Mites and Winter Survival
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jeanne hansen
Nov 29, 2015, 10:27:39 AM11/29/15
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There was a very interesting article in a recent journal. For 3 years, a researcher followed 144 hives belonging to a commercial, migratory beekeeper. He measured everything about the hives. The 3 factors that best predicted hive survival were:
1. Amount of pollen collected by the hive during the summer. (The more, the better the hives survived.)
2. Amount of sealed brood in September. (Again, the more, the better.)
3. Varroa mite infestation levels in September. (Here, the less the better.)
I check for mites, but I don't notice the other two. Looks like I had better start noticing!
Thanks!
Jeanne Hansen
824 Jacobson Ave
Madison, WI 53714
608-244-5094
The info is in "American Bee Journal" for De. 2015, article "Bees are what they eat," by Peter Borst.
--------------------------------------------
On Sun, 11/29/15, Claudia Looze <claudi...@gmail.com> wrote:
Subject: [madbees] NEED SUGGESTIONS: Move hive into the pole barn? Or just insulate and leave outside?
To: "madbees" <mad...@googlegroups.com>
Date: Sunday, November 29, 2015, 8:55 AM
I've read some posts that if you can
heat the pole barn to a temp of 45 degrees, that would be
good. My pole barn is NOT heated. Is it worth moving the
bees into the pole barn if it isn't heated? Outside it is
located in a protected spot where it is out of the wind.
Should I just insulate it and leave it at that? It's a
strong hive. I took very little honey, so they have plenty.
I REALLY want a hive to overwinter. In previous years, the
hives were located in a somewhat windy spot, but they were
insulated with pink foam and tar paper, plus the insulated
board on top and there was plenty of ventilation. None of my
hives survived a winter so I moved the hive location to a
more protected spot.
Now this is now my sole focus this year: have Queen
Desdemona and her girls survive!!
Any and all suggestions are needed!
Thanks. - Claudia (between Spring Green and Dodgeville)
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1. Amount of pollen collected by the hive during the summer. (The more, the better the hives survived.)
2. Amount of sealed brood in September. (Again, the more, the better.)
3. Varroa mite infestation levels in September. (Here, the less the better.)
I check for mites, but I don't notice the other two. Looks like I had better start noticing!
Thanks!
Jeanne Hansen
824 Jacobson Ave
Madison, WI 53714
608-244-5094
The info is in "American Bee Journal" for De. 2015, article "Bees are what they eat," by Peter Borst.
--------------------------------------------
On Sun, 11/29/15, Claudia Looze <claudi...@gmail.com> wrote:
Subject: [madbees] NEED SUGGESTIONS: Move hive into the pole barn? Or just insulate and leave outside?
To: "madbees" <mad...@googlegroups.com>
Date: Sunday, November 29, 2015, 8:55 AM
I've read some posts that if you can
heat the pole barn to a temp of 45 degrees, that would be
good. My pole barn is NOT heated. Is it worth moving the
bees into the pole barn if it isn't heated? Outside it is
located in a protected spot where it is out of the wind.
Should I just insulate it and leave it at that? It's a
strong hive. I took very little honey, so they have plenty.
I REALLY want a hive to overwinter. In previous years, the
hives were located in a somewhat windy spot, but they were
insulated with pink foam and tar paper, plus the insulated
board on top and there was plenty of ventilation. None of my
hives survived a winter so I moved the hive location to a
more protected spot.
Now this is now my sole focus this year: have Queen
Desdemona and her girls survive!!
Any and all suggestions are needed!
Thanks. - Claudia (between Spring Green and Dodgeville)
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the
Google Groups "madbees" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails
from it, send an email to madbees+u...@googlegroups.com.
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H. Adam Steinberg
Nov 29, 2015, 11:23:04 AM11/29/15
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Commercial, migratory bee hives are very different from our little local hives. The care and treatment should also be very difference for each of them.
H. Adam Steinberg
7904 Bowman Rd
Lodi, WI 53555
608/592-2366
7904 Bowman Rd
Lodi, WI 53555
608/592-2366
jeanne hansen
Nov 29, 2015, 11:38:34 AM11/29/15
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How can the care of migratory hives be different from hobby hives? The only difference is, they are moved more. What would the difference be in care??
