proposed beekeeping ordinance for Dane County

[BETSY TRUE]

This is coming up in a meeting of the Zoning commission. 4 pm, Dec 19, City County Bldg.

Did we help to draft this?

https://dane.legistar.com/View.ashx?M=F&ID=4823475&GUID=28578D39-3417-45D0-B7D4-0EF0075D0B85

https://dane.legistar.com/DepartmentDetail.aspx?ID=32863&GUID=E914FF79-13A7-4B4C-AEF9-8761073B83E2

[harold steinberg]

Having worked directly with city and town governance for 20 years… I think it’s a mistake to include “covered and fenced enclosures" (chicken run, rabbit hutch, dog kennels, etc.) with anything related to beekeeping. IT WILL BE INTERPRETED by many citizens as - all bee keeping operations need to be fenced and enclosed despite the wording saying otherwise. The word “or” will be lost in all conversations when a citizen is “upset” over someone’s hive(s).

The bee keeping ordinance should only apply to bee keeping and not even mention items from other ordinances.

My two cents...

1. (b)  Location of covered and fenced enclosures and hives.

   1. Covered and fenced enclosures or hives shall be within the rear or side yard.

   2. Covered and fenced enclosures or hives

      shall not be closer than 25 feet to any

      residential structure on an adjacent lot.

   3. Covered and fenced enclosures or hives

      shall not be located closer than 75 feet from the ordinary high water mark of any lake, river, or stream.

       

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[Matt H]

I sure hope not and we need to get all over this because it is HIGHLY restrictive to the vast number of members of this club.  In a nutshell it says many if not most people in this club can only have 1-2 hives (1 hive per 0.23 acres).  It also stipulates that your hives can't be closer than 75 feet from a lake/river/stream; do they think there is going to be runoff from your hives?! 

"Domestic beekeeping definition Proposed ordinance = keeping of 1 hive for each 10,000 sq ft of lot or parcel area, or less"

Zoning districts this applies to is basically everyone except those of us who are zoned Ag.

I might be able to make the meeting (12/19/16, 4pm) but suggest all who can please do attend.    

[BETSY TRUE]

I need to add that this zoning apples to those administrative districts that are controlled by Dane County Zoning and not Cities or Villages that have their own zoning administration. I think Madison may have it’s own regulations in place already and this wouldn’t supersede those.

I may be wrong about that, but I know the Town of Middleton is affected by this. 13 towns are currently preparing for a general town vote in April to opt out of the Dane County Zoning control and contract the administration of that to a private engineering firm. I may be facing more restrictions from a home rule situation, and am very interested in what the County decides.

[harold steinberg]

A couple of things.

Many towns are forming their own ordinances as we speak. They are removing themselves from the Dane County ones. Yes, it may sound crazy but that is what’s happening. So you may or may not be subject to this ordinance in the future. It’s pretty much the towns who want more development than Dane county will allow that are leaving the association.

Enforcement is a nightmare. Many ordinances are currently being violated all over Dane county but with no one willing to pay to enforce them, that is just the way it is. Many townships will not hire a town constable or contract with local city law enforcement because of costs. There simply is not enough money. Dane county sheriff patrols all of Dane county but they do not have time to deal with matters like this unless it becomes life threatening, personal injury, or a court case.

And the 75’ from ordinary high water is a set rule for almost every ordinance. “we” can’t have personal items floating away (pollution) whenever we get a big rainstorm, flood, or during spring runoff.

On Dec 7, 2016, at 9:20 AM, Matt H <matthew...@gmail.com> wrote:

[harold steinberg]

You are correct!

[BETSY TRUE]

Mostly, ordinances that are in violation require a citizen complaint to make it worthwhile for enforcement. Otherwise, they don’t seem to care.

[Randy Deering]

My city of Madison lot is 7,980sqft, so would that mean that we can only keep one hive? And BTW, Jeanne's lot is jut over 8,000sqft.

And I don't see anything mentioned about a flyaway block so you can place a hive closet to the lot line. With most Madison lot dimensions, it will be virtually impossible to place a hive 25 ft away from a house AND stay 25 feet away from a lot line too.

So is Dane County saying they don't want urban beekeepers by making it impossible (for most) to meet the criteria for doing so?

