[MakerBot] Replicator HBP connector discoloration

[Gary Crowell]

From reading posts long before I got my Replicator, I knew that this was a problem with TOM's and other printers, so I would have thought the Replicator design would have addressed this issue.  Guess not.  A few days ago I noticed some discoloration on the two leftmost pins of the connector body, and since then it has gotten dramatically worse.  

Suggestions?

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[W. Craig Trader]

MBI has always contended that the discoloration wouldn't occur in a TOM if proper strain-relief was used, and that was what they changed for the Replicator.  My contention is that the connector itself is using materials that aren't rated for the heat and current demands for a heated build platform.  It will be interesting to see their response on this issue.  (Currently working my way through my second discolored TOM HBP cable).

- Craig -

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[Gary Crowell]

Strain-reliefs in place; yup.

On Mon, May 14, 2012 at 10:22 AM, W. Craig Trader <craig....@gmail.com> wrote:

MBI has always contended that the discoloration wouldn't occur in a TOM if proper strain-relief was used, 

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[Dan Newman]

Gary Crowell wrote:
> From reading posts long before I got my Replicator, I knew that this
> was a problem with TOM's and other printers, so I would have thought
> the Replicator design would have addressed this issue. Guess not. A
> few days ago I noticed some discoloration on the two leftmost pins of
> the connector body, and since then it has gotten dramatically worse.
>
> Suggestions?

If you have printed relatively little on this printer (< 50 hours), then
I'd be concerned that
there's a contact problem between the male connector pins and the female
sockets: an issue
that has caused significant reduction in contact area. That will cause
excessive heating.
You might want to remove the connector and see if there is evident
corrosion or some other
problem (e.g., it fits very loosely indicating poor mating).

There is definitely a problem with the housings used on ToMs and
Replicators. The
standard Molex 0.156 KK connector housing is rated at a max of 75C (0 -
75C); the
special order high temp ones from Molex go to 105C (-40 - 105C). So,
over time you
can anticipate a problem with the standard connectors. However, if
you're seeing a
problem in under, say, 50 hours operation then I'd suspect a contact
area problem.

Dan

[Gary Crowell]

Here is what the connector looked like a little over two weeks ago.

A couple of days later it was noticeably darker. 

I emailed MBI, showed them the photos, and they immediately sent me a new cable.

That was nice, but I really didn't think a new cable would fix anything.  The finish on the connector pins was almost certainly toasted already, and a new connector would just connect to a high resistance, creating a high temperature, and cooking the new connector even faster.

So yesterday, the HBP became a BP, all by itself.  No heat.  The connector looked even   worse   now.  

(I was still getting 24V at the pins, and the platform measured 5-6 ohms.)

To fix it, I poked the two pins out of the connector shell and cut away those two locations of the shell - it was very brittle.

I then cut off the old pins, stripped the wires (a little more than is shown here), and crimped on some male 1/4" faston lugs (they go by other names, but faston is what comes to mind).  There should be just enough wire on the cable to get this done without having to cut away the heatshrink on the end of the original cable.  I folded over the last 1/3 of the stripped wires so they would fit better in the crimp.  These could be soldered, but if the crimp is good it shouldn't be necessary.  Do not 'tin' the wires before crimping.

The female faston's are prepared by removing the insulation.

I didn't get a picture, but the female faston's are slipped over the two leftmost pins of the HBP connector.  They can be lightly crimped with needlenose pliers to keep them in place while they are soldered.  Then they are covered with heatshrink tubing and the shrink is shrunk.  It'll look like this when done.

Reinstall the cut-down connector and plug in the faston's and here's what I've got.  Don't forget to clamp down the strain relief under the platform.

I suspect MBI is going to have a lot of trouble with this.

Gary

[Andrew Plumb]

Just had a thought.  What's your HBP cleaning procedure?  Do you wipe it down while the machine is still powered up?

If you wipe it with acetone or some other cleaner-solvent, where did it come from and what's the exact product ID/number?

I'm suspicious of what solvent+24VDC+heat might be doing over time.  The rear-mounted connector may make it more prone to getting wiped than the previous (ToM) forward-mounted connector.

Andrew.

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[Cymon]

I wonder if that's what is wrong with mine? Sent it back to makerbot since the white sparks undermined my confidence a bit.

For all the advancements that makerbot has made this is still in a very experimental phase.

[John D'Ausilio]

I think it's just under-specified .. I've been having good luck using
an anti-oxidant compound (I use Deoxit Gold), applied weekly ... plus
lots less degradation running at 60C for pla ...

On Sat, May 26, 2012 at 12:46 PM, Cymon <joeal...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I wonder if that's what is wrong with mine? Sent it back to makerbot since the white sparks undermined my confidence a bit.
>
> For all the advancements that makerbot has made this is still in a very experimental phase.
>

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[Gary Crowell]

100% acetone.  Usually applied while the platform is heating up.  When I started with it six weeks ago I used to wipe it down often, but tapered off so that I seldom wipe it now.  I strongly doubt that I would have ever gotten any liquid on the connector, though the vapor would have been there.

