I believe I've heard Dale feeds a small amount of liquid throughout the winter. Interest insites How To Strengthen A Weak Hive for Winter Part 2: Caucasian Queen and Fe...

[Tim Aure]

https://youtu.be/90lUk8RCuBI


Sent from my iPhone

[Drew]

Instead of starting a new thread I'll just write this here:

Am I the only one that would have had dead bees months ago if I hadn't started feeding? I left multiple supers on each hive for winter stores they burnt through that by the Sept, fed 100lbs of sugar in late Oct  to 7 hives and just went to put dry sugar on and all my hives are a lot lighter than I would like. What did you have to feed during this warm weather and what are you stores looking like now?

[jeanne hansen]

 Drew, feeding 100 pounds of sugar to 7 hives is about 15 pound of sugar each.  Realizing that honey is 80 percent sugar, that works out to 18 pounds of sugar honey each - only 3 deep frames (6 mediums.)  I try to feed each of my hives 25 pounds of sugar before winter, in early October, since I take all the honey for myself, and like  you, this year they seemed to be eating it more than storing it.  My hives are lighter than I could want, but the bees are not yet up to the top bars.  When they get there, I will feed sugar as both Paul and Dan recommend.  Both say they have brought bees through the winter on sugar alone, when there was no extra  honey in the hive.

Thanks!
Jeanne Hansen
824 Jacobson Ave
Madison, WI 53714
608-244-5094

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From: Drew <drew...@gmail.com>
To: madbees <mad...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2016 8:51 PM
Subject: [madbees] Re: I believe I've heard Dale feeds a small amount of liquid throughout the winter. Interest insites How To Strengthen A Weak Hive for Winter Part 2: Caucasian Queen and Fe...

Instead of starting a new thread I'll just wright this here:

Am I the only one that would have had dead bees months ago if i hadn't started feeding? I left multiple supers on each hive for winter stores they burnt through that by the Sept, fed 100lbs of sugar in late Oct  to 7 hives and just went to put dry sugar on and all my hives are a lot lighter than I would like. What did you have to feed during this warm weather and what are you stores looking like now?

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[Paul Zelenski]

This year was great for preparing our bees for winter, but did require more effort than most years. We had much longer to feed, treat or combine that we normally would. I kept thinking that it was getting too late for feeding and then we'd get another warm spell. If you stopped tending to your bees in sept like you normally can, they would have definitely eaten through much of their stores. I wish I had given most of my hives one more bucket of food, but I think they're all in decent shape. I did probably go through more than 25# per hive, though. I think all my full size hives got at least two 2 gallon buckets and probably 3-4 for some of them. 

As Jeanne said, I have had hives with less than 2 frames of honey make it through winter on dry sugar, so don't give up hope. They will eat A LOT of sugar, though, so be prepared to give them a ton if they don't have much honey. 

[Drew]

With leaving hundreds of pounds of honey on them and transferring smaller colonies into triple deep nucs the last thing I was expecting was having to feed them. Is that a metric or imperial ton; at aldi's 37¢lb thats just over $100 a hive - HaHa! Seriously though do you have a rough idea of how much you had feed a hive with depleted stores per week or month? 

[Joseph Bessetti]

This sounds rather abnormal to me.  Strong healthy hives that are properly configured shouldn't eat through hundreds of pounds of honey.   

Explain this bit about transferring smaller colonies into triple deep nucs?  Why did you do that?  When did you do that?  How many frames of honey did you put in each nuc then, and how many frames of brood did each hive have? 

I tend to think there's more to this story.  Even the swarms I caught in bait hives in June were heavy with honey when I finally took them down in late September.  I'd guess that mites could have been a problem if the hives were weak in late summer, yet mites don't eat honey.  If the entrances weren't reduced from early August on I'd guess that robbing was a problem, especially if they were weak.  Poor colony health and robbing are the things that most frequently put bees on the verge of starvation in September.

Joe

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From: mad...@googlegroups.com <mad...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Drew <drew...@gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2016 7:48 PM
To: madbees
Subject: Re: [madbees] Re: I believe I've heard Dale feeds a small amount of liquid throughout the winter. Interest insites How To Strengthen A Weak Hive for Winter Part 2: Caucasian Queen and Fe...

 

With leaving hundreds of pounds of honey on them and transferring smaller colonies into triple deep nucs the last thing I was expecting was having to feed them. Is that a metric or imperial ton; at aldi's 37¢lb thats just over $100 a hive - HaHa! Seriously though do you have a rough idea of how much you had feed a hive with depleted stores per week or month? 

--

[Greg V]

This should be true, unless....
... the bee genetics tell them that they are in zone 9 with non-existent winter.
I think.

