Sustainability Group/project

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Tiny Rick

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Nov 26, 2016, 5:48:14 PM11/26/16
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Hi all,

I'm currently prototyping a hobby/project which looks at generating electricity from movement.

Am inviting all members who are interested in issues such as climate change mitigation, sustainability, cleantech or sourcing energy from alternative sources to join in on the project. I'm usually around HS in the evenings.

Additionally, would like to know if there is any interest in starting a new group based around sustainability which could meet up an evening during the week.
Reply on the post if you'd be interested (and perhaps the day/time which you'd prefer to meet) for that so I could get an idea of the level of interest etc.


Thanks,
TinyRick


Adrian Godwin

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Nov 26, 2016, 6:48:17 PM11/26/16
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In general, it's a bad idea to extract energy from something that requires energy input already : it makes it cost more to run. But there may be some applications where the energy input is accidental (eg wind moving the trees) and the movement wasted in frictional losses.




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Diego Vega

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Nov 26, 2016, 7:48:59 PM11/26/16
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Hi, Tiny! 
I'm an architect and I used to work with sustainability certification and I'm made some commercial and residential projects with the sustainability approach.
I'm very interesting to talk with you to understand better what you have in mind!

Regards

Vega

Tiny Rick

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Nov 27, 2016, 2:45:54 PM11/27/16
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It could be energy projects like Pavegen. The focus is more on looking into as many alternative and renewable forms of energy generation as possible and maybe putting a solution together at the HS. But yes, solutions which run on incidental movement (like the project below which turns the movement of passing cars into energy and also act as an air filter for the passing traffic). There are a ton of interesting projects out there. the main aim is to try to reduce the effects of climate change even though it might only make a tiny difference. It's also kind of fun.

 Graphic showing how the roadside wind turbines from cars captures energy.
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Tiny Rick

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Nov 27, 2016, 2:51:10 PM11/27/16
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HI Vega, great! see you at 3D print training as we might both be there then.

Adrian Godwin

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Nov 27, 2016, 3:17:42 PM11/27/16
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Arguably, that captures turbulence that would otherwise be lost energy. But it's an enormously inefficient way of doing it : the better you make it work, the less efficient the cars become. If you really wanted to save energy over the whole system, you'd aim to make the cars create less turbulence. The same goes for anything attempting to capture lost energy : it's more efficient to not lose it in the first place than to capture a small proportion of it. Building the turbines has an energy footprint too.

On Sun, Nov 27, 2016 at 7:51 PM, Tiny Rick <fml1...@tutanota.com> wrote:
HI Vega, great! see you at 3D print training as we might both be there then.

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Tiny Rick

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Nov 28, 2016, 2:02:37 PM11/28/16
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Unsure about the point of the post; if it captures lost energy then that's great. Think that's a very physics-based approach to the problem as opposed to a real-world one, as energy is lost from a number of different sources currently anyhow and making an 100% efficient process isn't possible (as far as I'm aware). Capturing a proportion of the energy available even if it's small seems ok as the aim is to make small-scale, do-able and interesting projects. Even if the turbines have an energy footprint it would be important to have one that isn't damaging to the environment.

Diego Vega

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Nov 29, 2016, 6:38:51 AM11/29/16
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Tiny, are you planning to go this week to LHS? If yes, tell me when and I see if is possible for me, I'm living near of LHS. Cheers


On 28 Nov 2016 19:02, "Tiny Rick" <fml1...@tutanota.com> wrote:
Unsure about the point of the post; if it captures lost energy then that's great. Think that's a very physics-based approach to the problem as opposed to a real-world one, as energy is lost from a number of different sources currently anyhow and making an 100% efficient process isn't possible (as far as I'm aware). Capturing a proportion of the energy available even if it's small seems ok as the aim is to make small-scale, do-able and interesting projects. Even if the turbines have an energy footprint it would be important to have one that isn't damaging to the environment.

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Scooby

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Nov 29, 2016, 7:19:54 AM11/29/16
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Fantastic! been waiting years for a group such as this to be rooted, count me in and you have my full support.

