First Look preview Artists conception of the new proposed space

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Peter Menningen

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Jun 11, 2016, 10:28:19 PM6/11/16
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Ross Mukai

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Jun 11, 2016, 10:46:11 PM6/11/16
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Looks really good. I suggest putting the dust producing equipment closer together to simplify dust collection and piping. The cnc can make a barrel of dust a day and so can a table saw. I suppose the panel saw might also. Without central dust collection you end up needing duplicates of shop vacs or dust collectors. 

The one exception to this is the chop saw. It gets used so quickly it's better off being on its own auto switch on its own shop vac rather than hooked up to central dust collectors. By the time the dust collector spins up you're already done. 

On Jun 11, 2016, at 16:28, Peter Menningen <pmgr...@gmail.com> wrote:


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Peter Menningen

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Jun 12, 2016, 12:54:00 AM6/12/16
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Russ as always some good insights  Our big CNC  Router has 3HP dedicated commercial dust collector   for the table saws and planers I have a 1-1/2 HP canister on wheels  The pannel saw has its own built in shop vac collector top of that we have about 6 different shop vacs.

This print was a one off from the Fusion 360 file I created to layout the electricity runs. Some of our placement decisions were due to electrical panel loading and cost of putting in the new wiring. there is no branch wiring in the building as it is brand new.  Some items were intentionally left off like tool chests and some furniture items like workbenches

One of our long term members is thinking of loaning the space some very nice tools like a wood lathe, 14" almost new bandsaw, a1 x42 belt disc sander
 the metal forming area will have two wire feed welders an Ox- acetylene set and a micro torch for fine work. it also will have a 14"toothed metal chop saw and angle grinders  the space has two air compressors one for each sidewall 5HP 3 phase and 3 HP 1 phase sandblast and paint to come later

We have duplicates of quite a few of the tools so they can be designated for tasks like recycled wood and furniture grade wood for chop saws and table saws 

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Ross Mukai

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Jun 12, 2016, 2:18:08 AM6/12/16
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Oh definitely design around the electricals! You can move dust collector pipes all day long for much cheaper than copper

I thought I was being excessive when I put in 6 4 outlet 120V boxes each on its own 20A circuit and it turned out that wasn't nearly enough. Now that I need another 3ph line I'm stuck. No more slots :(

3hp dust collector is big! That's what we're upgrading our central dust collection to. Even with a 1.5hp dedicated to the cnc it had a tendency to steal parts right off the table. It seems excessive sometimes to run the dust collector for 11hrs straight. I'm considering just building an enclosure around the machine and sweeping it up after

WOW that is a lot of air! Good stuff you can never have too much! We can just barely run down the 5hp 60gal 1stage going to town with air grinders/sanders but it's plenty for blasting/painting

Peter Menningen

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Jun 12, 2016, 10:27:48 AM6/12/16
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I'm splitting the 4 outlet boxes so that each box pulls from two separate 20 A breakers and then they share along a run a little more copper but better load distribution along a wall.  that way if we get two power hogs on a single box they can pull from separate circuit breakers.  we would do that when work benches in the LAB were right next to each other and had items like ovens and hot plates  benches would saher breakers but  pedistal outlets would not. 

We have 2 200 A 3 Phase 208 Y panels to work with and I'm near breaker capacity already   How is your power utilization working?  Our Panels have 42 breaker slots and the one with the three phase machines is nearly full  it has 3 3 Phase and 4 220 lines

Our CNC table has a 30 HP vacuum pump for its hold down .  The vacuum nozzle is 6" in diameter. our room  lighting is going to be 6 28,500 Lumen Daylight LED High Bay pendants  Average roof  height is 24 ft 


On Saturday, June 11, 2016 at 8:18:08 PM UTC-10, Ross Mukai wrote:
Oh definitely design around the electricals! You can move dust collector pipes all day long for much cheaper than copper

I thought I was being excessive when I put in 6 4 outlet 120V boxes each on its own 20A circuit and it turned out that wasn't nearly enough. Now that I need another 3ph line I'm stuck. No more slots :(

3hp dust collector is big! That's what we're upgrading our central dust collection to. Even with a 1.5hp dedicated to the cnc it had a tendency to steal parts right off the table. It seems excessive sometimes to run the dust collector for 11hrs straight. I'm considering just building an enclosure around the machine and sweeping it up after

WOW that is a lot of air! Good stuff you can never have too much! We can just barely run down the 5hp 60gal 1stage going to town with air grinders/sanders but it's plenty for blasting/painting

On Jun 11, 2016, at 18:53, Peter Menningen <pmgr...@gmail.com> wrote:

Russ as always some good insights  Our big CNC  Router has 3HP dedicated commercial dust collector   for the table saws and planers I have a 1-1/2 HP canister on wheels  The pannel saw has its own built in shop vac collector top of that we have about 6 different shop vacs.

