With the IRS, you are sending them tens of
> thousands of dollars, yet never have any human interaction?!!
>
> Why can't they spend at least an hour to do a "quick audit"?
> Just by asking a few simple questions they could easily
> determine if something fishy is going on or not. Then they
> can recommend you for further auditing.

Think of all the additional offices the IRS would have to open
and all the employees they would have to hire if they spent one
hour with each taxpayer.

Also consider the additional burden upon the IRS for the handling
and processing of all the 2848's (Power of Attorney) from people
who don't want to meet with the an IRS Agent.

Dick

[Rick]

<fa...@squashclub.org> wrote in message
news:f668e6f2-0d22-464e...@googlegroups.com...

> If you walk into any retail store, someone will gladly spend their time to
> sell you an item worth just a few dollars. With the IRS, you are sending
> them tens of thousands of dollars, yet never have any human interaction?!!
>
> Why can't they spend at least an hour to do a "quick audit" ? Just by
> asking a few simple questions they could easily determine if something
> fishy is going on or not. Then they can recommend you for further
> auditing.
>
> It just seems so weird to have no human interaction given the incredible
> amount of money you send them!

The manpower to audit every single return like that would be prohibitive.
Given the routine nature of most returns, it makes a lot more economic sense
for computers to evaluate every return and kick out a more manageable number
for human review.

[Pico Rico]

<fa...@squashclub.org> wrote in message
news:f668e6f2-0d22-464e...@googlegroups.com...

> If you walk into any retail store, someone will gladly spend their time to
> sell you an item worth just a few dollars. With the IRS, you are sending
> them tens of thousands of dollars, yet never have any human interaction?!!
>
> Why can't they spend at least an hour to do a "quick audit" ? Just by
> asking a few simple questions they could easily determine if something
> fishy is going on or not. Then they can recommend you for further
> auditing.
>
> It just seems so weird to have no human interaction given the incredible
> amount of money you send them!
>

SHHHH!!!!!!!

[Mark Bole]

On 2013-01-03 12:36, fa...@squashclub.org wrote:
> If you walk into any retail store, someone will gladly spend their time to sell you an item worth just a few dollars. With the IRS, you are sending them tens of thousands of dollars, yet never have any human interaction?!!
>
> Why can't they spend at least an hour to do a "quick audit" ? Just by asking a few simple questions they could easily determine if something fishy is going on or not. Then they can recommend you for further auditing.
>
> It just seems so weird to have no human interaction given the incredible amount of money you send them!
>

Your analogy is highly flawed.

First, it is not correct that "someone will gladly spend their time to
sell you an item worth just a few dollars". Where did you do your
research, the Dollar Store? <ha ha, no offense intended>

Second, many people send far more dollars to their mortgage holder or
pre-tax health care provider every month than they send to the taxman.
Neither the bank nor the health insurance company expects to meet with
you in person for an hour every year just to receive your mortgage or
premium payment. The tax payment is no different, it is just deducted
from your paycheck. <ha ha, no offense intended>

--

Mark Bole, EA
Enrolled Agents - America's Tax Experts
http://markboletax.com

[paulthomascpa]

<fa...@squashclub.org> wrote

> If you walk into any retail store, someone will gladly spend their time to
> sell you an item worth just a few dollars. With the IRS, you are sending
> them tens of thousands of dollars, yet never have any human interaction?!!
>
> Why can't they spend at least an hour to do a "quick audit" ? Just by
> asking a few simple questions they could easily determine if something
> fishy is going on or not. Then they can recommend you for further
> auditing.
>
> It just seems so weird to have no human interaction given the incredible
> amount of money you send them!
>

Just because "service" is in their name "Internal Revenue Service", doesn't
mean they provide service to everyone. Nor does it mean they should or that
people want them to.




