Re: [MakerBot] Replicator 2 skips and makes grinding noise.

[Joseph Chiu]

Seems like you have a shorted out stepper cable.  (see https://groups.google.com/d/msg/makerbot/xAXBbd64Lzc/R9rJv2Pj7wYJ)

On Wed, Feb 6, 2013 at 10:50 PM, Gary Tietjen <gary...@gmail.com> wrote:

Here's the issue I'm having: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AoeCdpbp5c0  ... Please help!  Thank you.

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[Jetguy]

The count keeps climbing.
Exactly when is enough for MakerBot to do recall or update the
documentation?

It's not we we shouldn't help users, but in 4 years, we can't get the
hardware right?

On Feb 7, 9:38 am, Joseph Chiu <joec...@joechiu.com> wrote:
> Seems like you have a shorted out stepper cable.  (seehttps://groups.google.com/d/msg/makerbot/xAXBbd64Lzc/R9rJv2Pj7wYJ)
>
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 6, 2013 at 10:50 PM, Gary Tietjen <garyt...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Here's the issue I'm having:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AoeCdpbp5c0... Please help!  Thank you.

>
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[JohnD]

You seen Bre's new Porsche?  It's blue!

[Gary Tietjen]

Has Makerbot addressed this issue?  Should I even try to fix this or should I get a replacement?

[Gary Tietjen]

I'm pretty convinced of the shorted out stepper cable after watching the video the other guy posted.  It seems like for most people, getting support from Makerbot is a pain, but could it be easier for me since I live in NYC?

[Jetguy]

Why should ANYONE put up with this problem?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4kVC4mmKpE
If your cell phone charger cord sparks-they issue a safety recall

Look here, if your headlamp flashlight shorts out, they recall it.
http://www.cpsc.gov/en/Recalls/2008/Safety-Alert-Petzl-America-Warns-of-Burn-Hazard-from-Headlamps-Product-Should-Only-Be-Used-with-Non-Rechargeable-Batteries/

So don't tell me we don't have a case for MakerBot to proactively warn
customers since they are aware of the problem.

Issue a safety bulletin or be told to do so by the Consumer Safety
Protection Agency.

If you had or have this problem. file a report and help out your
fellow owners or otther customers.
https://www.saferproducts.gov/CPSRMSPublic/Incidents/ReportIncident.aspx

[Gary Tietjen]

Thanks Jetguy, just reported it.  I'll keep you guys posted.

[Gary Tietjen]

Finally received a response from Makerbot support after 4 days, here's what was said:

Hi There, Thank you for contacting MakerBot! I'm so sorry about the delay in getting back to you. Due to unusually high ticket volume, we're not currently able to meet our goal of reaching all of our customers within 24 hours. Rest assured, though, that this is a temporary problem and we'll be back to full speed ahead soon! Thanks again for your patience. First I'd like to ask you to check that all the cables are securely connected to the stepper motors. When you do this, check the cables that plug into the motor as well as the cables that plug into the board below. Also take a look at the cables that run into the End Stop Switches, which are the triggers at the end of every axis. For the cables below the machine, you will need to turn your Replicator 2 on its side and remove the bottom panel. Once you do that, check the big cable with the black wires on edge of the board. If after doing that you are still having issues, I'd like to then look at the BotStep chips on the main board under your Replicator 2. If you look next to the plug on the board below, there should be a row of green boards that plug into the main board. They are labeled X, Y, and Z. If your problems are happening on the X axis, try swapping the X and Y board. If after doing that, the problem is now on the Y axis, we know it's the chip. Take a picture of the board before you remove the chips. IF YOU PUT THE BOTSTEPS BACK IN UPSIDE DOWN, IT WILL FRY THE ENTIRE MACHINE. Give that a try and let me know what you find. Daniel Customer Support Makerbot Industries Anything I should know before tinkering with this thing?

[Nagalfar]

I have the exact same issue and I didn't think it was a pulley or cable issue either, so I went ahead and tried to flip the x and y boards. For your convenience I took a few shoots, but it's rather easy. But the first result aren't very positive for me. Still skips into x direction, the thing that changed was it now ocassionally skipped into x- direction, never did that bevore, but seems to be a coincidence. It does however skip less now, so maybe I was wrong and it is a cable issue, but without spare cables hard to tell. Maybe I can tinker a new cable somehow, but if it's the connector or motor I'll be having a hard time finding out.

[Wingcommander whpthomas]

Nagalfar: I had one thought looking a this, is the blower fan cowling hanging down, mine unclipped once and was running into the work piece causing it to skip - but I am sure if it was this you would have noticed. Also is the belt idler on the left hand side properly lubricated - if it was running dry it could intermittently jam.

