Fwd: BEE-L Digest - 3 Jan 2017 to 4 Jan 2017 (#2017-5)
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lin...@tds.net
Jan 5, 2017, 11:05:00 AM1/5/17
to mad...@googlegroups.com, Richard King, Phillip Raines, Mark Gilberts, Heather Stietz
fyi suggest reading Christina Williams report about varroa and robbing at least----I can report that of 40 I have 12 left and they probably will not make it. Larry
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Subject: BEE-L Digest - 3 Jan 2017 to 4 Jan 2017 (#2017-5)
There are 22 messages totaling 729 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. Reports of High Bee Losses on east coast (19)
2. FDA Guidance on Conducting Residue Studies in Honey
3. winter bees (2)
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Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2017 23:46:14 -0500
From: Jerry Bromenshenk <beere...@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Reports of High Bee Losses on east coast
I'm hearing reports of 70% colony losses in some parts of east coast. What are others hearing? Obviously can't be CCD, Dennis has told us it's gone.
J.J. Bromenshenk
Bee Alert
Missoula, Mt
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Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2017 06:32:39 -0500
From: "E.t. Ash" <gene...@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Reports of High Bee Losses on east coast
a Jerry Bromenshenk snip...
I'm hearing reports of 70% colony losses in some parts of east coast. What are others hearing? Obviously can't be CCD, Dennis has told us it's gone.
my questions..
Where on the east coast? and who is Dennis and do we yet have a good crisp definition of CCD?
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Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2017 10:32:36 -0500
From: Aaron Morris <aaronq...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Reports of High Bee Losses on east coast
My bees did not look good when I did my final OAV treatment and wrapped
for the fall. I would attribute that to heavy swarming during the season
from which many did not recover coupled with poor mite control; too busy
chasing swarms. I would guess my pre-winter losses were around 40% and
suspect by winter's end the will be closer to 70%.
Aaron Morris - thinking bad beekeeper
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Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2017 09:58:28 -0500
From: Debbee Corcoran <catskillho...@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Reports of High Bee Losses on east coast
> J.J. Bromenshenk said:
> I'm hearing reports of 70% colony losses in some parts of east coast. What are others hearing? Obviously can't be CCD, Dennis has told us it's gone.
We are in the western Catskill Mtns of NY:
A local sideliner/commercial beekeeper with a few hundred hives has reported this a few months ago in the Fall. No bees in some hives, plenty of honey and in others a queen with a handful of bees. This happened in all his yards. Another beekeeper closer to me has long langs that overwintered fine last year but 3 of 4 are gone now. Two had no bees, one had a small dead cluster. Plenty of honey. He did not do a post mortem on them yet. He did mite counts ( alchohol wash) in the Fall and had low counts so did not treat. So far mine seem OK, crossing my fingers on AFB not rearing its ugly head again; I couldn't bear to burn any more hives.
Deb Corcoran, Bee Thankful Raw Honey
Proverbs 16:24
Pleasant words are a honeycomb,
sweet to the soul and healing to the bones.
>
>
>
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Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2017 15:09:17 +0000
From: Richard Cryberg <rcry...@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: Reports of High Bee Losses on east coast
In Sept I had 31 colonies in NE Ohio. As of Jan 1 I have 31 colonies. Winter so far has been normal with the lows in single digits a few nites and 40 some inches of snow so far. It is too early for me to have hive deaths. When I have a hive die it is late Feb or March generally. The way they look right now I would not be surprised if there are no deaths this winter. Also would not be surprised at four or five deaths. More than that would be a surprise. Three hives, not mine, within a mile of me are all alive yet. I expect some of them to be dead by spring based on how they were flying in September. They looked pretty weak at that time and had too many crawlers. My son in Michigan (colder than me but a lot less snow) has seen zero deaths so far. I think he has about eight colonies.
I have heard the normal number of reports of people who have even had first year hives die due to what sounds like varroa/virus to me and losses as high as 100%. Those reports are from all over the eastern US it seems, but mainly N of the N Carolina or Tennessee latitude. If you do not have varroa/viruses controlled in August a lot of your hives will die in our winters. If you do not leave adequate stores a lot of hives will die in our winters. The do it natural crowd seems to like dead hives.
Dick
--------------------------------------------
On Tue, 1/3/17, Jerry Bromenshenk <0000001efb57de5...@COMMUNITY.LSOFT.COM> wrote:
Subject: Re: [BEE-L] Reports of High Bee Losses on east coast
To: BE...@COMMUNITY.LSOFT.COM
Date: Tuesday, January 3, 2017, 11:46 PM
I'm hearing reports
of 70% colony losses in some parts of east coast. What are
others hearing? Obviously can't be CCD, Dennis has
told us it's gone.
