Fwd: [NEleps] Cassius or Marine Blue - CT

[Joshua Rose]

For those who aren’t on the NE-Leps list, an astounding find just one state to our south!

JSR

Joshua S. Rose, Ph.D.

Amherst, MA

http://bugguide.net/user/view/2399

http://www.facebook.com/opihi

Begin forwarded message:

From: "Peter DeGennaro" 

Subject: [NEleps] Cassius or Marine Blue - CT

Date: August 24, 2016 at 10:52:30 PM EDT

Hi all,

An apparent worn Cassius Blue was photographed last week in a homeowner’s yard in Branford, CT. Most have agreed that it is a Cassius, but it was suggested to be a “pale variant” Marine Blue on BugGuide. A photo and some discussion can be seen here: http://bugguide.net/node/view/1278484/bgimage

For reference, here is a shot showing the other side: https://flic.kr/p/Lf76dE

The pale variant Marine Blue mentioned is shown in Kaufman’s Field Guide to Butterflies of North America (you will need to scroll down a page or two): http://goo.gl/v8kgM2

Any input on the identity of this blue? It is very worn which makes the ID more difficult to determine. Cassius has a more limited history of vagrancy but it does have a number of records north of its core range. And can human transport (such as in a shipment of lima beans) be ruled out? There has been a lot of days with southwest winds in the past month in CT.

Also, while I watched, I noticed it spent nearly all its time flying high in a mimosa (Persian silk) tree. Is this a known foodplant for either species? It’s in the legume family.

Peter DeGennaro

Naugatuck, CT 

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Posted by: Peter DeGennaro <dege...@gmail.com> 

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[Matthew Arey]

Wow!!!

M. Arey

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From: Joshua Rose <op...@mindspring.com>
To: MassLeps <mas...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2016 11:04 PM
Subject: [MassLep] Fwd: [NEleps] Cassius or Marine Blue - CT

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[Joshua Rose]

By "co-author of the Kaufman guide” I’m guessing you mean Jim Brock?

I have reclassified the BugGuide record to Cassius, based on Jim’s and Harry’s testimony. Though I’m still a bit thrown by the photo in the Brock-Kaufman guide of the “pale variant” Marine, which looks like a dead ringer for the CT bug. But since Jim co-authored the book with that photo, I’m guessing he sees something that I haven’t yet. Or knows something about that photo that I don’t...

Cheers,

Josh

Joshua S. Rose, Ph.D.
Amherst, MA
http://bugguide.net/user/view/2399
http://www.facebook.com/opihi

> On Aug 26, 2016, at 11:29 PM, Peter DeGennaro dege...@gmail.com [NEleps] <NEleps-...@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>
> Just an update on the Cassius Blue:
>
> The consensus from numerous experts (including the co-author of the Kaufman guide) is that it is indeed a Cassius as I thought. The BugGuide entry should be moved to Cassius.
>
> The recent southwest winds have been bringing some unexpected stuff up to the Northeast, not just the Cassius Blue. There was a probable sighting in CT and a report in NH of Black Witch. And tonight I photographed in my yard what is apparently CT's first record of Titan Sphinx. There was a recent record in NJ as well.
>
> The Cassius Blue was closely associating with a Persian silk tree (also known as mimosa). Any stands of these trees south of CT should be checked for Cassius Blue, just in case there is a northward movement going on.
>
> Peter DeGennaro
> Naugatuck, CT
>
> On Fri, Aug 26, 2016 at 11:01 PM, Harry Pavulaan <harr...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Not sure how anyone can interpret a typical Cassius Blue as a Marine Blue! The Connecticut one is obvious. By the way, Cassius Blues were well documented as breeding one year in Virginia Beach by Stan Nicolay. So they have been further up the coast than South Carolina.
>
> Harry Pavulaan
>
> Sent from my iPhone

[fsm...@aol.com]

Hi Everyone,

I think my correspondence [also with "a coauthor of the Kaufman Guide"], which took place after my fall trip to the LRGV in 2013 and is pasted below, might be relevant. It's in reverse chronological order and a bit hard to follow, but the bottom line is that a photo will not necessarily separate Marine Blue and pale form Cassius Blue. Both Cassius and Marine fly in the LRGV, so it can be a knotty problem down there, just as it is in a place where neither flies normally and a vagrant turns up. My sense is that, in the CT case, the experts think Peter had a Cassius. I'm not disputing that, merely pointing out that separation of Marine and pale form Cassius cannot be done from any old photo.

I guess that's one of the things that makes butterflying so interesting.

As it happens, as the reports of a Cassius in Connecticut came in, I was busy trying to put IDs on some blues from my recent trip to Tanzania. Much more diversity down there, so it's really hard.

