The insanity of Java advanced licensing and java mission control

[Kevin Burton]

Has anyone actually gotten a price quote from Oracle for using Java Mission Control in production?

Continuous profiling has a huge advantage but not at this pricing:

http://www.infoq.com/news/2013/10/misson-control-flight-recorder

> which are priced according to the Oracle Price List for 5k / 15k USD per processor for production systems.

.. so on a 16 core system it would cost $80k for Java Mission Control?

That can't be right as that seems rather insane.

If one were to use jprofiler or perfino in production I think the pricing would be from 500-1k... 

I mean the GOOD part of this , is that if the pricing is THAT much I wouldn't expect it would be too long until we had a solid Open Source continuous profiler!  Hopefully Twitter eventually open sources their profiler..

I don't mind paying for tools if the pricing is reasonable.  But at that price I can build it myself! :-P

[Jason Koch]

This would be about what I expect from Oracle based on other pricing. Their price list is online: http://www.oracle.com/us/corporate/pricing/technology-price-list-070617.pdf .

You will also find that there can be significant room for negotiation, especially if you are bundling. Of course, your mileage may vary, but you should definitely ask :).

Another thing to be careful when planning is their licensing requirements around VMs as they definitely offer incentives to use the Oracle VM platform instead of vmware etc.

Note - I don't work for Oracle.

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[Kirk Pepperdine]

Wow, we need to change our pricing model at jClarity… we are 120 bucks for that same 16 core system….

— Kirk

[Jan van Oort]

There is no entry on their ( ridiculous, BTW  ) price list for this stuff. There are entries, per processor, for Java SE, indeed in the  $5k / processor range. 

Gut feeling: no one will ever pay for this. 

Fortuna audaces adiuvat - hos solos ? 

[Kirk Pepperdine]

gut feeling? Unfortunately, people are paying for this… ;-)

— kirk

[Ben Evans]

I don't know of anyone who is giving ORCL $$$ for Mission Control.

I do know of some people who are using it in non-PROD, and some people who are (rather unwisely, IMO) using it in PROD, despite ORCL's policy of waiving the fees "for now".

OTOH, I have several clients who explicitly outlaw it, for fear that dev teams would use it in non-PROD & it would scope creep & end up being a big bill for PROD.

Ben

[William Pietri]

On 05/31/2015 04:37 PM, Kevin Burton wrote:

Has anyone actually gotten a price quote from Oracle for using Java Mission Control in production?

[...]

.. so on a 16 core system it would cost $80k for Java Mission Control?

That can't be right as that seems rather insane.

Long ago in the dark days of 1998, Phillip Greenspun wrote:

"The basic pricing strategy of database management system vendors is to hang the user up by his heels, see how much money falls out, take it all and then ask for another $50,000 for 'support'. Ideally, they'd like to know how much your data are worth and how much profit you expect from making them available and then extract all of that profit from you. In this respect, they behave like the classical price-discriminating profit-maximizing monopoly from Microeconomics 101."

So I'm less amazed by Oracle's prices than that they keep finding ways to run their same scams.

William

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William Pietri | http://williampietri.com/ | http://twitter.com/williampietri

[Daniel Mitterdorfer]

Hi Jay,

Mission control is not a separte product but part of the Oracle Java SE Advanced & Suite Products as far as I understand (http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javaseproducts/overview/index.html). So you need to look for "Java SE Advanced" and "Java SE Suite" in the price list.

Bye

Daniel

P.S.: I also don't work for Oracle. That's just how I understood the licensing scheme around Mission Control.

2015-06-01 16:32 GMT+02:00 Jay Askren <jay.a...@gmail.com>:

Looking through the current price list, I don't actually see Mission Control.  Am I missing something?  

Jay

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[Richard Warburton]

Hi,

There is no entry on their ( ridiculous, BTW  ) price list for this stuff. There are entries, per processor, for Java SE, indeed in the  $5k / processor range. 

Gut feeling: no one will ever pay for this.

I have no idea about how many licenses Oracle sell, but its worth bearing in mind a couple of things.

 * This isn't a license for Mission Control - its a Java SE support contract. It'll come with a lot of other bells and whistles.

 * If software in this price range ever comes with a list price then its usually set significantly higher than what people actually pay. The list price is set deliberately high to make the lives of two groups of people easier. One of those groups is the sales team at Oracle. They can look like they're offering the customer a big discount by cutting down from an artificially high list price. The other group is the technology procurement departments at large firms. These guys justify their existence by negotiating savings in software licensing. If you're looking to buy licensing for $80,000 and they can get it cut down to $40,000 then can claim to have saved $40,000.

So people probably aren't paying $5,000/core for a profiler, but a lot of companies will pay a heavily discounted price for a combination of their CIO being able to tick the "we've got Java support" box and a bunch of other things.

I've seen this PDF before, and the thing that surprises me isn't the price of Java SE - it's that there is a price list at all.

regards,

  Richard Warburton

  http://insightfullogic.com

  @RichardWarburto