info
Google Groups no longer supports new Usenet posts or subscriptions. Historical content remains viewable.
Dismiss
archaeology! MIDI keyboard with joystick interface?
6 views
Skip to first unread message
J. P. Gilliver (John)
Oct 24, 2019, 6:56:49 PM10/24/19
to
(I'm using Windows 7, but have included the other two 'groups for
reasons that will become evident!)
I was explaining about MIDI (musical) keyboards to a friend, when I
remembered I had one, that I'd hardly used. I dug it out - it's still in
its box, even with its original plastic bag - 3 octaves, mini size keys.
"evolution MUSIC WIZARD".
However: it has a 15-pin male connector on the end of a lead coming out
of it!
Looking into things, it would appear that that originally connected to
the joystick port on a soundcard.
I've had a look around, and I can't find anything to connect this to
USB. I've found gameport to MIDI - those seem to consist of four
connectors: a male 15 way and a female 15 way, and two five-pin male DIN
plugs (the sort that was originally used for [mostly Philips] audio
equipment in the 1970s, and early PC keyboards). I _think_ these are
just passive cables - no electronics. I've also found USB to MIDI -
these I think _do_ have electronics in them; they mostly also end in two
male DIN plugs (the electronics in a little lump in the cable), but one
or two are a little box with a couple of female DIN sockets.
If I have to go that way, can I talk to it by using one of each of these
- or, does anyone know of a single adapter (that has 15-way female to
USB)?
Looking at the excellent http://www.hardwarebook.info/, it looks as if
MIDI (http://www.hardwarebook.info/MIDI) is just two wires - a current
source and a current sink - plus a shield.
http://www.hardwarebook.info/PC_Gameport_with_MIDI seems to support
that.
And before anyone says - yes, I know I could probably get a second-hand
USB MIDI keyboard for less than the price of the two adapters! But I
like a challenge.
And, whether I get the old keyboard working or buy a new [or
second-hand] one, (a) will I need drivers for a MIDI keyboard, or does
Windows 7 know about such things intrinsically, and (b) any suggestions
for good free MIDI editing/recording software? I rather suspect the
software that's with the keyboard won't work with Windows 7, as it says
I need at least Windows 3.1 (-:
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf
... and how lovely, warm, funny, and just all-round Victoria Woodish she was.
- Richard Osman on Victoria Wood, RT 2017/4/8-14
reasons that will become evident!)
I was explaining about MIDI (musical) keyboards to a friend, when I
remembered I had one, that I'd hardly used. I dug it out - it's still in
its box, even with its original plastic bag - 3 octaves, mini size keys.
"evolution MUSIC WIZARD".
However: it has a 15-pin male connector on the end of a lead coming out
of it!
Looking into things, it would appear that that originally connected to
the joystick port on a soundcard.
I've had a look around, and I can't find anything to connect this to
USB. I've found gameport to MIDI - those seem to consist of four
connectors: a male 15 way and a female 15 way, and two five-pin male DIN
plugs (the sort that was originally used for [mostly Philips] audio
equipment in the 1970s, and early PC keyboards). I _think_ these are
just passive cables - no electronics. I've also found USB to MIDI -
these I think _do_ have electronics in them; they mostly also end in two
male DIN plugs (the electronics in a little lump in the cable), but one
or two are a little box with a couple of female DIN sockets.
If I have to go that way, can I talk to it by using one of each of these
- or, does anyone know of a single adapter (that has 15-way female to
USB)?
Looking at the excellent http://www.hardwarebook.info/, it looks as if
MIDI (http://www.hardwarebook.info/MIDI) is just two wires - a current
source and a current sink - plus a shield.
http://www.hardwarebook.info/PC_Gameport_with_MIDI seems to support
that.
And before anyone says - yes, I know I could probably get a second-hand
USB MIDI keyboard for less than the price of the two adapters! But I
like a challenge.
And, whether I get the old keyboard working or buy a new [or
second-hand] one, (a) will I need drivers for a MIDI keyboard, or does
Windows 7 know about such things intrinsically, and (b) any suggestions
for good free MIDI editing/recording software? I rather suspect the
software that's with the keyboard won't work with Windows 7, as it says
I need at least Windows 3.1 (-:
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf
... and how lovely, warm, funny, and just all-round Victoria Woodish she was.