J.J. Bromenshenk
Bee Alert
Missoula, Mt
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Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2017 12:46:28 +0000
From: Peter Borst <peter...@CORNELL.EDU>
Subject: Re: Reports of High Bee Losses on east coast
> On Jan 3, 2017, at 11:46 PM, Jerry Bromenshenk <0000001efb57de5...@COMMUNITY.LSOFT.COM> wrote:
>
> I'm hearing reports of 70% colony losses in some parts of east coast. What are others hearing?
Haven’t heard from others but half of my home yard is already gone. Oddly, all of them were on the east half of the yard (which doesn’t get morning sun)
PLB
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Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2017 10:42:23 -0500
From: Adam Ritchie <arit...@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Reports of High Bee Losses on east coast
I am not sure if it was the same on the east coast, but we had a mild
winter due to El Nino that led to an earlier spring build up and longer
than normal brood/mite rearing season. Anyone treating solely by the
calendar was likely to have been surprised at just how high mites were by
August/September.
Adam
Barrie, ON
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Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2017 15:39:42 +0000
From: Peter Borst <peter...@CORNELL.EDU>
Subject: Re: Reports of High Bee Losses on east coast
> On Jan 4, 2017, at 9:58 AM, Debbee Corcoran <catskillho...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> No bees in some hives, plenty of honey and in others a queen with a handful of bees.
This is what I am seeing: plenty of honey, dead bees on bottom board, or queen & a hand full
PLB
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Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2017 10:39:17 -0500
From: Cam Bishop <circle...@VERIZON.NET>
Subject: Re: Reports of High Bee Losses on east coast
>I'm hearing reports of 70% colony losses in some parts of east coast. What are others hearing?
Mites were particularly bad this year. Some of my customers have 100% losses already. I lost about 35% of my hives this fall [probably because I was fooling around with the JB700 and didn't get the mite kill I hoped for]. I expect to lose many more this winter. Hope Randy's glycerine/oxalic works next year.
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Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2017 11:06:29 -0500
From: Doug Ladd <doug...@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Reports of High Bee Losses on east coast
Central va. 20 hives. Apivar treatment in August. I fed two rounds of syrup
and now have winter patties on as "insurence" mostly for me to sleep good
at night.
Ever since going away from "other" forms of treatment to apivar, my annual
fall/winter losses went from 30 and 50 percent to less than 10 percent and
in some years zero percent loss. Nothing else changed in my practice.
My opinion only, but successful beekeeping involves three things I tell new
bees, proper inspections, which lead to proper feeding and proper effective
consistent mite treatment. Those are what I see seperates the successful
new beekeeper from the failed new beekeeper. Along with the tenured ones...
loose one of those three and it seems to make for a rough year...
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Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2017 16:13:24 +0000
From: Geo How <gnit...@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: Reports of High Bee Losses on east coast
I'm hearing reports of 70% colony losses in some parts of east coast. What are others hearing? Obviously can't be CCD, Dennis has told us it's gone. ______________________________
Upstate NY, as of two weeks ago I'm sitting at 25% loss. I attribute 2 (of 5 lost) to mites, 1 to a late bear incident and 2 NUC's to just not being big enough going into fall. Aug treatment had very little mite fall, way less than I expected. I typically treat the weekend after Thanksgiving, checked my hives two weeks before and had lost two large hives already (these are the 2 I attribute to mites). Did a vapor treatment of Oxalic a week before thanksgiving had huge mite drops on all hives. Treated again second week of Dec with Oxalic drip but have not checked my drops. Most of mine looked very good while doing the drip.
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Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2017 10:32:34 -0600
From: Kevin Gross <mighty...@CENTURYTEL.NET>
Subject: Re: Reports of High Bee Losses on east coast
>I'm hearing reports of 70% colony losses in some parts of east coast. What are others hearing?
I don’t know if northeast Alabama would be considered east coast or not, but I am at one loss out of 22 colonies so far this winter, all treatment free.
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Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2017 17:22:21 +0000
From: Peter Borst <peter...@CORNELL.EDU>
Subject: Re: Reports of High Bee Losses on east coast
> On Jan 4, 2017, at 11:06 AM, Doug Ladd <doug...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> My opinion only, but successful beekeeping involves three things
My first mentor told me back in 1974, a know nothing beekeeper can do well in a good location, but even an expert will not do well in a poor location.
Clearly, the location where I live sucks for bees, as my outyard loses less than half on average, with less management than the home yard.
PLB
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Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2017 13:25:33 -0600
From: Kevin Gross <mighty...@CENTURYTEL.NET>
Subject: Re: Reports of High Bee Losses on east coast
>a know nothing beekeeper can do well in a good location…
This pretty much describes the situation here Peter.