--------------------------------------------
On Sun, 11/29/15, H. Adam Steinberg <h.adam.s...@gmail.com> wrote:
Subject: Re: [madbees] Mites and Winter Survival
To: mad...@googlegroups.com
Date: Sunday, November 29, 2015, 10:22 AM
--------------------------------------------
On Sun, 11/29/15, H. Adam Steinberg <h.adam.s...@gmail.com> wrote:
Subject: Re: [madbees] Mites and Winter Survival
To: mad...@googlegroups.com
Date: Sunday, November 29, 2015, 10:22 AM
H. Adam Steinberg
Nov 29, 2015, 11:48:16 AM11/29/15
to mad...@googlegroups.com
Migratory bees are not exposed to a constant diverse food source. They are exposed to monoculture for long periods of time. The bees are able to eat only one or two different foods for an extended period of time. Though the one or two foods are highly nutritious they are lacking in required diversity.
It’s the same when you raise cows/chicken/pork/turkey in a feedlot (non-native environment) verses open pasture (native environment). The animals are constantly compromised, they still grow and become a marketable animal, but the nutritional value of their meat is considerably altered verses pasture raised animals.
It’s the same when you raise cows/chicken/pork/turkey in a feedlot (non-native environment) verses open pasture (native environment). The animals are constantly compromised, they still grow and become a marketable animal, but the nutritional value of their meat is considerably altered verses pasture raised animals.
Joseph Bessetti
Nov 29, 2015, 11:53:44 AM11/29/15
to mad...@googlegroups.com
Not a bad line of thought to consider Adam. For one, most migratory beekeepers don't overwinter their hives in Wisconsin. Local conditions often call for local solutions. Our local patterns of bloom and dearth and intense robbing pressure in fall are a couple other local issues.
In regard to the article, I do think the importance of pollen is often taken for granted. I saw another paper recently comparing natural pollen to pollen substitute that suggested significant improvements in survival on natural pollen.
Joe
> Subject: Re: [madbees] Mites and Winter Survival
Andrew Olson
Nov 29, 2015, 1:08:34 PM11/29/15
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Migratory hives are constantly exposed to "new variants" of disease and pests. It would seem that these are becoming more than the bees can handle. Remember CCD likely only affected migratory operations.
Migratory hives are not necessarily moved at night or sealed before moving and as a result a great number of foragers are lost in the process. This creates stress by forcing nurse bees to artificially become foragers and is a waste of resources to the hives that need to be replaced with artificial feed, which may not be as good as natural feed sources.
Migratory hives do not develop natural rhythms such as brooding down, hoarding phase, and natural requeening, etc and don't tend to adapt to local environment. In Wisconsin you want bees to adapt, at least I do.
I am not saying that there is anything wrong with these differences, just that it creates a need for different management techniques. An example is that there are no Treatment Free migratory operations and yet there are many successful backyard Treatment Free operations.
Andrew
XPHoney
Migratory hives are not necessarily moved at night or sealed before moving and as a result a great number of foragers are lost in the process. This creates stress by forcing nurse bees to artificially become foragers and is a waste of resources to the hives that need to be replaced with artificial feed, which may not be as good as natural feed sources.
Migratory hives do not develop natural rhythms such as brooding down, hoarding phase, and natural requeening, etc and don't tend to adapt to local environment. In Wisconsin you want bees to adapt, at least I do.
I am not saying that there is anything wrong with these differences, just that it creates a need for different management techniques. An example is that there are no Treatment Free migratory operations and yet there are many successful backyard Treatment Free operations.
Andrew
XPHoney
lin...@tds.net
Nov 29, 2015, 2:21:14 PM11/29/15
to mad...@googlegroups.com
I have seen CCD Like hives in stand alone Commercial hives. Some had 2 queens and few bees left in spring.
Who has more than 3 hives and runs a successful treatment free operation??? Over a 3 year period I would expect most if not all colonies to be dead. I consider a colony that is requeened to be a dead colony for this discussion. As far as adapting to the local environment I am dubious. The genetics of all of our bees is controlled by the government bee lab program and a few queen breeders. It may be true that some local breeders have temporary success but it usually is not long term in breeding queens ( 3years or longer. Most local breeders bring in queens from outside in order to maintain stock. Look at the Russian program as an example. Occasional pockets may appear to vary from this but by in large in a few years they will encounter problems. Looking at the number of beekeepers on a small scale who go out of business in the second or third year is something to watch for. Usually the high cost of packages puts many 2nd and 3rd year beekeepers out of business. One must be prepared to invest in more bees. It is a difficult analysis on what to do and when. What is a plan of operation which deals with all these issues over a 3 to 5 year period?
