Design and construct the forge (metal working ) area Invite ti help

[Peter Menningen]

With the air supply almost complete  we will be starting a Metal working Group  soon.

Here is what we need    What evening is the best for a bi weekly  formal get together   (please respond with a choice)

• Monday
• Wednesday  (First and last Wednesday is already used by Menehunes)
• Friday

The first meeting will be for the gathering of resources and planning on first builds

We have received but not delivered a 125lb anvil, One of our members in building  a Gas fired Propane bottle forge right now. 

We have some materials in the parking lot to construct a bench to hold a large vise and to make a solid wood forge as well as a chunk charcoal retort . This is what we will be designing. (Water Heater tanks and H beams )

For construction the space has acquired the loan of a Plasma torch and has welding equipment . 

Here are a few items the area would be nice to have:

• We have some hammers  to use   we also have some more hammer heads that need handles made for them.
  
• A portable shade structure  10' x 10' to cover area in parking lot when working  in the daytime.  
• a small metal garbage can with lid for hot waste and ashes  to cool down. 
• Forge Tongs   (keep an eye for at yard sales) 

[Peter Menningen]

The air supply is operational  and the anvil has arrived along with a leg vise.    We have to meet to plan the entire area.  there is a possibility of acquiring a sheet metal brake and an arbor press.   we have a lot of material in the parking lot to work with.  Volunteers are needed to help with construction of the pieces to make it a first class forge.

[Wayne Axelson]

I will be at the space tomorrow and would love to discuss this topic.

Wayne

Sent from my iPhone

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[Peter Menningen]

Wayne my plan is to bring in regular members to have a say in what we build and then let them build it. That is part of the "FUN" everyone needs. The planning meeting will be either on a Monday or Friday evening I want Members to chime in on it. Two board members combined just spent over $700 to get this area up and running. Other paid members put in a lot of effort over the last three weeks.

That being said if you want to come in early and discuss I can do that. I have my student Mentee in tomorrow so I'm not available for general conservsations during the regular day

[Ross Mukai]

The wood fired forge is the best thing ever! Free heat. We roughly copied the V design of the whitlox wood fire forge just from looking at the pictures. It was made out of a steel shelf welded together to make the V, a fence pipe for the air holes, fire bricks from amazon, and a dryer hose taped over the end of a fan for the air supply. We tried regular bricks, the cement cracks and falls apart fast. Rumor is that tile could work as a pretend firebrick. It burns any solid wood great! It goes through about 2-3 5 gal buckets of scraps in about an hour. You can turn the fan on and off to save heat but it smokes without the fan running. Performance compared to the propane forges is actually better, just that propane is more convenient. The wood forge burns surprisingly hot once it's going and it can heat a file to austenitic in noticeably less time than the propane forges. No advantage to charcoal over wood, they burn exactly the same at that high heat. Dino coal would be a huge step up, but i don't have a source for it. I'm not 100% sure but forced air burning pallet wood seems a little sketchy at those high temps, we got a lot of strange color flame from pallets. I don't think it's from being treated, I would guess it's from being spilled on or whatever it picks up from a warehouse floor. It's probably fine with good ventilation. Another good thing is all the nails just collect at the bottom. Most wood burns so hot it leaves almost no smoke or ash. What was disappointing was we have so much plywood scrap, but the plywood curls up into little flying fireballs when it burns and they fly really far so we stopped doing that.

