Newbee buying equipment and looking for some pointers

[Zac Alexander]

Hi Folks-

I'm new to beekeeping and am in the process of ordering up some equipment. Per Paul O.'s suggestion I'm going with two hives of 5 medium supers each. There are a lot of options out there and I was hoping for some recommendations on a couple of questions:

1.) Foundation: Plastic vs. Wax? Wired vs. Unwired?

2.) Bottom Boards: Screened vs. Solid vs. Plastic? 

I imagine that there are differing opinions, but I would appreciate any feedback. Especially about the bottom boards - does it make any difference in terms of survivability?

Thanks!

[Joseph Bessetti]

small cell wax foundation (wired or unwired) on wired frames.

solid bottom boards.

Yeah, you're going to get answers all over the spectrum, and it's not going to be helpful for you at all.  Your best strategy is to find one successful beekeeper that you look up to and whose beekeeping methods match your own personal perspectives and values and try to replicate what they do. 

You can't just randomly pick parts off a shelf.   Beekeeping is a system of components that all have to work together.  

Joe

---

From: mad...@googlegroups.com <mad...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Zac Alexander <zalexa...@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 9:28 PM
To: madbees
Subject: [madbees] Newbee buying equipment and looking for some pointers

 

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "madbees" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to madbees+u...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[Matt H]

1. Foundation. Personally I've had good luck with acorn double waxed plastic. They key to bring successful with any plastic foundation is to have enough wax on it. Advantage it has over wax foundation is it's stronger when extracting, cheaper, and faster to set up. Advantage of wax is the bees often draw it out faster. There's also foundationless.

2. Bottom boards. It seems the jury is still out on what is best. Screened was/is all the rage for integrated pest management, but there's good evidence it doesn't help that much more. It also can cause the queen not to lay in the bottom box. That said, I run all screened bottom boards. I leave them open all winter and have had good luck doing so. A key thing I feel you need to do if you're going to use sbb is to prevent drafts from going up from the bottom. I accomplish this by setting my hives on 4 cinder blocks arranged in a square with the holes up. The mites can fall down, but the blocks prevent drafts.

You can be successful with all the options you presented. A lot comes down to personal choice.

[Oliver Wieben]

I am just a third year beekeeper, so nowhere close the experience of Joe, Matt, or others who might reply, but here are my 2 cents:

I went the 'traditional' route with deep boxes for brood and mediums for honey supers. I certainly see the advantage now for having everything in one format (like all 5 mediums as you decided on) so that you can easily switch frames of brood, honey, and pollen around the same or your other hives. It is more costly though to use all mediums and it could be heavy honey lifting if you were to go all deeps.

I am not a big fan of all plastic frames. They seem 'wobbly' and I much prefer wood frames. I have a mix of plastic and wax foundation frames.  As Matt stated, my bees also drew comb significantly faster on wax foundation compared to plastic foundation. Mounting wired wax foundation took me MUCH longer than plastic foundation though. For deep frames, I have struggled to consistently get straight foundation with wired wax foundation. This was less of an issue with medium frames for me. I did not have any issued with wax foundation being less sturdy during honey extraction, but I only had one season of doing so. 

If you want to get a jump start for your bees, you might want to consider to buy frames with drawn comb (if you can find any). Makes buildup much faster. Also, it is nice to start with straight comb. I think some of the experienced beekeepers sometimes forget how hard it is to get a lot of even frames when you start from all empty frames. With space to expand, bees (at least mine) tend to build out deeper comb for the honey so that you quickly have 'wavy' comb that invades into the adjacent frame, resulting in no or very narrow comb in those adjacent frames. Having some proper comb to start with helps tremendously to get new comb drawn with the proper width as well when you checkerboard.

I also suggest to take Joe's comment to heart regarding trying to replicate a beekeepers approach that matches yours rather than picking and choosing individual components. Best yet, try to look for a mentor who might let you look over his or her shoulder. I was lucky enough that Joe took me under his wings and I learn a ton every time I meet with him in an apiary or at the Great Dane. There is only so much you can learn from books and youtube videos. The DCBA meetings and this webboard are a great resource but nothing beats to be in an apiary with an experienced beekeeper.

Enjoy your first season of beekeeping,

 Oliver

[Paul Zelenski]

Everyone will have different opinions. When you get opinions, be sure to also get the reasons why people do what they do so you can evaluate them. If you don’t understand the reasoning behind the decisions you make, it will be harder to use them in a coherent management strategy.

Of course, finding a mentor or class series that walks you through the steps is the best option.

 

Personally, I like deep brood chambers and medium honey supers. The bees slightly prefer the deeper boxes for brood. Of course, they would prefer solid comb from top to bottom of the hive, but that’s not going to happen. All mediums is completely acceptable and does make some management easier than using different size frames. Especially for a beginner, the all medium approach is probably a good one to start. Honestly, though, I think this is the least important decision you’ll make for the bees, so focus on what is easiest for you.

 

Personally, I agree with Matt on the foundation. I have found the plastic foundation in wood frames to be the easiest. The bees like wax foundation, but it can be a real hassle. It’s harder to put in the frames and if it’s in the hive when it’s hot for too long before they draw it, it can warp and make for very wavy comb. Foundationless is also an option, but harder to extract, and harder to get the bees started with straight comb. The all plastic frames are a bit wobbly, as Oliver says, and also without the wooden bar, the bees are very prone to simply drawing burr comb to connect the frames between boxes. This makes for a hassle when doing inspections. If there is sufficient wax on the plastic foundation, I have not had any problems with the bees drawing it out. Those problems usually come if it is insufficiently waxed.

 

I started with screened bottom boards for IPM reasons, which I believe are not actually very effective any more. But, I have had good luck with them in the same way Matt has, where they help with ventilation in the winter. It is important to minimize drafts as he pointed out. I accidentally bought a bunch of solid bottom boards, though, and am starting to try them out. We’ll see how they do this winter. I did notice A LOT more bearding with solid bottoms that I never had with screened, however. So, I do think the added ventilation can also be helpful in the summer. It’s also a lo easier to move a hive with screened bottom board during the hot months, but that is usually not a concern for most beekeepers.

 

Anyway, keep asking questions, and always try to understand the answers rather than just taking them as instructions to follow.

 

Good luck; it’s a lot of fun.

 

Paul Z

--

[Mary Celley]

For 35 years I have used crimp wired foundation with wooden frames.  Last couple of years I have scattered wood frames with double sided plastic coated foundation.  The bees draw that out nicely.  Usually not a fan of plastic but when extracting on a cool day the foundation does not get thrown out. I always use wood frames.  As for the bottom boards, I find it a crap shoot.  I am selling drawn comb for beginner beekeepers.  It is all chemical free.  I have mediums and deeps.  Also selling brood boxes and mediums.  

[Mary Celley]

Well, horses are shedding after all. Just checked on them.  Usually means spring is early.  I forgot to mention I am selling stainless steel equipment also.  I will start another thread.

On Tuesday, February 13, 2018 at 9:28:30 PM UTC-6, Zac Alexander wrote: