Trouble with yellow jackets

[P. Davis]

This is the system (see attached PDF) I have had pretty good luck with.  There are some lunch meet traps on the internet, did not try these yet.  Or hardware and garden stores have them to buy.

Best regards,

Peter

[GBle...@aol.com]

What keeps the yellow jackets from going right back out the hole, or do they drown or something?

 

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[P. Davis]

They cant find the exit easy, the walls are slippery, fall into the liquid, death is by drowning.

On Oct 6, 2016 8:48 AM, "GBlettner via madbees" <mad...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

What keeps the yellow jackets from going right back out the hole, or do they drown or something?

 

In a message dated 10/6/2016 8:41:35 A.M. Central Daylight Time, dvx...@gmail.com writes:

This is the system (see attached PDF) I have had pretty good luck with.  There are some lunch meet traps on the internet, did not try these yet.  Or hardware and garden stores have them to buy.

Best regards,

Peter

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[Greg V]

IMHO, leave the poor jackets alone because:

1)they alone not a threat but rather a useful indication of much bigger problem you may have - robbing by bees

2)presence of the jackets (especially entering the front entrance) are a good "litmus" indicator you may have a bigger immediate problem on hand - robbing by bees
the jackets are usually repelled easily by bees UNLESS the bees have a bigger fish to fry - robbing by other bees

3)a jacket nest at the max can dispatch only tens or low hundreds of robbers (that PDF fact about 4-5K of jacket workers per the nest for WI overblown - they are smaller; this fact maybe true for South);
to compare - a good bee nest can dispatch thousands and thousands of robbers in a matter of minutes - now that is some threat;  

4)no need to destroy the jackets; they are also part of the Nature and are needed

5)instead, focus on prevention and stopping of the robbing by the bees; if successful in stopping the bees, the jackets will stay away just as well.

6)finally, thanks to the "jacket litmus indicator", I quickly caught another robbing situation developing just as of yesterday afternoon

(testing a combination of one-bee entrance + anti-robbing screen right now; sure enough, the bee robbers came in bright and early; not a single jacket around yet - too cool for them yet).

the robbing started in a matter of hours in a single afternoon and quickly escalated;
I just could not believe it and was hoping for mass young bee orientation going on;
But the jackets behaving TOO bold and engaging with with the bees at the entrance draws attention really well.
The jackets sense a free meal really well and tag along with the robber bees (but will not attack the healthy hive alone; they are just scavenger followers).

Just keep the jackets around; they are just sly, opportunistic scavengers anyway.
Not the true rogue robbers (which are the bees).
All IMHO.

[BETSY TRUE]

Yellow jackets must have a beneficial function in nature. Any idea what it is?

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[Greg V]

Any scavenger is needed.
Be it a fly, a vulture or a microbe. Or a jacket.
The higher meaning of these is beyond my little mind, but no need to fight an unwinnable war here.

[Mark Evans]

Yellow jackets spend most of the summer foraging on "meat" to feed their larvae.  Although they will be attracted to sugars in fruit (& hence, honey) and they will do some pollination, they are especially aggressive foragers for caterpillars, sawfly larvae and fly larvae.  I encourage people to be grateful for their presence because their absence would be a lot less pleasant. 

---

From: "BETSY TRUE" <bt...@wisc.edu>
To: "Madbees" <mad...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 6, 2016 9:51:11 AM
Subject: Re: [madbees] Trouble with yellow jackets

[Matthew Hennek]

While there are multiple native species of wasp that are lumped into the common name of "yellow jacket", a very high percentage of yellow jackets are the non-native Vespula germanica (German yellow jackets).  They are not part of "as nature intended" and are a non-native insect as you so like to point out with honeybees.  These do rob hives and are not just an opportunistic feeder as you claim.  They build very large nests and have high populations in the late fall. Additionally they're quite aggressive to humans and pets.  While I leave most "wasp" species alone, i have no qualms eradicating German yellow jackets.  

The pop bottle traps work very well (as does finding their nests and burning them).  I will add that in addition to the cocktail listed (which works very well) if you smear a bit of peanut butter on the inside of the bottle, you'll attract them.  

[P. Davis]

In general I agree for most of the year live and let live but these are points that should be considered on an individual basis.

1. The yellow jackets in my yard will try to get past the guard bees even with the excluder set at one or two bee width on strong and healthy hives. they are getting desperate and starving as their usual diet diminishes.

2. It  would not bother them during the rest of the year, like setting out traps early, they don't seem to be a problem earlier, plenty to eat elsewhere.

3. just for the brief time of season this is a good way of diverting them so your hives are not damaged to the point their defenses collapse. 

INHO

[Brad Krantz]

pollination

 

Thanks

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Brad Krantz

U W Provision Company

PO Box 620038

2315 Pleasantview Road

Middleton WI 53562

800-832-0517  x3129

Brad....@uwprovision.com

You run with those that “Run with the Bulls”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1I3A-4pR_vo

 

From: mad...@googlegroups.com [mailto:mad...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of BETSY TRUE
Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2016 9:51 AM
To: Madbees
Subject: Re: [madbees] Trouble with yellow jackets

 

Yellow jackets must have a beneficial function in nature. Any idea what it is?