Gary

[Gary Crowell]

When mine finally quit, I tried wiggling the connector, to get that 'one last print'.  Got some nice blue arcs inside the connector shell, so I knew it was time to fix it.

Gary

On Sat, May 26, 2012 at 10:46 AM, Cymon <joeal...@gmail.com> wrote:

I wonder if that's what is wrong with mine? Sent it back to makerbot since the white sparks undermined my confidence a bit.

For all the advancements that makerbot has made this is still in a very experimental phase.

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[MacGyver]

Here's a pic of mine on my TOM from a couple of months ago.
http://i.imgur.com/Bip3N.jpg I've printed about 100 things with this
same connector since then. I ordered a new Heater board and connector
but I haven't had to put them on yet. This photo shows the bent up
pin http://i.imgur.com/xKMeY.jpg I bent it back down and plugged it
back in and it still works.

I think the problem is that molex plastic is rated for temps much
lower than we are throwing at it.

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[Mark Cohen]

It has already been discussed that the molex connector is exceeding the 75c/85c specification. I just order about 10 replacements and connectors every couple of months from mouser and change them every 8 to 12 weeks. They only last 3 months max for me. I just went through 8 last month for a large project. Oh and i did tell makerbot about this personally.

[66tbird]

Just wondering what the volt/amp draw is through that connector?

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[Dan Newman]

On 26 May 2012 , at 3:33 PM, 66tbird wrote:

> Just wondering what the volt/amp draw is through that connector?

This is just speculation: I'd guess that the amperage is about the same
as the ToM's HBP. The voltage for the Replicator's HBP is 24V which is
double that of the ToM's. However, the Replicator's HBP is about twice
the surface area (actually a bit larger, around 2.3 times). If the
copper traces on the Replicator and ToM HBPs are the same thickness,
then the resistance of the Replicator's HBP heater is about twice that
of the ToM's HBP. (The traces are the same widths as per the Eagle
board layouts.) So, twice the voltage and about twice the resistance
so the amperages should be about the same. (In the normal operating
ranges, the FETs aren't going to be limiting the currents.)

However, it takes longer to heat up the Replicator's HBP so 100 prints
on a Replicator is going to put more aging on the harness than the same
100 prints on a ToM, assuming the same cycling of heater on/off once
printing has commenced. Actually, I'd expect a Replicator to be doing
more cycling as well: a larger area to keep heated up.

Net, net, I'd expect the harness on a Replicator to age faster and that
seems to be what folks are reporting. (I sure don't recall folks reporting
their harness cooking after a couple of weeks when the HBP was introduced
for the Cupcake. Likewise for the ToM.) OTOH, it could just be that MBI
got a batch of Molex .156 KK connectors with lousy finish plating and lower
contact area thus causing this problem. (Lower contact area means higher
contact resistance which is bad news.)

I know that some folks who want largish heated build platforms tend
to go in the direction of silicone heater pads which have connectors
designed for this sort of environment. However, most of those pads
run off of the mains AC instead of more mundane 12 or 24 VDC. As such,
their use brings a whole new safety concern: high voltage AC inside
your bot.

Dan

[TSDF-3D]

Would placing an insulating pad over the HBP areas not being printed on during a build help lengthen the connector life by reducing the power required to maintain temp? It has seemed to be a waste of time and juice to heat the full surface of the platform for a just few square cm's of print.

[Sven]

I had this problem removed the coupler and replaced with higher gauge wire soldered directly to hpb pins

[drando...@gmail.com]

49 hours of continus printing and I'm just starting to see the discoloration forming. Might be time to start sourcing alternative connectors.

[Shawn]

I noticed the discoloration about a month after getting the Replicator.
The second pin from the left is a little brown. But it has stayed
stable since then. I have a suspicion that acetone fumes are to blame
in my case. So I don't rarely use acetone on the platform anymore, and
when I do I try to do so when it is not heating. Still, this is
something I'm keeping an eye on.

[Gary Crowell]

According to the Wikipedia entry on Acetone: "It is also useful for high reliability soldering applications to remove solder rosin after soldering is complete."   

So it appears that acetone is compatible with electronics.  Doesn't rule out the possibility of the acetone+temperature doing something, but I would think it unlikely.

Gary

On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 11:17 AM, Shawn <sgr...@open2space.com> wrote:

I noticed the discoloration about a month after getting the Replicator.  The second pin from the left is a little brown.  But it has stayed stable since then.  I have a suspicion that acetone fumes are to blame in my case.  So I don't rarely use acetone on the platform anymore, and when I do I try to do so when it is not heating.  Still, this is something I'm keeping an eye on.

[Gary Crowell]

When I had mine apart, I was really just checking for continuity at the pins, but I seem to recall it measuring about 6 ohms.  @24V that would be about 4A, and about 100 Watts.  Does that sound right?  I was thinking it would be less.

