new forum

[jo]

Any news on where we will be posting after the first of the year?

[Linda H]

At 12/2/201005:02 AM, you wrote:

Any news on where we will be posting after the first of the year?

Several of us have volunteered to work on transferring threads and photos to a Yahoo list, but it is really up to Pat to make the decision.

Linda H

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Check out 'A is for Airedale,' the 2010 Airedale Rescue
Quilt at http://www.airedalequilt.org. Maybe this is your
year to take it home :-).

[LH]

If I'm not mistaken, Pat already said "go". We should just go to
Yahoo.

Lisa

[Linda H]

At 12/3/201012:15 PM, you wrote:

If I'm not mistaken, Pat already said "go".  We should just go to Yahoo.

Sorry, I missed that. Who should be responsible for setting up the list?

And please start identifying threads taht need to be saved.

[Pat Muller]

Hi All

It is 4:30 PM and Pat has been teaching class and a private since 9:30
am. So she just finally got a chance to eat breakfast and look at the
computer. By all means PLEASE don't wait for Pat to decide anything.

Just keep in mind that Pat is not good when it comes to tech-no stuff,
in other words, anything except writing e-mails....so please be kind.

Pat

[Ken Korn]

I thought Google Groups was going away.....and now I log in to find the "New Google Groups". I wonder what's going on??

Ken

[Linda H]

At 12/11/201003:21 PM, you wrote:

I thought Google Groups was going away.....and now I log in to find the "New Google Groups". I wonder what's going on??

They didn't say they were going away, just that they would not continue to support some of the functions they have now.  One, we are disappointed in losing those functions and two, we speculated that it is the beginning of the end.

[Holly Tulin]

Who exactly is working on the new forum?  I’ve seen emails from Linda H and Bonnie, who said they’d help, but is anyone actually working on making it happen?

 

If you’re working on it, please fess up.  I’ll be happy to help set up the new forum, but at this point I wonder whether everyone thinks “SOMEBODY” is working on it.

 

Stuff (files and pictures) will disappear from GoogleGroups in January (date not yet announced).  If we don’t move it, we’re likely to lose it!

 

Holly

 

---

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Manners In Minutes Dog Training: Using the Q-collar" group.
To post to this group, send email to mim-dog-training-...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to mim-dog-training-using-...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/mim-dog-training-using-the-q-collar?hl=en.

[Anita]

> Stuff (files and pictures) will disappear from GoogleGroups in January (date
> not yet announced).  If we don't move it, we're likely to lose it!
>

Holly,

Stuff isn't going to disappear (if I'm reading correctly). We
won't be able to add to the files and pictures, but they still will be
there. So the migration issue isn't as time-dependent as it might be.
No, I'm not offering to help with this as I've got too much on my
plate, but thought this might reduce the sense of panic.

Anita

[Holly Tulin]

Unfortunately Anita, that's not the case.  If you read the blog from GoogleGroups, it states explicitly that files and pages will no longer be accessible some time in February.  That's a change from their original statement about the stuff disappearing during January, but the end result is the same.

 

Here's the statement from Google (See this URL:  http://groups-announcements.blogspot.com/2010/09/notice-about-pages-and-files.html?hl=en)

"Starting in January 2011, Groups will no longer allow the creation or editing of files and pages; the content will only be available for viewing, and only existing files will be able to be downloaded. If you would like to keep the content currently on the pages and files sections of your group, we highly encourage you to export and migrate it to another product. In February 2011, we will turn off the pages and files features, and you will no longer be able to access that content. "

 

So sad as it is, my earlier statement about moving it or losing it was correct.  It’s a moving target as to when, exactly, the changes go into effect, so earlier is probably better.

 

Holly

[Pat Muller]

Hi all

If any of you know me or have been to my site, you know that I do not
have a clue about almost everything associated with a computer except
email. The rest of it is nothing short of irritating if you ask me.

Unfortunately, the rest of the world seems to not only know about
computers, they actually like them. I have been waiting patiently for
the rest of you to get over the novelty of it all and come back to a
simpler time. It does not seem to be happening so I have decided to
make some changes.

