Pololu Carrier Electronics

[Rob Giseburt]

Hello Makerbotters,

I have designed some 3-axis Pololu Stepper Motor Driver (PSMD)
carriers, thing http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4526 , and they have
been thoroughly tested by many members of this group. I'm finally
happy with the design and ready to make a production run of them. I
would like to have them completely assembled instead of as a kit.

Unfortunately, in order to do that I need to order at least 100 first.
I don't mind that, unless I can't sell enough to at least cover my
costs.

So, if you are interested, please reply to this post either directly
to me or on-list. Please ask questions to to whole list if you can.
Let me know if you want more than one.

Price: $45

What they are:
* PCB, headers, resistors, LEDs, switches, etc., *fully assembled,*
that will carry three Pololu A4883 (http://j.mp/pololu-smd) stepper
motor drivers.
* Pololu drivers are capable of 1/16th microstepping. Gen3 could only
do 1/2, and Gen4 can do 1/8th. This increases your resolution and
makes your bot a lot quieter.
* Compatible with Gen3, Gen4, and other electronics. The pinouts are
clearly documented if you wish to use one with other CNC projects. Use
with Gen3 and Gen4 motherboards is plug-and-play, with minor
machines.xml changes.
* Compact size: All three axes are in the size of one Gen3/Gen4
stepper driver (plus 1/4" on one of the sides), and uses the same
mounting holes.
* Works on a Cupcake or in a Thing-O-Matic without drilling new holes.
It's also proven to work great on a RepRap.
* Designed to not overheat, without heat-sinks. If you *do* have a
heat problem, a small PC case-fan mount and 12V power connector is on
the PCB. So far no one has used the fan or had one overheat.
* Can be run at up to 35V. The 12V out can be changed into a 12V-35V
power-in with the removal of the only jumper.
* DIP switches change the microstepping, with clear labeling to guide you.

Note that that is without the Pololu drivers themselves. You still
need to buy them separately.

If you wish to run a 4th or 5th stepper (extruders, etc) you will need
two carriers, but you do not have to fill all of the positions with
Pololu drivers. You can also use a Gen3/4 driver for the extruder and
this for the other 3 axes without a problem.

If I cannot get at least 50 people to say they are interested, I might
still do the run, but I will have to raise the initial price.

Thank you,
-Rob

[M.Rule]

You could try putting just the board design up for sale at BatchPCB. I
don't know if it would be cost effective, but this would allow people
to order individual boards, and I think you might get a small
commission per sale?

What service do you intend to use for board fabrication and assembly?

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[Rob Giseburt]

I could put it on BatchPCB. Anyone could, the eagle files are on the thing. :-)

The components and all come to about the price I'm offering it at,
when ordering for 20 kits. It would most likely cost you more to order
all of the parts and the PCB separately, then you'd have to build it.

I'm looking at Seeed Studio for the manufacturing and sales, both. If
anyone else wants to resell it, that'd be great too. ;-)

-Rob

[Mike Payson]

Not sure why everybody keeps recommending BatchPCB... It is expensive and slow. If you are going to go for slow anyway, why not go cheap and slow?

I'm guessing that this board is about 3x3", so at $2.50/sq. in. + $10 setup, you are looking at $32.50 + shipping for one copy of this board. Iteadstudio gives you 10 copies of your <4x4" pcb for $29 including shipping. Delivery takes 3 weeks typically, but BatchPCB is about the same (maybe a bit faster now), and having a spare PCB or nine is never a bad idea.

http://iteadstudio.com/store/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=19_20

[Whosawhatsis]

Arg! I was waiting for these and finally gave up and got the
individual carriers from makergear. Well, the side of my bot could use
the cleanup, so I'll take one.

[Matt Smollinger]

Rob, I'd be in for one. A bunch of people in the comments on
Thingiverse would also I think be in for at least one or more.


--MS--

On Aug 16, 1:26 am, Mike Payson <m...@dawgdayz.com> wrote:
> Not sure why everybody keeps recommending BatchPCB... It is expensive and

> slow. If you are going to go for slow in anyway, why not go cheap and slow?

