Compound Mitre Saw pledge
Elliot West
- AbbyKatt
- spooq
Simon Howes
I'll have to drop this in in cash. Lloyds dont seem to want to let me pae the HS.
Adrian Godwin
not entirely sure if it was the same (it was the bigger of two such
saws that they sell) but it might be worth checking.
-adrian
Adrian Godwin
blades are £40 (possibly cheaper elsewhere). The Rage 3 220mm is £119.
-adrian
Russ Garrett
> I've checked this. The Rage 3 XL (250mm blade) is currently £159.
> blades are £40 (possibly cheaper elsewhere). The Rage 3 220mm is £119.
The XL was the one we were looking at, so if someone could go pick one
up from B&Q and send me the receipt, then we'll have a little surplus
cash left over for blades.
(The blades are £32 from Machine Mart as per the wiki page.)
--
Russ Garrett
ru...@garrett.co.uk
Charles Yarnold
tom
On Dec 17, 10:03 pm, Charles Yarnold <charlesyarn...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Unless someone says they have bought it I will be picking a Rage XL up on
> my way into the space tomorrow (sunday)
>
> Sol
>
> On 16 December 2011 22:49, Russ Garrett <r...@garrett.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
>
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>
> > On 16 December 2011 22:46, Adrian Godwin <artgod...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > I've checked this. The Rage 3 XL (250mm blade) is currently £159.
> > > blades are £40 (possibly cheaper elsewhere). The Rage 3 220mm is £119.
>
> > The XL was the one we were looking at, so if someone could go pick one
> > up from B&Q and send me the receipt, then we'll have a little surplus
> > cash left over for blades.
>
> > (The blades are £32 from Machine Mart as per the wiki page.)
>
> > --
> > Russ Garrett
Charles Yarnold
Elliot West
>
> Sol
RAAAARRGGHHH!!!
Thank you :)
Niels
Adrian Godwin
the lead. It's a little awkward but would be better than nothing. Was
that from Farnell ? Or some more convenient local retailer ?
-adrian
Adrian Godwin
that it can't be put in a socket.
-adrian
Kimball Johnson
Niels
the same keys. Bought for this purpose, actually.
Figured that anyone safe to play with a lathe is ok with
RAAAAGE!!!!!!! And visa versa....
On Dec 19, 10:08 am, Kimball Johnson <kimb...@bowerham.net> wrote:
> How amazingly low tech....
>
> On 19 December 2011 10:07, Adrian Godwin <artgod...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
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> > A quick method : get a large padlock and put it around the plug such
> > that it can't be put in a socket.
>
> > -adrian
>
> > On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 10:03 AM, Adrian Godwin <artgod...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Yes, probably something like the one on the lathe could be fitted in
> >> the lead. It's a little awkward but would be better than nothing. Was
> >> that from Farnell ? Or some more convenient local retailer ?
>
> >> -adrian
>
Tim Hutt
been waiting for the saw for so long!), but I'm not sure a key-stop is
definitely a good idea.
It will lead to the same kind of how-on-earth-do-I-get-a-key issues
that have happened with the lathe. Not that I want to bring it up
again but I sympathise with Glen -- I think I read the mailing list
fairly closely, and I don't recall any announcements about keys being
actually available, or who to contact about it, nor what you need to
do to be eligible to get the key, or when you can demonstrate
eligibility.
Furthermore, the safety implications of the circular saw are obvious.
It's a big freakin' saw blade! What exactly are you expecting people
with key to know that isn't completely obvious?
I just want you to be aware that there is a cost to adding a key-stop,
and I don't think there is a huge benefit. On the other hand I think
an oyster-card system would be much much more worth it, since access
can be easily added quickly and remotely, and if it gets broken you
will be able to tell who did it! Last I heard someone was actually
working on the tool access control system, so maybe it would be better
to wait for that...
Amran
It will lead to the same kind of how-on-earth-do-I-get-a-key issues
that have happened with the lathe. Not that I want to bring it up
again but I sympathise with Glen -- I think I read the mailing list
fairly closely, and I don't recall any announcements about keys being
actually available, or who to contact about it, nor what you need to
do to be eligible to get the key, or when you can demonstrate
eligibility.