- Richard Osman on Victoria Wood, RT 2017/4/8-14
Paul
Oct 24, 2019, 7:39:24 PM10/24/19
to
drive the 220 ohm resistor). And there is an optoisolator on the Midi-In
side. Implying that perhaps someone is concerned about ground differences
in the equipment, eroding the TTL noise margins if the opto wasn't there.
http://midi.teragonaudio.com/hardware/pc_intfc.htm
In this example, they show a TTL-level serial port running at 31250 bps.
https://www.compuphase.com/electronics/midi_rs232.htm
So a USB to serial port, with the level shifter removed, would
be base materials. You can get USB to TX/RX/GND for wiring up
to smartphones, as an example. The article warns though, that
not all serial ports can be programmed for 31250. Maybe 38400
would be the closest baud rate. They mention some FTDI chip
as being a candidate. You would then search Ebay for a serial
port with TTL levels, based on that FTDI chip. Such an adapter
comes with a cable, with three wires with the ends stripped,
for "soldering to circuits". Typically, people use such adapters
for tapping into the serial port on a router board, or the serial
port on a hard drive controller board (pins on the outside, in
the jumper block, do serial!).
The remaining part then would be, how do you convince a serial
driver, to be adopted as MIDI I/O. Not a clue...
At least you're going to have a hobby... or a research project...
Paul
JT
Oct 24, 2019, 8:43:47 PM10/24/19
to
J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
> (I'm using Windows 7, but have included the other two 'groups for
> reasons that will become evident!)
>
> I was explaining about MIDI (musical) keyboards to a friend, when I
> remembered I had one, that I'd hardly used. I dug it out - it's still
> in its box, even with its original plastic bag - 3 octaves, mini size
> keys. "evolution MUSIC WIZARD".
>
> However: it has a 15-pin male connector on the end of a lead coming
> out of it!
>
> Looking into things, it would appear that that originally connected
> to the joystick port on a soundcard.
>
> I've had a look around, and I can't find anything to connect this to
> USB. I've found gameport to MIDI - those seem to consist of four
> connectors: a male 15 way and a female 15 way, and two five-pin male
> DIN plugs (the sort that was originally used for [mostly Philips]
> audio equipment in the 1970s, and early PC keyboards). I think these
> reasons that will become evident!)
>
> I was explaining about MIDI (musical) keyboards to a friend, when I
> remembered I had one, that I'd hardly used. I dug it out - it's still
> in its box, even with its original plastic bag - 3 octaves, mini size
> keys. "evolution MUSIC WIZARD".
>
> However: it has a 15-pin male connector on the end of a lead coming
> out of it!
>
> Looking into things, it would appear that that originally connected
> to the joystick port on a soundcard.
>
> I've had a look around, and I can't find anything to connect this to
> USB. I've found gameport to MIDI - those seem to consist of four
> connectors: a male 15 way and a female 15 way, and two five-pin male
> DIN plugs (the sort that was originally used for [mostly Philips]
> are just passive cables - no electronics. I've also found USB to MIDI
> - these I think do have electronics in them; they mostly also end in
> two male DIN plugs (the electronics in a little lump in the cable),
> but one or two are a little box with a couple of female DIN sockets.
>
> If I have to go that way, can I talk to it by using one of each of
> these - or, does anyone know of a single adapter (that has 15-way
> female to USB)?
>
> Looking at the excellent http://www.hardwarebook.info/, it looks as
> if MIDI (http://www.hardwarebook.info/MIDI) is just two wires - a
> current source and a current sink - plus a shield.
> http://www.hardwarebook.info/PC_Gameport_with_MIDI seems to support
> that.
>
> And before anyone says - yes, I know I could probably get a
> second-hand USB MIDI keyboard for less than the price of the two
> adapters! But I like a challenge.
>
> And, whether I get the old keyboard working or buy a new [or
> second-hand] one, (a) will I need drivers for a MIDI keyboard, or
> does Windows 7 know about such things intrinsically, and (b) any
> suggestions for good free MIDI editing/recording software? I rather
> suspect the software that's with the keyboard won't work with Windows
> 7, as it says I need at least Windows 3.1 (-:
J.P.,
> but one or two are a little box with a couple of female DIN sockets.
>
> If I have to go that way, can I talk to it by using one of each of
> these - or, does anyone know of a single adapter (that has 15-way
> female to USB)?
