I'll see what sort of stuff we have already that would be suitable for
building a cleaning station tomorrow.
Robert
Yes, it is overcomplicated! I am the Premises Manager for a largish school, and my cleaners do the entire building with a lot less fuss. The core tasks here are a good swab out of the bogs once a week, and the same for the kitchen and wet lab. Spot cleaning as required of tables and worktops and occasional vacuum cleaning of the carpets. The kitchen apparatus and worksurfaces will need cleaning after use, mild detergent will suffice for most of this, if the oven is wiped out after each use there should be no need for industrial strength chemicals. The workshop floor only needs a good sweep/vacuum as required, the surface does not require mopping in its current state. . So, all that is required for cleaning our excellent space is.... Two
mops/buckets, one for the lavatories (red) and one for the kitchen (yellow). Three small hand buckets (Lavs, Kitchen,other areas (blue) A supply of each colour of (semi)disposable cloth. ("J cloth" or similar) Abrasive pads/sponges. Rubber Gloves Hard surface cleaner, the sort in a trigger spray bottle, preferably tree hugger grade. Floor cleaner, "Flash" or similar. Simple detergent, "Ecover" or similar. added to the above an efficient vacuum cleaner for the carpets and a semi-stiff brush for the workshop floor. All the above (except the mops/brushes) will fit into the cupboard under the sink with room for a stock of black plastic bags. A notice stating "Cleaning materials only" should ensure that extraneous matter is not introduced. Suggested that mops be kept on the balcony along with a small
washing line/drying rack for wet cloths to ensure that they do not fester between uses. As for detailed instructions, a simple list of tasks should be sufficient. It really is not difficult to work out how to use a mop or a wet cloth. A log sheet showing the last time each area was done will avoid duplication of effort. The idea that people do not clean because they cannot work out what to do is rather strange, needing two books and numerous worksheets to enlighten them is just plain laughable. Not knowing where to find the cleaning kit is a slightly better excuse, but the people who DO clean here (and there are several, all of them deserving of our appreciation) seem to have worked it out without much trouble. The simple way to help those who volunteer to do the regular tasks is to CLEAN UP AFTER YOURSELF. Leaving crap where it falls is
far from the excellence expected and will bring bad karma upon you. Let the bikeshedding begin..... |
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On Fri, 09 Sep 2011 01:24:09 +0100, SheraDreaming <killas...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Cepmender, what do you believe is the reason people don't clean then?
> You are insisting that everyone knows what to do, supplies are not
> difficult to find, and it is just laziness?
I am saying no such thing. I am saying that there is no need to provide
detailed instructions for tasks that most of us do anyway in other
contexts and that provision of a few basic materials in a clearly marked
space is all that is required to facilitate those who wish to. I believe
that the main reason for disinclination to clean is not laziness or lack
of knowledge or supplies but rather that most users of the space have
limited time and wish to spend that time on their own work and not that of
the community. They may also think "I`m not making the place dirty, why
should I clean". Given that most users create very little cleaning work
this is not too surprising. If those people stick to the basics, as the
majority do, (putting away equipment, putting dirty cups in the
dishwasher, clearing up their own food remains etc.)thus limiting their
impact on the space, then that of itself goes a long way towards making
the space more pleasant and the cleaning more manageable.
> I have to heartily disagree. People will generally help out if the
> cost-reward ratio for them, including time, is not too bad. Here,
> people are put off by all the PITAs in keeping things clean--finding
> supplies, reading labels, figuring out what to do so it is done
> "properly" so as not to invite criticism, etc. Get rid of all the
> PITA prep and lay things out step-by-step and there will be an
> increase in buy-in.
There is absolutely no question of criticism of anyone doing anything to
help keep the place clean. If, however,anyone can do a better job than the
last person they are positively encouraged to do it. No-one is going to
say "Hey, that`s my job!"
> Maybe the difference is that you are familiar with the details of
> cleaning in your career, so you know what it entails and that it is
> not hard.
> Most of our membership has minimal experience with those
> details, so it doesn't look easy. This project is about making it
> look easy.
My reference to my workplace was meant to illustrate the fact that a
little equipment goes a long way, not that there is any special skill
involved that requires detailed instruction. Further, I rather made the
assumption that most of us clean our own homes and so would be familiar
with the basic skills so making the provision of textbooks on the subject
a bit redundant.