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Randy

[BETSY TRUE]

I think, no, Madison already has it’s own ordinances and the Dane County ones wouldn’t apply.

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[harold steinberg]

even when there are numerous offenses, it only amounts to a warning. If you make a really big stink at the town level (in the form of complaints), if you become a really squeaky wheel, and you make a convincing argument, because the offender is really bad, the town board members will generally try to make something happen in your favor, but they still have no ability to enforce. :P

[Drew]

For the first point of the ordinance objective is to set definition to distinguish from commercial beekeeping. Isn't this already cover by the zoning restriction of the property were bees are kept; being that any thing over 50 hives deemed an agricultural pursuit and considered a farmer and thus the land must be zoned fro farming. Their restriction are also trying to be applied to 'mixed use' zoned properties, does that include agricultural?

The standard their attempting to set for the number of hives, 1 for every 10000sq practical form the point that a most residential properties are on less than 1/4 acre lots and won't meet the minimum requirement. Isn't the goal of hobbyist beekeeping is to be self sufficient, meaning being able to successfully manage, care for and have survive through winter. That's just not an obtainable pursuit with just one hive.

Simply alluding to a a flyaway barrier as a fence should not be done. It serves no practical purpose to simply require the residential zoned lot have a fence to have bees.

What does else do they have in mind establishing hobbyist beekeeping standards for? Is this the actual ordinance wording they're proposing to use?

[harold steinberg]

Please check further, but I don’t think this would apply to any city or village that had it’s own ordinance, it would only apply to rural townships without a local ordinance. Out in rural areas, residential lots are mostly restricted to a minimum of 1 acre, though there are a number grandfathered in at less than 1 acre.

[BETSY TRUE]

Most of these rural lots are on septic and consequently, have enough land for the first field and an alternate field. Mostly, I think, that will be 3/4 to 1 acre.

Only the townships will be affected (until the 13 successfully opt out). Then the townships could make the regulations stricter or ban bees and chickens altogether.

[Matt H]

Whether a rural lot is 1 acre is irrelevant. The county has no business imposing unnecessary arbitrary laws. What evidence is there that one must have 10,000 sq ft per hive? I have 30 on my property (zoned AG2 btw) and in 3 years my wife nor any of my neighbors have ever gotten stung. It's ridiculous. If they aren't going to enforce the law then they have no business passing them.

[BETSY TRUE]

Good point. Do you think you’ll go to the meeting? We are planning to go.

> On Dec 7, 2016, at 9:36 PM, Matt H <matthew...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Whether a rural lot is 1 acre is irrelevant. The county has no business imposing unnecessary arbitrary laws. What evidence is there that one must have 10,000 sq ft per hive? I have 30 on my property (zoned AG2 btw) and in 3 years my wife nor any of my neighbors have ever gotten stung. It's ridiculous. If they aren't going to enforce the law then they have no business passing them.
>

[Matt H]

I'm going to try to go. So long as I don't get an work meeting I should be able to make it.

[Michael Gourlie]

Just a couple of comments to what I've read in response to this ordinance recommendation.
1. I don't believe that anything the county does can supersede an ordinance established by a municipality. Therefore, I do not believe this can have any affect on the city of Madison or any other city within Dane County that has adopted a Beekeeping Ordinance.
2. The language adopted in the recommendation for Dane-County is similar to language that was included in the original proposed ordinance for Madison. At the time, well meaning alders reviewed a lot of the language from existing municipal ordinances around the country and adopted what appeared to them as reasonable for Madison. However, they did not have the technical expertise to understand that, for all intents and purposes, their ordinance to legalize beekeeping would make it illegal. Those responding to the original email on the county's proposed ordinance have made similar observations that, in my opinion, are spot on.
3. To the credit of the sponsors of Madison's original draft ordinance, they were open to input from beekeeping experts. This, coupled with a progressive approach taken by Madison zoning administrator Matt Tucker, resulted in a very successful ordinance that is minimally restrictive but highly effective and is deemed very successful for over five years. Many other municipalities around the country have adopted ordinances using Madison's as a guide.
4. I encourage DCBA's rural beekeepers to take a very active role as Dane County's proposed ordinance moves forward.
5. I especially encourage Joe Bessetti & Dale Marsden to weigh in on this ordinance. Both Joe and Dale served on Dane-County's Pollinator Protection Task Force.

