Need bees

[kac...@gmail.com]

Despite my best efforts, starting a new package in record cold with no comb or other resources failed for me. Two packages frozen/starved. I have no bees for the second year in a row. It is depressing, not to mention expensive. Have a top bar hive, so a nuc is out for me unless someone knows how to move them in. If anybody ordered a package and no longer needs it PLEASE call me. Thanks. Kathy Kruk 920-220-9088

[Mary Celley]

Who did you buy your bees from?  Hopefully, they gave you some advice as how to care for them?!

[kac...@gmail.com]

Had lots of advise from good sources. Just looking for new ones.

Kathy Kruk

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[Paul Zelenski]

Last week was tough for a new package. Especially in a TBH. It's had to feed them well in there, especially when it's cold. What was is you hive?

[kac...@gmail.com]

Yep, for it to drop down below freezing the day after my install when they had no comb to hide in. Couldn't have picked a worse time. Phil Chandler was on line trying to talk quite a few of us through it, but I  think my queen was already too damaged.

Kathy Kruk

[Mary Celley]

I cancelled my order last week for my customers  because if you have no drawn comb and are putting them on plastic foundation they do not stand a chance.  I find it sad that sellers put the bees at risk and people trying to start out on a new hobby.  Just my 2 cents worth.

On Sunday, April 26, 2015 at 5:52:34 PM UTC-5, kac...@gmail.com wrote:

[James]

Isn't that just the nature of agriculture?  You try to cheat the seasons:  Sometimes you win, sometimes not.   But for this person, probably the best solution is to look for top bar specific nucs (they are out there) or check out the many websites for splicing a Langstroth nuc into a TB system.  Or just set up a Langstroth hive and overtime (like years) use that to generate splits and "seed" the top bar.  Another choice is to try and get a hold of a swarm.  They are notorious for their comb building ability.  Might be a way to get that comb you need for the future.  Good luck.

[John B]

Did Kathy's bees die because of the cold weather or because they did not have feed? I think because no feed. A cluster or bees can form an outer mantel of bees and stay warm. They don't need comb. They do need fuel for the furnace though.

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[Paul Zelenski]

I agree. It's a combination. They can cluster without comb, but they need feed. If they are clusters they need feed available to the cluster. This is hard to provide in a TBH.

It is also possible that it was too cold for them to get formed into a cluster after dumping them in the hive. Especially in a TBH where they don't have the frame to climb up. 

Imo TBHs can definitely work, but they do take a bit more effort and awareness. There is a reason langs are the accepted method. 

[Matthew Hennek]

This reminds me of a quote by Einstein:
"Insanity: doing the Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

Getting yet another package is probably not the best route if starting from bare top bars. Perhaps there is a tbh owner you could buy a few old combs from to at least give them something to start with. Yes, there is a risk of disease transmission but what you're doing right now is not working.

[John B]

I don't think lack of comb was the problem. I think it was lack of feed. Kathy, Just curious.. what did your supplier tell you as he was trying to walk you through it?

[kac...@gmail.com]

TBHs are started in bare hives, just not when it freezes the second night in an otherwise empty box. Hate mother nature, don't hate the hive. I did not see the freeze coming, my fault.

Kathy Kruk

[kac...@gmail.com]

It happened so fast. I didn't expect a freeze. Queens were still hung in cages, so no real ability for her to be included in much of a cluster. It was simply too early to chance bees in an empty TBH. Lesson learned. I was advised by Phil Chandler, a leading TBH beekeeper, to feed sugar on top and add a quilt and stay out of there. Joe B. offered me comb which in hindsight I should have taken, but went with the stay out of there strategy. 
Kathy Kruk

[John B]

Comb doesn't keep bees warm. Bees don't crawl into comb cells to stay warm. They crawl into comb cells to get closer to other bees (so they can stay warm). Without comb they can simply get closer to other bees. Without comb they can also exchange duties from mantel bee to cluster bee easier (so the mantel bees can re-warm themselves).

[Randy Deering]

This may be a total "rookie" question, but has anyone ever tried using a seed starting mat in extreme cold conditions to help with heat so the bees don't expend as much energy to stay warm?

Randy

Randy

[Joseph Bessetti]

No, but it's typically how it is done.  There are very few Top Bar nucleus hives for sale each year. 
 
There's not a lot of drawn comb out there for sale either, and there's a lot of active discouragement regarding using comb obtained from another beekeeper for fear of "disease and pests".
 
 I think anyone who loses a package or a hive for any reason feels plenty enough bad about it without having it rubbed in.  This discussion is quickly becoming less than productive.
 
It's a shame it happened.  There are a dozen things I'm sure she would have done different now.  There are even things that I would do different now based on this experience being shared with me.   Let's not criticize too much lest we want people to stop sharing.
 
Joe
 
 

> Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2015 14:42:05 -0700
> From: matthew...@gmail.com
> To: mad...@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: [madbees] Need bees
>
> There's no rule that TBHs HAVE to be started on bare bars just like there no rule that langstroff keepers HAVE to start with bare foundation.
>
> I don't hate TBHs hives nor do I blame weather for issues that could've been prevented. The weather is not unusually cold for this time of the year. The last frost free date is usually late April to early May.
>
> Some may disagree but I see TBHs as Porsches...aspire to drive them but don't learn to drive with one unless you have deep deep pockets.

[kac...@gmail.com]

Thanks all, looks like I can try again. Thanks for your offers and insight.

[Martin W.]

Hello Kathy.  Glad you found some bees.  For anyone else looking, here's a link to a company that was on this site a few weeks ago.  Looks like they have some packages left for May delivery.  http://www.russianbee.com/store/

Martin

[Dale Marsden]

Another solution is to start the hive in a darkened garage, out of the cold. They do much better at 45 degrees F.  and
still don't fly all over the place the first day or two.

 Dale

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From: Matthew Hennek <matthew...@gmail.com>
To: mad...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Monday, April 27, 2015 4:42 PM

Subject: Re: [madbees] Need bees

There's no rule that TBHs HAVE to be started on bare bars just like there no rule that langstroff keepers HAVE to start with bare foundation.

I don't hate TBHs hives nor do I blame weather for issues that could've been prevented.  The weather is not unusually cold for this time of the year. The last frost free date is usually late April to early May.

Some may disagree but I see TBHs as Porsches...aspire to drive them but don't learn to drive with one unless you have deep deep pockets.

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