These will not be changes in my feelings about this stupid machine,
but will instead be someone who is REALLY good at what he loves making
those changes for me. He showed me some styles. I chose the one I
liked and I sent him a check. He gave me some assignments and now it
is up to me to get busy.

This is going to be a beautiful site. He has assured me that all I
will have to do to make changes is to be able to type, download
pictures and videos from U-tube. It sounds simple and he has assured
me that he can "walk me through it" if I have any problems. Some of
the assignments make me cringe...facebook, U-tube and all that kind of
stuff that I have said I do not want to do. Guess what, I am doing it
now.

The nice thing is that there is room for numerous categories. You
can click on a catagory and then you have the option of blogging on
that subject. I am thinking this may be a good place to meet. I am
not sure if that will be enough but when I looked at it, I liked what
I saw.

The other thing he wants me to put on there are U-tube testimonials
about the training. Ok you guys, this is where you come in. Then
when you get your assignment completed, I am gonna need a lot of help
with mine. I am totally lost when it comes to this stuff.

I will have more info as it comes along.

Later

Pat

[Holly Tulin]

So, are you going to let go of the discussion forum format entirely and only
have a website with a blog?

Or is your web designer going to build some kind of discussion forum into
the new website?

They're sort of two different critters--a website's blog can wander all over
the place as to topics, but that freedom makes it very hard to track down a
question/answer thread like we have on the current Google Groups.

And normally, you have to go visit the website from a browser (like Internet
Explorer or Mozilla Firefox) to see what's on the blogs. A discussion forum
like GoogleGroups or Yahoo Groups can be set up to send the discussions
directly to your email account with the topic of the discussion shows up in
the subject line, or as a digest of all the discussion traffic from each day
condensed into one email.

All those computer tech-y 20-year old folks live in a TOTALLY different
world, that's connected 24/7 to some kind of electronic web-connected
device.

I'm really not trying to be difficult here, Pat--I'd just like to understand
how its supposed to work, and how it will be different from the current
forum.

I work for a nonprofit group that's in the process of getting a fancy new
website, which they're all convinced is automatically going to do ALL the
stuff they've been paying me to do for them for years, without any attention
from anybody. I hope it does, but am not making any bets. <VBG>

Holly

[Pat Muller]

Holly

You are really asking the wrong person. You tell me the questions to
ask and I will ask. I do believe this new site is designed to enable
people to comment on articles I write but I do not understand how or
if the two would tie together.

If there is another forum that we could link to my new site, that sure
would be fine with me or however you techie minds decide to do
things.

Pat

[Ken Korn]

Just another thought:

In an earlier posting, I had suggested setting up our own forum on the
Quansa website using vBulletin software. It would require a sufficient
amount of storage space (? Gigabytes) on the webserver hosting the
Quansa site, and purchasing a license for vBulletin, and then
installing the software and setting up our forum. Once the forum was
up and running, each of us would have to register (like we have with
Google) so we could read, post, etc.

Perhaps you could consider asking your new "webmaster" about this
possibility. I think the main advantage of this would be total control
of our forum....not having to depend on any other provider like Google
or Yahoo. But it would require someone to "manage" things over the
long haul.

Ken

[Holly Tulin]

Ken, I'm no expert in vBulletin, but looking it up on the web this morning
indicates that the software package costs $285 and the Forum license is
$195.

The business model for this type of software product means that the software
is typically upgraded regularly (often more than once a year). The company
soon stops supporting the old version, as a way to force you to purchase the
new one. That means you can't reasonably look at the initial purchase
price/license fee of the software as a one-time expense.

And you're right--someone has to manage the forum. That's not likely to be
a job that can e handled by a volunteer type person.

My biggest concerns in all of this are these:

Web development people think anybody can manage a site or forum, just
because they can. They live and breathe this stuff and assume everyone else
does too. When the majority of the audience is "of a certain age" like many
(most?) of us are, that's not a good assumption.

Pat has neither the time nor the inclincation to do that website management
job (let alone managing the forum part if there is one on the website).
Therefore it won't get done unless some techie gets paid to do it on an
ongoing basis--an expense Pat hasn't had in the past.