--
Paul Thomas, CPA
www.paulthomascpa.com
Watkinsville, Georgia

[Bill Brown]

On Jan 3, 4:28 pm, rdad...@panix.com (Dick Adams) wrote:
> <fa...@squashclub.org> wrote:
> > If you walk into any retail store, someone will gladly
> > spend their time to sell you an item worth just a few
> > dollars. With the IRS, you are sending them tens of
> > thousands of dollars, yet never have any human interaction?!!
>
> > Why can't they spend at least an hour to do a "quick audit"?
> > Just by asking a few simple questions they could easily
> > determine if something fishy is going on or not. Then they
> > can recommend you for further auditing.
>
> Think of all the additional offices the IRS would have to open
> and all the employees they would have to hire if they spent one
> hour with each taxpayer.
>
> Also consider the additional burden upon the IRS for the handling
> and processing of all the 2848's (Power of Attorney) from people
> who don't want to meet with the an IRS Agent.
>
> Dick
>

In 2009, over 104,000,000 individual tax returns were filed. At an
hour each and 2,000 person-hours per year, that would require 52,000
new employees (208,000 temps during filing season). Payroll and
benefits would exceed $2.6 billion per year.

[Barry Margolin]

In article
<29f442ad-ff80-4912...@z8g2000yqo.googlegroups.com>,

Bill Brown <w.p.br...@gmail.com> wrote:

> In 2009, over 104,000,000 individual tax returns were filed. At an
> hour each and 2,000 person-hours per year, that would require 52,000
> new employees (208,000 temps during filing season). Payroll and
> benefits would exceed $2.6 billion per year.

So tax cheats could justify their behavior as "job creators". :)

--
Barry Margolin
Arlington, MA

[Stuart A. Bronstein]

Barry Margolin <bar...@alum.mit.edu> wrote:
> Bill Brown <w.p.br...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> In 2009, over 104,000,000 individual tax returns were filed. At
>> an hour each and 2,000 person-hours per year, that would
>> require 52,000 new employees (208,000 temps during filing
>> season). Payroll and benefits would exceed $2.6 billion per
>> year.
>
> So tax cheats could justify their behavior as "job creators". :)

Well, that would make less than half a percent difference in the
employment rate, so not a huge deal from that standpoint.

___
Stu
http://DownToEarthLawyer.com

[Kurt Ullman]

In article
<29f442ad-ff80-4912...@z8g2000yqo.googlegroups.com>,
Bill Brown <w.p.br...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Jan 3, 4:28�pm, rdad...@panix.com (Dick Adams) wrote:
> > <fa...@squashclub.org> wrote:
> > > If you walk into any retail store, someone will gladly
> > > spend their time to sell you an item worth just a few
> > > dollars. With the IRS, you are sending them tens of
> > > thousands of dollars, yet never have any human interaction?!!
> >
> > > Why can't they spend at least an hour to do a "quick audit"?
> > > Just by asking a few simple questions they could easily
> > > determine if something fishy is going on or not. Then they
> > > can recommend you for further auditing.
> >
> > Think of all the additional offices the IRS would have to open
> > and all the employees they would have to hire if they spent one
> > hour with each taxpayer.
> >
> > Also consider the additional burden upon the IRS for the handling
> > and processing of all the 2848's (Power of Attorney) from people
> > who don't want to meet with the an IRS Agent.
> >
> > Dick
> >
> In 2009, over 104,000,000 individual tax returns were filed. At an
> hour each and 2,000 person-hours per year, that would require 52,000
> new employees (208,000 temps during filing season). Payroll and
> benefits would exceed $2.6 billion per year.

Don't they essentially do a quick audit on pretty much every return
anyway by computer matching forms they got from others with what your
forms say?Or am I overstating the case?
--
America is at that awkward stage. It's too late
to work within the system, but too early to shoot
the bastards."-- Claire Wolfe

[Pico Rico]

"Stuart A. Bronstein" <spam...@lexregia.com> wrote in message
news:XnsA13E54284D0Bsp...@130.133.4.11...

> Barry Margolin <bar...@alum.mit.edu> wrote:
>> Bill Brown <w.p.br...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> In 2009, over 104,000,000 individual tax returns were filed. At
>>> an hour each and 2,000 person-hours per year, that would
>>> require 52,000 new employees (208,000 temps during filing
>>> season). Payroll and benefits would exceed $2.6 billion per
>>> year.
>>
>> So tax cheats could justify their behavior as "job creators". :)
>
> Well, that would make less than half a percent difference in the
> employment rate, so not a huge deal from that standpoint.
>

The gov't is actually paying a lot of people to NOT audit returns.