Gary

On Sat, May 26, 2012 at 4:33 PM, 66tbird <joh...@q.com> wrote:

Just wondering what the volt/amp draw is through that connector?

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[AKron]

It's not that the connector cannot handle the temperature (it can),
it's getting discolored because of an over current situation, or the
discoloration would be all over the connector. I've seen this in the
Test Lab hundreds of times before. Acetone fumes? No.

[Gary Crowell]

Is this the connector?  (board side):  http://www.molex.com/molex/products/datasheet.jsp?part=active/0026481065_PCB_HEADERS.xml 

I didn't take the platform off when I fixed mine, so I didn't get a good look at it.  ... I guess there must be a BOM somewhere that would list it.

Gary

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[Dan Newman]

On 19 Jun 2012 , at 1:56 PM, Gary Crowell wrote:

> Is this the connector? (board side):
> http://www.molex.com/molex/products/datasheet.jsp?part=active/0026481065_PCB_HEADERS.xml

I'm not sure that MBI uses a break-away version, but it is a straight (not right angle)
Molex KK 0.156 connector. The standard Molex KK 156 is rated to 75C. They have
special order ones rated to 105C.

Dan

[Busybotz]

I have the same problem with the HBP connector on my Replicator. The good news is, Makerbot support emailed today that the new connectors are in. I have not seen it yet, but hopefully this will do the trick.

[John Foster]

On Tuesday, June 19, 2012 4:56:15 PM UTC-4, Gary wrote:

Is this the connector?  (board side):  http://www.molex.com/molex/products/datasheet.jsp?part=active/0026481065_PCB_HEADERS.xml 

I didn't take the platform off when I fixed mine, so I didn't get a good look at it.  ... I guess there must be a BOM somewhere that would list it.

Gary

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That is indeed the connector MBI uses for the HBP.  It's a Molex connector with a 0.156" pitch.  I work for an electronics company and I "borrowed" one or two from stock to use as spares...


John Foster
Mechanical Engineer

[Gary Crowell]

FYI, if the pins haven't detatched from the board, you can fix it in about an hour, without removing the HBP or cable.  See my post in this thread on 5/25.  Mine's been solid for two months since the fix.  It does require soldering, and once done, you can't go back to the standard Molex connector, but I think it's better.

Gary

On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 11:40 PM, Marius Watz <mariu...@gmail.com> wrote:

Just wanted to pipe in and say my HBP connector is completely burnt around the two left-mos pins (left when viewed from the front of the Makerbot, that is.) I've been able to print on it up until now, but just now I'm seeing that the build platform fails to heat at all.

I have probably put in more than 200-300 hours of printing on my machine, a lot of it over a period where it printed almost 24/7. I'm not exactly surprised the machine needs maintenance. 

However: It would be nice to know if certain parts on the bot should be considered "perishable", as it sounds like some people in this thread are saying about the connectors. If I had known I would have planned to have replacements on hand, right now I'm losing printing time right before a deadline.

-marius

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[AdanA]

Someone mentioned a spray that, if applied before the connector failed, could help improve conductivity and reduce the chance of failure... but I can't seem to find that mention in my searching here. What was that, and have others tried it with success?

My interest in the topic has suddenly spiked upward, as I've noticed yellowing on the left side of the connector. Oh no!

Thanks,

Adan

Gary

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[Shawn]

When this happened to me (in the past few weeks), I noticed after the
fact that the solder pad for the left most pin (the HEAT pin) was pretty
much gone due to the heat. You could try to re-solder that joint - and
probably the next one over too, if you can get the connector off without
taking the pins too. This might get you limping along until the
replacement parts arrive. For safety, if you do this I wouldn't leave
the printer unattended - after all it already has a known heat problem...

I have one of the earlier models that had the warped build platform. I
was able to limp along by putting that platform back into service. But
it sure was frustrating. (bad plastic at the same time didn't help any
either).

As for perishable or not, I personally didn't consider the wiring
harness or HBP as perishable. But, now I'm planning on having a spare
HBP, in addition to a spare nozzle. I also have spare extruders coming
(bought the Kickstarter project deal for other reasons, but they will
also serve as spares).

Shawn

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[Gary Crowell]

I don't recall who/were it was, but he was talking about a product called DeOxit, found here:

http://www.newark.com/caig-laboratories/g100l-2db/contact-cleaner-brush-7-4ml/dp/08H0312 

I'm surprised at the cost, but it probably goes a long way and worth it if it avoids the problem.  However he used it from the start.  If you're already showing discoloration, the contact surfaces are probably burned beyond a simple fix.

Gary

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[Adan Akerman]

A little cheaper at Amazon ( http://www.amazon.com/DeoxIT%C2%AE-Liquid-brush-applicator-solution/dp/B0015A7CYG/ref=sr_1_14?ie=UTF8&qid=1342717875&sr=8-14&keywords=deoxit ) but still pricey... yikes.

Am I being unreasonable to wonder if maybe MBI ought to be responsible for providing that if it's what's needed to avoid connector flameout?