[Greg V]

The jackets totally are part of the nature.

They made it into N.A. along with people and very successful and are here to stay, like it or not.

The animal migration is just a part of the nature, like it nor not.

North/South America connected 50M years ago and and what happened then?
Anyone cried of invasive species then?  No.

Asia/N. America connected 50K years ago and what happen then?
Invasive species again? No.

Just natural migrations took place because they could

Animal migrations are high speed and volume lately for obvious reasons.
Well, this did happen before many, many times and will happen again - absolutely nothing new here.

Still, part of the nature.

--

[Paul Zelenski]

Yellow jackets can indeed be a problem even without bees robbing your hives. Especially as the temperature drops. The yj are active at cooler temps and can mount a serious attack. I have seen hives under attack from yj when no other bees are robbing. 

They also can be quite a pest on any hummingbird feeders this time of year. Although, it is probably about time to take them down and let the little guys head south. 

If you cut the top of a two liter bottle or any bottle with a funnel shaped top and invert it, it will work even better than the trap shown. The yj will drown and you can fill a bottle in a day. 

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[Paul Zelenski]

Is it part of nature when people moved the animals rather than natural processes? Is it nature when the introduced species cause the natives species to go extinct? You don't see any value in trying to mitigate the damage that is done by invasive species?
We have a different philosophy on this topic, it seems.

> On Oct 6, 2016, at 10:18 AM, Greg V <voro...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> reasons.

[Matthew Hennek]

You're changing your tune Greg...how many posts have you lamented against Honeybees for being non-native?  

A few non-chemical traps to lower the population of very successful species like yellow jackets around a specific area is not going to hurt anything, just like pulling wild parsnip plants for prairie restoration work isn't going to eradicate wild parsnip.  

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[Matthew Hennek]

"If you cut the top of a two liter bottle or any bottle with a funnel shaped top and invert it, it will work even better than the trap shown. The yj will drown and you can fill a bottle in a day. "

Another improvement is to weight the bottom down or somehow prop it up with bricks/rocks.  Otherwise the wind will blow them over, even if half full.  

[BETSY TRUE]

Thanks, Mark, that was what I wanted to know.

[Greg V]

Yes - honey bees are non-native.
Yes - they are here to stay.
Dandelions are non-native as well as clovers are non-native.
But we move along....
What exactly did I change?

All in all, I am saying no need to fight the little things.
I have my second hive under attack as we speak and I am not concerned about few yellow jackets hanging on the fringes.
I AM concerned about that army of honey bees that head butts into the screening right now.

[Tim Aure]

Matt, I agree.

I've watched them aggressively attack honey bees, bite them in half, and carry the abdomen like a milk jug to build up their own brood. They are opportunistic  predators.

I put on entrance reducers, a strong hive is 'ideal' but who lives in a perfect world?   I've also used the bottle traps. Mosquitoes and mice in a hive may also be 'natural' but I'm not 'tolerant' of them either! Nor would I be of anyone who is an 'unwelcomed' guest into my family's home!😐

Sent from my iPhone

[James]

I actually thought this year seemed pretty mild for yellow jackets.  I kinda guage it when I do outside apple processing.  Some years I've actually but the veil and suit on when squeezing juice.  This year it's been a largely yellow jacket-free operation.  I see a few in the hives, but nothing that I'd consider robbing.  But then, every micro-environment is a little different.  But I've seen some of the most enormous spiders under the covers that I've ever seen!  Again, not a problem but they are some monsters.

[Nate Vack]

On Thu, Oct 6, 2016 at 10:02 AM Matthew Hennek <matthew...@gmail.com> wrote:

 

The pop bottle traps work very well (as does finding their nests and burning them).  I will add that in addition to the cocktail listed (which works very well) if you smear a bit of peanut butter on the inside of the bottle, you'll attract them.  

The other thing I've found helps with insect-drowning traps is to put a touch of dish soap in the liquid -- that helps break the surface tension so they'll drown faster, rather than swimming around on the surface of the bait for a while.

How do you burn them? They're underground.

-n 

[Greg V]

All you do is - prevent, prevent , prevent and stop it up-front.

  ........Mosquitoes and mice in a hive may also be 'natural' but I'm not 'tolerant' of them either!

Anyone remember how the Japanese beetle traps don't work?
They don't - I know first hand.
No matter how full of dead insects are your traps, the density of the insects on the area protected by the traps does not go down significantly.
The opposite is true very often because you simply attract the entire vicinity to your trap.
After one year of silly trapping effort, I let the neighbors to the trapping if they care.
Myself invested in a high quality bug netting over the entire raspberry patch.
Now THAT works and protects the berries. Problem solved. No more chasing the beetles.

Same idea with the jackets.
Prevent the robbing and be done with it.
Chasing the jackets around is not productive.
What it is - a "feel-good" thing. This is not a solution.
You kill them and feel good about killing them; yet you do not solve the main problem.

[Matthew Hennek]

"How do you burn them? They're underground."

Shovel + Red Dragon propane torch.  

Good advice with the dish soap!