Mike

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 7, 2016, at 23:09, Matt H <matthew...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I'm going to try to go. So long as I don't get an work meeting I should be able to make it.
>

[Drew]

I suggest each of us contact your Dane county board supervisor and inquire about possible implications and inform them on bees. I did mine and have so far gotten a positive response and been assured they'd get back to me after tomorrow with more information to my questions regarding the ordinance.

Find out who your board supervisor is

https://board.countyofdane.com/findyoursupervisor

[Drew]

I'd like to share with everyone what the response back has been from members of the Dane County Zoning committee and Comprehensive Revision of Chapter 10 staff regarding the new ordinance.

 

Fist I'd like to emphasize the point that for anyone remotely interested or concerned about bees or beekeeping this issue, of an excessively restrictive ordinance, should be worrisome. Even if it only applies to residents down the road or in communities 20min outside of yours.

Here is also a map(https://dcimapapps.countyofdane.com/dcmapviewer/) outlining the areas of Dane county which are under the authority of the Zoning Board (everything not lightly grey shaded)

Thanks for providing Andrew’s comments to us.  We’d be happy to talk with him.

 

On the contrary, as I indicated in my previous email, we’re trying to enable beekeeping in the community, not make it impossible.  We welcome his thoughts, especially if there is something we may be missing in the proposed standards.  We also invite him to attend the subcommittee’s next meeting to share his comments directly with the subcommittee members. 

 

Dane County’s zoning ordinance does not apply in any of the cities and villages, including the city of Madison.

 

Todd A. Violante, AICP, Director
Dane County Planning & Development Department

Room 116, City-County Building
210 MLK, Jr. Blvd.

Madison, WI  53703-3342

Phone:  (608) 266-4021

 

This is Brian Standing.  I’m the staff lead for the Comprehensive Revision of Chapter 10 (Dane County Zoning Ordinance) project.  Thank you for contacting Dane County about the proposal to allow domestic beekeeping as a permitted use in residential zoning districts. 

 

First off, I wanted to point out that these are preliminary drafts, and we would welcome additional input about these proposals, particularly if there are folks with expertise from the Pollinator project.  Second, the county Comprehensive Revision of Chapter 10 Subcommittee will be discussing this issue at its next meeting, Monday, December 19^th at 4:00 p.m.  in Room 354 of the City-County Building in Madison.   I would encourage you, or anyone else interested in this issue, to attend that meeting.  There will be time on the agenda for comments from the public.  More information on the zoning revision project is available here:  https://www.countyofdane.com/plandev/zoning/comprehensive_revision_special_projects.aspx

 

I also wanted to clarify a couple of points.   First, the new Dane County Zoning Ordinance will apply only in those unincorporated towns that choose to adopt the county zoning ordinance.  Cities, villages and towns that choose other zoning will not be affected.

 

Second, the proposed new Dane County Zoning Ordinance would include different levels of regulation regarding beekeeping, depending on the size and zoning of each lot, and the surrounding setting. 

1.       Farmland Preservation and Rural Mixed Use Zoning: Beekeeping as an “agricultural use.”  Both the current and proposed ordinance use the same definition of “agricultural use” that is used in Chapter 91 of the state statutes, which specifically includes beekeeping, without any limit on the number of hives or bees, or specific requirements for fencing or other barriers.  Our current proposal would be to allow beekeeping, along with any other agricultural use, in proposed Farmland Preservation Zoning and Rural Mixed-Use Districts.  These zoning districts will account for the vast majority of the land area of the county.

2.       Rural Residential Zoning: Beekeeping as “small scale agriculture.”  This new definition would read: “Any agricultural use operated for recreational, hobby or supplementary income purposes on a site with a non-agricultural principal use.”  The idea would be to apply this category of use to medium-sized (2-8 acre) Rural Residential zoned properties.  Traditional livestock and other farm animals would be limited to one “animal unit” (defined as 1 cow, 4 hogs, 10 sheep, 10 goats, 100 poultry, 1 horse, 1 pony, 1 mule, 100 rabbits or  equivalent) per acre.  While beekeeping would certainly be included in this “small scale agriculture” category, we have not yet defined an equivalent numerical standard for bees, or even if setting limits on bees for this type of use is even necessary or advisable.  Any input you or anyone else with expertise in this area would be welcome.

3.       Residential Zoning: “Domestic beekeeping.”  Finally, for small lots (8,000 square feet to 1 acre) in more purely residential zoning districts, including the proposed Single-Family Residential, Two-Family Residential and Multifamily Residential Zoning Districts, we are proposing this new category of “Domestic Beekeeping.”  This would allow landowners in residential neighborhoods and subdivisions to keep a limited number of bees (1 hive per 10,000 square feet of lot area) without creating potential problems for neighbors.  This limit is consistent with current county practice.  Other provisions related to provision of water are similar to those in the City of Madison’s zoning ordinance.  Finally, requirements for setbacks for fences and hives are consistent with how the current county zoning ordinance treats other accessory structures related to other small structures.

 

Please feel free to share this information with anyone else you feel may be interested.  I’d be happy to discuss this further with you.  Please feel free to contact me directly.  If you cannot or would rather not attend the Subcommittee meeting on the 19^th, I’d also be happy to relay any comments, thoughts or suggestions you or others may have to the Subcommittee for their consideration.

 

Thanks again for your interest and taking the time to comment.  I look forward to hearing from you soon.

 

Brian Standing
Senior Planner
Dane County Professional Employees Local 1871
Dane County Planning & Development
Room 116, 210 Martin Luther King, Jr. Blvd.

Madison, WI 53703
(608) 267-4115

[BETSY TRUE]

Drew, do you have Brian Standing’s email address?

This is Brian Standing.  I’m the staff lead for the Comprehensive Revision of Chapter 10 (Dane County Zoning Ordinance) project.  Thank you for contacting Dane County about the proposal to allow domestic beekeeping as a permitted use in residential zoning districts. 

 

First off, I wanted to point out that these are preliminary drafts, and we would welcome additional input about these proposals, particularly if there are folks with expertise from the Pollinator project.  Second, the county Comprehensive Revision of Chapter 10 Subcommittee will be discussing this issue at its next meeting, Monday, December 19^th at 4:00 p.m.  in Room 354 of the City-County Building in Madison.   I would encourage you, or anyone else interested in this issue, to attend that meeting.  There will be time on the agenda for comments from the public.  More information on the zoning revision project is available here:  https://www.countyofdane.com/plandev/zoning/comprehensive_revision_special_projects.aspx

 

I also wanted to clarify a couple of points.   First, the new Dane County Zoning Ordinance will apply only in those unincorporated towns that choose to adopt the county zoning ordinance.  Cities, villages and towns that choose other zoning will not be affected.

 

Second, the proposed new Dane County Zoning Ordinance would include different levels of regulation regarding beekeeping, depending on the size and zoning of each lot, and the surrounding setting. 

1.       Farmland Preservation and Rural Mixed Use Zoning: Beekeeping as an “agricultural use.”  Both the current and proposed ordinance use the same definition of “agricultural use” that is used in Chapter 91 of the state statutes, which specifically includes beekeeping, without any limit on the number of hives or bees, or specific requirements for fencing or other barriers.  Our current proposal would be to allow beekeeping, along with any other agricultural use, in proposed Farmland Preservation Zoning and Rural Mixed-Use Districts.  These zoning districts will account for the vast majority of the land area of the county.

2.       Rural Residential Zoning: Beekeeping as “small scale agriculture.”  This new definition would read: “Any agricultural use operated for recreational, hobby or supplementary income purposes on a site with a non-agricultural principal use.”  The idea would be to apply this category of use to medium-sized (2-8 acre) Rural Residential zoned properties.  Traditional livestock and other farm animals would be limited to one “animal unit” (defined as 1 cow, 4 hogs, 10 sheep, 10 goats, 100 poultry, 1 horse, 1 pony, 1 mule, 100 rabbits or  equivalent) per acre.  While beekeeping would certainly be included in this “small scale agriculture” category, we have not yet defined an equivalent numerical standard for bees, or even if setting limits on bees for this type of use is even necessary or advisable.  Any input you or anyone else with expertise in this area would be welcome.

3.       Residential Zoning: “Domestic beekeeping.”  Finally, for small lots (8,000 square feet to 1 acre) in more purely residential zoning districts, including the proposed Single-Family Residential, Two-Family Residential and Multifamily Residential Zoning Districts, we are proposing this new category of “Domestic Beekeeping.”  This would allow landowners in residential neighborhoods and subdivisions to keep a limited number of bees (1 hive per 10,000 square feet of lot area) without creating potential problems for neighbors.  This limit is consistent with current county practice.  Other provisions related to provision of water are similar to those in the City of Madison’s zoning ordinance.  Finally, requirements for setbacks for fences and hives are consistent with how the current county zoning ordinance treats other accessory structures related to other small structures.

 

Please feel free to share this information with anyone else you feel may be interested.  I’d be happy to discuss this further with you.  Please feel free to contact me directly.  If you cannot or would rather not attend the Subcommittee meeting on the 19^th, I’d also be happy to relay any comments, thoughts or suggestions you or others may have to the Subcommittee for their consideration.

 

Thanks again for your interest and taking the time to comment.  I look forward to hearing from you soon.

 

Brian Standing
Senior Planner
Dane County Professional Employees Local 1871
Dane County Planning & Development
Room 116, 210 Martin Luther King, Jr. Blvd.

Madison, WI 53703
(608) 267-4115

[BETSY TRUE]

On Dec 14, 2016, at 8:21 AM, BETSY TRUE <bt...@wisc.edu> wrote:

Drew, do you have Brian Standing’s email address?

found it:

stan...@countyofdane.com

[Paul Zelenski]

I plan to go to the hearing. Is it safe to say that as a club we are opposed to the ordinance in its current form? Is it safe to represent this as our official position? I will encourage them to work with us much like Madison did to develop a common sense ordinance that encourages beekeeping while addressing the potential hazards and fears on non-beekeepers. 

If people who cannot make it to the hearing want to provide opinions or specific concerns about the ordinance (or sections that are good), I will try to use the info to represent these opinions. 

[BETSY TRUE]

Yes, Paul. This doesn't serve the backyard beekeeper at all. On the one hand they say there is no agricultural unit quantity set for bees and then they set it at 1000 sq ft per hive which is the same as saying 4 hives per 1 acre lot. I want to be allowed 24 hives per my acre lot. (Madison's 6per 1/4 acre times 4). Ok, no, I'd be happy at 20. Less happy at 16.

We plan to be there. 

We are stakeholders. Why does the pollinator project get invited to participate and not us?

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From: mad...@googlegroups.com <mad...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Paul Zelenski <paulze...@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2016 8:32:04 AM
To: mad...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [madbees] Re: proposed beekeeping ordinance for Dane County

 

[BETSY TRUE]

Do we want a diplomat to argue for us? Is Michael Gourlie available and willing?

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From: mad...@googlegroups.com <mad...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of BETSY TRUE <bt...@wisc.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2016 9:22:40 AM

[Greg V]

About this:

Finally, for small lots (8,000 square feet to 1 acre) in more purely residential zoning districts, including the proposed Single-Family Residential, Two-Family Residential and Multifamily Residential Zoning Districts, we are proposing this new category of “Domestic Beekeeping.”  This would allow landowners in residential neighborhoods and subdivisions to keep a limited number of bees (1 hive per 10,000 square feet of lot area) without creating potential problems for neighbors.  This limit is consistent with current county practice.

I apologize for repeating myself - a small-scale beekeeper absolutely must have TWO hives (THREE is better) simply to have a chance to keep his/her bees sustainably. Now, IF these administrators genuinely want to promote backyard beekeeping (sustainable beekeeping, to be totally clear), they should also support this common sense number - two hives per a backyard.

Due to incompetence (or by design??? hope not) they keep sticking to this number of ONE hive per the backyard (small backyard, to be totally clear). By doing so they are setting up many beekeepers for failure. I think this idea must be made absolutely clear to the decision makers so that they understand the difference between one hive vs. two hives in technical terms (redundancy and recover-ability).

Why is this important?
Because many towns and cities in the county do refer to the county-wide codes to model their own ordinances.
Case in point - City of Fitchburg.
                   "Four (4) beehives are allowed per acre (43,560 sq ft), or pro-rated portion of an acre."

                   Source: http://www.fitchburgwi.gov/DocumentCenter/Home/View/4027
This means that I am only allowed ONE hive on my 9000 sq. feet property.
I find this unacceptable and will also contact the City regarding this very point.
There is no significant difference whether I have one or two hives on my backyard due to many other factors (obvious fact to many members here). But right now I am already forced into doing various tweaks to have even very minimal sustainability with my bees while meeting the city ordinance. This should not be the case.

So whoever has a chance to speak to the decision makers, please make this point of "two hive minimum" very clear.
If they do mean well, they should be aware of this fact.
Thank you!

PS: obviously, I am not an authority to push forward this "two hive minimum", but there are many true respected authorities that stated the same (not going to google here for quotes).

[jeanne hansen]

Yes, Paul, please speak on behalf of our entire club, which is at least 400 people registered on our madbees group.  

The pollinator project may have been invited, and not us, but "we" can show up!!  And please point out that the pollination issue is not served by restricting honey bee hives.

Thank you to those taking part in this activity!!

Thanks!
Jeanne Hansen
824 Jacobson Ave
Madison, WI 53714
608-244-5094

---

From: Paul Zelenski <paulze...@gmail.com>
To: mad...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2016 8:32 AM

Subject: Re: [madbees] Re: proposed beekeeping ordinance for Dane County

[Dale Marsden]

Hi ,

 I was on the Dane County pollinators' committee and have been reading the emails and will attend the hearing on Monday and will support the concerns individuals have about beekeeping restrictions. You do need to run two hives to be sustainable and there is little difference in concerns of 2 vs 1 hive.    I am on only 5 acres and on r-2 property and run it as a farm with well over 20 hives most of the time for the last 27 years.  No one complains and no one tells me I have too many bees, often over 40 hives all winter,  60 after I place packages the spring  and 20-30 all summer.  I pollinate at least 5 orchards every spring and 4 truck gardens all summers well as my home area. 

We don't have a problem with Africanized bees coming into the state either so most of the public's concerns are overrated.

Dale Marsden

Marsden Pure Honey LLC

McFarland

---

From: 'jeanne hansen' via madbees <mad...@googlegroups.com>
To: "mad...@googlegroups.com" <mad...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2016 10:38 AM

[BETSY TRUE]

I meant 10,000 sq ft per hive. Waaaay too restrictive.

A 2 hive minimum is still too low. It should start at 6 and be more for rural areas. I vote for 16-20 per acre.

[Greg V]

I agree!

Note, in my writing I was very specific in targeting this wording:
    ..............for small lots (8,000 square feet to 1 acre) in more purely residential zoning districts, including the proposed Single-Family Residential, Two-Family Residential and Multifamily Residential Zoning Districts, we are proposing this new category of “Domestic Beekeeping.”..........

More is better, obviously.
I would ask for three at least for the "Domestic Beekeeping" category.
But even two hive allowed is a good deal already and is more feasible to be approved of.

I don't even have that - as silly as it gets.

On Wed, Dec 14, 2016 at 11:39 AM, BETSY TRUE <bt...@wisc.edu> wrote:

I meant 10,000 sq ft per hive. Waaaay too restrictive.

A 2 hive minimum is still too low. It should start at 6 and be more for rural areas. I vote for 16-20 per acre.

On Dec 14, 2016, at 9:22 AM, BETSY TRUE <bt...@wisc.edu> wrote:

Yes, Paul. This doesn't serve the backyard beekeeper at all. On the one hand they say there is no agricultural unit quantity set for bees and then they set it at 1000 sq ft per hive which is the same as saying 4 hives per 1 acre lot. I want to be allowed 24 hives per my acre lot. (Madison's 6per 1/4 acre times 4). Ok, no, I'd be happy at 20. Less happy at 16.

We plan to be there. 

We are stakeholders. Why does the pollinator project get invited to participate and not us?

Get Outlook for iOS

---

From: mad...@googlegroups.com <mad...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Paul Zelenski <paulze...@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2016 8:32:04 AM
To: mad...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [madbees] Re: proposed beekeeping ordinance for Dane County

 

I plan to go to the hearing. Is it safe to say that as a club we are opposed to the ordinance in its current form? Is it safe to represent this as our official position? I will encourage them to work with us much like Madison did to develop a common sense ordinance that encourages beekeeping while addressing the potential hazards and fears on non-beekeepers. 

If people who cannot make it to the hearing want to provide opinions or specific concerns about the ordinance (or sections that are good), I will try to use the info to represent these opinions. 

On Dec 14, 2016, at 8:23 AM, BETSY TRUE <bt...@wisc.edu> wrote:

On Dec 14, 2016, at 8:21 AM, BETSY TRUE <bt...@wisc.edu> wrote:

Drew, do you have Brian Standing’s email address?

found it:

stan...@countyofdane.com

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[Drew]

It pretty clear that the council wants and needs input from beekeepers despite their continued pushing of the wording of 1 hive per 10,000sqft.  As a community we need to present a clear united message ; the last think we want to is confuse these people more than is necessary. The hearing is on the 19th between now and then we should draft a version of the ordinance we find acceptable and a cogent argument supporting it and communicate it to them before the hearing as well as specifically outlining are opposition to the current draft.

I personally  feel that all wording regarding plot size should be removed. It makes things unnecessarily complex  and confusing.  They say they're basing it of existing ordinances; Brian even referred to Madisons but it's clear the council is choosing to push a highly restrictive ordinance that effectively bans sustainable beekeeping as GregV pointed out, otherwise why not just copy all of Madison ordinance exactly.

I was told the purpose of a beekeeping ordinance is "to enable beekeeping in the community, not make it impossible."( Todd A. Violante)

There is a distinction to be made between allowing bees and enabling beekeeping. To be a beekeeper is to literally be a steward of your colonies implementing tried and tested hive management practices developed  over centuries as individuals domesticated the honeybee to suit the needs of people. Yes it recommended that people start out with one or two hives as they learn the trade but it is not sustainable and fosters poor hive management. I think it would be extremely helpful if we could clearly explain how a limit of one hive is effectively telling people how they manage their bees or consequentially how they are not allowed to manage them.

• ·         Sharing of resources. swapping frames of honey, eggs , pollen drawn comb
• ·         Splitting to prevent swarming (probably the biggest reason concerned neighbors should support higher hive numbers on property)
• ·         Dependency of imported bees and queen not suited to WI climate( the best bees are bees raised locally)

[Michael Gourlie]

When Madison came up with an ordinance back in 2011 that was about as restrictive as the one being proposed by the county, DCBA leadership allowed me to lead a concerted effort to work with alders, boards, committees, commissions, city administrators and an assortment of other entities that are part of municipal governance.  This was an extremely time- and energy-consuming effort.  

 

I offered to take the lead on the Madison effort under certain conditions and I encourage whoever decides they wish to lead this effort to do the same.  These are some of those things:

1.   That we establish a committee of interested DCBA members to help craft alternatives to the proposed ordinance and that this committee meet/communicate frequently throughout the process.

 

2.   That the issue be on the DCBA monthly meeting agenda throughout with updates being provided on the progress and input being sought so that DCBA leadership and membership remain involved.

 

3.  That those on the committee be given approval to address the issue in behalf of the DCBA as its representatives.  

 

I was given broad latitude to move DCBA's effort forward by the club president at the time, Jeane Hansen.  Based on my experiences, these are the things you will want to do:

1.         Determine the entire process of what it is going to take to get the ordinance (if that is what it is called) passed and the timelines of that process.  This includes all committees, commissions, councils, boards, etc., that the ordinance has to go through for approval prior to it going to the County Board and learn who chairs those entities so you can learn about the processes and issues each considers as it reviews the ordinance.  I don't know how many it will be for the county, but there were at least seven entities that this went through at the city level.

2.         Determine who the supervisors are that are sponsoring it or taking an active leadership role in it.

3.         Determine the county departments that are taking a role in providing information for the County Board to consider as it moves ahead.  In Madison, it was the Zoning Department and I suspect it is the same with the with the county.  

4.  Be willing to have DCBA representation at each and every meeting for each and every committee, commission, board, council and so on that will take part in the approval process.  Have only as many present as necessary to address the task at hand.   There is nothing wrong with having large numbers at these meetings to show solidarity, but I would encourage you to have the fewest number necessary to make the necessary points that need to be made.

5.  Within a short amount of time, the DCBA leader should be on a first name basis with the supervisors leading the effort, with the zoning administrator (or his/her designated rep) and the key committee/council/commission chairs.

 

Based on my experiences, I would be happy to further advise those willing to do the work if they so desire.  I apologize that I'm not willing to again invest the amount of energy and time taking the lead that Madison's ordinance required back in 2011.