Seen from the other perspective, if they'd told me up front it was a necessary maintenance item / task, I may not have blinked.

[Gerald Orban]

I don't know if you guys have tried this, but I opened a support ticket with MBI and they promptly shipped me a beefed up wire which should be specced out correctly for the machine now.

[Adan Akerman]

Definitely, I've opened a ticket too. In process.

Out of curiosity, would you be willing to post a picture of the connector end of the harness you received? Also, if you have the package still, what's the part number? I have an extra 900-MP02560, which they sent me when I first got mine. While it was in the mail here, though, my brother-in-law soldered up a fix for the problem that had prompted our requesting the replacement (wire torn out in shipping). So I've still got the extra, ready to install if necessary, but it appears identical, not beefed up.

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[Gerald Orban]

Sure thing, I'll post a picture when I get home from work (with Part #).

[Adan Akerman]

Thanks!

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[Shawn]

Here's a picture of the harness I received. The big differences are the
red connector, and the wires are thicker. When you install the harness,
the clips (the one you had to push in at the base of the z-axis, and the
one under the platform) are too small and will not work with this
harness. I was going to print replacements, but haven't gotten to it
yet. (hmm.. I should check Thingiverse..)

Sorry, I don't know part numbers.

On 12-07-19 11:39 AM, Adan Akerman wrote:
> Definitely, I've opened a ticket too. In process.
>
> Out of curiosity, would you be willing to post a picture of the
> connector end of the harness you received? Also, if you have the package
> still, what's the part number? I have an extra 900-MP02560, which they
> sent me when I first got mine. While it was in the mail here, though, my
> brother-in-law soldered up a fix for the problem that had prompted our
> requesting the replacement (wire torn out in shipping). So I've still
> got the extra, ready to install if necessary, but it appears identical,
> not beefed up.
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 19, 2012 at 1:33 PM, Gerald Orban <gjo...@gmail.com
> <mailto:gjo...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> I don't know if you guys have tried this, but I opened a support
> ticket with MBI and they promptly shipped me a beefed up wire which
> should be specced out correctly for the machine now.
>
>
> On Thursday, July 19, 2012 10:17:14 AM UTC-7, AdanA wrote:
>
> A little cheaper at Amazon (

> http://www.amazon.com/DeoxIT%__C2%AE-Liquid-brush-applicator-__solution/dp/B0015A7CYG/ref=sr___1_14?ie=UTF8&qid=1342717875&__sr=8-14&keywords=deoxit

> <http://www.amazon.com/DeoxIT%C2%AE-Liquid-brush-applicator-solution/dp/B0015A7CYG/ref=sr_1_14?ie=UTF8&qid=1342717875&sr=8-14&keywords=deoxit> )
> but still pricey... yikes.
>
> Am I being unreasonable to wonder if maybe MBI ought to be
> responsible for providing that if it's what's needed to avoid
> connector flameout?
>
> Seen from the other perspective, if they'd told me up front it
> was a necessary maintenance item / task, I may not have blinked.
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 19, 2012 at 1:01 PM, Gary Crowell
> <garyacr...@gmail.com <mailto:garyacr...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> I don't recall who/were it was, but he was talking about a
> product called DeOxit, found here:

> http://www.newark.com/caig-__laboratories/g100l-2db/__contact-cleaner-brush-7-4ml/__dp/08H0312

> <mariu...@gmail.com <mailto:mariu...@gmail.com>>

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[Gerald Orban]

I was going to do the same (or heck, design some and put it up on thingiverse) but I found that I could make an effective clip using two zip ties :)

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[Adan Akerman]

Thanks for the pic. Definitely different looking.

MBI responded to my service request: essentially, "It's normal..." "rare cases it goes further..." "if it does, and the HBP stops H-ing, we'll send you a new cable."

I'll keep an eye on it!

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[Shawn]

I would order a new wiring harness ASAP, if MBI isn't going to send you
one. Then switch over to the new harness as soon as you get it.

Over the span of a month mine went from a little discoloration to burnt,
to fried HBP. The moment it got to be more than just a little
discoloration, I reported the problem. The replacement harness arrived
about 4 hours AFTER the HBP got fried. Then a week of down time waiting
for new parts. Only after reporting the fried HBP was I told that I
should stop using the printer if the discoloration is noticed.

My opinion is that if you are seeing the discoloration, you are on a
count down to a hardware failure. Act now.

My thoughts.

