Audie Murphy and John Wayne ... of Fact and Fiction.
zookumar
of admiration. I rebuked him for it, of course. Anwyays, later on, I
went to Google and typed in "John Wayne Audie Murphy" (without the
quotes). Found the following URL.
Great read.
"http://www.bluecorncomics.com/jwayne.htm"
Audie Murphy was a real man, and a broken hero because of it.
John Wayne was every bit the phony that Hollywood created, and he
lived a fixed life for it (IMO, fully deserving contempt for porting
his acting fame and "acting ideology" into realworld politics). How
many Americans recognize John Wayne as a genuine American hero and how
many, Audie Murphy? Even more importantly, how did John Wayne view
himself? How did Audie Murphy view himself? Interesting questions
and answers, to be sure.
In the interests of balance, the following URL locates
character assassinating commentary by a rightwing quill (Stephen M.
Kocis, III) against an author (Gary Wills) who dared to expose John
Wayne ("the man and his ideas").
"http://www4.allencol.edu/~smk0/ftr/ftr-061797.html"
Kocis, THE THIRD ... and don't yooz fergits it!
-zookumar-
Tracy Yucikas
yes, an excellent read (the first one) ... and the one by "Zocis III" was
strangely illuminaating in its own way.
quite a contrast those two.
thanks for the sites
ty
"zookumar" <zook...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:BtDP9.231673$C8.6...@nnrp1.uunet.ca...
zookumar
>zook,
>yes, an excellent read (the first one) ... and the one by "Zocis III" was
>strangely illuminaating in its own way.
>quite a contrast those two.
>thanks for the sites
No probs. Don't get me wrong. I like watching John Wayne in
the movies. He is a great actor. His movies are simple but effective
moral plays depicting good versus evil and right versus wrong. My
problems with John Wayne arise with complex reality. In reality, the
USA is not always the good force and the "enemy of the day" is not
always the evil force. Whereas John Wayne is always "American" and
always "good" in the movies.
To wit, great actors belong on the dramatic stage and in
depictions of moral themes, and away from complex real world politics
and blind (eg. simplistic) implementations of themes.
-zookumar-
Prigator
>Though I knew that John Wayne was
>what he was- no sweat. I never understood how people confused his
>screen persona with the real thing, but I always liked Wayne's
>performances.
Well said. You are right - er...excuse me... correct. John Wayne was an
accomplished actor who found a niche in Hollywood and followed through with it.
Why would anyone bother to "expose" an obvious screen persona? Who cares?
Audie Murphy tried the Hollywood route but was not a good enough actor to
unseat John Wayne as the screen hero. That does not make Wayne a bad person in
person and is a bogus excuse to attack him. I hope Murphy got paid well for
the few movies he did make. He deserved some good breaks.
Doug Chandler
PSmith9626
But great theater arises Exactly from moral complexity and unclear choice:
Consider
Antigone.
best
penny
> To wit, great actors belong on the dramatic stage and in
>depictions of moral themes, and away from complex real world politics
Hollywood is not great theater, hollywood is pandering drivel to the mentally (
and morally ) retarded.
On rare occasions they rise above their station.
Henry Chang
Thanks for the link, zook.
After the movie "Saving Private Ryan" came out, The History Channel had a
round table with a couple of guys from Omaha Beach. They were old, proud,
bitter and passionate. They gave the movie an "A" for realism. Then one of
them launched into a tirade to the effect of:
"war isn't glamorous like those John Wayne movies. War is pain and blood
and hell and it robs you of your dignity . . . "
and on and on.
Even though the violence in "Saving Private Ryan" was appalling, I remember
thinking "this is great" during that opening sequence because someone was
finally portraying war and death as it really is: painful and horrible.
Then those Omaha Beach History Channel Vets confirmed it for me. Thanks to
them for going through their hell and sharing with the rest of us and
thanks to Steven Spielberg for showing what it was like and not
trivializing their experience.
Henry
John Wayne anti-fan
Steven L.
>Murphy was the real deal. A real life killing machine war hero, who
>was just a really poor skinny kid from Texas who made mincemeat of the
>enemy.
>
Interestingly, to me, anyway, reading this while watching 'To Hell and Back' on
AMC a 1955 movie starring Murphy, about Murphy. When I saw this movie as a
child I didn't understand the ' he is playing him' , in the movie, I kinda
thought he was not old enough for the part, that was over ten years after he
did the real thing.
Steven L.