[Arthur Kamlet]

In article <HOedneAMsaO0aHvN...@earthlink.com>,

Not for quite a while.


When someone submits a 1040 in February, the W-2s and 1099s are
not likley to be avaialble to IRS databases until August at best.


However, and driven by a rapidly growing idenity theft problem,
they are coming up with only partly effective initial screening
techniques.
--

ArtKamlet at a o l dot c o m Columbus OH K2PZH

[Stuart A. Bronstein]

"Pico Rico" <Pico...@nonospam.com> wrote:
> "Stuart A. Bronstein" <spam...@lexregia.com> wrote

>> Barry Margolin <bar...@alum.mit.edu> wrote:
>>> Bill Brown <w.p.br...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In 2009, over 104,000,000 individual tax returns were filed. At
>>>> an hour each and 2,000 person-hours per year, that would
>>>> require 52,000 new employees (208,000 temps during filing
>>>> season). Payroll and benefits would exceed $2.6 billion per
>>>> year.
>>>
>>> So tax cheats could justify their behavior as "job creators". :)
>>
>> Well, that would make less than half a percent difference in the
>> employment rate, so not a huge deal from that standpoint.
>
> The gov't is actually paying a lot of people to NOT audit returns.

I'm trying to figure out how to get them to pay me for not growing
tomatoes.

___
Stu
http://DownToEarthLawyer.com

[Kurt Ullman]

In article <kc74p9$6il$1...@reader1.panix.com>,
kam...@panix.com (Arthur Kamlet) wrote:
\

> Not for quite a while.
>

Interesting. The last two years I have gotten notices asking What The
Heck Happened Here. The first was when Schwab decided to list bonds that
had come due a different way that the IRS apparently did not recognize
and the other when I had a couple of DRIP stocks I sold with "various"
as the time I bought them while Schwab on the report form treated each
one separately. The number of shares sold and the basis was exactly the
same, but the computer, and then a person decided to ask me more. In
both cases, it was easily explained.
K

--
America is at that awkward stage. It's too late
to work within the system, but too early to shoot
the bastards."-- Claire Wolfe

[Mark Bole]

On 2013/01/04 09:50, Arthur Kamlet wrote:

>> Don't they essentially do a quick audit on pretty much every return
>> anyway by computer matching forms they got from others with what your
>> forms say?Or am I overstating the case?
>
>
> Not for quite a while.
>
>
> When someone submits a 1040 in February, the W-2s and 1099s are
> not likley to be avaialble to IRS databases until August at best.

That doesn't mean they don't do computer audits, just that they are
after-the-fact. (that is, after refunds are issued).

Further, while annual dollar amounts might not be audited in real-time
(yet), they do match on employer ID's, taxpayer ID's, (duplicate)
dependent ID's etc. That is something, at least.

Obviously the mandate to efile almost all returns is critical to even
the most basic timely computer auditing.

--

Mark Bole, EA
Enrolled Agents - America's Tax Experts
http://markboletax.com

[D.F. Manno]

In article <XnsA13E6C9FE206As...@130.133.4.11>,

"Stuart A. Bronstein" <spam...@lexregia.com> wrote:

> I'm trying to figure out how to get them to pay me for not growing
> tomatoes.

Well, there's your problem - you're not growing the wrong crop. You have
to not grow corn, wheat, cotton or soybean to get subsidies.
--
D.F. Manno
dfm...@mail.com

[Faraz H]

Computers can't evaluate a person's honesty. Like I said if you buy a pair of shoes someone will spend as much time as you need to help you. But the IRS wants no human interaction despite you sending them tens of thousands of dollars a year! Am I the only person who finds that incredibly odd?

Basically it is an honor type system. But since so few people are audited, most people underpay their taxes. Also tax laws are beyond the understanding of a reasonable person. Sure you can hire a CPA, but why would you pay someone to tell you how much you have to pay? See the irony there.

That's why I think the IRS needs to do some human auditing of most everyone's returns. Paying taxes is as old as the hills. I am not sure how we evolved to this faceless way of paying taxes.

