Brood Minder

[rfmorris]

I've come to several meetings, (missed the last one darnit) and mentioned this project of wirelessly transmitting hive temperature & humidity to a smartphone.  Well, it's coming to fruition and I would love any feedback that you guys would be willing to give on the product and website.

Personally, I've wanted this for years and finally decided to make it.  I know that it doesn't replace good winter practices and that I wouldn't need it if I were a better beekeeper.  Still... peace of mind, something to do while waiting for spring...

In particular, I'm trying to figure out what the retail price should be.  I've designed it very inexpensively, but without huge volumes it can't be a cheap as I wish it could be.  I'd appreciate any opinions on this.

The site is broodminder.com.  You can send comments to in...@broodminder.com.  

Thanks much, see you next Tuesday.

Rich Morris

[William Palmer]

Hi Rich;  The bees regulate temperature and moisture.

   A good strong, healthy hive, that has lots of food will survive the winter. The biggest problem we face is the MITES.  Mites are a parasite  that penetrates the bee, leaving it susceptible to other diseases.  This weakens the colony leading to its demise.

   The best thing we as beekeepers can do is get those mites under control.  Feeding bees should start soon after you take off the honey.  A pollen patty and sugar water will build up stores. The hive will take what it needs.

  That building material HOMASTAT will absorb moisture. (Menards) Put it above the inner cover.

  Mite control  is our biggest challenge

    Good Luck   William Palmer     East Troy Honey.

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[BETSY TRUE]

WOW Just WOW.

Sent from my iPad

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[Dale Marsden]

HI Rich, 

This is great, I'd love to try these out on several hives this winter. A good trial with several hives should help to dertermine if the data provided can help understand what condition the hive is in.  If the price is right I'll be glad to buys into this and give you some feedback.  I run 50 hives a year and keep about half over winter. 

Dale

Marsden's pure Honey LLC

McFarland

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From: rfmorris <ri...@walnutbank.com>
To: madbees <mad...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2015 7:10 AM
Subject: [madbees] Brood Minder

[BETSY TRUE]

I would do this too except that I don't have a smart phone.

Sent from my iPad

[Paul Zelenski]

I think it is very intriguing and will be great for my curiosity. I'm not entirely sure what type of intervention you could do if you get numbers that don't look good, so I'm not confident it will actually help with winter survival. Maybe it will help in the long term by increasing our understanding. 

Also, the bees warm the cluster, not the hive. So, if the bee minder is not in the cluster it will not be accurate. But, being at the top of the hive should show some warmth above the outside temps even if the bees are clustered below. Once they move to the top and cluster around the device, it will get even more useful/interesting. It might be even more interesting to place a few throughout a hive to see where they heat is (and make some guesses about the cluster). 

If you're looking for testers, let me know. If it's cheap, I may buy in like Dale. 

[Matthew Hennek]

Very interesting.  While like Paul said it may not yield exact cluster temperatures, but it could yield relative temperature differences and swings (especially if paired with a "Brood Minder" that is placed on the outside of the hive).  

I think the most interesting part of it isn't temperature, it's humidity.  How does the relative humidity fluctuate and impact survivability?  How does late feeding impact hive humidity?  How do different hive configurations impact humidity?

On a side note, as a battery chemist working for a large battery company in Dane county (take a wild guess) I would recommend that you spend the extra money and go with BR2032 cells not CR2032 cells.  The voltage and capacity is relatively the same, however BR cells have improved high temperature stability vs CR.  Additionally, I would recommend you stick with either Panasonic or Rayovac 2032's (BR or CR).  

Depending of course on the cost and iPhone App compatibility, I would also be interested in testing them out.  I think it would be interesting to see whether there's a detectable difference based on hive configuration (i.e. all mediums or deeps or even nucs) or whether or not one insulates the hive.  

As a side note, I know you are still in the prototype phase, but make sure you take durability into account.  If these are wrapped in paper, the bee's are going to chew it up.  They'll then propolize the circuit board.  

~Matt

On Tuesday, September 29, 2015 at 9:42:35 AM UTC-5, Paul Zelenski wrote:

I think it is very intriguing and will be great for my curiosity. I'm not entirely sure what type of intervention you could do if you get numbers that don't look good, so I'm not confident it will actually help with winter survival. Maybe it will help in the long term by increasing our understanding. 

Also, the bees warm the cluster, not the hive. So, if the bee minder is not in the cluster it will not be accurate. But, being at the top of the hive should show some warmth above the outside temps even if the bees are clustered below. Once they move to the top and cluster around the device, it will get even more useful/interesting. It might be even more interesting to place a few throughout a hive to see where they heat is (and make some guesses about the cluster). 

If you're looking for testers, let me know. If it's cheap, I may buy in like Dale. 