Furthermore, the safety implications of the circular saw are obvious.
It's a big freakin' saw blade! What exactly are you expecting people
with key to know that isn't completely obvious?
I just want you to be aware that there is a cost to adding a key-stop,
and I don't think there is a huge benefit.
On the other hand I think
an oyster-card system would be much much more worth it, since access
can be easily added quickly and remotely, and if it gets broken you
will be able to tell who did it! Last I heard someone was actually
working on the tool access control system, so maybe it would be better
to wait for that...
Charles Yarnold
Tim Hutt
> i suspect glens frustration is an isolated incident.
Well, two isolated incidents -- I was frustrated too! Not to the
extent that Glen was though because I didn't pay for any of the lathe.
I did pay for some of the fury (with rage technology) though!
> perhaps the process for issuing keys and guidance for obtaining one needs to
> be more thoroughly defined by the community. its not really clear at the
> moment
Yes.
> theres a big benefit. at the very least, a brief safety introduction. i
> wouldnt hesitate using the rage saw, but there are definitely
> features/functions that i dont know or realise, which would help me use the
> thing safely and *correctly* and not like some arrogant cowboy (wouldnt be
> my first time - see my previous 'oops' emails over mini bandsaw blades etc)
Yeah I can the need see with the lathe, and the bandsaw, because
they're both relatively complicated to use. But there really is
nothing to the saw. I just can't think what you'd say in a brief
safety introduction... "Make sure things that should be locked or
clamped are. Don't put you hands under the blade!". Doesn't seem worth
it. Or at least it is so trivial you could put it in a video, and add
a label saying "You must have watched this 3 minute
instructional/safety video before using: ..." I think that would be
far less annoying and just as effective.
If people agree to this by Tuesday, I will even make such a video (I'm
temporarily in London until then).
Kimball Johnson
> a label saying "You must have watched this 3 minute
> instructional/safety video before using: ..." I think that would be
> far less annoying and just as effective.
>
> If people agree to this by Tuesday, I will even make such a video (I'm
> temporarily in London until then).
I would say such a video would be useful, even if a key system is
still decided on. Going to be much easier to do a safety briefing if
a video has already been watched.
Kimball
Niels
measure.
An oyster card system is obviously the full solution.
I have observed an attempt to use the lathe that was dangerous. In
addition, on several occasions I have witnessed a failure to
understand that power tools have a secondary function as projectile
launchers. The Rage has a substantial capability in this area.
In addition, it is quite easy to ruin the blade and the alignment on a
tool like this.
Dave Ingram
cutter, etc). Sounds like a useful way to get to know them, or to
refresh your memory.
D
Martin Klang
<£0.02-warning>
On the subject of key-locks, access restriction, and compulsory training:
Machines like the lathe are complicated to use and provide innumerable ways for an unexperienced user to cause damage to themselves and/or the equipment.
Even with their best intentions and common sense in sufficient supply.
Therefore compulsory training and a lock is, imho, well justified.
However the chop saw is a very straightforward tool: it has a sharp blade which spins very fast and eats fingers. This _is_ obvious.
Training is always a good thing, and I'd be up for learning more from an experienced member: how to do complicated cuts et c.
However what training is so important, from a safety point of view, that it must be compulsory?
- Don't use to trim your nails.
- Don't stop blade with hand.
The workshop, being a workshop, will never be 'safe', there are always ways to hurt yourself with tools.
Perhaps we can make this clear at the entrance, perhaps we write a disclaimer to the effect that no-one must use any tool they don't know how to use.
But, word of note, talking down to members will set us on a path where we end up behaving like the children we treat ourselves as.
/m
Martin Klang
tl;dr
everything in my mail was already said <=20mins ago.
/mx
Niels
Mostly in the relm of not clamping stuff properly first. The first
time something goes zinging across the space it is entertaining... The
third time it is just annoying to be franks
The other issue is what happened to the chop saw that was brought into
the space earlier - the blade was blunted extremely rapidly. I wonder
how many £40 blades we will go through in a year.