[Stuart O. Bronstein]

Faraz H <fa...@squashclub.org> wrote:

> Computers can't evaluate a person's honesty. Like I said if you
> buy a pair of shoes someone will spend as much time as you need to
> help you. But the IRS wants no human interaction despite you
> sending them tens of thousands of dollars a year! Am I the only
> person who finds that incredibly odd?
>
> Basically it is an honor type system. But since so few people are
> audited, most people underpay their taxes. Also tax laws are
> beyond the understanding of a reasonable person. Sure you can hire
> a CPA, but why would you pay someone to tell you how much you have
> to pay? See the irony there.
>
> That's why I think the IRS needs to do some human auditing of most
> everyone's returns. Paying taxes is as old as the hills. I am not
> sure how we evolved to this faceless way of paying taxes.

The IRS used to (for a while at least) be much more consumer friendly.
But Congress recently cut the IRS budget, so that it's much more
difficult for them to do their jobs. Just because the IRS takes in
money doesn't mean they get to use it.

--
Stu
http://DownToEarthLawyer.com

[VinnyB]

On Wed, 17 Jan 2018 11:50:20 EST, Faraz H <fa...@squashclub.org> wrote
in <4c2dfc7e-30b7-4ea4...@googlegroups.com>

>Basically it is an honor type system. But since so few people are audited, most
>people underpay their taxes.

I don't believe that's true; at least not intentionally. I think most
people do the best they can with a complex tax code and honestly pay
what they calculate they owe.

[Barry Margolin]

In article <f668e6f2-0d22-464e...@googlegroups.com>,

fa...@squashclub.org wrote:

> If you walk into any retail store, someone will gladly spend their time to
> sell you an item worth just a few dollars. With the IRS, you are sending them
> tens of thousands of dollars, yet never have any human interaction?!!

A business has an incentive to make your experience pleasurable, as it
encourages you to give them more business in the future.

The IRS doesn't need to encourage you to pay your taxes by being
helpful, since you're required by law to pay your taxes.

>
> Why can't they spend at least an hour to do a "quick audit" ? Just by asking
> a few simple questions they could easily determine if something fishy is
> going on or not. Then they can recommend you for further auditing.

Most people don't want to be audited, why are you encouraging it? It's
often interpreted as accusing them of dishonesty.

BTW, 99% of the time when I go into a store I don't need the assistance
of a salesperson. If I want help I'll ask for it. Usually it's just
"Which aisle is the detergent in?"

--
Barry Margolin
Arlington, MA

[Faraz H]

On Wednesday, January 17, 2018 at 12:57:15 PM UTC-5, Barry Margolin wrote:

> The IRS doesn't need to encourage you to pay your taxes by being
> helpful, since you're required by law to pay your taxes.

We're required by law to obey the speed limit. How many people actually do? So, what makes you think people are going to be so honest about paying their taxes?

[Taxed and Spent]

On 1/17/2018 10:51 AM, Faraz H wrote:
> On Wednesday, January 17, 2018 at 12:57:15 PM UTC-5, Barry Margolin wrote:
>
>> The IRS doesn't need to encourage you to pay your taxes by being
>> helpful, since you're required by law to pay your taxes.
>
> We're required by law to obey the speed limit. How many people actually do? So, what makes you think people are going to be so honest about paying their taxes?
>

We don't assign a police officer to each driver, either.

========================================= MODERATOR'S COMMENT:
It might be time to close this conversation.

[Frustrated]

On Wednesday, January 17, 2018 at 12:57:15 PM UTC-5, VinnyB wrote:
> On Wed, 17 Jan 2018 11:50:20 EST, Faraz H <fa...@squashclub.org> wrote

> >Basically it is an honor type system. But since so few people are audited, most
> >people underpay their taxes.
>
> I don't believe that's true; at least not intentionally. I think most
> people do the best they can with a complex tax code and honestly pay
> what they calculate they owe.
>

I have had two accountants urge me to cheat on my taxes because it would be foolish not to. The second actually did it despite my telling him not to because he routinely does it for everyone, and I had to file an amended return to make it right

I think a cursory audit would bring in a great deal more than it costs. Admittedly even more benefit would come from an understandable tax code, but that obviously is never going to happen.

I don't know where you are from, but your sample might not be representative.

========================================= MODERATOR'S COMMENT:
OK Let's close this topic.