> Yes, the tasks are not that complicated, but the problem is that there
> is a -perception- that they are, will take too much time, be too
> draining to bother, etc.>
> Yes, basic maintenance is the easy part and doesn't require too many
> tools, you're right. But the steep climb has to come first, which is
> to get everything into a decent state before simple maintenance can
> begin.
Steep climb?
And if you honestly believe someone is going to clean the hot
> oven every time it is used, sorry, this is not accurate.
Perhaps I am a bit optimistic here :-)
>
> Yes, you're right that we do not need all kinds of supplies (see
> vinegar comments), so I think your expertise would be a great addition
> when we need to decide on what necessities we do need.
> Finally, let me point out that your cleaners who clean your premises
> well are professionals who are paid to do that on a daily basis,
> unlike our membership, who pay to be here. Additionally, you
> supervise them and do not do the cleaning yourself, so I have to
> question your apparent assertion that you are an expert in how to make
> the process of cleaning itself more manageable.
Refer to my comments above re. tasks being similar to those that one might
perform at home. I am (and was before my present employment) quite capable
of all the tasks that are required here regardless of my relationship with
my staff. My comments are based on my out of work experience. I make no
claim to be an "expert".
> Keeping things under
> the sink is a lousy idea because it's dark, it's jumbled, and it's
> disorganized, simply be virtue of the fact that things are not clearly
> visually compartmentalized and visually available. Out of sight,
> cleaning things will remain out of mind. There is an inescapable
> "yuck" factor, and jumbles of stuff in buckets will dissuade anyone
> moreso than aesthetically-pleasing, accessible solutions would do.
There is plenty of space in said cupboard to lay out the goods and keep
them tidy. It is only dark when the door is closed.
>
> Mops on the balcony may also be a tripping hazard in a fire.
Not if they are hung on a couple of hooks clear of the floor....
>
> The bottom line is that people are not going to perform cleaningtasks,
> regularly, for free, forever, if the process is additionally
> damned annoying. Right now, it certainly is.
I have outlined what, in my humble opinion is a way forward that involves
the least work for whoever decides to deal with the issue. My belief is
that the current cleaning of the space is done by individuals for various
reasons unconnected with the display or otherwise of materials and and
that the same individuals will continue for their own reasons to perform
these tasks. I further believe that simply making sure that there is a
supply of suitable materials however they are stored will make life easier
for them and others who might wish to join in.
Phil
--
" et cognoscetis veritatem et veritas liberabit vos. "
Luke
We are, though it may be a few weeks before the cleaner I have
contacted is able to start.
Robert
Luke
Technology Will Save Us has just opened a kiosk in Rough Trade East, off Brick Lane :
Initial offerings include Arduino Uno, Sugru and a few kits.
As someone who has cleaned in the past, and who has motivated others to clean on more than one occasion, I definitely agree with your core observation: anything that removes obstacles to cleaning will be very helpful. And I do agree that this is as much about human psychology and laziness as it is about practicalities. Having cleaning supplies always be visible will make a big difference.
This discussion isn't as adversarial as you might think; Phil has been around for a while and put a lot of his time into Hackspace infrastructure work, I would expect him to have an opinion on how to make changes. But I also know him to be kind and supportive of other people's initiative.
m.
This might interest you too, at least for the holy goop!
So I've now laid out a bit of a vision, Phil has laid out a bit of his
vision, and from the input it sounds like there is some support for:
1) more visibility/accessibility of tools
2) greater formal codification of cleaning processes
We agree that cleanliness is an issue and that making would be more
efficient and enjoyable if things were organized, available and clean.
So where do we go from here, what is the next step?
m.
You can talk to Robert about how to get reimbursed for cleaning supplies.
Larger material costs (let's say > £30) are best addressed with a pledge drive.
m.
http://www.ikea.com/gb/en/catalog/products/90076364#/90076364/
for sorting rubbish. They stack, but you can still open them when stacked.
They probably weren't optimum for rubbish (didn't hold many cans,
presumably had to be unstacked to be emptied) but would be pretty good
for organising cleaning materials in a visible, accessible and tidy
way.
-adrian