I'm not familiar with how a vBulletin forum works, but if forum members
can't receive the forum discussions in their own email inboxes (in a way
that's very similar to what we do now), we're likely to lose a lot of folks
and make a bunch more really sad. Promoting the website and forum so people
find it as a resource is also a bit more complicated that being listed as a
Google or Yahoo Group about dog training.

I'm really not trying to rain on the parade--I've just had enough and varied
experience with how web developers promise the moon, and then deliver an
open pit coal mine in China, to know that a healthy dose of skepticism and a
zillion questions are good ideas.

Holly

[Sara Peterka]

I enjoy being able to connect by way of an email list with you guys.

What if we could move over to Yahoo (or if there is another similar?) to keep up with each other and provide assistance to people with questions.

The important conversations or those with real "meat" could somehow be transferred to Pat's new site in some sort of blog or ?

Photos can be shared on Yahoo, but if there are any that are pertinent to Quansa, they could be copied to Pat's new site?

I know it's probably not a permanent plan, but it seems the web is ever growing and ever changing. Maybe by the time we need to leave Yahoo (due to unforseen changes), there will be a better option.

Really what needs to happen is someone just needs to make the call and the assignment of duties delegated. Pat, I know you're not "techie" and just want this problem to go away, but it really is your call. Say the magic words and it will happen.

Sara

[LH]

I think some good ideas were presented here... Pat's website and blog
(resources) are separate from a Yahoo discussion group. Both exist
simultaneously, because the formats and usage are different.

How is that for "simple"? Because that is what I am when it comes to
this stuff!

Lisa

[Linda H]

At 12/12/201003:21 PM, you wrote:

If you�re working on it, please fess up.  I�ll be happy to help set up the new forum, but at this point I wonder whether everyone thinks �SOMEBODY� is working on it.

Holly,

You made some excellent points about vBulletin. I think it would be a good idea to stay away from it and similar packages. Pat has given her blessing to go ahead with a migration to Yahoo. Why don't you go ahead and set up the Yahoo list. Bonnie and I can help transferring the photos and important threads. When Pat's new site is up she can put a link to the Yahoo site.

My preference would be for a shorter list name and/or a short subject line tag, which makes it easier to identify list emails and threads in an inbox. Add information about Pat, Manners in Minutes training, Quansa, the Q collar, and Circle of Change in the list description. That will help anyone searching for the list.

I will save some of the threads, but I need people to identify the good ones. Don't ask for all of them - it will be quite a bit of work. But the ones that include particularly good stories and good training advise are important.

[Ken Korn]

Holly,

Your points are well taken.

My read of the website is that there are two "flavors" of this
product.....one costs $285, and the other $195. Also, "minor" updates
are free. I'm on several forums that use vBulletin and they have been
running the same major version for years.

I do agree that the management is not trivial, but I suspect that once
the forum is set up, it shouldn't require much managing.....I could be
wrong. Perhaps the web person Pat is working with can provide some
guidance on this. Obviously, using a free type forum like Google or
Yahoo has minor management required, but we'll always be at the mercy
of the service provider, with respect to changes in
functionality....like Google is now doing.

Getting discussions via email is available with vBulletin. There is an
email option to be notified via email of new postings to what is
called "subscribed thread".....i.e. individual subjects that a person
is interested in following. The email is sent "instantly", daily, or
weekly, and contains the text content of new postings, and links to
each new posting as well as links to included pictures, etc. It looks
different from the Google and Yahoo emails....and I think each thread
comes in a separate email.

Quansa has been on Suite101, Delphiforums, Smartgroups, GoogleGroups,
and there may have been another I can't remember. Every time we have
to move, it's a pain. I just thought maybe having our own forum would
add stability.

Promoting could be more complicated. New members would have to
register, just like with Google or Yahoo....with accounts being
approved by a "moderator", or being open to the public. The forum
would be tied to the Quansa website. I suppose it could also be linked
to Facebook, but I suspect that there are a lot of folks who are not
interested in being on Facebook (that includes me....I'm a computer
guy but still an old fuddyduddy).