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Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2017 15:03:46 -0500
From: Bill Greenrose <billgr...@COMCAST.NET>
Subject: FDA Guidance on Conducting Residue Studies in Honey
Hot off the presses from FDA, "Studies to Evaluate the Metabolism and Residue Kinetics of Veterinary Drugs in Food-Producing Species:
Study Design Recommendations for Residue Studies in Honey for Establishing MRLs and Withdrawal Periods"
http://www.fda.gov/ucm/groups/fdagov-public/@fdagov-av-gen/documents/document/ucm535182.pdf
Bill
Claremont, NH
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Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2017 14:07:23 -0700
From: Kristina Williams <kristi...@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Reports of High Bee Losses on east coast
I'm in Boulder, CO, mostly suburban, lots of backyard and hobby
beekeepers. I have 3 hive (plus a TBH) in my backyard, mentor about 50
other beekeepers from Ft. Collins to Denver and manage a small commercial
operation of 50-100 hives for someone else. Of the hives over which I
have direct control, if I get and keep varroa down to a dull roar, I don't
lose more than 10% over winter, last winter none. However, that's getting
harder to do.
This was a tough year for bees in this area because of drought and
heat. Serious robbing started early. Beginning beekeepers are my summer
bread and butter, but many of their hives crash starting late summer. What
I'm pretty sure is happening is the mite bomb phenomenon, actually the mite
*carpet* bomb phenomenon. If I get hives treated in early August and get
mite levels down to threshold (<7), they spike again in 4-6 weeks, like up
to the 30's and 40's. I treat again and they spike again. Meanwhile
there's an odd honey flow when there's no forage around. So I think my
hives are cleaning out the weakened hive in the neighborhood, bringing back
some honey (good) and picking up a lot of varroa (bad) directly and
possibly through refugee drifters from the weak hives. I do alcohol washes
now monthly from July through November. One of the honey apiaries is near
a big crossroads in the county and I can see apiaries on the 3 other
corners. They dwindled in numbers steadily starting in early August from
10 or so to 2 or so. Our mites climbed accordingly. We lost 1/3 of that
apiary.
The typical death scene I'm called to is from August on and consists of
a softball sized bunch of workers and a queen, huddled over some very
scattered capped brood. Sometimes heads have been chewed off pupae. There
aren't many DWV bees. I suspect they've already died. There's no sign of
brood disease. The beekeeper reports that the hive was strong all summer
and made a honey crop. It's those booming hives that are most at risk for
varroa. There's usually a substantial amount of honey, though it may be
getting robbed, giving the appearance of lots of hive activity. If things
were really bad, the hive may abscond. Then there will be odd looking
queen cells pulled by foragers returning to the empty hive. So, sometimes
when people say, "My bees just left!" they really did, but mostly they
crashed. There are varroa on the bottom board. When I use a safety pin to
pull bees of capped cells, there are varroa and/or guanine deposits. There
may be more guanine deposits, but until the hive is in bad shape, the
workers clean those out.
So this year I'm teaching classes specifically on varroa. (I'm
incorporating Randy's mangy dog analogy - thanks.) They'll be free to
anyone in a two mile foraging radius of my hives. I'll try to get them to
all the local bee clubs near me. I now tell all my mentorees to try to
talk to their neighbors about keeping their mite levels down. I'll see how
that goes. I think most beginning beekeepers really want to "help the
bees." But faced with a dead hive, it's so much easier, convenient,
comfortable to blame someone (Monsanto . . .) or something (contrails . . .
) else.
Cheers,
Kristina Williams
Boulder, CO
PS If anyone has ideas on how to reach out to people in a state where
hives aren't registered, please share.
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Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2017 19:44:53 +0000
From: Peter Borst <peter...@CORNELL.EDU>
Subject: Re: Reports of High Bee Losses on east coast
> On Jan 4, 2017, at 12:22 PM, Peter Borst <peter...@cornell.edu> wrote:
>
> as my outyard loses less than half on average
What I meant was: it usually loses half as many as the other yard, not that it loses half the hives in the yard. Although, this year it does appear that half are gone already.
PLB
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Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2017 11:57:26 -0800
From: tahu...@NET-NW.COM
Subject: Re: Reports of High Bee Losses on east coast
> On Jan 4, 2017, at 11:06 AM, Doug Ladd <doug...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> My opinion only, but successful beekeeping involves three things
My first mentor told me back in 1974, a know nothing beekeeper can do well in a good location, but even an expert will not do well in a poor location.
Clearly, the location where I live sucks for bees, as my outyard loses less than half on average, with less management than the home yard.
PL
Peter and All
I spent 35 connective years putting bees on the East side of The Olympic Mountains in Washington State.
I had everything for 70 miles , south to north along the Hood canal.
Elevation from sea level to 4500 feet. I tried north Face verse south face for honey production. I kept records of all the yards. I only had 180 hives. The winner was 2500 feet with a North face. North face did not dry out as fast as the south.
I did not have to face chemicals or other bees that were not mine. The game
has changed . Habitat has changed and we are moving bees much more which is a lot of stress on them. I could write a book on that subject alone.