Shawn

> <mailto:gjo...@gmail.com <mailto:gjo...@gmail.com>>> wrote:
>
> I don't know if you guys have tried this, but I opened a
> support
> ticket with MBI and they promptly shipped me a beefed up
> wire which
> should be specced out correctly for the machine now.
>
>
> On Thursday, July 19, 2012 10:17:14 AM UTC-7, AdanA wrote:
>
> A little cheaper at Amazon (

> http://www.amazon.com/DeoxIT%____C2%AE-Liquid-brush-__applicator-__solution/dp/__B0015A7CYG/ref=sr___1_14?ie=__UTF8&qid=1342717875&__sr=8-14&__keywords=deoxit
> <http://www.amazon.com/DeoxIT%__C2%AE-Liquid-brush-applicator-__solution/dp/B0015A7CYG/ref=sr___1_14?ie=UTF8&qid=1342717875&__sr=8-14&keywords=deoxit>

>
>
> <http://www.amazon.com/DeoxIT%__C2%AE-Liquid-brush-applicator-__solution/dp/B0015A7CYG/ref=sr___1_14?ie=UTF8&qid=1342717875&__sr=8-14&keywords=deoxit
> <http://www.amazon.com/DeoxIT%C2%AE-Liquid-brush-applicator-solution/dp/B0015A7CYG/ref=sr_1_14?ie=UTF8&qid=1342717875&sr=8-14&keywords=deoxit>>
> )
> but still pricey... yikes.
>
> Am I being unreasonable to wonder if maybe MBI ought to be
> responsible for providing that if it's what's needed to
> avoid
> connector flameout?
>
> Seen from the other perspective, if they'd told me up
> front it
> was a necessary maintenance item / task, I may not have
> blinked.
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 19, 2012 at 1:01 PM, Gary Crowell
> <garyacr...@gmail.com

> <mailto:garyacr...@gmail.com>
> <mailto:garyacrowellsr@gmail.__com

> <mailto:garyacr...@gmail.com>>> wrote:
>
> I don't recall who/were it was, but he was talking
> about a
> product called DeOxit, found here:

> http://www.newark.com/caig-____laboratories/g100l-2db/____contact-cleaner-brush-7-4ml/____dp/08H0312
> <http://www.newark.com/caig-__laboratories/g100l-2db/__contact-cleaner-brush-7-4ml/__dp/08H0312>

>
>
> <http://www.newark.com/caig-__laboratories/g100l-2db/__contact-cleaner-brush-7-4ml/__dp/08H0312
> <http://www.newark.com/caig-laboratories/g100l-2db/contact-cleaner-brush-7-4ml/dp/08H0312>>
>
>
> I'm surprised at the cost, but it probably goes a
> long way
> and worth it if it avoids the problem. However he
> used it
> from the start. If you're already showing
> discoloration,
> the contact surfaces are probably burned beyond a
> simple fix.
>
> Gary
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 19, 2012 at 10:40 AM, AdanA
> <ad...@akerworks.com <mailto:ad...@akerworks.com>

> <mailto:ad...@akerworks.com

> <mailto:mariu...@gmail.com> <mailto:mariu...@gmail.com

> ------------------------------________----------------

>
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[Adan Akerman]

That's valuable information... I don't want to be on a count down to hardware failure! Though thermodynamics tells us that's just the way things are, on some timescale or other :-)

So, I wrote back with some thoughts and observations and MBI has graciously offered to send me a beefy red harness. This is great. But I'm torn, and hesitated to mention it here: if they are correct and only a small number of these will fail, my mentioning here the possibility of their sending one to any squeaking gear could encourage a rush of people demanding potentially unnecessary parts. On the other hand, if they are incorrect and in fact every single one of these things is on its way out sometime in the first couple of months of use, there's a humanitarian value in precipitating such a rush.

Anyway. I love printing stuff, I get the shakes just thinking about not being able to. I'm happy this thing's on its way here.

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                     --
                     ------------------------------____----------------

                     Gary A. Crowell Sr., P.E., CID+
                     Linkedin
        <http://www.linkedin.com/in/__garyacrowellsr
        <http://www.linkedin.com/in/garyacrowellsr>> Elance

        <http://www.linkedin.com/__redirect?url=http%3A%2F%__2Fgaryacrowellsr%2Eelance%__2Ecom&urlhash=kJm9
        <http://www.linkedin.com/redirect?url=http%3A%2F%2Fgaryacrowellsr%2Eelance%2Ecom&urlhash=kJm9>>
                     KE7FIZ <http://www.arrl.org>


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[Shawn]

This topic was discussed on the list once or twice in the past month or
three. And the typical comment was "contact support". So you are not
really instigating a rush on support, and not surprising them with
something they are not aware of already. IMO.

For the record, my dealings with MBI Support have been fantastic.

> <mailto:sgr...@open2space.com

> http://www.amazon.com/DeoxIT%______C2%AE-Liquid-brush-____applicator-__solution/dp/____B0015A7CYG/ref=sr___1_14?ie=____UTF8&qid=1342717875&__sr=8-14&____keywords=deoxit
> <http://www.amazon.com/DeoxIT%____C2%AE-Liquid-brush-__applicator-__solution/dp/__B0015A7CYG/ref=sr___1_14?ie=__UTF8&qid=1342717875&__sr=8-14&__keywords=deoxit>