Whatever is decided, I'll still be here :-)

Ken

[Linda H]

At 12/13/201011:42 AM, you wrote:

Getting discussions via email is available with vBulletin. There is an
email option to be notified via email of new postings to what is
called "subscribed thread".....i.e. individual subjects that a person
is interested in following.

Is there an option to subscribe to the whole forum or do you have to subscribe to each thread individually? Can you reply to a thread by email or do you need to log on to reply. I know some people prefer bulletin board type discussions and others prefer email lists. Both have pros and cons. Personally I prefer lists and though there are a few forums I check occasionally, I find it too much of a bother to be consistent.

Quansa has been on Suite101, Delphiforums, Smartgroups, GoogleGroups, and there may have been another I can't remember. Every time we have to move, it's a pain. I just thought maybe having our own forum would add stability.

Yahoo groups has been the most popular and most used free web-based email list provider pretty much since such things existed. Of course nothing is forever, but I think Yahoo will be here for quite awhile. One thing we can do is to save good threads as we go along and put them in files on Pat's website.

[Anita]

I agree that using Yahoo makes the most sense. Some possible issues
with using Pat's new site are:
Will it be up and running by the time we need to migrate the files and
pages the beginning of February (sorry I missed that date last
night!)?
Will there be enough disc space available for all the discussions on
whatever host site Pat is using? I know the cost of disc space has
gone way down, but that doesn't mean cost isn't a consideration.
Yahoo seems to be willing to let their groups have lots and lots of
space for old threads.
If we keep this forum separate it's something Pat doesn't have to
hassle with as far as management goes, which I'm sure would be her
preference.

I'm a member of a couple of other Yahoo groups and they seem to work
well.

Anita

[Pat Muller]

Hi

Pat is having enough trouble doing what Pat has to do. Please do not
ask Pat to monitor anything. We tried that and about all I could do
was delete things. Remember the resizing of photos? If it hadn't
been for Linda, it would not have gotten done.

What works best for me is to put whatever on my computer, install a
shortcut on my desktop and write down the instructions. In that way,
if I don't lose them I do pretty good.

Oh, besides that you have to make sure I have your phone number so I
can call you when I have a problem....and I usually do.

Right Anita?

Pat

[Dennis & Lynette]

I vote to let Linda do it, she just offered

Lynette

[Linda H]

At 12/13/201004:22 PM, you wrote:

I vote to let Linda do it, she just offered
Lynette

----- Original Message -----

From: Linda H

To: mim-dog-training-...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Monday, December 13, 2010 4:12 PM

Subject: RE: new forum--HELP

At 12/12/201003:21 PM, you wrote:

If you�re working on it, please fess up.  I�ll be happy to help set up the new forum, but at this point I wonder whether everyone thinks �SOMEBODY� is working on it.

It was Holly who offered to set up the forum (I think she was referring to the yahoo group) and I suggested she go ahead and do it.

Linda

[Holly Tulin]

Actually Lynette, Linda offered to pull the good stuff down off the website to save it, but she “volunteered” me to set up the Yahoo Group.

 

And I’ll do it!  It’s not going to be instant, but I can get going on it over the next few days.

 

Linda and Bonnie—we probably need to take the dirty little details off the forum until the kinks get worked out.  This group would always rather talk about DOGS than computer stuff anyway J

 

Holly

 

---

From: mim-dog-training-...@googlegroups.com [mailto:mim-dog-training-...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Dennis & Lynette

Sent: Monday, December 13, 2010 5:23 PM
To: mim-dog-training-...@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: new forum--HELP

[Linda H]

At 12/13/201004:40 PM, you wrote:

but she �volunteered� me to set up the Yahoo Group.

Sorry Holly. I thought you volunteered and I just took you up on it,

Linda

[Holly Tulin]

A\I did, and you did, and we did.  So it all comes out right in the long-run!