Best Regards
Roy Nettlebeck
Tahuya River Apiaries
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Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2017 17:36:49 -0500
From: csla...@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Reports of High Bee Losses on east coast
Haven’t heard from others but half of my home yard is already gone. Oddly, all of them were on the east half of the yard (which doesn’t get morning sun)
PLB
I always recommend placing hives where the sun will shine on them on Christmas day!. I once opened a hive (possibly empty but I can't remember) when the sun was very low in the winter evening and, putting hands inside on the sunny and the shaded sides, was amazed at the difference in temperature. The hive was cedar wood. My impression is that winter sunshine, almost horizontally hitting the vertical sides of the hive, raises the temperature enough for the girls on the outside of the cluster to go to the larder and make a round of sandwiches to share with their sisters, thus avoiding isolation starvation.
Chris
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Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2017 08:32:29 +0800
From: Peter <homeste...@WN.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: Reports of High Bee Losses on east coast
Kristina wrote
If anyone has ideas on how to reach out to people in a state where
hives aren't registered, please share.
Share free queen cells...they'll keep in touch with you!
PeterD
In Western Australia where an "unusual" season has led to queen supply
shortages.
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Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2017 02:19:08 +0000
From: "gm_ch...@frontier.com" <gm_ch...@FRONTIER.COM>
Subject: Re: winter bees
I feel that you may have badly misinterpreted the research.
I dont think I misread at all. I think the problem is that research is a point of data, nothing more. Whats missing is how to apply it, which is what I am trying to evaluate. its conclusions are not completely relevant to our needs.
Part of my point of writing it, it to simple organize my thoughts. There are many more questions than answers at this point. Those dead bees, are they summer bees that lived longer than needed from dry sub fed? are they winter bees who died from bad feed? Do i need winter bees if we are only cold for a couple of weeks? how important are winter bees to a hive thats feed continually and keeps brooding? Does keeping brood really slow down a spring pop, or does it depend on the age of the queen?
That was not my interpretation of the research at all!
That was my take away from your work with pollen subs which showed they all dropped to a certain point, regaurdless of sub fed. The take away from that is that a ton of sub in the fall its not as much help as it seems to be, and may be money wasted.
> > We are as a group the only AG group I am aware of who's yields are
> dropping, and success has not improved dramatically over the last decades.
I also find this to be a point of concern. I'm pushing our research
funding organizations to support more practical research on hive management.
I know you are, and appreciate it!
In pondering it in depth, I see the problem, just not how to fix it yet. You have made inroads, but a long ways to go. Juanse post on Sunday was a perfect example. (great post still reading ) But it show the problem. A ton of Science. But real data in there was pretty much crap. Now before you blaze away, ponder my point. All that research to show pesticides are bad or good. All for the most part complete crap. (yes we do need the LD values) BUT thats garbage science. And that work posted shows it clearly. Dozens of data points on both sides the main issues. Garbage for the most part, which is why we need politicians to interpret.Where is the papers that show exposure? those are what matter, thats the real world data to make decisions on, the exposure to pesticide A vs pesticide B and what our are choices? Unfortunately it seems Science only wants to observe a set data point. IMO what we need a bit more of is Engineering, (in no way saying that science is bad) But we need "how do we get there from here?" how do we make it better. These are the questions to head forward. All the research in the world on the "dance " is great. kinda cool, but tells us nothing to move the industry forward. What we need is data on best honey plants for bees, what hybrids (soybeans come to mind) are worthwhile, how do we make better queens? how do we fairly evaluate queens? The list goes on. My point being such as the discussion on wax contaminates, is not that we know 1000ppm is bad for a queen, but what levels in wax are really a problem? I do understand we had to start there, but it seems in science we stand around and applaud the finding, but go no further.
I will take Amy's work last year as an example. some research showed that syn. pyrethroids may actually be attractive to bees, and neonics a slight repellent( some of which is mentioned in the link Juanse sent) But now, interestingly enough that research stopped. This is part of the problem.
I realize from talking to a lot of beekeepers, inquiring minds are very rare. most have their "system" and it works, so how and why doesn't matter. If dad say keep the hive tool in the left pocket to be successful, by gosh it will work for me too. I want to change that.
We as a group need to pose what are the real questions to move the industry forward.
My questions on this feed issue are still new and raw, just stepped into the mess a bit this fall. still forming a real plan to answer the thoughts, but at least getting to the point I can ask the right questions I hope.
Charles
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Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2017 22:26:26 -0500
From: Peter Loring Borst <peterl...@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: winter bees
> Dozens of data points on both sides the main issues. Garbage for the most part, which is why we need politicians to interpret.
Science is garbage but politicians can interpret it for us. Is this really what you are trying to say?