Most commercial operations like Randy Oliver who with family runs 1000 plus hives splits all live colonies at a certain point each year and requeens all of them per his talk at Medina Ohio
in October 2015. The problems with queen rightness, poor feed and dead colonies seem to be true all over the US. One should expect to have losses. Management will usually stop some losses for a while but it is not solving the problems long term. Several large commercial operations have been reported to have lost over 1/2 of bee colones this last fall usually stated due to mites. At the WAS convention it was suggested to me that the pesticides is the real cause of my bee kills during various discussions etc etc Larry
Who has more than 3 hives and runs a successful treatment free operation??? Over a 3 year period I would expect most if not all colonies to be dead. I consider a colony that is requeened to be a dead colony for this discussion. As far as adapting to the local environment I am dubious. The genetics of all of our bees is controlled by the government bee lab program and a few queen breeders. It may be true that some local breeders have temporary success but it usually is not long term in breeding queens ( 3years or longer. Most local breeders bring in queens from outside in order to maintain stock. Look at the Russian program as an example. Occasional pockets may appear to vary from this but by in large in a few years they will encounter problems. Looking at the number of beekeepers on a small scale who go out of business in the second or third year is something to watch for. Usually the high cost of packages puts many 2nd and 3rd year beekeepers out of business. One must be prepared to invest in more bees. It is a difficult analysis on what to do and when. What is a plan of operation which deals with all these issues over a 3 to 5 year period?
Most commercial operations like Randy Oliver who with family runs 1000 plus hives splits all live colonies at a certain point each year and requeens all of them per his talk at Medina Ohio
in October 2015. The problems with queen rightness, poor feed and dead colonies seem to be true all over the US. One should expect to have losses. Management will usually stop some losses for a while but it is not solving the problems long term. Several large commercial operations have been reported to have lost over 1/2 of bee colones this last fall usually stated due to mites. At the WAS convention it was suggested to me that the pesticides is the real cause of my bee kills during various discussions etc etc Larry
Andrew Olson
Nov 29, 2015, 6:18:05 PM11/29/15
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There are several groups of treatment free keepers on the net. Facebook has a site run by Solomon Parker https://www.facebook.com/groups/treatmentfreebeekeepers/ Bee Source http://www.beesource.com/ also has a section on treatment free that you can find successful TF keepers.
Obviously the two most famous treatment free keepers are Michael Bush 38 years TF (200 hive average) http://www.bushfarms.com/bees.htm and Tim Ives https://www.facebook.com/groups/iveshives.peacebees/ who last I heard was about 700. Ives is also a sugar free operation as well as most in his group.
Most TF keepers are 200 or less as that is about the limit that most can do without going migratory/commercial.
Most TF keepers that I am aware of are very aggressive in bee maintanence or knowledge and thus it is probably not for everyone.
We at XPHoney are small cell and treatment free but this is our first winter. So far we had only one hive die, from our own error, (large hive) and had three small nucs, that were late splits due to swarm cells, that the queens never got going and we combined them. We currently have 26 (most are nucs) hives going into winter so we will see what happens. We started with 8 packages in April.
As far as adapting to local environs, Ives is an excellent example of "Indiana Mutts" that are clearly localized and doing very well. Another example is Lauri Miller https://www.facebook.com/Miller-Compound-HoneyBees-and-Agriculture-256954971040510/?pnref=lhc and https://www.facebook.com/groups/1096320300380337/ whose Mountain line of queens appear to be very well adapted to her area. Anarchy Apiaries is another, though I do not follow him much.
Most bee groups at the state and national level are fully run by commercial and migratory operations, which makes sense, so it is hard to find these TF groups. Again there is nothing wrong with that but this is the reality that I see.
There is no question that the 2nd or 3rd year you have many dropping out but you would expect, and do, see that in most industries.
We were told that if we did not treat, our bees would not make it till winter, I think we will, based on the strength I see in the hives. And that is with the first two packages (April 3rd) from Lee being loaded with mites and mite vectored viruses.
We have also been told that the 2nd year, 2nd winter, 3rd year, 5th year etc. they will all die off. Maybe, but for those who are successful, that did not bear out. Our business plan is set up for 50% losses and for us to be a sustainable apiary. I'm thinking happy thoughts ;) and think we can do it.
The Russian program claims more success than people give them credit for, but they are very secretive so there is room for doubt. We are experimenting with a Russian Apiary in Central WI and those bees seem very well adapted for life in WI (so far). That stock is from Des Moines.
Obviously the two most famous treatment free keepers are Michael Bush 38 years TF (200 hive average) http://www.bushfarms.com/bees.htm and Tim Ives https://www.facebook.com/groups/iveshives.peacebees/ who last I heard was about 700. Ives is also a sugar free operation as well as most in his group.
Most TF keepers are 200 or less as that is about the limit that most can do without going migratory/commercial.