John Gilmer
>
> Interestingly, to me, anyway, reading this while watching 'To Hell and
Back' on
> AMC a 1955 movie starring Murphy, about Murphy. When I saw this movie as
a
> child I didn't understand the ' he is playing him' , in the movie, I kinda
> thought he was not old enough for the part, that was over ten years after
he
> did the real thing.
Yep! Sometimes (or often) the "real" story of true military heros is more
impressive that a "realistic" (c.f.: Rambo) war film can describe.
There was a film about Sgt. York made between the wars. Basically, York
(with VERY little help from his friends) captured a German Machine Gun BN.
His real life exploit exceeded the film version.
I suspect that the TRUE STORES of the WWII heros have not been made into
films because no one would believe that one man could do so much!
Steven L.
>Yep! Sometimes (or often) the "real" story of true military heros is more
>impressive that a "realistic" (c.f.: Rambo) war film can describe.
>
>There was a film about Sgt. York made between the wars. Basically, York
>(with VERY little help from his friends) captured a German Machine Gun BN.
>His real life exploit exceeded the film version.
>
>I suspect that the TRUE STORES of the WWII heros have not been made into
>films because no one would believe that one man could do so much!
>
would spend the money it spent on Green Barets, for instance, research and
re-make some instead of some of the other stuff they do-over and over
Steven L..
John Gilmer
> >
> Yes, I have seen Sgt. York, quite a few times. It would be nice if
'hollywood'
> would spend the money it spent on Green Barets, for instance, research and
> re-make some instead of some of the other stuff they do-over and over
Green Barets wasn't so bad (except for the Sunset Scene). One criticism I
recall was some clown claiming that towers weren't used to defend bases.
Actually, they were.
Feek O'Hanrahan
> On 3 Jan 2003 12:42:18 -0600, "John Gilmer" <gil...@crosslink.net>
> wrote:
>
>> There was a film about Sgt. York made between the wars. Basically,
>> York (with VERY little help from his friends) captured a German
>> Machine Gun BN. His real life exploit exceeded the film version.
>
>
> That's exactly what it showed him doing - maybe you don't know the
> extent of York's exploits.
>
> "In the French village of Chatel-Cherhery stands a memorial that
> describes the exploits of one of America's World War I soldiers.
> "Armed with a rifle and pistol," the monument reads, "...he silenced a
> German battalion of 35 machine guns, killed 25 enemy soldiers and
> captured 132."
>
> His friends were being butchered by those machine guns. York was able
> to perform a one man flanking operation and pour extremely accurate
> fire, enfilading the German position. Indeed, the Germans thought they
> had been flanked by a large unit, but it was just York.
Not to be nitpicky (or pedantic :), but how does one perform a one man
flanking? Sounds supernatural. :)
--
"This is my father's favorite medical text book. Read it long enough
and it will show you the error of your ways" - Charity Trask, "Dark
Shadows"
Prigator
>That's exactly what it showed him doing - maybe you don't know the
>extent of York's exploits.
>His friends were being butchered by those machine guns. York was able
>to perform a one man flanking operation and pour extremely accurate
>fire, enfilading the German position. Indeed, the Germans thought they
>had been flanked by a large unit,
>but it was just York.
Exactly right. York was one in a million. At the point when the Germans
finally figured out where the shots were coming from, they sent a small squad
in a bayonet charge against York's position. York used the 1911 pistol,
because it was faster than the bolt-action rifle, and deliberately shot them
down one by one as they came at him. He shot the rearmost one first, and
worked his way up to the one leading the charge, figuring that if he shot the
leader first the others would take cover. The leader was almost at arm's
length when York got to him. That kind of cool thinking is remarkable.
Until that day, York had been declaring himself to be a conscientious objector,
protesting against being drafted and shipped overseas because "the bible is
agin killin." When he saw his company being slaughtered he made the big
decision to do something about it.
Doug Chandler
Vince
<snip>
>
> Not to be nitpicky (or pedantic :), but how does one perform a one man
> flanking? Sounds supernatural. :)
>
*VERY* carefully? Seriously, by having the enemy unsure of where you are
and how many you are. And balls.
In the spirit of MTM being reborn (or at least rehosted), I will rise in
rare agreement with Dave: Murphy and York (and many, many others) were
true and inspirational soldiers, warriors, and heros in the finest sense
of the word.
--
Polymorphism -- It's what you make of it.
Jerry Hollombe
> Yup, all I can add is this- where do we get such men when the chips
> are down?
We have them -- quite a few, in fact. Most don't become the subject of
movies, or even get any recognition for their heroism, but they exist.
Jerry Hollombe, Webmaster
http://thegarret.info/
http://glaam.us.mensa.org/