PLB
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End of BEE-L Digest - 3 Jan 2017 to 4 Jan 2017 (#2017-5)
********************************************************
----- Forwarded Message -----
From: "BEE-L automatic digest system" <LIST...@COMMUNITY.LSOFT.COM>
To: BE...@COMMUNITY.LSOFT.COM
Sent: Wednesday, January 4, 2017 11:00:10 PM
Subject: BEE-L Digest - 3 Jan 2017 to 4 Jan 2017 (#2017-5)
There are 22 messages totaling 729 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. Reports of High Bee Losses on east coast (19)
2. FDA Guidance on Conducting Residue Studies in Honey
3. winter bees (2)
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Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2017 23:46:14 -0500
From: Jerry Bromenshenk <beere...@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Reports of High Bee Losses on east coast
I'm hearing reports of 70% colony losses in some parts of east coast. What are others hearing? Obviously can't be CCD, Dennis has told us it's gone.
J.J. Bromenshenk
Bee Alert
Missoula, Mt
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Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2017 06:32:39 -0500
From: "E.t. Ash" <gene...@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Reports of High Bee Losses on east coast
a Jerry Bromenshenk snip...
I'm hearing reports of 70% colony losses in some parts of east coast. What are others hearing? Obviously can't be CCD, Dennis has told us it's gone.
my questions..
Where on the east coast? and who is Dennis and do we yet have a good crisp definition of CCD?
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Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2017 10:32:36 -0500
From: Aaron Morris <aaronq...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Reports of High Bee Losses on east coast
My bees did not look good when I did my final OAV treatment and wrapped
for the fall. I would attribute that to heavy swarming during the season
from which many did not recover coupled with poor mite control; too busy
chasing swarms. I would guess my pre-winter losses were around 40% and
suspect by winter's end the will be closer to 70%.
Aaron Morris - thinking bad beekeeper
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Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2017 09:58:28 -0500
From: Debbee Corcoran <catskillho...@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Reports of High Bee Losses on east coast
> J.J. Bromenshenk said:
> I'm hearing reports of 70% colony losses in some parts of east coast. What are others hearing? Obviously can't be CCD, Dennis has told us it's gone.
We are in the western Catskill Mtns of NY:
A local sideliner/commercial beekeeper with a few hundred hives has reported this a few months ago in the Fall. No bees in some hives, plenty of honey and in others a queen with a handful of bees. This happened in all his yards. Another beekeeper closer to me has long langs that overwintered fine last year but 3 of 4 are gone now. Two had no bees, one had a small dead cluster. Plenty of honey. He did not do a post mortem on them yet. He did mite counts ( alchohol wash) in the Fall and had low counts so did not treat. So far mine seem OK, crossing my fingers on AFB not rearing its ugly head again; I couldn't bear to burn any more hives.
Deb Corcoran, Bee Thankful Raw Honey
Proverbs 16:24
Pleasant words are a honeycomb,
sweet to the soul and healing to the bones.
>
>
>
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Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2017 15:09:17 +0000
From: Richard Cryberg <rcry...@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: Reports of High Bee Losses on east coast
In Sept I had 31 colonies in NE Ohio. As of Jan 1 I have 31 colonies. Winter so far has been normal with the lows in single digits a few nites and 40 some inches of snow so far. It is too early for me to have hive deaths. When I have a hive die it is late Feb or March generally. The way they look right now I would not be surprised if there are no deaths this winter. Also would not be surprised at four or five deaths. More than that would be a surprise. Three hives, not mine, within a mile of me are all alive yet. I expect some of them to be dead by spring based on how they were flying in September. They looked pretty weak at that time and had too many crawlers. My son in Michigan (colder than me but a lot less snow) has seen zero deaths so far. I think he has about eight colonies.
I have heard the normal number of reports of people who have even had first year hives die due to what sounds like varroa/virus to me and losses as high as 100%. Those reports are from all over the eastern US it seems, but mainly N of the N Carolina or Tennessee latitude. If you do not have varroa/viruses controlled in August a lot of your hives will die in our winters. If you do not leave adequate stores a lot of hives will die in our winters. The do it natural crowd seems to like dead hives.
Dick
--------------------------------------------
On Tue, 1/3/17, Jerry Bromenshenk <0000001efb57de5...@COMMUNITY.LSOFT.COM> wrote:
Subject: Re: [BEE-L] Reports of High Bee Losses on east coast
To: BE...@COMMUNITY.LSOFT.COM
Date: Tuesday, January 3, 2017, 11:46 PM
I'm hearing reports
of 70% colony losses in some parts of east coast. What are
others hearing? Obviously can't be CCD, Dennis has
told us it's gone.
J.J. Bromenshenk
Bee Alert
Missoula, Mt
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Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2017 12:46:28 +0000
From: Peter Borst <peter...@CORNELL.EDU>
Subject: Re: Reports of High Bee Losses on east coast
> On Jan 3, 2017, at 11:46 PM, Jerry Bromenshenk <0000001efb57de5...@COMMUNITY.LSOFT.COM> wrote:
>
> I'm hearing reports of 70% colony losses in some parts of east coast. What are others hearing?
Haven’t heard from others but half of my home yard is already gone. Oddly, all of them were on the east half of the yard (which doesn’t get morning sun)
PLB
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Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2017 10:42:23 -0500
From: Adam Ritchie <arit...@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Reports of High Bee Losses on east coast
I am not sure if it was the same on the east coast, but we had a mild
winter due to El Nino that led to an earlier spring build up and longer
than normal brood/mite rearing season. Anyone treating solely by the
calendar was likely to have been surprised at just how high mites were by
August/September.
Adam
Barrie, ON
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Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2017 15:39:42 +0000
From: Peter Borst <peter...@CORNELL.EDU>
Subject: Re: Reports of High Bee Losses on east coast
> On Jan 4, 2017, at 9:58 AM, Debbee Corcoran <catskillho...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> No bees in some hives, plenty of honey and in others a queen with a handful of bees.
This is what I am seeing: plenty of honey, dead bees on bottom board, or queen & a hand full
PLB
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Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2017 10:39:17 -0500
From: Cam Bishop <circle...@VERIZON.NET>
Subject: Re: Reports of High Bee Losses on east coast
>I'm hearing reports of 70% colony losses in some parts of east coast. What are others hearing?
Mites were particularly bad this year. Some of my customers have 100% losses already. I lost about 35% of my hives this fall [probably because I was fooling around with the JB700 and didn't get the mite kill I hoped for]. I expect to lose many more this winter. Hope Randy's glycerine/oxalic works next year.
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Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2017 11:06:29 -0500
From: Doug Ladd <doug...@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Reports of High Bee Losses on east coast
Central va. 20 hives. Apivar treatment in August. I fed two rounds of syrup
and now have winter patties on as "insurence" mostly for me to sleep good
at night.
Ever since going away from "other" forms of treatment to apivar, my annual
fall/winter losses went from 30 and 50 percent to less than 10 percent and
in some years zero percent loss. Nothing else changed in my practice.
My opinion only, but successful beekeeping involves three things I tell new
bees, proper inspections, which lead to proper feeding and proper effective
consistent mite treatment. Those are what I see seperates the successful
new beekeeper from the failed new beekeeper. Along with the tenured ones...
loose one of those three and it seems to make for a rough year...
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Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2017 16:13:24 +0000
From: Geo How <gnit...@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: Reports of High Bee Losses on east coast
I'm hearing reports of 70% colony losses in some parts of east coast. What are others hearing? Obviously can't be CCD, Dennis has told us it's gone. ______________________________
Upstate NY, as of two weeks ago I'm sitting at 25% loss. I attribute 2 (of 5 lost) to mites, 1 to a late bear incident and 2 NUC's to just not being big enough going into fall. Aug treatment had very little mite fall, way less than I expected. I typically treat the weekend after Thanksgiving, checked my hives two weeks before and had lost two large hives already (these are the 2 I attribute to mites). Did a vapor treatment of Oxalic a week before thanksgiving had huge mite drops on all hives. Treated again second week of Dec with Oxalic drip but have not checked my drops. Most of mine looked very good while doing the drip.
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Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2017 10:32:34 -0600
From: Kevin Gross <mighty...@CENTURYTEL.NET>
Subject: Re: Reports of High Bee Losses on east coast
>I'm hearing reports of 70% colony losses in some parts of east coast. What are others hearing?
I don’t know if northeast Alabama would be considered east coast or not, but I am at one loss out of 22 colonies so far this winter, all treatment free.
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Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2017 17:22:21 +0000
From: Peter Borst <peter...@CORNELL.EDU>
Subject: Re: Reports of High Bee Losses on east coast
> On Jan 4, 2017, at 11:06 AM, Doug Ladd <doug...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> My opinion only, but successful beekeeping involves three things
My first mentor told me back in 1974, a know nothing beekeeper can do well in a good location, but even an expert will not do well in a poor location.
Clearly, the location where I live sucks for bees, as my outyard loses less than half on average, with less management than the home yard.
PLB
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Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2017 13:25:33 -0600
From: Kevin Gross <mighty...@CENTURYTEL.NET>
Subject: Re: Reports of High Bee Losses on east coast
>a know nothing beekeeper can do well in a good location…
This pretty much describes the situation here Peter.