On Sep 29, 2015, at 9:14 AM, BETSY TRUE <bt...@wisc.edu> wrote:

I would do this too except that I don't have a smart phone.

Sent from my iPad

On Sep 29, 2015, at 9:09 AM, 'Dale Marsden' via madbees <mad...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

HI Rich, 

This is great, I'd love to try these out on several hives this winter. A good trial with several hives should help to dertermine if the data provided can help understand what condition the hive is in.  If the price is right I'll be glad to buys into this and give you some feedback.  I run 50 hives a year and keep about half over winter. 

Dale

Marsden's pure Honey LLC

McFarland

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From: rfmorris <ri...@walnutbank.com>
To: madbees <mad...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2015 7:10 AM
Subject: [madbees] Brood Minder

I've come to several meetings, (missed the last one darnit) and mentioned this project of wirelessly transmitting hive temperature & humidity to a smartphone.  Well, it's coming to fruition and I would love any feedback that you guys would be willing to give on the product and website.

Personally, I've wanted this for years and finally decided to make it.  I know that it doesn't replace good winter practices and that I wouldn't need it if I were a better beekeeper.  Still... peace of mind, something to do while waiting for spring...

In particular, I'm trying to figure out what the retail price should be.  I've designed it very inexpensively, but without huge volumes it can't be a cheap as I wish it could be.  I'd appreciate any opinions on this.

The site is broodminder.com.  You can send comments to i...@broodminder.com.  

Thanks much, see you next Tuesday.

Rich Morris

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[rfmorris]

Thanks for all the feedback so far, I appreciate it.  A couple of notes:

• I'll be happy to provide any members of MadBees with devices at cost in return for feedback.  Right now that is something south of $30 and will be lower if I can stir up enough interest to get the volume significantly higher.
• I'm taking a very simple approach to get the ball rolling.  Time is short and I want to ship real devices by Nov 1.  So, although there are many other things to look at, right now it is only temperature and humidity.
• It does not take the place of good beekeeping.  It only takes care of us worriers.
• to Matt... thanks I appreciate the battery feedback.  I chose CR because of increased energy storage.  I figured the temperature would remain relatively consistent inside the hive, (unless your bees are dead).  I'm still open to the suggestion though.
• and finally... it seems like a good reason to get a smartphone!  ;-)

Cheers

[sbjoh...@aol.com]

Rich -

I think your idea is excellent!  I would buy one of your units and give it a try.  I am quite willing to provide feedback, and as an experienced electronics hobbyist and professional I could be helpful along the way if you'd like.

I have always been interested in the environment inside the hive. I've encountered critics who say the bees will take care of themselves by clustering, and yet if my bees die out in the winter I've also told I am a bad beekeeper. There are many opinions... sigh.

I feel confident the stress on the bees in the cluster varies by the conditions that the cluster must inhabit.  Disease or unknown factors weakening the colony might be the dominant factors in survival, but the fact that the bees go into a cluster implies they are doing something special to endure the winter conditions.  Following this logic many beekeepers attempt to make it easier on their bees in the winter by protecting the hives against wind, providing a southern exposure, trying to combat excessive moisture. 

Last winter I greatly enhanced my ventilation and moisture control efforts, and took it a step farther and actually provided a bit of warmth to the bottom of my hives (low-power heating elements controlled by outside temperature).  It didn't help my bees survive but was an interesting and inexpensive project. 

Being able to monitor conditions inside the hive would provide useful data - thanks for working on this concept.

Steve

sbjoh...@aol.com
http://www.wd8das.net/
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[Joseph Bessetti]

The reference below is a must-read for anyone interested in temperatures inside the hive during winter.
 
The Thermology of Wintering Honey Bee Colonies, USDA Technical Bulletin 1429
Here's a link to a pdf download:  http://naldc.nal.usda.gov/download/CAT72345678/PDF
 
Because temperatures are not uniform inside the hive, where a monitoring device is placed and where the bees cluster relative to it will influence the data greatly.   
 
I think the placement that would make the most sense to me would be top center of the top box.   This placement would/should/could enable:
1. detection of humidity and temperature conditions that might contribute to condensation and dripping onto the cluster
2. identification of when the cluster has worked its way up to the top of the upper box of stores
3. detection of air rising up from the cluster that is warmer than the outside air, an indication that the hive is alive and well
 
There are a ton of interesting experiments that this device could contribute to. 
 
Joe
 
 

 

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From: paulze...@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [madbees] Brood Minder
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2015 09:42:29 -0500
To: mad...@googlegroups.com

[rfmorris]

Thanks, Rich Schneider at Cap Bee Supply had also suggested it so I included it as a link on my FAQ page.  I agree, it's an old but valuable paper, particularly for us in Madison where the experiments were run.

The site is broodminder.com.  You can send comments to i...@broodminder.com.  

Thanks much, see you next Tuesday.

Rich Morris

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