 

Thanks.

 

Mike
Sent from my iPad

[BETSY TRUE]

Paul, wanna take the lead on this?

[BETSY TRUE]

I nominate Paul Z to take the lead on this.

On Dec 14, 2016, at 11:53 AM, Michael Gourlie <mic...@gourlie.com> wrote:

[paulze...@gmail.com]

I don’t live in Dane County, if that matters. It might to the representatives.

 

From: BETSY TRUE
Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2016 1:28 PM
To: Madbees
Subject: Re: [madbees] Re: proposed beekeeping ordinance for Dane County

 

I nominate Paul Z to take the lead on this.

 

 

 

[jeanne hansen]

Paul,

You may not live in Dane Co but you do have hives in the county.  Also, you would be speaking for the club on behalf of those who do have hives in the county.

 

Thanks!
Jeanne Hansen
824 Jacobson Ave
Madison, WI 53714
608-244-5094

---

From: "paulze...@gmail.com" <paulze...@gmail.com>
To: BETSY TRUE <bt...@wisc.edu>; Madbees <mad...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2016 2:09 PM
Subject: RE: [madbees] Re: proposed beekeeping ordinance for Dane County

[Michael Gourlie]

To underscore what Jeanne says, when it comes time to petition supervisors for their support of an alternative ordinance to the one proposed, it would be wise to solicit DCBA members living in Dane County to contact their respective county supervisors regarding the ordinance making certain each mentions that they are members of the DCBA.

 

mike

[Greg V]

I looked again at this:
                       3. A constant supply of water is provided for all hives

Also silly and a potential road block giving just yet another reason to say - now (in my view).

My case:
  OK, I did try keeping a vessel with water next to my nuc hive - they never cared for it and I stopped this pointless activity.
  There are several ponds nearby and I presume they really prefer those to my house water.
  At some point, the bees also really enjoyed my compost pile to collect the water from decaying kitchen scraps.
  Yet, now IF I have no "bee-watering dish" I become illegal.
  This is plainly incompetent (to compare bees to, say, chickens who do need accessible drinking water).

We are not living in Arizona here and there is plenty of watering holes all over nearby.
Meanwhile, they are forcing the beekeeper to imitate some pointless watering activity (OR ELSE).

I am not able to attended (the kids). Too bad.

[BETSY TRUE]

Water IS an important factor to make sure your bees aren't annoying the neighbors. A fountain or pond nearby is adequate though. Just keep them out of your neighbors swimming pool. That's where most of the complaints come from. 

Get Outlook for iOS

---

From: mad...@googlegroups.com <mad...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Greg V <voro...@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, December 19, 2016 4:37:14 PM
To: madbees

Subject: Re: [madbees] Re: proposed beekeeping ordinance for Dane County

[Greg V]

This only amounts to imitation of the effort. The bees will go where they choose.

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[Matt H]

While your small nucs may not have made a noticable impact on the water you put out Greg, I can assure you that bees can and do frequent provided water sources. Mine particularly like the two 20-gallon mini ponds and need weekly topping ups during the summer. While providing water in a more rural setting may not be nessesary, in some residential setting where this ordinance is directed at this helps promote us as neighborly beekeepers. Jeanne has a great watering setup and was really busy last time we were there for a summer DCBA meeting. While not 100%, it definitely helps keeps bees out of other people's pools, bird baths, etc.

[Greg V]

I suppose it is case by case.

Like I said, I have retention pond nearby (and a very moist water way behind my yard).

At the same time, no one in the vicinity has back-yard swimming pools and the like, to worry about.

OK, fine, I would keep a water dish around - check! :-)

On Mon, Dec 19, 2016 at 8:52 PM, Matt H <matthew...@gmail.com> wrote:

While your small nucs may not have made a noticable impact on the water you put out Greg, I can assure you that bees can and do frequent provided water sources. Mine particularly like the two 20-gallon mini ponds and need weekly topping ups during the summer. While providing water in a more rural setting may not be nessesary, in some residential setting where this ordinance is directed at this helps promote us as neighborly beekeepers. Jeanne has a great watering setup and was really busy last time we were there for a summer DCBA meeting.  While not 100%, it definitely helps keeps bees out of other people's pools, bird baths, etc.