>
> I'm guessing that this board is about 3x3", so at $2.50/sq. in. + $10 setup,
> you are looking at $32.50 + shipping for one copy of this board. Iteadstudio
> gives you 10 copies of your <4x4" pcb for $29 including shipping. Delivery
> takes 3 weeks typically, but BatchPCB is about the same (maybe a bit faster
> now), and having a spare PCB or nine is never a bad idea.
>
> http://iteadstudio.com/store/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=19_20
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 15, 2011 at 8:37 PM, M.Rule <mrule7...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > You could try putting just the board design up for sale at BatchPCB. I
> > don't know if it would be cost effective, but this would allow people
> > to order individual boards, and I think you might get a small
> > commission per sale?
>
> > What service do you intend to use for board fabrication and assembly?
>

> > On Mon, Aug 15, 2011 at 11:07 PM, Rob Giseburt <giseb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Hello Makerbotters,
>
> > > I have designed some 3-axis Pololu Stepper Motor Driver (PSMD)

> > > carriers, thinghttp://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4526, and they have

[clive...@gmail.com]

Hi

Do you have any idea of the cost to send one to Hong Kong? I am interested if you can ship international.

Clive
Sent from my BlackBerry® smartphone from SmarTone-Vodafone

[Whosawhatsis]

If Seeed is making them, you should be able to get them faster than
any of us. They're based in Shenzhen.

[Garth Kidd]

Rob, I'd take one, down here in Australia. I bet I'm not alone in that. 

Yours,

Garth. 

[ddurant]

Heya Rob!

 

Others: I snagged an earlier version of one of these boards at Botacon last year and it's one of the best upgrades you can do to a Cupcake, second only to a stepper extruder, IMO. You WILL be amazed at how much quieter the machine is with just an electronics change. The added resolution is nice and all but the decrease in sound alone is more than worth the price.

 

This is one of those must-have upgrades for Cupcakes.

[Rob Giseburt]

I've got about 15 takers so far. If I can get about 15 more I'll be happy and start the order process.  

  -Rob

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[Linkreincarnate]

Hey Rob, I am interested in something similar. Do you think you could
design a 7 stepper carrier?

On Aug 16, 7:08 pm, Rob Giseburt <giseb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I've got about 15 takers so far. If I can get about 15 more I'll be happy
> and start the order process.
>
>   -Rob
>

> On Aug 16, 2011, at 8:30 AM, ddurant <dduran...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Heya Rob!
>
> Others: I snagged an earlier version of one of these boards at Botacon last
> year and it's one of the best upgrades you can do to a Cupcake, second only
> to a stepper extruder, IMO. You WILL be amazed at how much quieter the
> machine is with just an electronics change. The added resolution is nice and
> all but the decrease in sound alone is more than worth the price.
>
> This is one of those must-have upgrades for Cupcakes.
>
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> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
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> To view this discussion on the web visithttps://groups.google.com/d/msg/makerbot/-/gbO6hPdGIFYJ.

[Rob Giseburt]

Wow, 7 steppers!

Well, it's possible. In the eagle files each axis is separate, so it
would just be duplicating in the schematic and placement and routing
on the board side.

However, these are about as tight as you could get them. You could
order three and only use seven of the nine positions. The power
connectors being separate is annoying.

-Rob

[Norm Sohl]

I'd like to join the order.  Sounds like just the thing!  How should we work the order out?
--Norm Sohl

[Rob Giseburt]

Very cool, thank you.

The order itself will be later. Right now I’m just gauging interest. I’m going to place the order ASAP to have them manufactured, and will report back with an ETA. Once they’re made, or at least I have a good estimate of delivery times, I’ll take actual preorders with payment, or you can order through Seeed Studio when they open it up for order. I’m hoping they’ll stock the drivers themselves as well, so that they could be a one-stop-order for all that you need.

  -Rob

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On Aug 17, 2011, at 3:47 PM, Norm Sohl wrote:

I'd like to join the order.  Sounds like just the thing!  How should we work the order out?
--Norm Sohl

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[Mike Payson]

Rob, 

The only question I have is why only 3 axes? Making it a four axis board that supported a stepper extruder would add very little to the cost, and could always be left unused by people who are still using DC motor extruders. If you do add a space for the extruder, be sure to either set it for 1/8 step mode or make it selectable. Otherwise you will be artificially limiting your printer speed, since you won't be able to step fast enough to drive the extruder as fast as you can move the XY (I would also set the Z for 1/8 step personally, but it is not quite as important).

Mike

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[Rob Giseburt]

I went with three axes for a few reasons:

* The two main stepper extruders on the market came with drivers

* There will soon be two-extruder designs on the market. (It's taken longer than I expected.) Three and four will be soon behind.

* The Prusa Mendel uses two steppers for the Z axis. This makes four drivers for three axes. With two extruders, that's six axes.

* You need at least three. If you buy multiple boards, you waste less axes than in you need a fifth an there are four-axes boards. 

* I can charge less making more or one design than less of two designs. If I sold a 4-axis and a 1- or 2-axis board, it would cost more than two 3-axis boards.