>
> Looking at the excellent http://www.hardwarebook.info/, it looks as
> if MIDI (http://www.hardwarebook.info/MIDI) is just two wires - a
> current source and a current sink - plus a shield.
> http://www.hardwarebook.info/PC_Gameport_with_MIDI seems to support
> that.
>
> And before anyone says - yes, I know I could probably get a
> second-hand USB MIDI keyboard for less than the price of the two
> adapters! But I like a challenge.
>
> And, whether I get the old keyboard working or buy a new [or
> second-hand] one, (a) will I need drivers for a MIDI keyboard, or
> does Windows 7 know about such things intrinsically, and (b) any
> suggestions for good free MIDI editing/recording software? I rather
> suspect the software that's with the keyboard won't work with Windows
> 7, as it says I need at least Windows 3.1 (-:
Would this work?
https://www.amazon.com/ECS-Game-Port-USB-Adapter/dp/B00W8HBHMS/ref=sr_1_
3?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIwumwo5a25QIVCINaBR1fUQ6UEAAYASAAEgLCVvD_BwE&hvadid=2
67941478646&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9001907&hvnetw=g&hvpos=1t1&hvqmt=e&hvrand=1
7136028370566942027&hvtargid=kwd-337892880655&hydadcr=19162_9664533&keyw
ords=15+pin+joystick+to+usb+adapter&qid=1571964068&sr=8-3
JT
--
J. P. Gilliver (John)
Oct 24, 2019, 10:33:09 PM10/24/19
to
In message <qotgfv$q0j$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, JT <J...@spam-me-not.invalid>
writes:
worked anyway.)
Thanks, but as there's no mention of MIDI in the listing, I fear that
may be http://www.hardwarebook.info/PC_Gameport rather than
http://www.hardwarebook.info/PC_Gameport_with_MIDI (you'll see pins 12
and 15 are different on the two).
I rather fear I'd need Paul's circuitry. Which may be what's in some of
the boxes I've seen that have DIN sockets, which I'd then use with one
of the passive adapter cables (or make that myself).
in - Eric Idle, quoted in RT 2016/12/10-16
writes:
>J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
>
>> (I'm using Windows 7, but have included the other two 'groups for
>> reasons that will become evident!)
[]
>
>> (I'm using Windows 7, but have included the other two 'groups for
>> reasons that will become evident!)
>> Looking into things, it would appear that that originally connected
>> to the joystick port on a soundcard.
[]
>> to the joystick port on a soundcard.
>> If I have to go that way, can I talk to it by using one of each of
>> these - or, does anyone know of a single adapter (that has 15-way
>> female to USB)?
>>
>> Looking at the excellent http://www.hardwarebook.info/, it looks as
>> if MIDI (http://www.hardwarebook.info/MIDI) is just two wires - a
>> current source and a current sink - plus a shield.
>> http://www.hardwarebook.info/PC_Gameport_with_MIDI seems to support
>> that.
[]
>> these - or, does anyone know of a single adapter (that has 15-way
>> female to USB)?
>>
>> Looking at the excellent http://www.hardwarebook.info/, it looks as
>> if MIDI (http://www.hardwarebook.info/MIDI) is just two wires - a
>> current source and a current sink - plus a shield.
>> http://www.hardwarebook.info/PC_Gameport_with_MIDI seems to support
>> that.
>J.P.,
>
>Would this work?
>
>https://www.amazon.com/ECS-Game-Port-USB-Adapter/dp/B00W8HBHMS/ref=sr_1_
>3?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIwumwo5a25QIVCINaBR1fUQ6UEAAYASAAEgLCVvD_BwE&hvadid=2
>67941478646&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9001907&hvnetw=g&hvpos=1t1&hvqmt=e&hvrand=1
>7136028370566942027&hvtargid=kwd-337892880655&hydadcr=19162_9664533&keyw
>ords=15+pin+joystick+to+usb+adapter&qid=1571964068&sr=8-3
>
>JT
>
(Only the first line was highlighted as a link in my newsreader, but it
>
>Would this work?