 

Holly

 

---

--

[bonefinder]

I see no reasonable alternative to simply starting a Yahoogroup. It is
cheap, easy and there are so many folks who are already familiar with
yahoo that it is about as "user friendly" as anything can be.
I am on a couple of bulletin boards but I have to go to the bulletin
board directly to get messages. When i get busy, I don't go very
often.
I am KNEE DEEP in alligators for the next two weeks or so and have no
free time to do anything, totally unrelated to the darned holidays. I
have some free time mid January til mid February. Happy to continue
being a moderator. Bonnie

[LMcCain]

On Dec 13, 9:06 pm, "Holly Tulin" <redr...@aol.com> wrote:
> A\I did, and you did, and we did.  So it all comes out right in the
> long-run!
>
> Holly
>
>   _____  
>

> From: mim-dog-training-...@googlegroups.com
> [mailto:mim-dog-training-...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of
> Linda H
> Sent: Monday, December 13, 2010 9:17 PM
> To: mim-dog-training-...@googlegroups.com
> Subject: RE: new forum--HELP
>
> At 12/13/201004:40 PM, you wrote:
>
> but she "volunteered" me to set up the Yahoo Group.
>
> Sorry Holly. I thought you volunteered and I just took you up on it,
>
> Linda
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> Check out 'A is for Airedale,' the 2010 Airedale Rescue

> Quilt athttp://www.airedalequilt.org<http://www.airedalequilt.org/> .

[LMcCain]

I have final exams this week, but then I'll be off school until Jan.
6th. I'll be at Pat's for a few days during that time. If you need
some help between Dec. 21 and Jan. 6th, I can help. I have set up
yahoogroups before for my camp and it worked fine. I also have a
program called CTools that I use that has unlimited storage space -
but that will only be valid for as long as I work at UM. We are
allowed to host our own personal forums, etc. and it has lots of
features - but it would be harder for people to find - so I think
Yahoogroups is the way to go.

As far as threads go, if someone can save the threads/photos on my
puppy litters, I would appreciate it. I can take those threads and
move them to my website so I don't lose the history of the pups. It
means a lot to some of the puppy buyers and to me as a breeder.

Lynn

On Dec 13, 9:06 pm, "Holly Tulin" <redr...@aol.com> wrote:

> A\I did, and you did, and we did.  So it all comes out right in the
> long-run!
>
> Holly
>
>   _____  
>

> From: mim-dog-training-...@googlegroups.com
> [mailto:mim-dog-training-...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of
> Linda H
> Sent: Monday, December 13, 2010 9:17 PM
> To: mim-dog-training-...@googlegroups.com
> Subject: RE: new forum--HELP
>
> At 12/13/201004:40 PM, you wrote:
>
> but she "volunteered" me to set up the Yahoo Group.
>
> Sorry Holly. I thought you volunteered and I just took you up on it,
>
> Linda
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> Check out 'A is for Airedale,' the 2010 Airedale Rescue

> Quilt athttp://www.airedalequilt.org<http://www.airedalequilt.org/> .

[Linda H]

At 12/14/201005:10 AM, you wrote:

As far as threads go, if someone can save the threads/photos on my
puppy litters, I would appreciate it.  I can take those threads and
move them to my website so I don't lose the history of the pups.  It
means a lot to some of the puppy buyers and to me as a breeder.

I will save threads but I need people to identify them, preferably with a link to the thread or with some way for me to identify it (at least the date and subject line and who sent the originating message). There is so much on the website that I can't spend a lot of time searching for a specific thread. Let's limit it to threads with significant content that will be helpful to people or good stories. (Lynn, this isn't a comment on the threads you requested at you - I haven't seen them so I don't know what they contain).

Thanks,
Linda

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Check out 'A is for Airedale,' the 2010 Airedale Rescue

Quilt at http://www.airedalequilt.org. Maybe this is your

[Linda H]

At 12/13/201006:06 PM, you wrote:

I did, and you did, and we did.  So it all comes out right in the long-run!

LOL!

[Ken Korn]

Linda,

I just did a search for the word "Emma". On the first page of results
are the main threads of Emma's training with Pat and continuing
training after we brought her back to Texas. There's other threads on
Puppies and Smudge's Adventures that are interesting.

Ken

> Quilt athttp://www.airedalequilt.org. Maybe this is your

[Linda H]

I just did a search for the word "Emma". On the first page of results
are the main threads of Emma's training with Pat and continuing
training after we brought her back to Texas. There's other threads on
Puppies and Smudge's Adventures that are interesting.

