Expanded discussion on Not too quiet or clean work space

[Peter Menningen]

OK so i'm thinking again the space for the major tools should be controlled but it should not be so restrictive as to make access for novices unobtainable. 

Here is an Idea  create a plan based on the trades principal a Novice/ apprentice must be with a vetted member/ journeyman or Master. a Journeyman may work by himself/herself on tools with training. A Master does the training and permission granting.

I know this is old school but it has worked since at least the middle ages.  It works because you as a novice or a parent trusts the master to train right and guide the student. The student gains knowledge by watching and practicing under the guidance of a Journeyman or master building good work habits and skills.

My first training in electronics was when a Kitchen Radio or TV could Kill you if you didn't know what not to touch. 

If I'm putting a tool in the space I want to be sure it does no harm to a person because of non-training but I do feel it should be used by those who don't have access to tools otherwise regardless of age if there guided or trained 

I'll talk story about an incident of a teacher and a student who were doing a job with a deadline and had a conflict live one day.

[Jerry Isdale]

The Guild (apprentice/journeyman/master) approach is quite valid for Maker type activities. 

It seems to be making a comeback in the ‘informal’ education world. (citation needed)

Note that many makerspaces refer to themselves as Maker Guilds… Fairfield County Makers Guild, Makers Local #256, etc.

A part of getting Our Space will be planning it out.  Putting the Dangerous Tools in a separate area is a pattern I’ve seen at a number of spaces.  There is a ‘front room’ that is used for meetings and basic classes… often it has basic tool benches for electronics, crafting, 3d printing and the like.  Then there is the Lab or Shop Rooms where the heavier tools and benches are located.

A multi-room space with preexisting divisions has been under consideration by the board (and prior incarnations) for Maui Makers.

The Guild Pattern will need to develop a ‘curriculum’ (better name?) and some Proof of Skills (project completed with all fingers attached).   A pattern for each tech?

Jerry Isdale
i.e. Id Est LLC
isd...@gmail.com
808.573.7606
Haiku, HI

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[Ross Mukai]

I never liked the word guild because to me, the idea connotes more of a cartel than a shared space. The original definition of a guild was a group who controlled the trade secrets/knowledge of a craft and limited the number of its practitioners. 

Separate rooms will be a necessity. It is otherwise impossible to separate loud and dirty workshop space from clean and quiet space. I've killed a number of computers by dust and ran a number of hot, loud arduino sessions in the old space. 

[Pete Menningen]

Jerry I do not deem any tool as dangerous except fuels & explosives. Just like firearms it is the operator that makes it safe or unsafe. With proper training any of the above can be used within limits by anybody. It always comes "to the grey matter between the ears" and knowing your own personal limitations and asking for help if the task requires it

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[Pete Menningen]

Let's think guild/union as a method and not as a limiting group. It would be more of a Trade School of the past

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[Jerry Isdale]

Dangerous tools are those that can cause serious bodily injury or death.  A skilled ninja can make a weapon of anything, and so can a complete idiot… but for the general population non-powered tools, many powered hand tools, soldering irons etc are only minor injury sources.

Getting the right habits between the ears can be tricky.  Fortunately most people learn not to touch the front end of a soldering iron after the first time (or two).

Jerry Isdale
i.e. Id Est LLC
isd...@gmail.com
808.573.7606
Haiku, HI

[Lynn Rasmussen]

Jerry, have maker spaces developed an insurance package and almost standardized safety rules/guidelines? The Maker Faire people have it all worked out. 

[Laura Ulibarri]

Lynn,

We've been working on the advice from Artisans Asylum and Oahu Makerspace.

Insurance tends to be more of a local issue, and we are in discussions with an agent.

http://artisansasylum.com/how-to-make-a-makerspace/

[Lynn Rasmussen]

Thanks for all the great work, Laura. The skatepark at Paia Youth and Cultural Center used to have local insurance for the skatepark but is
now able to get it through the skatepark organization. Same with my husband's fireworks. He's now able to get insurance through
his pyrotechnic organization.
I seem to be continually associated with guys who love risky stuff!

[Laura Ulibarri]

Yeah, the Maker Movement is still working towards recognition, and Make and Artisans Asylum are leading the way. We will see what they come up with.

I was on the board of a whitewater kayaking club, and we kept getting dropped (despite 40+ yrs safe track record) until American Canoe Association stepped up and set up a national insurance plan.

We're working with National Association of Rocketry on our insurance for rocketry.

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[Peter Menningen]

I think that comes with the territory  I was in destructive product testing  I have some nice mementos to show when I do get my container.

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Peter Menningen

[Laura Ulibarri]

I should show you my husband's shotgun. He shot the shotgun (not the shot) at a rabbit when he was growing up. He's lucky.

[Jerry Isdale]

Unfortunately, insurance is very location dependent, regulated by state.

There are some things developing, but I haven’t seen any shared policy stuff yet.

Some groups like The School Factory offer it for some mainland areas.

MakerMedia does it for their own events (Faires), but all the mini-faires get introductions at best, from what I recall.

Jerry Isdale
i.e. Id Est LLC
isd...@gmail.com
808.573.7606
Haiku, HI

[Jerry Isdale]

Laura,

  You might find the Space Federation/School Factory make-a-space kit useful. From what I’ve seen the Asylum piece focuses on Large Spaces.  Guy tends to think any space below 10,000 sqft is unusable.  Meanwhile most makerspaces operate quite well in the 1000-5,000sqft range.

   https://atrium.schoolfactory.org/spacekit/home

Jerry

[Laura Ulibarri]

Thanks Jerry, I've looked at School Factory stuff.

The Artisans Asylum has been spot on so far in working with the insurance companies.

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