Being short on tongs is not a showstopper. For knife making, a handy way to do it is build a heavy duty iron stand on the forge and weld a long piece of rebar onto your stock right at the beginning, do all the forge work, and cut it off with a cutoff wheel after forging or whenever you like even just at the very end after grinding and shaping and polishing. It's better than constantly cooling the clamp, setting and adjusting the lock, etc. it works very well in the wood forge because the waste heat goes up instead of blasting out from the opening

The propane tank lined with kaowool forge works great. The king of random burner with the mig welder tip for a gas jet works great too. A single burner forge with a single opening is perfect. Two burners just consumes more gas. An asphalt or weed burning torch also works great for a forge burner if you come across a freebee

> On Oct 21, 2017, at 7:00 PM, Peter Menningen <pmgr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Wayne my plan is to bring in regular members to have a say in what we build and then let them build it. That is part of the "FUN" everyone needs. The planning meeting will be either on a Monday or Friday evening I want Members to chime in on it. Two board members combined just spent over $700 to get this area up and running. Other paid members put in a lot of effort over the last three weeks.
>
> That being said if you want to come in early and discuss I can do that. I have my student Mentee in tomorrow so I'm not available for general conservsations during the regular day
>

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[Buck Joiner]

I have no knowledge of forging but will be learning.  We have a mountain of coal on Maui left over when the sugar mill closed. I'll be trying to get some of that.

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[Peter Menningen]

Thanks Ross for your insights. One of our members is already constructing a Propane bottle forge for the small stuff. we have a surplus of Large water heater tanks to use as the basis for the solid fuel one. and some I/H beams to make a heavy table.

Like you said our shop generates a lot of scrap wood Mostly softwoods but more hardwoods are in the mix now.

Since time or lack of it is our most valuable resource my plan is to bring in as many members to assist with it as possible. Having a voice in the plan should help with that. Now that we have the loan of a plasma torch to assist with cutting the material to shape it should be laid out and cut in prep for welding.

Our first hurdle is to decide if we want a smallish forge with a pot about the size of a Brake rotor or a long one suitable for blade work. although we may have both at some time it should be member interest that drives the first solid fuel forge.

There is too much work to follow the old "Build it and they will come" this time it needs to be they " Came and we built it together"

As for the coal I have contacted via e-mail to a volunteer partner to see if that is possible. The partner maybe able to give us a current lead for Buck to follow. From the videos i've already seen if we get a serious member we can go through a bucket in a week.

[cole santos]

So I built a forge with you guys. There are several things needed to make it doable. I found that the lack of little accessories made it dangerous. Heat shields, proper tongs, gloves, etc. I would use propane unless you want mpd and mfd at the space. 

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[Ross Mukai]

The brake drum forge is perfect for coal since it burns hot and the flat shape makes it easy to stoke and fish out clinkers. Coal burns nice and hot, it's so hot, you can do everything with a hair dryer or even a regular bellows blower. The pan shape also works for wood, but the V shaped forge is a little better for wood because it gently eases the wood into the hottest part of the fire which is supposed to preheat and gassify as the wood slides down into the hottest part. The pan shaped forges burning plain wood aren't quite as efficient at the preheating step and produce a little bit of smoke.

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[Ross Mukai]

If you have neighbors, fill a spray bottle with teriyaki sauce and shoot it at the fire every so often. Especially when lighting it, that's pretty much the only time it smokes. No one ever complains about a bbq

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[Peter Menningen]

Just for information  The space has had a small electric kiln donated for heat treating it needs a new temp controller   (about $150) with new solid state relay  size inside 8" cubed It is rated at 2000 deg f.   Daniel is making a Propane bottle  Propane fired forge that will have an interior of about 6" dia and  10" long.   These should work well for smaller projects like knives and stuff.  Neither is suitable for placing a crucible of any size in for melting metal for casting other than Jewelery. 

I am aware that having the necessary hand tool accessories and requisite safety equipment is important    Personal protection gear (aprons, long sleeved shirts, safety Glasses, face shields, hearing protection, leather gloves, shoes) in the metal working area is a members responsibility. There may be a shelf or box for some donated common equipment, and lockers are available for rent for a member to store his / her stuff in the building.  Acquiring a set of common tongs, hammers, punches, Hardy tools is important for the usability of the area.  New tongs run between $15 and $100 depending on shape and length and that does not include shipping.  This is beyond the means of Makers. Link text to  Blacksmith tool site   https://www.blacksmithsdepot.com/

Based on Youtube  a pair of tongs can be made in a day or less. Materials that can be used to make tools include old crow bars, rebar, truck springs, broken tools like punches and screwdrivers.