Most TF keepers that I am aware of are very aggressive in bee maintanence or knowledge and thus it is probably not for everyone.
We at XPHoney are small cell and treatment free but this is our first winter. So far we had only one hive die, from our own error, (large hive) and had three small nucs, that were late splits due to swarm cells, that the queens never got going and we combined them. We currently have 26 (most are nucs) hives going into winter so we will see what happens. We started with 8 packages in April.
As far as adapting to local environs, Ives is an excellent example of "Indiana Mutts" that are clearly localized and doing very well. Another example is Lauri Miller https://www.facebook.com/Miller-Compound-HoneyBees-and-Agriculture-256954971040510/?pnref=lhc and https://www.facebook.com/groups/1096320300380337/ whose Mountain line of queens appear to be very well adapted to her area. Anarchy Apiaries is another, though I do not follow him much.
Most bee groups at the state and national level are fully run by commercial and migratory operations, which makes sense, so it is hard to find these TF groups. Again there is nothing wrong with that but this is the reality that I see.
There is no question that the 2nd or 3rd year you have many dropping out but you would expect, and do, see that in most industries.
We were told that if we did not treat, our bees would not make it till winter, I think we will, based on the strength I see in the hives. And that is with the first two packages (April 3rd) from Lee being loaded with mites and mite vectored viruses.
We have also been told that the 2nd year, 2nd winter, 3rd year, 5th year etc. they will all die off. Maybe, but for those who are successful, that did not bear out. Our business plan is set up for 50% losses and for us to be a sustainable apiary. I'm thinking happy thoughts ;) and think we can do it.
The Russian program claims more success than people give them credit for, but they are very secretive so there is room for doubt. We are experimenting with a Russian Apiary in Central WI and those bees seem very well adapted for life in WI (so far). That stock is from Des Moines.
Joseph Bessetti
Nov 29, 2015, 10:15:52 PM11/29/15
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Larry,
You paint a grim picture of the overall state of beekeeping below, regardless of whether a beek treats for mites vigorously or not. You do advocate strongly for regular mite treatments. Yet even with treatment beekeepers still struggle. You mention many challenges below, and you close with a statement about pesticides.
You've been watching this scenario unfold for decades. What do you personally think the long term solution could be?
Joe
lin...@tds.net
Nov 29, 2015, 11:34:26 PM11/29/15
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Andrew keep us all informed on your progress. Larry
lin...@tds.net
Nov 29, 2015, 11:37:14 PM11/29/15
to mad...@googlegroups.com
I have been considering some things but I am not ready to be specific. More on this topic in due time. Larry
From: "Joseph Bessetti" <jbes...@hotmail.com>
To: mad...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2015 9:15:50 PM
Subject: RE: [madbees] Mites and Winter Survival
To: mad...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2015 9:15:50 PM
Subject: RE: [madbees] Mites and Winter Survival
Joseph Bessetti
Jan 26, 2018, 2:14:42 PM1/26/18
to mad...@googlegroups.com
Larry, I ran across this old string in the archives. It's been 2 years. Any new thoughts you're ready to share?
From: mad...@googlegroups.com <mad...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of lin...@tds.net <lin...@tds.net>
Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2015 10:37 PM
Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2015 10:37 PM
lin...@tds.net
Jan 26, 2018, 3:07:35 PM1/26/18
to mad...@googlegroups.com
During the last 2 years my bee management has been more than lacking. The results have been poor in honey production and bee colony survivals.
The following has been learned from associations with several larger beekeepers (over 1000 colonies each year).
Honey production alone is not enough to sustain an operation.
Colonies are failing all the time. Queens fail and the colony dwindles/dies.
It is rolling death in the large operations as they continually requeen and split/merge to keep numbers up. They feed 50 lbs plus of high fructose/sugar feed both spring and fall using in hive feeders and outside barrels.
They buy a lot of queens maybe as high as 1/2 or more of expected hive count over a years time. If packages bought outside that is in addition. Colony's overwintered in Wi the last few years have a 50% or greater die off.
2 to 3 pollen patties (dadant size) are fed all colony's in the spring. Mite meds are done several times in the spring. After honey is removed during summer 2 to 3 pollen patties are fed. The mite treatments are done again and again. If patties are fed early fall (in 2017) populations of the surviving colony's are generally higher than when patties fed later due to honey taken off later in summer. In other words honey taken off early and pollen fed resulted in higher colony bee populations by the fall. For almonds the colony's need 5 to 9 frames of brood and the bee population must be abundant. Mergers to reach these levels are made. It is necessary to have strong colonies to go to almonds.
Sent: Friday, January 26, 2018 1:14:39 PM
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