Amran
If people agree to this by Tuesday, I will even make such a video (I'm
temporarily in London until then).
Amran
I have observed an attempt to use the lathe that was dangerous. In
addition, on several occasions I have witnessed a failure to
understand that power tools have a secondary function as projectile
launchers. The Rage has a substantial capability in this area.
In addition, it is quite easy to ruin the blade and the alignment on a
tool like this.
Russ Garrett
> The other issue is what happened to the chop saw that was brought into
> the space earlier - the blade was blunted extremely rapidly. I wonder
> how many £40 blades we will go through in a year.
Given the claims made by the manufacturer, I'm quite interested in the
activities you could conduct which would blunt the blade...
--
Russ Garrett
ru...@garrett.co.uk
Tim Hutt
> The Rage has a substantial capability in this area.
Really? I agree with the lathe, but I'm not sure how it would be
possible to launch something with the rage... even if I were trying!
Mark Steward
Adrian Godwin
maybe the makerbot.
It's going to have to be a moderately sized box with network
connectivity. I don't see that being very convenient for a bench saw,
unless we bolt it down. I guess we could spec a small reader box too,
but let's get the initial ones done first.
I agree the saw is simple and obvious, but so are plenty of tools,
including hand tools. Some people use them respectfully, safely and
carefully. Some people don't. I don't see how we can distinguish
between the two without some form of handover, even if it's only 'can
has key ?' / 'here you go; live long & prosper'.
It is frustrating to be unable to use a tool that you feel you're
entitled / capable of using. But that only happens until you get a
key. If it's broken through abuse every time you want to use it (see
makerbot ..) then you have that problem forever.
-adrian
Adrian Godwin
Russ, I'm surprised at you. Believing a salesman ? :)
I have no doubt that the blade will be dull in a month and useless in
a couple of months. I won't be very surprised if it only lasts a week.
Problem is, if we don't know who used it we'll have no way of finding
out exactly what the activities are. We've been there before!
-adrian
Russ Garrett
> I have no doubt that the blade will be dull in a month and useless in
> a couple of months. I won't be very surprised if it only lasts a week.
> Problem is, if we don't know who used it we'll have no way of finding
> out exactly what the activities are. We've been there before!
Not to mention that we have no idea what activities will result in it
being blunted...
--
Russ Garrett
ru...@garrett.co.uk
Dirk-Willem van Gulik
>
> Training is always a good thing, and I'd be up for learning more from an experienced member: how to do complicated cuts et c.
Not sure that is always the case. Having observed things now for a year (and with sea of bit of a chance from the Archery place) I think it is absolutely called for to give our peers a bit more handholding and help when it comes to a lot of the equipment in the space. And foster a bit of a culture of asking and helping around:
- Help/show people how to clamp things safely.
- Forster an understanding what the different types of saw blades and drill types are for. Why certain things have a fine tooth and others are designed more for hammering.
- What chisels are for; what flatbed screwdrivers are for and how they are best used.
- Help people understand the benefit of having some scrap metal/wood under something they are drilling/sawing/etc on.
- Caution/help with the amount of force applied to (electrical) drills, saws, sanders and what not.
and so on. So perhaps it is not bad to start things off a bit safer; make most electrical things work on a key or oyster card - and have use of these be subject to a bit of training -and- implicitly the promise that you'll also help foster good use/training from thereon. Or alternatively - perhaps consider that we have a bit of a rota of someone helping during certain hours once you have a key. I found that doing that is usually not that time consuming (and good for your own health - it is amazing what flies through the space!) - as there are not that many people working at the same time.
Dw.
Simon Howes
I have this saw at home
And use it regularly
You can cut some things *without* clamping them, like thick metal bar. But you have to put other things like thin or round metal bar in a vice. Its terrifying when you make a misjudgment on this - the first and last time that happened to me scared me out of my wits, chewed up a piece of hexstock and took a few teeth of the blade, lucky it didnt engage launch capability.
Any sort of lock is needed. Even if just to protect other people
Niels
card system is setup. Either that or I implement my other plan for
tool protection... {evil laugh}