This print was a one off from the Fusion 360 file I created to layout the electricity runs. Some of our placement decisions were due to electrical panel loading and cost of putting in the new wiring. there is no branch wiring in the building as it is brand new.  Some items were intentionally left off like tool chests and some furniture items like workbenches

One of our long term members is thinking of loaning the space some very nice tools like a wood lathe, 14" almost new bandsaw, a1 x42 belt disc sander
 the metal forming area will have two wire feed welders an Ox- acetylene set and a micro torch for fine work. it also will have a 14"toothed metal chop saw and angle grinders  the space has two air compressors one for each sidewall 5HP 3 phase and 3 HP 1 phase sandblast and paint to come later

We have duplicates of quite a few of the tools so they can be designated for tasks like recycled wood and furniture grade wood for chop saws and table saws 
On Sat, Jun 11, 2016 at 4:46 PM, Ross Mukai <ross...@gmail.com> wrote:
Looks really good. I suggest putting the dust producing equipment closer together to simplify dust collection and piping. The cnc can make a barrel of dust a day and so can a table saw. I suppose the panel saw might also. Without central dust collection you end up needing duplicates of shop vacs or dust collectors. 

The one exception to this is the chop saw. It gets used so quickly it's better off being on its own auto switch on its own shop vac rather than hooked up to central dust collectors. By the time the dust collector spins up you're already done. 

On Jun 11, 2016, at 16:28, Peter Menningen <pmgr...@gmail.com> wrote:


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Peter Menningen
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Jerry Isdale

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Jun 12, 2016, 3:05:48 PM6/12/16
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we have several areas that will need dust collection, separated by large other use space… Basically the two far walls.  One area (near side in Pete’s pic) is for the P&L company that owns the flatbed cnc router and holds the lease.  They have a number of related company use machines that are on one set of dust collectors.  The other side (panel saw, etc) is the general MMInc shop where we will have more dust collection.  We have a couple small mobile collectors, but those alas don’t have the micro filtration bags needed for good indoor use.  May have to upgrade.

I’m really excited about this new space.. Finally a big area… and with the really tall ceilings, we can build loft areas for storage or other use… depending on finances and permitting/proper construction.

Jerry Isdale
isd...@gmail.com

Design Global, Build Local.

Opinions herein are mine and may not reflect those of other makers, hackers or humans in general. Please do not destroy Earth because of them.



Peter Menningen

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Jun 12, 2016, 3:31:41 PM6/12/16
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Jerry for the shop vacs, the first thing might be all new filters with HEPA covers we can modify my big rolling one with a Hepa output collector  rather than just a bag final filter we are Makers and do not need to buy if the money is not there.  Also need to mark the ones with HEPA improvements as DRY ONLY  

The filters I'm talking about is the ones Drywall sanders use in commercial spaces after occupancy by tenants about $40 each instead of $15 each 

I don't know how many filters I had ruined at the old work by maintenance personal using our dry vacs  once wet you cannot shake out  the dust. I solved that by designating one as wet and removing the filter which is the recommended way to use them for wet jobs

   BTW at my last count in the combined space we have 2 dust collectors and  5 shop Vacs  The ones in the Metal only work areas do not need to be HEPA Particle size is big. HEPA is required for sanding woods and plastics, routing and wood turning, Good suction on planers, and saws.

Like I've said before this isn't my first rodeo  

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Ross Mukai

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Jun 12, 2016, 10:26:29 PM6/12/16
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I agree. The drywall bags are exactly what you need. Non hepa vacs just shower everything with an even coat of dust. A cyclone like the dustdeputy on a 5gal bucket right before it hits the vac will make the filter bag last 2+ years (i haven't changed it yet). Also you can cut open a home hepa bag and inside out strap it over the filter cage in the shop vac it's way cheaper

Ross Mukai

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Jun 12, 2016, 10:37:10 PM6/12/16
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That is a ton of power! I just wish we had that many breaker slots! We have 100A 208v 3ph service. I have stupid 24 and 16 or 8 slot panels to deal with. I was concerned about the feed size but we tried maxing it out and I could only hit like 80A. My friend's shop has roughly the same feed size and they run 6 CNCs and a waterjet among others. Ovens and welders are the big loads to worry about. 
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Nick

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Jun 13, 2016, 7:07:30 PM6/13/16
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This is looking great! When are you planning the move! I'd love to help set up the multicam if you need a hand. Also, the vacuum pump for the hold down will be LOUD! I'd suggest a vented sound isolated enclosure for it.

Looking forward to helping with this.

Nick

Peter Menningen

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Jun 13, 2016, 10:41:35 PM6/13/16
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Nick I greatly appreciate the offer and I will accept it. I had to take apart the multicam to place it in storage. We are going through the Maui hoops to get  permits for the electrical build out of the space.
But we think that it is under some sort of control.  I'll be transporting machinery this week 

We will be putting out a general call for help very soon We need a new version of the  Accident release form for the space because  MMI is going to Sub Lease their part from P&L Maui. who owns the multicam and its accessories.

Our Lease does not give us the free rein to do stuff that the current location has but  we will have a great Maker shop.Our space will be one of the better ones in the State of Hawaii

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