It's on my list :-). But in the future, for anyone who wants to recommend a thread, once you find it, or any post in the thread, cut and paste the URL from your browser window. That will make it even easier for me.

Thanks,
Linda

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Check out 'A is for Airedale,' the 2010 Airedale Rescue

Quilt at http://www.airedalequilt.org. Maybe this is your

[Ken Korn]

I just briefly went through the list of threads....over 1000 of them.
Seems like if you look at threads that have 50 or more replies, they
are the more important threads. And there are not that many of them.

I don't see a way to save or copy an entire thread. What method are
you using to do this? It looked like copying individual replies was
the only way. Am I missing something?

Ken

On Dec 14, 10:02 pm, Linda H <li...@hobbeton.com> wrote:
> >I just did a search for the word "Emma". On the first page of results
> >are the main threads of Emma's training with Pat and continuing
> >training after we brought her back to Texas. There's other threads on
> >Puppies and Smudge's Adventures that are interesting.
>
> It's on my list :-). But in the future, for anyone who wants to
> recommend a thread, once you find it, or any post in the thread, cut
> and paste the URL from your browser window. That will make it even
> easier for me.
>
> Thanks,
> Linda
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> Check out 'A is for Airedale,' the 2010 Airedale Rescue

> Quilt athttp://www.airedalequilt.org. Maybe this is your

[LH]

I've been thinking about this, saving threads...

I wonder if we should divide up the job by segments of time/year or
something.

I think we would all be pretty good about picking out the important
discussions
and those that are also important with some sentimental or personal
aspect to someone
who posted, don't you think?

But to pick through individually might be disastrous, or at least
inefficient.

I have time over the next few weeks to help out with this.

Lisa

[Linda H]

I don't see a way to save or copy an entire thread. What method are
you using to do this? It looked like copying individual replies was
the only way. Am I missing something?

It's a bit complicated. First of all I am using WordPad to create the file. It strips out the tables GoogleGroups uses to organize the page. When I tried using Word the tables took up a lot of space and, in some cases, spilled over the edge of the page and caused some other problems. WordPad is a stripped down version of Word that comes with Windows. You will find it under Accessories. It saves files in rtf (rich text format) which is readable by just about any word processor.

Twenty-five posts in a thread will be displayed at a time, so if the thread is longer you will need to repeat the following steps on each page until you get them all.

1) Open the thread. Click Expand all to open up all the posts. A lot of time this doesn't show quoted text, which is available if you click on a link. I've looked at a lot of the quoted texts and decided it isn't necessary to open them up when you are viewing the tread all in one piece.

2) Do Ctl A to select the whole page, then Ctl C to copy the page.

3) Go to WordPad and do Ctl V to paste the page into the document.

4) When you have all the posts, save the new file.

The file will include a lot of extraneous verbiage and, being a sort of detail fussy person I really want to clean it up, but I'm not doing that now, since it will take a lot of time. I will do it by opening the file in Word because it has better tools for editing.

I saved the Pray for Lacey! thread and I uploaded it to Googlegroups. It looked like it uploaded successfully but I couldn't open it. I tried converting it to a Word.doc file and uploaded taht but I still wasn't able to open it. If anyone wants to see what the raw file looks like I can send it to you as an attachment.

Linda

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Check out 'A is for Airedale,' the 2010 Airedale Rescue

Quilt at http://www.airedalequilt.org. Maybe this is your

[Holly Tulin]

Linda, I just sent you an invitation to join the new YahooGroup Manners In Minutes Dog Training Forum that’s in its formative stages. 

 

When you accept the invitation, try uploading that file to the YahooGroup site instead of Google and let’s see what happens.

 

I tried copying a thread from the google group and discovered a nightmare of editing was required, even if I used “paste special” unformatted text.

 

Sorry, all you non-techy folks for dragging you through details.  It really is a pain.

 

Holly

 

---

From: mim-dog-training-...@googlegroups.com [mailto:mim-dog-training-...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Linda H

Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2010 9:39 PM
To: mim-dog-training-...@googlegroups.com

--