DROP YAHOO,
AustinMuttley
swear to God if you don't get rid of Flash and stop recommending Flash as a
delivery system for video. Its pathetic that you would tie yourself to them in
an attempt to make an extra dime.
Trust me when I say that I will post on every one of my sites, every blog, and
every message board that I can find about how you have compromised your morals
and sold out your clients.
I paid for Sorenson Squeeze, I paid for the video kit, I DID NOT SPEND MY
MONEY SO THAT YOU COULD HAVE VISITORS TO MY SITE HAVE THIRD PARTY SOFTWARE
PUSHED ON THEM. ITS PATHETIC AND INEXCUSABLE. Why am I paying for Macromedia
products when your using me ?
- Ray
rlc5611
a problem with YAHOO, remember the adage that you get what you pay for. I pay
for site hosting services so I don't have ads. You could too. What does your
particular problem have to do with Flash?
Jeckyl
> particular problem have to do with Flash?
I assume it is because Yahoo software is bundled with Flash Player now
If not, my previous answer makes no sense :)
--
Jeckyl
Jeckyl
(or at least ears attached to people who have no influence and can do
nothing about it). We here are just other users, like yourself.
This topic was well discussed before (when the new install first appeared)
.. I don't think anyone actually liked the idea, and many (like yourself)
were quite miffed. But, as was pointed out, Yahoo is not forced upon you
when you install .. but you do have to choose NOT to install it.
There is a web page (forgotten the address) where you can post suggestions
and wishes for Macromedia .. I think it may be directly connected to a
garbage chute, however ;)
--
Jeckyl
Jeckyl
play in) is fair enough.
But Flash already has big market penetration and the yahoo toolbar is not
really complementary or related .. bundling Yahoo toolbar with Flash Player
is not going to get it any more penetration at all for Flash Player .. but
it will give yahoo more penetration .. so I imagine MM got paid suitably
large sums for including yahoo toolbar in the install ;)
If I wanted yahoo toolbar, I'd get it .. I don't like having to download it
as part of the flash player install and then have to choose not to install
it. Especially if I was still on a slow old modem or expensive connection.
Anyway .. it is up to MM who their share their bed with. We can't really do
much about it.
BTW: Does anyone actually LIKE the idea of the bundling Yahoo products as
part of the Flash Player download and default install? (rather than don't
care either way). Just interested if there really IS an upside for anyone
other than revenue for MM.
--
Jeckyl
merlinvicki
This topic was well discussed before (when the new install first appeared).. I
miffed. But, as was pointed out, Yahoo is not forced upon you when you install
.. but you do have to choose NOT to install it.
flash player penetration I wouldnt mind it. Seriously I would like Firefox and
buddies do an IE by including Flash player installion in their installation
package.
THis is however my personal opinion, you may have your own...
AustinMuttley
the topic especially when it seems you didn't even read, or at least have the
intellect to grasp what I was saying. First this has nothing to do with Yahoo
ads. Second it has to do with Macromedia because they now include Yahoo's
toolbar when someone wants to install the flash player which is required to
view Flash content. It's a deplorable abuse of their position and I am baffled
as to why there hasn't been an outcry from the community of flash developers at
large.
Let me break this down for you.
You buy flash, dreamweaver, or any of the number of programs that they are
affiliated with such as Sorenson Squeeze. You pay top dollar for this software
mind you. You invest your creativity, your time, your money, to create flash
content and what does Macromedia do ? When someone wants to view your content
they try to shove another unrelated piece of junk software down your visitors
throat by packaging Yahoo's toolbar with the install. They essentially spam the
people who only want to see your site as you meant them to see it. They even go
the extra step to have the Yahoo Toolbar option checked by default to make sure
that those who either don't pay attention or happen to miss it install it on
accident. All this so they can get a kickback from Yahoo for every toolbar that
gets installed.
There was no disclaimer that they would be doing this, and furthermore this
didn't used to be the case. They slipped this in hoping to get it under the
radar.
How do you not get it ? I spent a good deal of money to buy their software and
my trust was violated when they take my money and than use my work to spam the
traffic I send them. The term is "double dipping".
And to answer your question, no I won't just go away, and I won't shut up.
Just because some of you don't seem to care that the company that you trusted
when you bought their high dollar software and invested your time learning is
screwing you for a nickel doesn't mean I'm to lay down and take it. Its
deceptive, unethical, and absolutely unacceptable.
- Ray
Peter Blumenthal
> part of the Flash Player download and default install? (rather than don't
> care either way). Just interested if there really IS an upside for anyone
> other than revenue for MM.
I think it was stupid, and extremely short sighted of MM to include it as
default - fair enough, offer it as an *option*, but let people opt in, don't
force them to opt out. Just my 2p. MM reps seem to have been pretty tight
lipped about the whole affair too...
--
-------------------------------
Remove '_spamkiller_' to mail
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Jeckyl
Yeup . .that sounds pretty much like what people said when this first
happened, and it was well discussed back then. As I said, I don't think
there was anyone who actually thought it was a good idea .. some reacted as
strongly (if not more so) than Austin is now .. some didn't particularly
care either way.
Regardless it will make no difference to MM (or rather , Adobe now) .. they
will do what they want to do .. its their player, and they can bundle it
with whatever (legal) software they want. Whether we like it or not.
--
Jeckyl
Peter Blumenthal
> as to why there hasn't been an outcry from the community of flash
developers at
> large.
There has, but you appear to have missed it.
brokenButton
news:d8onbl$hi8$1...@forums.macromedia.com...
> BTW: Does anyone actually LIKE the idea of the bundling Yahoo products as
> part of the Flash Player download and default install? (rather than don't
> care either way). Just interested if there really IS an upside for anyone
> other than revenue for MM.
No upside, mm just using their market penetration to make some more money.
The yahoo toolbar is free to anybody who wants to go to yahoo's website and
download it.
MM have always been very vigilant about keeping the player download to a
minimum, and using every byte to fit as many features into the player as
possible. Hopefully they'll remove the yahoo crap and use the space for
extra features when FP 8 is released. :-)
John
Tom Unger
"brokenButton";
I would like to see the yahoo download turned "off" by default, but it's
not something I would drop flash over. The yahoo toolbar is actually not
that bad a utility, but I would not want it installed without being aware of
it. Users on slower connections not only face the larger download--I believe
the toolbar loads some info each time the browser is opened as well...
Fwiw adobe added the yahoo toolbar (also "turned on" by default) to the
acrobat reader download at about the same time as MM added it to the flash
player download. I suspect these tie-in's are about more than
getting money from Yahoo. In addition to competing with portals like yahoo,
and search engines like google, MS is beginning to offer an alternative to
pdf (perhaps swf as well), and they have released their first "serious"
graphics app in beta (built from the acquired Creature house "expression").
It's not just glitches that have caused longhorn to become
-Tom Unger
Peter Blumenthal
> -Tom Unger
It's not just glitches that have caused Longhorn to become Tom Unger. Too
weird ;)
Jeckyl
>> -Tom Unger
> It's not just glitches that have caused Longhorn to become Tom Unger. Too
> weird ;)
No wonder its not been released yet :):)
Jeckyl
aetienneVPD
installation.
There is an option whether you want it or not its a form of 3rd party
advertisement. If you dont want it just deselect it.
I do not know why there is a big thing about advertising on macromedia.
aetienneVPD
livingwithanangel
Peter Blumenthal
rnot - if you don't like it and don't want it, don't install it and stop
moaning about it!
IMHO you're missing the point. A lot of less 'web savvy' people won't notice
the option to not install (or even that they will be installing) the
toolbar, and so after installing what they imagine to be only the Flash
Player, suddenly find themselves the proud (or not) owners of a Yahoo
toolbar. It devalues the Macromedia Flash brand, and a LOT of developers are
rightly worried about this. Why not allow people trying to download the
Flash Player to opt in to the Yahoo toolbar, rather than forcing them to opt
out?
aetienneVPD
already im quite good at it. when i 1st came to install flash player i thought
it kind of strange that yahoo toolbar be 3rd party on page with flash. I've
created my company website in flash and when people need to view it i don't
want them to be having to install yahoo to get to flash player, in reaction
some people will not go through with the install and then forget about viewing
my work as a developer. i for one am not happy with that so as a result
creating a independent link from my sites from page to download flash player is
probably the best idea i can give out of this
Tom Unger
Every so often I seem to lose a few characters from the end of my replies.
That should have read:
It's not just glitches that have caused Longhorn to become "longwait"...
-Tom Unger
Jeanne D
the Yahoo toolbar, rather than forcing them to opt out? >>
Probably because the Yahoo folks wouldn't like that. Not one bit. I can
just hear them now..no no no no no!
Ha...that is funny. Very nice and thoughtful - and in a perfect world
it should work that way. It's all about the $$$ and my thought is MM's
position was not good. Yahoo was probably sending them some big bucks,
which they desparately needed. Then Adobe stepped up to the plate.
Let's see what happens with Adobe and Yahoo. I bet the Yahoo people
said the same thing when MM sold out to Adobe....no no no no no!
They probably won't be able to afford Adobe.
I don't care for extras being thrown at me, especially if I've paid for
some expensive software. With shareware I don't care.
art_guy
since Yahoo Toolbar is still there on the page...
I understand it can be checked off, but Adobe/MM need to consider the idiot
factor when making business decisions like this. And trust me, the idiot factor
is very high. Example:
I run a games site. Had a visitor email us complaining that the games didn't
work anymore. I asked what version of Flash did she have installed? She said
she had REMOVED FLASH PLAYER, because she didn't want the Yahoo Toolbar!!
See what I mean? People don't notice the Yahoo check box is on by default.
They get the Yahoo Toolbar installed. They think it's tied to Flash and thus
they uninstall Flash! This is exactly the opposite of what Adobe/MM should
want. It has a completely adverse effect on player penetration rates.
If anything, they should have the checkbox OFF by default. But I know they
have it on by default exactly for the purpose of "accidental" installations.
But as I said already, look what the end result is of accidental installations.
Jeckyl
> idiot
> factor when making business decisions like this. And trust me, the idiot
> factor
> is very high. Example:
Yes .. they have considered the idiot factor. The idiots install the yahoo
toolbar. Server them right for just ownloading without reading about what
they are getting. They are the same people who signed their lives away in
contracts without reading what they are signing.
> If anything, they should have the checkbox OFF by default. But I know they
> have it on by default exactly for the purpose of "accidental"
> installations.
> But as I said already, look what the end result is of accidental
> installations.
That would be 'nicer' perhaps. Buts its up to Adobe on how they set their
defaults. There is really nothing wrong with it as it is .. it gives the
user the option to install the yahoo bar or not. People really need to take
responsibility for their own actions and stop trying to blame everyone else
for their own stupidity. If they install something they don't want because
they couldn't be bothered to read instructions or turn off a checkbox ..
that's their own fault.
--
Jeckyl