>
>https://www.amazon.com/ECS-Game-Port-USB-Adapter/dp/B00W8HBHMS/ref=sr_1_
>3?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIwumwo5a25QIVCINaBR1fUQ6UEAAYASAAEgLCVvD_BwE&hvadid=2
>67941478646&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9001907&hvnetw=g&hvpos=1t1&hvqmt=e&hvrand=1
>7136028370566942027&hvtargid=kwd-337892880655&hydadcr=19162_9664533&keyw
>ords=15+pin+joystick+to+usb+adapter&qid=1571964068&sr=8-3
>
>JT
>
worked anyway.)
Thanks, but as there's no mention of MIDI in the listing, I fear that
may be http://www.hardwarebook.info/PC_Gameport rather than
http://www.hardwarebook.info/PC_Gameport_with_MIDI (you'll see pins 12
and 15 are different on the two).
I rather fear I'd need Paul's circuitry. Which may be what's in some of
the boxes I've seen that have DIN sockets, which I'd then use with one
of the passive adapter cables (or make that myself).
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf
I don't like that word [atheist]; it implies that there's a god not to believe
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf
in - Eric Idle, quoted in RT 2016/12/10-16
Roger Mills
Oct 26, 2019, 3:11:59 PM10/26/19
to
sockets, and that the cable which you have has two DIN plugs at one end
and and a 15-pin D connector at the other end?
If so, throw that cable away and get one of these:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/USB-MIDI-Cable-DigitalLife-Out/dp/B07TNFDH5L/ref=asc_df_B07TNFDH5L/?tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=375410469487&hvpos=1o2&hvnetw=g&hvrand=3721761605041043990&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=1007064&hvtargid=pla-794854502288&psc=1&tag=&ref=&adgrpid=76811915917&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvadid=375410469487&hvpos=1o2&hvnetw=g&hvrand=3721761605041043990&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=1007064&hvtargid=pla-794854502288
It's Plug-n-Play and will load the necessary drivers automatically when
you plug it in.
You then just need some MIDI sequencing software. I'm still using an old
version of Cakewalk Express which was certainly written for an earlier
version of Windows - but works perfectly happily on W7 (32-bit or
64-bit) [So it must be a 32-bit rather than 16-bit application, probably
dating from W95 or 98, but not W3.1]
If you send me a PM, I can probably fix you up with a copy.
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.
Paul
Oct 26, 2019, 3:24:27 PM10/26/19
to
https://usb.org/sites/default/files/midi10.pdf
Which makes it easier for an in-box driver to work with
such an adapter. On something like Win98 of course,
YMMV, as there wouldn't be the wealth of Class drivers
at that point, that there are today.
Paul
Roger Mills
Oct 26, 2019, 4:03:18 PM10/26/19
to
the one I cited, but which do the same job). I bought the first one in
Win XP times - and that came with a CD with the necessary drivers on it
(AND some MIDI sequencing software). The more recent ones have been
Plug-n-Play, and haven't needed external drivers.
Roger Mills
Oct 26, 2019, 4:14:30 PM10/26/19
to
this wouldn't work - it's certainly worth a punt!
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/USB-To-MIDI-Interface-Converter-Cable-Adapter-Music-Keyboard-Piano-To-PC-Laptop/372710966766?epid=1542423275&hash=item56c74e05ee:g:7osAAOSwmSNdKIlI
J. P. Gilliver (John)
Oct 26, 2019, 7:27:35 PM10/26/19
to
In message <h1jnp4...@mid.individual.net>, Roger Mills
[]
>>> Roger Mills wrote:
[]
cable (i. e. comes out of the keyboard), with the 15-pin D connector on
the end of it. It does say on the box that it is definitely MIDI.
[]
suspiciously similar.)
I have also found ones with _female_ DIN sockets on (like this
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/STEINBERG-MIDI-TO-USB-COMPUTER-CONVERTER-IN-OUT-THRU-PORT/283651120473?hash=item420aec9d59:g:ioAAAOSwy~JdrwJr
alias t.ly/d5l3z), and also gameport-to-(male)DIN cables.
[]
>>> Roger Mills wrote:
[]
>>>> I assume that the keyboard itself has the usual two 5-pin 180 degree
>>>> DIN sockets, and that the cable which you have has two DIN plugs at
>>>> one end and and a 15-pin D connector at the other end?
No. The _only_ connection to the outside world it has is a _captive_
>>>> DIN sockets, and that the cable which you have has two DIN plugs at
>>>> one end and and a 15-pin D connector at the other end?
cable (i. e. comes out of the keyboard), with the 15-pin D connector on
the end of it. It does say on the box that it is definitely MIDI.
