Need for bees, or a queen.

[prago...@gmail.com]

Now that Tom captured the swarm in my backyard, I dove into my weak hive and discovered what appear to be drone cells, no eggs, and probably lots of drones.  So I am in need of a swarm to catch, or a queen(now that I helped Tom with the swarm this morning, I'm an expert right?).  Any leads on either solution would be great, 212-0490.

--Pete

[Matt H]

My money is that you had a huge mite load and/or a failing queen so the hive absconded. I would either try to work something out with Tom (bring the swarm back after a coupple days) or close up the hive for the year. It's hard to say though without seeing the hive. I have a nuc I could sell you but it would need a lot of bees to be combined with to even have a small chance of survival.

[prago...@gmail.com]

Matt, mites could definitely be the problem, haven't treated yet this year, waiting till I pull honey(probably tomorrow). I don't think bees swarmed from this hive, it's been dwindling for a few weeks, I just haven't had a chance to take it apart.  Toms swarm is his, it was a good learning experience for me.  I think you're right, best outcome for this hive is start over next year!

[Joseph Bessetti]

Pete,

Was the swarm not from one of your own hives?   A hive that just swarmed would have multiple queen cells due to emerge in the next week, so pulling a couple frames with some brood and a couple queen cells would give a weak hive, even one with laying workers, a chance to come back.   If the swarm wasn't your own, and you only have the 1 weak hive, I'd have to wonder if that swarm was intending to move in with your weak hive.

If you have no open brood and no capped brood then I'd look closely for evidence of laying workers.  If you already have laying workers, it's late enough in the season that you might just consider it a lost cause and harvest any honey that they've produced for yourself.   

If there's still some capped brood in the hive, then perhaps you're not queenless at all.  And with capped brood you're less likely to have laying workers. 

There are queens to be had, but what you want to invest may depend on just how difficult rescuing your colony is going to be.  

Joe

---

From: mad...@googlegroups.com <mad...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of prago...@gmail.com <prago...@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, August 7, 2017 5:59 PM
To: madbees
Subject: [madbees] Need for bees, or a queen.

 

Now that Tom captured the swarm in my backyard, I dove into my weak hive and discovered what appear to be drone cells, no eggs, and probably lots of drones.  So I am in need of a swarm to catch, or a queen(now that I helped Tom with the swarm this morning, I'm an expert right?).  Any leads on either solution would be great, 212-0490.

--Pete

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[Joseph Bessetti]

I think an absconding hive would have left brood behind.   Mites should be evident in that brood.   I also don't think a hive with a failing queen would bother to abscond.  I think they would try to supersede.  The literature that I've read on varroa collapse/parasitic mite syndrome hasn't suggest elevated incidence of absconding due to mites.  Have you read something that supports that? 

It's not my intent to trash your suggestions.  I've seen a lot of weird stuff, and we're all guessing here with little information.  An inspection would be necessary to turn any of our speculation into anything solid.  

Joe

---

From: mad...@googlegroups.com <mtM

To: madbees
Subject: [madbees] Need for bees, or a queen.

My money is that you had a huge mite load and/or a failing queen so the hive absconded. I would either try to work something out with Tom (bring the swarm back after a coupple days) or close up the hive for the year.  It's hard to say though without seeing the hive. I have a nuc I could sell you but it would need a lot of bees to be combined with to even have a small chance of survival.

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[Paul Zelenski]

Pete, I think you left me a message today. I'll try to call tomorrow, or feel free to give me another shot. 

On Aug 7, 2017, at 5:59 PM, prago...@gmail.com wrote:

Now that Tom captured the swarm in my backyard, I dove into my weak hive and discovered what appear to be drone cells, no eggs, and probably lots of drones.  So I am in need of a swarm to catch, or a queen(now that I helped Tom with the swarm this morning, I'm an expert right?).  Any leads on either solution would be great, 212-0490.

--Pete

--

[prago...@gmail.com]

Hi Joe,

No the swarm did not come from my hives, there's still about the same # of bees in the weak hive (1 of 3, the other 2 are going strong).  There is some capped brood in the weak hive, but I think they are drone cells, scattered around and bulging out a little.  No eggs visible, and lots of nectar in the brood box frames, no capped honey in brood box (1 super is about half capped).  This is the second year for this hive, so a new queen seems a likely need at the least, but I am am new enough at this bee-keeping stuff that I'm not totally sure what course of action would be best for this hive.  

I'm harvesting 3 supers from my other 2 hives today, and treating with mite-away Q strips after that, do you think it might be worth treating the weak hive and then reassessing the condition of the hive?

[Matt H]

Ah, I was under the belief that the swarm was from your hive.  My mistake.  

If the only brood you have is capped drones then you've been queenless for ~3weeks. 

You could:

1. Wait and see if they are raising a new queen...likely 1-2 more weeks before you'll see eggs.

2. Put a frame of eggs in there from one of your other hives and see if they start raising a new queen

3. Put a new queen in there

4. Combine with one of your other hives

5. Shake out the bees extract the honey and close it up for the season

Personally, I'd try #2, wait a couple days to see if they start raising a new queen.  If not then go to #1.  If they do, then I'd cut out the cells and go to either #3 (add a queen) or #4, depending on whether the hive is weak because of disease or due to queenlessness. 

If one assumes you have a new queen that's not laying yet, I don't know whether or not treating with MAQS during this stage is a good idea or not.  I've done it once and things went fine (queen started laying just fine), but that's a sample size of 1.  

~Matt

[Joseph Bessetti]

drones cells "scattered around" is a little concerning.  Do you mean scattered around only in drone comb, or are you seeing domed drone cells in worker comb too?  Drone brood in worker comb could be evidence of the nature of the queen's failure.  Or, it could be evidence of laying workers and you didn't notice eggs scattered here and there.  Both of these scenarios would make it much less likely that there's a replacement queen on the way.  If you have capped drones from laying workers your best option is probably to shut it down for the season.

Joe

---

From: mad...@googlegroups.com <mad...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of prago...@gmail.com <prago...@gmail.com>

Sent: Tuesday, August 8, 2017 10:46 AM
To: madbees
Subject: Re: [madbees] Need for bees, or a queen.

 

[prago...@gmail.com]

Joe and Matt,

I talked with Paul on the phone today, he was very helpful (hive unseen), and he also thinks moving a few frames with eggs from my strong hives is a good plan, also searching for a queen and squishing her.  The bulged drone brood cells are scattered around the frames otherwise filled with nectar, no capped honey, didn't see eggs but I only looked at 2 or 3 frames per box, (now that I took out 66lbs of honey from my other hives, I'm diving into this one tomorrow).  Thanks to both of you guys for your tips, I've learned as much about this hobby in the last few days, as the last year!

--Pete