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Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2017 15:03:46 -0500
From: Bill Greenrose <billgr...@COMCAST.NET>
Subject: FDA Guidance on Conducting Residue Studies in Honey
Hot off the presses from FDA, "Studies to Evaluate the Metabolism and Residue Kinetics of Veterinary Drugs in Food-Producing Species:
Study Design Recommendations for Residue Studies in Honey for Establishing MRLs and Withdrawal Periods"
http://www.fda.gov/ucm/groups/fdagov-public/@fdagov-av-gen/documents/document/ucm535182.pdf
Bill
Claremont, NH
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Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2017 14:07:23 -0700
From: Kristina Williams <kristi...@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Reports of High Bee Losses on east coast
I'm in Boulder, CO, mostly suburban, lots of backyard and hobby
beekeepers. I have 3 hive (plus a TBH) in my backyard, mentor about 50
other beekeepers from Ft. Collins to Denver and manage a small commercial
operation of 50-100 hives for someone else. Of the hives over which I
have direct control, if I get and keep varroa down to a dull roar, I don't
lose more than 10% over winter, last winter none. However, that's getting
harder to do.
This was a tough year for bees in this area because of drought and
heat. Serious robbing started early. Beginning beekeepers are my summer
bread and butter, but many of their hives crash starting late summer. What
I'm pretty sure is happening is the mite bomb phenomenon, actually the mite
*carpet* bomb phenomenon. If I get hives treated in early August and get
mite levels down to threshold (<7), they spike again in 4-6 weeks, like up
to the 30's and 40's. I treat again and they spike again. Meanwhile
there's an odd honey flow when there's no forage around. So I think my
hives are cleaning out the weakened hive in the neighborhood, bringing back
some honey (good) and picking up a lot of varroa (bad) directly and
possibly through refugee drifters from the weak hives. I do alcohol washes
now monthly from July through November. One of the honey apiaries is near
a big crossroads in the county and I can see apiaries on the 3 other
corners. They dwindled in numbers steadily starting in early August from
10 or so to 2 or so. Our mites climbed accordingly. We lost 1/3 of that
apiary.
The typical death scene I'm called to is from August on and consists of
a softball sized bunch of workers and a queen, huddled over some very
scattered capped brood. Sometimes heads have been chewed off pupae. There
aren't many DWV bees. I suspect they've already died. There's no sign of
brood disease. The beekeeper reports that the hive was strong all summer
and made a honey crop. It's those booming hives that are most at risk for
varroa. There's usually a substantial amount of honey, though it may be
getting robbed, giving the appearance of lots of hive activity. If things
were really bad, the hive may abscond. Then there will be odd looking
queen cells pulled by foragers returning to the empty hive. So, sometimes
when people say, "My bees just left!" they really did, but mostly they
crashed. There are varroa on the bottom board. When I use a safety pin to
pull bees of capped cells, there are varroa and/or guanine deposits. There
may be more guanine deposits, but until the hive is in bad shape, the
workers clean those out.
So this year I'm teaching classes specifically on varroa. (I'm
incorporating Randy's mangy dog analogy - thanks.) They'll be free to
anyone in a two mile foraging radius of my hives. I'll try to get them to
all the local bee clubs near me. I now tell all my mentorees to try to
talk to their neighbors about keeping their mite levels down. I'll see how
that goes. I think most beginning beekeepers really want to "help the
bees." But faced with a dead hive, it's so much easier, convenient,
comfortable to blame someone (Monsanto . . .) or something (contrails . . .
) else.
Cheers,
Kristina Williams
Boulder, CO
PS If anyone has ideas on how to reach out to people in a state where
hives aren't registered, please share.
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Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2017 19:44:53 +0000
From: Peter Borst <peter...@CORNELL.EDU>
Subject: Re: Reports of High Bee Losses on east coast
> On Jan 4, 2017, at 12:22 PM, Peter Borst <peter...@cornell.edu> wrote:
>
> as my outyard loses less than half on average
What I meant was: it usually loses half as many as the other yard, not that it loses half the hives in the yard. Although, this year it does appear that half are gone already.
PLB
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Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2017 11:57:26 -0800
From: tahu...@NET-NW.COM
Subject: Re: Reports of High Bee Losses on east coast
> On Jan 4, 2017, at 11:06 AM, Doug Ladd <doug...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> My opinion only, but successful beekeeping involves three things
My first mentor told me back in 1974, a know nothing beekeeper can do well in a good location, but even an expert will not do well in a poor location.
Clearly, the location where I live sucks for bees, as my outyard loses less than half on average, with less management than the home yard.
PL
Peter and All
I spent 35 connective years putting bees on the East side of The Olympic Mountains in Washington State.
I had everything for 70 miles , south to north along the Hood canal.
Elevation from sea level to 4500 feet. I tried north Face verse south face for honey production. I kept records of all the yards. I only had 180 hives. The winner was 2500 feet with a North face. North face did not dry out as fast as the south.
I did not have to face chemicals or other bees that were not mine. The game
has changed . Habitat has changed and we are moving bees much more which is a lot of stress on them. I could write a book on that subject alone.