>
> <http://www.amazon.com/DeoxIT%____C2%AE-Liquid-brush-__applicator-__solution/dp/__B0015A7CYG/ref=sr___1_14?ie=__UTF8&qid=1342717875&__sr=8-14&__keywords=deoxit
> <http://www.amazon.com/DeoxIT%__C2%AE-Liquid-brush-applicator-__solution/dp/B0015A7CYG/ref=sr___1_14?ie=UTF8&qid=1342717875&__sr=8-14&keywords=deoxit>>
>
>
>
> <http://www.amazon.com/DeoxIT%____C2%AE-Liquid-brush-__applicator-__solution/dp/__B0015A7CYG/ref=sr___1_14?ie=__UTF8&qid=1342717875&__sr=8-14&__keywords=deoxit
> <http://www.amazon.com/DeoxIT%__C2%AE-Liquid-brush-applicator-__solution/dp/B0015A7CYG/ref=sr___1_14?ie=UTF8&qid=1342717875&__sr=8-14&keywords=deoxit>
>
> <http://www.amazon.com/DeoxIT%__C2%AE-Liquid-brush-applicator-__solution/dp/B0015A7CYG/ref=sr___1_14?ie=UTF8&qid=1342717875&__sr=8-14&keywords=deoxit
> <http://www.amazon.com/DeoxIT%C2%AE-Liquid-brush-applicator-solution/dp/B0015A7CYG/ref=sr_1_14?ie=UTF8&qid=1342717875&sr=8-14&keywords=deoxit>>>
> )
> but still pricey... yikes.
>
> Am I being unreasonable to wonder if maybe MBI
> ought to be
> responsible for providing that if it's what's
> needed to
> avoid
> connector flameout?
>
> Seen from the other perspective, if they'd
> told me up
> front it
> was a necessary maintenance item / task, I may
> not have
> blinked.
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 19, 2012 at 1:01 PM, Gary Crowell
> <garyacr...@gmail.com

> <mailto:garyacr...@gmail.com>
> <mailto:garyacrowellsr@gmail.__com
> <mailto:garyacr...@gmail.com>>

> <mailto:garyacrowellsr@gmail.
> <mailto:garyacrowellsr@gmail.>____com
> <mailto:garyacrowellsr@gmail.__com

> <mailto:garyacr...@gmail.com>>>> wrote:
>
> I don't recall who/were it was, but he was
> talking
> about a
> product called DeOxit, found here:

> http://www.newark.com/caig-______laboratories/g100l-2db/______contact-cleaner-brush-7-4ml/______dp/08H0312
> <http://www.newark.com/caig-____laboratories/g100l-2db/____contact-cleaner-brush-7-4ml/____dp/08H0312>

> <mailto:mariu...@gmail.com>> <mailto:mariu...@gmail.com
> <mailto:mariu...@gmail.com>
> <mailto:mariu...@gmail.com
> <mailto:mariu...@gmail.com>>>__>

> ------------------------------__________----------------

>
> Gary A. Crowell Sr., P.E.,
> CID+
> Linkedin
>

> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/____garyacrowellsr
> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/__garyacrowellsr>

> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/__garyacrowellsr
> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/garyacrowellsr>>>
> Elance
>
>

> <http://www.linkedin.com/____redirect?url=http%3A%2F%____2Fgaryacrowellsr%2Eelance%____2Ecom&urlhash=kJm9
> <http://www.linkedin.com/__redirect?url=http%3A%2F%__2Fgaryacrowellsr%2Eelance%__2Ecom&urlhash=kJm9>

>
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> <http://www.linkedin.com/redirect?url=http%3A%2F%2Fgaryacrowellsr%2Eelance%2Ecom&urlhash=kJm9>>>
> KE7FIZ <http://www.arrl.org>
>
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> ------------------------------________----------------
>
> Gary A. Crowell Sr., P.E., CID+
> Linkedin

> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/____garyacrowellsr
> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/__garyacrowellsr>

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> ------------------------------______----------------
>
> Gary A. Crowell Sr., P.E., CID+
> Linkedin

> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/____garyacrowellsr
> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/__garyacrowellsr>

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> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/garyacrowellsr>>> Elance
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[Adan Akerman]

Definitely. I have been super impressed with all my dealings with them. this is just a little question about when and how quickly you should transition from replacing parts as they break to initiating a voluntary recall.

[Shawn]

I'm not sure I agree. The parts are easy enough to replace. From a
purely financial point of view, why send replacement parts to people who
may not need it? I think doing the support route they have chosen is
probably the right approach. (of course I don't know everything on their
end that lead to that choice either...)

BUT, as a Replicator owner, I'm now seeing the HBP as a point of
failure, so will plan accordingly and have a spare available to me.