We already have a collection of about 7 hammers and two hardy tools    BTW our hardy hole is 7/8" which is not a common size

All forge activities  except with the electric kiln will be done in the parking lot by the far fence.  This is to control both fumes and dirt from pounding metal.  The electric kiln will be operated either on a metal bench or on a fire/heat proof surface.  All quenching will be done outside 

How soon this activity becomes reality is up to the membership and is based on their active help and input. 

On Monday, October 16, 2017 at 8:28:23 AM UTC-10, Peter Menningen wrote:

[Jerry Isdale]

I like that!  maybe have a kabob handy, in case someone comes to investigate.

Cooking fires are entirely ok, as long as they are properly contained.

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[Peter Menningen]

Hard coal does not make for a good fire to cook over.   We are in an industrial area and the forge will be contained  We are not having bon-fires  Watch the You tube videos  the actual fire is not larger than either a single large gas burner or a Barbecue smoker or pig roaster    This should not be an issue especially if we design it right.   Hence the planing meetings   If nobody wants a solid fuel forge than it won't be built.  

The neighbor issue can be solved by  good communication and  working on a schedule.  If everyone around is informed that we will be doing an activity on a certain day or evening and that we have adequate protection devices and systems in place there will be no complaints.  

I used to do 5 acre ag burns by myself on my farm.  I would inform my neighbors and call both the county FP district and the local town Fire Department that I was going to do the burn and to not answer any calls for fire support unless it came from my phone number.   I would also wait until the conditions were correct. early spring,or all the crops harvested as well as wind speed and direction.  BTW I was taught the correct way by the Nature Conservancy Wildland group in the county.

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[Peter Menningen]

On Monday, October 16, 2017 at 8:28:23 AM UTC-10, Peter Menningen wrote:

> With the air supply almost complete  we will be starting a Metal working Group  soon.
>
>
> Here is what we need    What evening is the best for a bi weekly  formal get together   (please respond with a choice)

> MondayWednesday  (First and last Wednesday is already used by Menehunes)Friday

> The first meeting will be for the gathering of resources and planning on first builds
>
>
> We have received but not delivered a 125lb anvil, One of our members in building  a Gas fired Propane bottle forge right now. 
>
>
> We have some materials in the parking lot to construct a bench to hold a large vise and to make a solid wood forge as well as a chunk charcoal retort . This is what we will be designing. (Water Heater tanks and H beams )
>
>
> For construction the space has acquired the loan of a Plasma torch and has welding equipment . 
>
>
> Here are a few items the area would be nice to have:
>
>
> We have some hammers  to use   we also have some more hammer heads that need handles made for them.
> A portable shade structure  10' x 10' to cover area in parking lot when working  in the daytime.  a small metal garbage can with lid for hot waste and ashes  to cool down. Forge Tongs   (keep an eye for at yard sales) 

Our new post vice is ready for cleaning before painting. It will need a wire brushing and sandblasting. If someone wants to do this task come in on the weekend and we will set them up with the stuff to do it.

[Ross Mukai]

Clean it enough to free up the moving parts but for the most part leave the patina on, it's good for it. Especially on the anvil too.

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[Peter Menningen]

Had to drill out a pivot pin/bolt to get apart to clean up the moving part, We will need to add some stops around the clamp nut to keep it from rotating. I was able to clean the threads by wire brush and chasing with a new nut to remove built up grime and rust.

The vise was laying on the ground when we received it. I'll let group decide on to what extent the restoration goes. Anvil will stay as it is unless we polish and wax the top surface. There is a high humidity in the area as we are on the downslope of the West Maui Mountains. Combined with the ocean unprotected metals corrode fast. The Anvil says it is Vanadium Steel and has a coat of Black paint on it.