Best Regards
Roy Nettlebeck
Tahuya River Apiaries
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Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2017 17:36:49 -0500
From: csla...@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Reports of High Bee Losses on east coast
Haven’t heard from others but half of my home yard is already gone. Oddly, all of them were on the east half of the yard (which doesn’t get morning sun)
PLB
I always recommend placing hives where the sun will shine on them on Christmas day!. I once opened a hive (possibly empty but I can't remember) when the sun was very low in the winter evening and, putting hands inside on the sunny and the shaded sides, was amazed at the difference in temperature. The hive was cedar wood. My impression is that winter sunshine, almost horizontally hitting the vertical sides of the hive, raises the temperature enough for the girls on the outside of the cluster to go to the larder and make a round of sandwiches to share with their sisters, thus avoiding isolation starvation.
Chris
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Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2017 08:32:29 +0800
From: Peter <homeste...@WN.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: Reports of High Bee Losses on east coast
Kristina wrote
If anyone has ideas on how to reach out to people in a state where
hives aren't registered, please share.
Share free queen cells...they'll keep in touch with you!
PeterD
In Western Australia where an "unusual" season has led to queen supply
shortages.
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Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2017 02:19:08 +0000
From: "gm_ch...@frontier.com" <gm_ch...@FRONTIER.COM>
Subject: Re: winter bees
I feel that you may have badly misinterpreted the research.
I dont think I misread at all. I think the problem is that research is a point of data, nothing more. Whats missing is how to apply it, which is what I am trying to evaluate. its conclusions are not completely relevant to our needs.
Part of my point of writing it, it to simple organize my thoughts. There are many more questions than answers at this point. Those dead bees, are they summer bees that lived longer than needed from dry sub fed? are they winter bees who died from bad feed? Do i need winter bees if we are only cold for a couple of weeks? how important are winter bees to a hive thats feed continually and keeps brooding? Does keeping brood really slow down a spring pop, or does it depend on the age of the queen?
That was not my interpretation of the research at all!
That was my take away from your work with pollen subs which showed they all dropped to a certain point, regaurdless of sub fed. The take away from that is that a ton of sub in the fall its not as much help as it seems to be, and may be money wasted.
> > We are as a group the only AG group I am aware of who's yields are
> dropping, and success has not improved dramatically over the last decades.
I also find this to be a point of concern. I'm pushing our research
funding organizations to support more practical research on hive management.
I know you are, and appreciate it!
In pondering it in depth, I see the problem, just not how to fix it yet. You have made inroads, but a long ways to go. Juanse post on Sunday was a perfect example. (great post still reading ) But it show the problem. A ton of Science. But real data in there was pretty much crap. Now before you blaze away, ponder my point. All that research to show pesticides are bad or good. All for the most part complete crap. (yes we do need the LD values) BUT thats garbage science. And that work posted shows it clearly. Dozens of data points on both sides the main issues. Garbage for the most part, which is why we need politicians to interpret.Where is the papers that show exposure? those are what matter, thats the real world data to make decisions on, the exposure to pesticide A vs pesticide B and what our are choices? Unfortunately it seems Science only wants to observe a set data point. IMO what we need a bit more of is Engineering, (in no way saying that science is bad) But we need "how do we get there from here?" how do we make it better. These are the questions to head forward. All the research in the world on the "dance " is great. kinda cool, but tells us nothing to move the industry forward. What we need is data on best honey plants for bees, what hybrids (soybeans come to mind) are worthwhile, how do we make better queens? how do we fairly evaluate queens? The list goes on. My point being such as the discussion on wax contaminates, is not that we know 1000ppm is bad for a queen, but what levels in wax are really a problem? I do understand we had to start there, but it seems in science we stand around and applaud the finding, but go no further.
I will take Amy's work last year as an example. some research showed that syn. pyrethroids may actually be attractive to bees, and neonics a slight repellent( some of which is mentioned in the link Juanse sent) But now, interestingly enough that research stopped. This is part of the problem.
I realize from talking to a lot of beekeepers, inquiring minds are very rare. most have their "system" and it works, so how and why doesn't matter. If dad say keep the hive tool in the left pocket to be successful, by gosh it will work for me too. I want to change that.
We as a group need to pose what are the real questions to move the industry forward.
My questions on this feed issue are still new and raw, just stepped into the mess a bit this fall. still forming a real plan to answer the thoughts, but at least getting to the point I can ask the right questions I hope.
Charles
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Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2017 22:26:26 -0500
From: Peter Loring Borst <peterl...@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: winter bees
> Dozens of data points on both sides the main issues. Garbage for the most part, which is why we need politicians to interpret.
Science is garbage but politicians can interpret it for us. Is this really what you are trying to say?
PLB
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End of BEE-L Digest - 3 Jan 2017 to 4 Jan 2017 (#2017-5)
********************************************************
Michael Gourlie
Jan 5, 2017, 11:34:56 AM1/5/17
to mad...@googlegroups.com
What follows is a recent finding right here at home regarding threats to honeybees livelihood and survival:
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