On Sunday, November 27, 2016 at 9:25:30 PM UTC-6, Joe wrote:

......Strong healthy hives that are properly configured shouldn't eat through hundreds of pounds of honey........

[Drew]

Well Joe It seemed abnormal to me too that's why I put it out there and was wondering if others were experiencing the same. My main motivation for making up nucs was simply because that's what i wanted to experiment overwintering.  The last ones were made up in mid/late aug. They  consisted of deep brood box with  two pollen and 2or3 brood frames and a drawn frame if needed to make 5,  then two 5 frame medium supers of honey. my entrances have been reduced since nectar slowed in august . Mites have stayed around 0-3 per .5cp most the year thankfully. I used the club microscope and did detect some nosema present which would explain why I had crawling bees at one point. The nectar flow was amazing for me too June July and early aug, I'm mostly asking about peoples experience from September to now.

They weren't exactly starving in sept  but extremely gluttonous consuming frames of capped honey when there was little or no nectar forage in the area and stayed that way through feeding. I presume as a result of the warm weather or the act of atrifically feeding not triggering more conservative eating habits . Have you been able to get by without having to feed at all?

[Joseph Bessetti]

Probably epigenetics and regulation of gene expression rather than genetics, but point taken.

However, where most of these bees come from there is an even longer drought/dearth in summer than we experience here in WI.  If they were "pre-programmed" based on their location of origin, then they should know to back off on brood rearing when there's no food coming in, but they don't do that either.  Instead, perhaps what is more important is that these bees are selected (and fed constantly) to rear brood all the time in order to meet the needs of the pollination industry.

Whatever the source of the bees and their "program", I do think season or two here in WI can "re-program" them if they're fortunate enough to survive.  

Joe

---

From: mad...@googlegroups.com <mad...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Greg V <voro...@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, November 28, 2016 10:44 AM

To: madbees
Subject: Re: [madbees] Re: I believe I've heard Dale feeds a small amount of liquid throughout the winter. Interest insites How To Strengthen A Weak Hive for Winter Part 2: Caucasian Queen and Fe...

[Greg V]

Well, the feeding part does not really allow them to "re-program", I think.
They, honestly, should be just left alone and either die or live as-is.
Even so-called mutts are not true mutts until they are left alone and survive at least 2-3 season with no help.

On Monday, November 28, 2016 at 12:55:36 PM UTC-6, Joe wrote:

...........Whatever the source of the bees and their "program", I do think season or two here in WI can "re-program" them if they're fortunate enough to survive.  

[Joseph Bessetti]

It's likely that your decision to make splits in August has influenced this too.  A new queen is generally much more motivated to lay than an older one.  A new queen and lots of young bees in fall is generally reported to improve winter survival, though naturally this would also tend to increase consumption of stores.

I've found the "fall flow" seems to be about a break-even event on average in the couple places I keep hives.  Hives with a strong foraging force can fill some frames from goldenrod bloom but after that they tend to lose a little weight or stay about the same.   Smaller/weaker hives don't fare as well.

I haven't fed at all this year, but I had also planned to try to avoid feeding by making my splits early so they had time to build up and put up some stores during the early flow.   I've also been able to move a lot of surplus from a few really good hives to help some of the others.   We'll see what winter delivers now.

Joe

---

From: mad...@googlegroups.com <mad...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Drew <drew...@gmail.com>

Sent: Monday, November 28, 2016 10:54 AM

To: madbees
Subject: Re: [madbees] Re: I believe I've heard Dale feeds a small amount of liquid throughout the winter. Interest insites How To Strengthen A Weak Hive for Winter Part 2: Caucasian Queen and Fe...

Well Joe It seemed abnormal to me too that's why I put it out there and was wondering if others were experiencing the same. My main motivation for making up nucs was simply because that's what i wanted to experiment overwintering.  The last ones were made up in mid/late aug. They  consisted of deep brood box with  two pollen and 2or3 brood frames and a drawn frame if needed to make 5,  then two 5 frame medium supers of honey. my entrances have been reduced since nectar slowed in august . Mites have stayed around 0-3 per .5cp most the year thankfully. I used the club microscope and did detect some nosema present which would explain why I had crawling bees at one point. The nectar flow was amazing for me too June July and early aug, I'm mostly asking about peoples experience from September to now.

They weren't exactly starving in sept  but extremely gluttonous consuming frames of capped honey when there was little or no nectar forage in the area and stayed that way through feeding. I presume as a result of the warm weather or the act of atrifically feeding not triggering more conservative eating habits . Have you been able to get by without having to feed at all?

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