Also, setting the microstepping is as simple as flipping a few switches on the back. They are on the back to prevent overheating, which would happen if they were on the front, under the drivers. 

  -Rob

[Aaron Double]

Hey folks,

I just thought I would jump into this discussion.

I've been using Rob's PSMD since I bought one off of him at Botacon last year and I have to say that I have been extremely happy with the outcome! I can have phone conversations sitting two feet away from it while it's running and the person on the phone can't tell. I can have the bot running while my 2 year old is sleeping. Ironically, when the steppers get quieter, you can hear the quiet musical tone that the steppers give off, completely changes the sound.

On another note, I installed one to my MK6 last night, ran 7 hours of prints today at 16th step, not once did the stepper make that gonk sound of missing a step and it was still cool enough that you could comfortable touch it. No gear head strip outs either.

Here are some pics:

(Before anyone mentions it, yes, my wiring is a mess)

[Mike Payson]

On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 7:49 PM, Rob Giseburt <gise...@gmail.com> wrote:

I went with three axes for a few reasons:

* The two main stepper extruders on the market came with drivers

* There will soon be two-extruder designs on the market. (It's taken longer than I expected.) Three and four will be soon behind.

* The Prusa Mendel uses two steppers for the Z axis. This makes four drivers for three axes. With two extruders, that's six axes.

* You need at least three. If you buy multiple boards, you waste less axes than in you need a fifth an there are four-axes boards. 

* I can charge less making more or one design than less of two designs. If I sold a 4-axis and a 1- or 2-axis board, it would cost more than two 3-axis boards.

I'll respond point by point...

* Maybe the Makerbot comes with a driver, but the Makergear doesn't. 

* Granted, but you cannot be all things to all people ;-) 
* the Prusa drives two motors from a single driver

* Most users probably will not be using dual extruders in the near future, so in actuality your system costs considerably more for the majority of users 

* This is often a fallacy... Storage and logistics costs usually eat up any savings manufacturing savings

Assuming you populate all four positions with all components (except the Pololu), I would expect the extra costs to be ~$3 for a fourth driver, including the extra board space and all components (though I have not looked in any detail at yor BoM, so that may be off a bit). To me, it is well worth the extra money, but I use RAMPS so I am not in the market for your board. Nonetheless, I suspect your board will be much more successful if it supports four drivers than 3.

 

Also, setting the microstepping is as simple as flipping a few switches on the back. They are on the back to prevent overheating, which would happen if they were on the front, under the drivers. 

Ah, perfect. Your description implied that the step mode was fixed at 1/16, which is fine for X & Y, and acceptable for Z, but not good for E.

[John Yang]

I had a 4 axis board available but found that there was not enough
interest to maintain it given the costs and the pth kit nature. So I
would think that Rob's decision to go 3 axis with an assembled smd
board is probably a good one. I also had designs for a 5 axis board,
but at that point the cost of my setup would have been more than a
ramps kit from ultimachine, so I just shelved that plan since it
didn't make sense economically.

Rob, I hope you get enough interest to get your run done at seeed.
I'd also be interested to hear how the process went, and how you liked
their propagate service.

Good luck
John

[Rob Giseburt]

Thank you, John.

And I'll happily share how it goes. :-)

-Rob

[max mulholland]

i will go for it it solves a big problem i have count me in

On Aug 18, 5:31 pm, Rob Giseburt <giseb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Thank you, John.
>
> And I'll happily share how it goes. :-)
>
>   -Rob
>

[JohnA.]

I'll jump on the pile and just note -- I've been running Rob's boards
(the first gen and the newer model) as long as they've been available,
and they've been great. We run them on both of our Cupcakes at the
moment.

New model: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jabella/5590740960/in/set-72157623829152993

Old model: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jabella/5322772732/in/set-72157623829152993

Bot of our bots will be at Maker Faire if anyone wants to see these in
action this coming weekend.

JohnA.

[Matt Smollinger]

John: nice pics. Looking forward to being able to clean up the side of
my bot in a similar fashion Mine's currently a train-wreck with all
the modifications I've been doing.

--Matt S.--

[Zip Zap]

So the upper right board is the stepper for your extruder?

---

From: JohnA. <john....@gmail.com>
To: MakerBot Operators <make...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Monday, September 12, 2011 6:54 AM
Subject: [MakerBot] Re: Pololu Carrier Electronics

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[JohnA.]

Yep. MK6+ on one bot, MK6 on the other. Both are setup similarly,
electronics-wise.

JohnA.

On Sep 12, 8:53 pm, Zip Zap <zzap...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> So the upper right board is the stepper for your extruder?
>
> ________________________________

> From: JohnA. <john.abe...@gmail.com>

> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to makerbot+u...@googlegroups.com.

[Matt Smollinger]

Where's the 4th controller on the "older model" pic? (out of
curiosity).

[Z LeHericy]

looks like the older model is a DC extruder, where the new one is a stepper extruder
-Zeno LeHericy

//((=:Z:=))\\
INVENTIONS
Technologies
zinventions.com

[Matt Smollinger]

He mentioned it was a Mk6 in an earlier post, but yeah I agree that it
looks like it's a DC motor (can see it peaking over the top of the
machine). Means it's a MK5 :)

On Sep 13, 12:21 am, Z LeHericy <zeno...@gmail.com> wrote:
> looks like the older model is a DC extruder, where the new one is a stepper
> extruder
> -Zeno LeHericy
>
> //((=:Z:=))\\
> INVENTIONS
> Technologies
> zinventions.com
>

[JohnA.]

Yeah, I've been running the PSMD since way before there were any
stepper extruders available for Cupcakes, hence the old DC motor.

Now both bots have similar board layouts, though the new PSMD is
smaller.

new: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jabella/5590739468/in/photostream/
original: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jabella/5316996115/

Just for comparison.

JohnA.

[Rob Giseburt]

Hi John,

Those are great Pics, thanks for sharing! And thank you for sharing you’re experiences with them.

I wish I could have made it to the NY Maker Faire this year! The 3D Printing Village sounds awesome!

For anyone who is having problems with their bot, or just want to maybe tune it up some, go check out the 3D Printer Village at the NY Maker Faire! Or if you would like to help, please join them as well!

  -Rob

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[onikaze]

I will definitely take one. Please let me know when you get them in.


Tom M

On Sep 12, 8:53 pm, Zip Zap <zzap...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> So the upper right board is the stepper for your extruder?
>
> ________________________________

> From: JohnA. <john.abe...@gmail.com>

> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to makerbot+u...@googlegroups.com.

[Rob Giseburt]

Excellent! I’ll put you on the list. I’m expecting them to finish production in the next 30 days…

  -Rob

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[Zip Zap]

How much is it?  I have spare pololus laying around that I've always wanted to convert to MB steppers.  Makergear never has the carriers in stock.

---

From: Rob Giseburt <gise...@gmail.com>
To: make...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Saturday, October 1, 2011 5:47 PM
Subject: Re: [MakerBot] Pololu Carrier Electronics

[Rob Giseburt]

They will be $45 dollars.

  -Rob

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Member of CCCKC Hackerspace

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[Zip Zap]

Then put me on the list also.

---

From: Rob Giseburt <gise...@gmail.com>
To: make...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Saturday, October 1, 2011 8:32 PM

[neoteric]

Rob, please put me on the list!

On Sep 12, 8:53 pm, Zip Zap <zzap...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> So the upper right board is the stepper for your extruder?
>
> ________________________________

> From: JohnA. <john.abe...@gmail.com>

> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to makerbot+u...@googlegroups.com.

[Reversity]

I'm interested too.

[Bill]

Still very interested. Just putting in my 2cents.
Cheers
Bill

[Bill]

As a matter of fact, I'm going to need two boards. One for my
Cupcake, and one for my soon-to-be-purchased TOM

Bill

[Aaron Double]

I have 2 on my cupcake, one for X Y Z, one for two extruders.

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[Rob Giseburt]

Hi Bill. I was just looking over my email and wanted to make sure I got back with you. 

It looks like the fabricator will have the PSMD board done in the third week of November. (That’s a three week slip!) I’ll send out a preorder email once they’re closer.

The 3G 5D Shields are here and I’m making kits now. I’ll send that preorder email out very soon. I don’t have proper instructions made yet, but will this weekend. I’ll probably be ready to start taking orders Monday, at the latest.

Thank you!

  -Rob

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[Matt Smollinger]

People are probably paying to jump the line. I know my Dad's company
does that all the time.

Put me down for a 2nd one too Rob. Will need it for the eventual dual
extrusion setup (I'm assuming I also am gonna need Gen4 for that).

Matt

[dec...@shanaghy.com]

Sign me up for one please.

On Sep 12, 5:53 pm, Zip Zap <zzap...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> So the upper right board is the stepper for your extruder?
>
> ________________________________

> From: JohnA. <john.abe...@gmail.com>

> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to makerbot+u...@googlegroups.com.

[Tim]

I would like one as well.