> http://www.amazon.com/DeoxIT%________C2%AE-Liquid-brush-______applicator-__solution/dp/______B0015A7CYG/ref=sr___1_14?ie=______UTF8&qid=1342717875&__sr=8-__14&____keywords=deoxit
> <http://www.amazon.com/DeoxIT%______C2%AE-Liquid-brush-____applicator-__solution/dp/____B0015A7CYG/ref=sr___1_14?ie=____UTF8&qid=1342717875&__sr=8-14&____keywords=deoxit>

> http://www.newark.com/caig-________laboratories/g100l-2db/________contact-cleaner-brush-7-4ml/________dp/08H0312
> <http://www.newark.com/caig-______laboratories/g100l-2db/______contact-cleaner-brush-7-4ml/______dp/08H0312>

> ------------------------------____________----------------

>
> Gary A. Crowell
> Sr., P.E.,
> CID+
> Linkedin
>

> <<http://www.linkedin.com/in/____garyacrowellsr>

[Adan Akerman]

I think we agree. I'm probably not expressing it well. The most important point for me is the one you made about not knowing everything on their end. On this end, anecdotal evidence proves that 10 out of 10 people reporting the problem have reported the problem! Surely that's cause for panic.  :-)  but maybe that's just 10 out of the thousand, and we should all just chill.  Everything else they've done suggests that it's fair to assume they're acting with good intentions.

For sure, it will be good to have as many such repair parts on hand as is reasonable.

                          connector end of the harness you received         http://www.amazon.com/DeoxIT%________C2%AE-Liquid-brush-______applicator-__solution/dp/______B0015A7CYG/ref=sr___1_14?ie=______UTF8&qid=1342717875&__sr=8-__14&____keywords=deoxit

        <http://www.amazon.com/DeoxIT%______C2%AE-Liquid-brush-____applicator-__solution/dp/____B0015A7CYG/ref=sr___1_14?ie=____UTF8&qid=1342717875&__sr=8-14&____keywords=deoxit>

        <http://www.amazon.com/DeoxIT%______C2%AE-Liquid-brush-____applicator-__solution/dp/____B0015A7CYG/ref=sr___1_14?ie=____UTF8&qid=1342717875&__sr=8-14&____keywords=deoxit
        <http://www.amazon.com/DeoxIT%____C2%AE-Liquid-brush-__applicator-__solution/dp/__B0015A7CYG/ref=sr___1_14?ie=__UTF8&qid=1342717875&__sr=8-14&__keywords=deoxit>>


        <http://www.amazon.com/DeoxIT%______C2%AE-Liquid-brush-____applicator-__solution/dp/____B0015A7CYG/ref=sr___1_14?ie=____UTF8&qid=1342717875&__sr=8-14&____keywords=deoxit
        <http://www.amazon.com/DeoxIT%____C2%AE-Liquid-brush-__applicator-__solution/dp/__B0015A7CYG/ref=sr___1_14?ie=__UTF8&qid=1342717875&__sr=8-14&__keywords=deoxit>

        <http://www.amazon.com/DeoxIT%____C2%AE-Liquid-brush-__applicator-__solution/dp/__B0015A7CYG/ref=sr___1_14?ie=__UTF8&qid=1342717875&__sr=8-14&__keywords=deoxit
        <http://www.amazon.com/DeoxIT%__C2%AE-Liquid-brush-applicator-__solution/dp/B0015A7CYG/ref=sr___1_14?ie=UTF8&qid=1342717875&__sr=8-14&keywords=deoxit>>>




        <http://www.amazon.com/DeoxIT%______C2%AE-Liquid-brush-____applicator-__solution/dp/____B0015A7CYG/ref=sr___1_14?ie=____UTF8&qid=1342717875&__sr=8-14&____keywords=deoxit
        <http://www.amazon.com/DeoxIT%____C2%AE-Liquid-brush-__applicator-__solution/dp/__B0015A7CYG/ref=sr___1_14?ie=__UTF8&qid=1342717875&__sr=8-14&__keywords=deoxit>

        <http://www.amazon.com/DeoxIT%____C2%AE-Liquid-brush-__applicator-__solution/dp/__B0015A7CYG/ref=sr___1_14?ie=__UTF8&qid=1342717875&__sr=8-14&__keywords=deoxit
        <http://www.amazon.com/DeoxIT%__C2%AE-Liquid-brush-applicator-__solution/dp/B0015A7CYG/ref=sr___1_14?ie=UTF8&qid=1342717875&__sr=8-14&keywords=deoxit>>


        <http://www.amazon.com/DeoxIT%____C2%AE-Liquid-brush-__applicator-__solution/dp/__B0015A7CYG/ref=sr___1_14?ie=__UTF8&qid=1342717875&__sr=8-14&__keywords=deoxit

                                          ------------------------------____________----------------

                                                       Gary A. Crowell
        Sr., P.E.,
                 CID+
                                                       Linkedin

                          <<http://www.linkedin.com/in/____garyacrowellsr>

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[Fastrack]

My connector is a bit worse than yours and I was told the exact same thing. "It's from over-use and if it stops heating, we'll send a replacement".  Well I've printed about 20hrs since that email and the connector is getting darker each print.   

I'm surprised they know there's an issue and do not send out a replacement when someone with the issue reports it!

From what I've read on here, once it stops heating it's probably too late!