[]
>> Indeed. I've got about 3 of these USB to MIDI adapters (not identical to
>> the one I cited, but which do the same job). I bought the first one in
>> Win XP times - and that came with a CD with the necessary drivers on it
>> (AND some MIDI sequencing software). The more recent ones have been
>> Plug-n-Play, and haven't needed external drivers.
>
>
>Here's an even cheaper one than the one I first cited. No reason why
>this wouldn't work - it's certainly worth a punt!
>
>https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/USB-To-MIDI-Interface-Converter-Cable-Adapter
>-Music-Keyboard-Piano-To-PC-Laptop/372710966766?epid=1542423275&hash=ite
>m56c74e05ee:g:7osAAOSwmSNdKIlI
There are literally hundreds of those on ebay! (Though they all look
>> the one I cited, but which do the same job). I bought the first one in
>> Win XP times - and that came with a CD with the necessary drivers on it
>> (AND some MIDI sequencing software). The more recent ones have been
>> Plug-n-Play, and haven't needed external drivers.
>
>
>Here's an even cheaper one than the one I first cited. No reason why
>this wouldn't work - it's certainly worth a punt!
>
>https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/USB-To-MIDI-Interface-Converter-Cable-Adapter
>-Music-Keyboard-Piano-To-PC-Laptop/372710966766?epid=1542423275&hash=ite
>m56c74e05ee:g:7osAAOSwmSNdKIlI
suspiciously similar.)
I have also found ones with _female_ DIN sockets on (like this
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/STEINBERG-MIDI-TO-USB-COMPUTER-CONVERTER-IN-OUT-THRU-PORT/283651120473?hash=item420aec9d59:g:ioAAAOSwy~JdrwJr
alias t.ly/d5l3z), and also gameport-to-(male)DIN cables.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf
Only dirty people need wash
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf
J. P. Gilliver (John)
Oct 26, 2019, 7:33:33 PM10/26/19
to
In message <h1jk3t...@mid.individual.net>, Roger Mills
<watt....@gmail.com> writes:
[]
<watt....@gmail.com> writes:
[]
>You then just need some MIDI sequencing software. I'm still using an
>old version of Cakewalk Express which was certainly written for an
>earlier version of Windows - but works perfectly happily on W7 (32-bit
>or 64-bit) [So it must be a 32-bit rather than 16-bit application,
>probably dating from W95 or 98, but not W3.1]
>
>If you send me a PM, I can probably fix you up with a copy.
...
>old version of Cakewalk Express which was certainly written for an
>earlier version of Windows - but works perfectly happily on W7 (32-bit
>or 64-bit) [So it must be a 32-bit rather than 16-bit application,
>probably dating from W95 or 98, but not W3.1]
>
>If you send me a PM, I can probably fix you up with a copy.
>Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.
I've sent an email - hope that counts as a PM (-:
checked.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf
Roger Mills
Oct 27, 2019, 7:09:57 AM10/27/19
to
On 27/10/2019 00:32, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
> In message <h1jk3t...@mid.individual.net>, Roger Mills
> <watt....@gmail.com> writes:
> []
>> You then just need some MIDI sequencing software. I'm still using an
>> old version of Cakewalk Express which was certainly written for an
>> earlier version of Windows - but works perfectly happily on W7 (32-bit
>> or 64-bit) [So it must be a 32-bit rather than 16-bit application,
>> probably dating from W95 or 98, but not W3.1]
>>
>> If you send me a PM, I can probably fix you up with a copy.
> ...
> >Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
> checked.
> I've sent an email - hope that counts as a PM (-:
I've replied to your email - but I did that *before* I saw your previous
> In message <h1jk3t...@mid.individual.net>, Roger Mills
> <watt....@gmail.com> writes:
> []
>> You then just need some MIDI sequencing software. I'm still using an
>> old version of Cakewalk Express which was certainly written for an
>> earlier version of Windows - but works perfectly happily on W7 (32-bit
>> or 64-bit) [So it must be a 32-bit rather than 16-bit application,
>> probably dating from W95 or 98, but not W3.1]
>>
>> If you send me a PM, I can probably fix you up with a copy.
> ...
> >Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
> checked.
> I've sent an email - hope that counts as a PM (-:
post about the captive cable, so some of it may not apply!
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
0 new messages