[Nagalfar]

Hi commander,

thanks for your reply. I don't see anything hanging from my fan, though I already had to resolder it once, so if it's an electrical issue maybe I failed at some point. I lubed the left hand idler and sliding it somewhat afterwards, but the skipping continues non the less. I guess my next step is switching out the cable, although on the outside it seems to be in perfect condition. On some prints the problem is so tiny, maybe half a mm skipped on other prints I'm off by 5 cm by the 5th layer. It's so random I can't see any pattern in it and that's what's most depressing for me.

[Shawn]

I recently had a similar issue crop up with my Rep1. In my case, it
seems to have been a cracked cable in the X-Motor connections. I made a
video about it, and showed how I could get it working better for a short
time: http://youtu.be/VVxo8T7nftg

Replacing the cable was the needed fix in my case. I'm thinking a Rep2
shouldn't need this sort of fix so quick. If so, then EVERYONE will be
seeing this issue in no time. At least in my case I got near a year out
of that cable before the metal fatigue did it in.

[Wingcommander whpthomas]

 It's so random I can't see any pattern in it and that's what's most depressing for me.

 

These are always the hardest things to track down. It must be very frustrating for you. It does seem very likely that it is electrical - we have seen a few of these already - but they were constant so fairly easy to isolate and diagnose. Keep us posted on any new insights you glean - who knows this could be any one of us tomorrow :(

[Weiliang Zhang]

Hi, 

I had the same problem before http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cw5XaVOXAaI I am 100% sure it is the X axis cable. Just get it changed and don't bother putting it back into the motor housing, just let it dangle with some slack, does not affect anything. I have a a few spare cables if you need them but would require soldering. 

[Wingcommander whpthomas]

A while back I pulled out the metal pin that holds these ribbon cables in place and replaced it with a length of zip tie to act as a strain relief. So far so good.

[Pascal POECK]

Ok sorry for my "stupid" question but I had also to remove the metal pin that holds the cable but I can't find a way to replace it...

For now the cable is "free" to move and it's working but I expect some futur problem :D 

So the stupid question : "What is a length of zip tie"? I'm from belgium and my english is not so good as I expected :D

Thank you

[Nagalfar]

My english isn't that good either, but I think zip tie reffers to a cable locker, so he might have swaped his pin with a loose cable locker, but if true a piece of paper would just work as good. I for my part just cut off the loose first cable locker, because it was way to firm and the cable was all crumbled thereunder.

[Wingcommander whpthomas]

Zip tie picture attached.

The purpose of installing the zip tie was to provide strain relief for ribbon cables, because they tend to bend back and forth a lot at the point where they enter the gantry. The zip tie also replaces the metal pin, which some operators reported had rubbed against the ribbon cable causing it to fail.

Original discussion here: https://groups.google.com/d/msg/makerbot/QgTSCWSwFjg/pe9fOZtPJXwJ

Gantry Ribbon Cable Strain Relief - Instructions

1. Turn off your bot and take the right hand cover off your Replicator 2
   
2. Pull out the metal pin that holds the ribbon cables in place (you can put this in the zip loc bag with all your old plunger extruder parts :)
   
3. Cut a medium to large size zip tie so you have about an 80mm length.
   
4. With the smooth side up, use some needle nose pliers to crimp both ends down.
   
5. Light a match and melt each end to remove sharp edges
6. Pull out the ribbons, place the zip tie piece underneath, and insert together, then use a flat end screw driver to gently jam it into place below the ribbon cables.
7. Turn on your bot and run the home script to make sure everything is still good.
8. Replace the cover

All done!

[Pascal POECK]

ok I was 50% sure it was that, now with the picture I'm 100% sure :D

Thank you ;)

[Nagalfar]

Just tested the cable with 1000V, no problems found. I'm no electrican - but I had one here for the measuring - and he said it's highly unlikely that the cable is the culpit. If it isn't a problem with the motor itselt or the connectors, my next best bet would be - supported by the fact that skipping only happens in the rearward third of the plattform -  that something with the gantry might be loose.

After all a damaged motor wouldn't just skip at the last third of the platform and a broken cable would react to manual stress at some point as well. But let's see what makerbot has to say about it.

[Weiliang Zhang]

Try swapping the X and Y cables, if problems persist, try a new cable. Initially we tested the cables, they were OK but once we changed it, the problems are gone. Some of the micro tear only happens when the cable is in a certain position and might not be obvious during testing.

On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 3:54 PM, Nagalfar <han...@gmail.com> wrote:

Just tested the cable with 1000V, no problems found. I'm no electrican - but I had one here for the measuring - and he said it's highly unlikely that the cable is the culpit. If it isn't a problem with the motor itselt or the connectors, my next best bet would be - supported by the fact that skipping only happens in the rearward third of the plattform -  that something with the gantry might be loose.

After all a damaged motor wouldn't just skip at the last third of the platform and a broken cable would react to manual stress at some point as well. But let's see what makerbot has to say about it.

[Shawn]

While my cable was kind of random where it would begin the skipping, it
was consistently in the same spot until I adjusted the wire in the
X-connection on the right (for my Rep1).