To illustrate, here's Leptotes Jeanneli [Jeannel's Blue], one I just IDed, hopefully correctly.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/fsmodel/29258369855/in/datetaken-public/

Look familiar? It isn't!

Feel free to jump in if you think it's something else.

Cheers,

Frank Model

Laguna Woods, CA

Frank,

 

No didn't mean that. I just could not tell from the pic whether you had cassius or a marine. Marines can get very cassius looking.

 

Jim

 

In a message dated 11/24/2013 5:03:16 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, FSM...@aol.com writes:

Thanks, Jim.

 

You are a man of few words. I wish I could do that!

 

Let me follow up with a question that can be answered in one word. Make that two.

 

[1] Are you saying that in that small part of the country [basically South Texas] where cassius and marine blue fly together, it would not be possible to distinguish between cassius and "pale form" marine from field marks alone?

 

[2] Does that mean that the "pale form" marine blue in the field guide is from some part of the country other than South Texas?

 

If so, I think I'll just give up the ghost.

 

Cheers,

Frank

 

In a message dated 11/24/2013 6:36:17 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, JimJo...@aol.com writes:

Frank,

 

Variability?

 

Jim

 

In a message dated 11/24/2013 11:27:25 A.M. US Mountain Standard Tim, FSM...@aol.com writes:

Hi Jim,

 

Got back from the LRGV last week with some interesting photos, which I am now working over while it freezes outside here in Massachusetts.

 

I had these two sharing the same patch of mistflower at "the Wall" near Bentsen RGVSP on November 11:

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/fsmodel/11032674955/

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/fsmodel/11032825914/

 

The first is obviously a marine blue. Because they were sharing the same patch of mistflower, I have the second one the "pale form" marine blue [cf. p.127 of your Kaufman guide].

 

But then there's this one shot at Frontera Audubon, Weslaco, on November 9:

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/fsmodel/11032823144/

 

I called this one Cassius blue.

 

But now that I look at the photos [including the ones in the Kaufman guide], I see very little difference bewteen "pale form" marine and Cassius. What gives?

 

Thanks,

Frank

-----Original Message-----
From: Peter DeGennaro dege...@gmail.com [NEleps] <NEleps-...@yahoogroups.com>
To: Harry Pavulaan <harr...@hotmail.com>
Cc: neleps <nel...@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Fri, Aug 26, 2016 8:29 pm
Subject: Re: [NEleps] Cassius or Marine Blue - CT

Just an update on the Cassius Blue:

The consensus from numerous experts (including the co-author of the Kaufman guide) is that it is indeed a Cassius as I thought. The BugGuide entry should be moved to Cassius.

The recent southwest winds have been bringing some unexpected stuff up to the Northeast, not just the Cassius Blue. There was a probable sighting in CT and a report in NH of Black Witch. And tonight I photographed in my yard what is apparently CT's first record of Titan Sphinx. There was a recent record in NJ as well.

The Cassius Blue was closely associating with a Persian silk tree (also known as mimosa). Any stands of these trees south of CT should be checked for Cassius Blue, just in case there is a northward movement going on.

Peter DeGennaro

Naugatuck, CT

On Fri, Aug 26, 2016 at 11:01 PM, Harry Pavulaan <harr...@hotmail.com> wrote:

Not sure how anyone can interpret a typical Cassius Blue as a Marine Blue!  The Connecticut one is obvious.  By the way, Cassius Blues were well documented as breeding one year in Virginia Beach by Stan Nicolay.  So they have been further up the coast than South Carolina.

Harry Pavulaan

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 24, 2016, at 10:53 PM, Peter DeGennaro dege...@gmail.com [NEleps] <NEleps-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Hi all,

An apparent worn Cassius Blue was photographed last week in a homeowner’s yard in Branford, CT. Most have agreed that it is a Cassius, but it was suggested to be a “pale variant” Marine Blue on BugGuide. A photo and some discussion can be seen here: http://bugguide.net/node/view/1278484/bgimage

For reference, here is a shot showing the other side: https://flic.kr/p/Lf76dE

The pale variant Marine Blue mentioned is shown in Kaufman’s Field Guide to Butterflies of North America (you will need to scroll down a page or two): http://goo.gl/v8kgM2

Any input on the identity of this blue? It is very worn which makes the ID more difficult to determine. Cassius has a more limited history of vagrancy but it does have a number of records north of its core range. And can human transport (such as in a shipment of lima beans) be ruled out? There has been a lot of days with southwest winds in the past month in CT.

Also, while I watched, I noticed it spent nearly all its time flying high in a mimosa (Persian silk) tree. Is this a known foodplant for either species? It’s in the legume family.

Peter DeGennaro

Naugatuck, CT 

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Posted by: Peter DeGennaro <dege...@gmail.com>

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