Ben

[drando...@gmail.com]

I had a good experience with getting a replacement one from MBI. I sent them a very pleasant email explaining how much I enjoy the machine and how much I was using it and a photo of the discoloration on my connector.
I fully understand their desire not to ship them out blindly and to everyone in bulk as it is extremely costly and lets face it not everyone out there is going to need one.
Just those of us putting the machine under heavy use.
My suggestion would be if yours isn't severely discolored then don't worry. If it is really bad and MBI is giving you a hard time it might be because of a communication or a stock issue.
Yes there is a 1yr warranty on the replicator but remember that doesn't mean preventative replacement just failures or liability issues.
So if you don't want to wait till it fails to get a replacement then try using some kindness and see if they would be willing to sell you one if yours hasn't failed but is discolored.

[Ethan]

Hey everybody,

Ethan here, head of the MBI support team.

I apologize if we've seemed reluctant to send out replacement harnesses.  We do want to get these out before it gets to the point where the board stops heating.  We're happy to make them available to anyone with discoloration on their connector, and it's really better to deal with it sooner rather than later -- if it goes too long, the board can also be damaged.

If you feel that you need a replacement, please send an email to us with a photo of the current state of your connector and we'll get you set up.  I'm going to have a talk with the team about this, so they'll be expecting your messages.

-Ethan

[Adan Akerman]

Ethan,

Thanks so much for the message. 

You've all been super in your responses. I hope I didn't sound ungrateful or rabble-rousing in my notes.

Thanks again,

Adan

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[Fastrack]

Thanks Ethan, I've had great experience with MBI support, so my message wasn't meant to bash you guys!  Just thought it was a bit odd they wanted to wait until it was not heating (which in electrical terms is pretty unsafe!)

Ben

[MacGyver]

After months of nursing my HBP harness the wire finally gave up the ghost last night.  Fortunately I saw the writing on the wall a while back and ordered a replacement.  This is from my MBI Thing-O-Matic.  I looked in the MBI store but didn't see the new red ended wire yet.  Any idea when they'll have that one available in the store?  

To keep my old wire working so long I kept reaching in through the burn hole and prying the connector up so it would keep contact with the pin.  It worked for several months with that huge hole in it.

[Cymon]

I've been keeping an eye on mine and it seems fine for now. But at the same time I'm following up on how to fix it for the inevitable.

One thing I wonder, does it burn out faster if you have a cover for your Makerbot. I still haven't finished mine. Don't really need it in the summer.

On Monday, May 14, 2012 9:46:30 AM UTC-6, Gary wrote:

From reading posts long before I got my Replicator, I knew that this was a problem with TOM's and other printers, so I would have thought the Replicator design would have addressed this issue.  Guess not.  A few days ago I noticed some discoloration on the two leftmost pins of the connector body, and since then it has gotten dramatically worse.  

Suggestions?

--

----------------------------------------------

Gary A. Crowell Sr., P.E., CID+

Linkedin  Elance  KE7FIZ

[Adan Akerman]

Good question. Mine's had a cover for a little under half of its seven weeks of operation. 

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[Dan Newman]

On 20 Jul 2012 , at 1:03 PM, Cymon wrote:

> I've been keeping an eye on mine and it seems fine for now. But at the same
> time I'm following up on how to fix it for the inevitable.
>
> One thing I wonder, does it burn out faster if you have a cover for your
> Makerbot. I still haven't finished mine. Don't really need it in the
> summer.

My gut feeling is that it's unlikely to accelerate the aging process.
It's quite hot near the HBP PCB since that is a heat source. Boxing
in the bot isn't going to make it significantly hotter that close to
the HBP PCB. It will make the cool down process go slower, but that's
unlikely to make a difference. (The main advantage of having sides on
the bot is to prevent cool drafts from wafting through the otherwise
open enclosure.)

The real issue is that once a problem starts with one or both of
those heater pins, it becomes a feedback system and perpetuates
itself Heat induced oxidation reduces the effective contact
area on a male pin or female socket or both. But, with reduced
contact area, the resistive heating effect goes up causing yet more
oxidation. So, at best it's a self-perpetuating cycle. At worst,
the process actually begins accelerating in effect.

Dan

[Joseph Chiu]

Anyone have an opinion on whether that oxidation can be treated with flux?  

Too bad the connectors weren't gold plated.

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[Gerald Orban]

The part # I received for the connector is: 900-MP3053.

[Busybotz]

The HBP connector on my Replicator had the same problem. MakerBot quickly sent the updated harness with the red connector. I put together a video which shows the discoloration, new harness, and also repairing a pin on the HBP:

http://youtu.be/2gJjk9Jazqs

[Ted Larson]

I just got my replacement HBP connector today, and installed it.  Works super!  So nice to have the HBP heating quickly again.  I just cleaned off the discolored pins with a little steel wool.  No problem.

 

-Ted

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[John D]

DeOxit, available at Radio Shaft, controls the problem pretty well .. I re-treat every time I replace the kapton, every few weeks

[AdanA]

Mine just arrived, and in the same mail came my new bottle of DeoxIT Gold G100L. Looking forward to having some good conductivity in the house.

Adan

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