Still if you have tried moving the wire and it still happens
consistently in the same area, the wire may not be the issue. When my
motor started going, my first guess was that the x-axis endstop cable
was broken. Maybe try testing that with the same techniques?

Failing that, have you tried different files? Do they exhibit the
problem at the same place? Or at all? Could it just be a bad file?
(I've seen a few of those in the past year as well....)

Another thing that may cause this is if your gantry is not properly
aligned. It is a bit of a long shot, but if it's slightly off, I can
see how it may cause some skipping in certain spots. There is help on
the MBI troubleshooting page for aligning the gantry. But this usually
exhibits by grinding when the head moves to the far right and doesn't
engage the endstop switch.

[Nagalfar]

When I just switched it on an hour ago to check if the voltage test or the lubricating made a difference the x Axis was totally malfunctioning and unable to even reach it's home position. It was nothing but skipping and clattering so badly I was about to burst out in tears. However once I aborted the print and manually moved the printer head to home position and of corse checking the cable again the next print worked fine again.

Since my cable was still hanging freely I could now move it a lot, did so and indeed skipping started, even at the front of the build plate. So yes, defying logic it really seems to be that bitch of a cable!

Unfortunatly all 3 stepper cables run into a single connector, switching it out might get a bit tricky.

[Weiliang Zhang]

Just cut the section off connecting to the X axis cable and resolder a new one. Dont have to put it back to the housing, just keep it hanging. 

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[Gary Tietjen]

Hey guys,

Thanks for all the input, I finally got around to checking the cables and swapping the BotStep chips.  Not much has changed.  Here's a followup video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=asK6b8bl0c4

[Nagalfar]

How did you check the cables? Are you 100% sure it isn't the problem? I was 99% sure and still wrong.

[Gary Tietjen]

I just checked if the cables were properly plugged in which they were.  I have no idea what is actually wrong with the machine, but it is probably due to a fault in one or more cables.

[Bottleworks]

The cable is the problem. The example of the poster above measuring the resistance but not finding any issues is a flawed method of diagnostics. You can't test something unlless it's actively in its failed state. So for Intermittent issues, most testing doesn't work or will mislead you. In this example, you would have to check resistance and be actively flexing the cable and you might see some resistance jumps. But the bottom line is it's the damn cable. Just replace it.

[Weiliang Zhang]

Agreed..damn cable

On 15 Feb 2013 09:00, "Bottleworks" <bottlew...@gmail.com> wrote:

The cable is the problem. The example of the poster above measuring the resistance but not finding any issues is a flawed method of diagnostics. You can't test something unlless it's actively in its failed state. So for Intermittent issues, most testing doesn't work or will mislead you.  In this example, you would have to check resistance and be actively flexing the cable and you might see some resistance jumps.  But the bottom line is it's the damn cable. Just replace it.

[Gary Tietjen]

Hey guys,

Just an update, received my replacement XYZ motor cable and replaced it.. Good as new!  Thanks for all your feedback, you were all very helpful.

[yeeter]

Count me as another one with a faulty X axis cable.  Just went through the problem identification via email with MB support.  I'll get a new cable in a few days.  I'll try the zip tie strain relief when I get the new cable.  Surprising they don't have a permanent corrective action fix for this, just more of the same.  

[Daniël Dillen]

Add me to the list. I've sent a mail to MB support to see what they say. Below is the email I sent them.

Hi guys,

First up, I want to say a big thanks. It’s an incredible machine and it’s done a great job to date.

Now to the point. I’m having some issues with the X Axis stepper motor, specifically the cable leading to it which seems to be shorting or causing it to malfunction. See vid link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nL0F-J__WY

In this case, the motor stopped altogether. Previous instances have resulted in staircase looking prints; see attached photo.

I’d like to think I did my homework before contacting you, so I did a little research on the makerbot google group, which has been a great resource.

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/makerbot/xAXBbd64Lzc/R9rJv2Pj7wYJ

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/makerbot/0reFv3QO42g

To list off the steps I took to check everything before I came to the conclusion I reached.

1. I switched the X and Y stepper motor controllers. Problem remained.

2. I switched the X and Y stepper motors themselves. Problem remained.

3. Removed the pin holding in the cable running to the X axis motor and released the clip holding them together and in place. Problem resolved, but this seems a temporary fix (the cables hang out the side of the machine).

I have had the machine since January and am looking forward to continue running it well into the future. How do we go about resolving the issue? Am I able to get a replacement cable sent out?

As an aside and for your own quality control issues more than anything else. I’ve had issues with heat creep causing prints to fail. I’ve noted two causes to date (other than my own operator fault). The ceramic tape around the hot end has deteriorated fairly quickly. I consider this standard wear over time. The other is the cooling fan. Recently it’s begun to slow down significantly and has a hard time starting up. I’ve replaced it. Sourcing a 24v fan around here has been a tricky endeavour.

Appreciate the time.

Cheers,

Daniel Dillen

Vivenda

http://www.thingiverse.com/Vivenda/