I'm around often just give me a nudge when you see me next at the space to start the ball rolling. And Billy Smith no doubt will also be up for this.

Best Scooby.




frank filardo

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Nov 29, 2016, 11:17:20 AM11/29/16
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Leaving the interesting question of "physics vs. real world" :S to one side, the type of projects you are talking about are often known as "energy scavenging" technologies. They don't harvest large amounts of energy but if they tap waste energy off in a location that is otherwise hard to supply (like inside a vibrating bit of vehicle suspension) then energy scavenging devices can be very useful for powering sensors etc.

I actually have an idea for use on bicycles to power lights etc, but I like to think it exists in the overlap of a Venn diagram where "physics" and "real world" completely eclipse oneanother.
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Tiny Rick

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Nov 29, 2016, 11:31:43 AM11/29/16
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Haha, good point.

Sounds interesting, hope to catch you around the HS sometime.

(Will likely stop replying on the mailing list now due to having a couple of other things to do - however can be found around most evenings :)

Adrian Godwin

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Nov 29, 2016, 12:08:47 PM11/29/16
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I'm not saying it shouldn't or couldn't be done. The point is that you do have to look at the bigger picture. It's all very well having a prototype that recovers some energy, but typically that ignores the cost of building it (a prototype won't be representative) and the cost of scaling it.

For example, lets say you make a devoice form scrap that cooks a meal in the leakage from a hot water system. That's great, right ? Cost nothing and uses waste heat ?

But if you productionised that and implemented across the world you'd be wasting far more heat than if you insulated the water system properly and  cooked the meal separately. Or maybe used a different leak that wasn't so easy to stop.


On Mon, Nov 28, 2016 at 7:02 PM, Tiny Rick <fml1...@tutanota.com> wrote:
Unsure about the point of the post; if it captures lost energy then that's great. Think that's a very physics-based approach to the problem as opposed to a real-world one, as energy is lost from a number of different sources currently anyhow and making an 100% efficient process isn't possible (as far as I'm aware). Capturing a proportion of the energy available even if it's small seems ok as the aim is to make small-scale, do-able and interesting projects. Even if the turbines have an energy footprint it would be important to have one that isn't damaging to the environment.

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Neil Munro

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Nov 30, 2016, 3:47:17 PM11/30/16
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Hi TinyRick,
Likewise also interested in sustainability. 
Co-incidentally am going to ramp up a couple of projects over the next few months. 
Will not discuss anything here as am likely to get flamed, but am specifically interested in energy reduction in contexts.
Looks like there are some interested folks. Want to stick a stake in the sand can we set a date as I travel from afar (Saff London)...
BR
Neil

Tiny Rick

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Dec 1, 2016, 5:13:43 PM12/1/16
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Hi Neil, sounds great! you could suggest a time if you want, I'm free to meet most evenings.

Neil Munro

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Dec 2, 2016, 8:38:21 AM12/2/16
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Look forward to meeting. Tuesday coming?
I can do anytime. 11am, 2pm or 7pm if you are at work....

TinyRick

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Dec 2, 2016, 12:34:24 PM12/2/16
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Hi Neil (and all other potentially interested people!),

May be able to make this Tuesday 2pm, will confirm again after the weekend

Neil Munro

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Dec 5, 2016, 7:10:17 AM12/5/16
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Rick, I am going to be up on Wednesday as am helping Dean out working on the Interact machine. so if thats any better, could save me a trip.... But happy to travel both days if necessary....

Tiny Rick

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Dec 5, 2016, 3:50:53 PM12/5/16
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No worries, Wednesday is fine. Bumped into someone today and it was mentioned that evenings are a better time to meet, so would Weds in the evening be possible?

Note to interested parties who can't make Wednesdays: do mention a time that would be convenient for you so we can figure out when the best time to meet might be.

Cheers
TinyRick

Neil Munro

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Dec 6, 2016, 5:55:14 AM12/6/16
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Thanks TinkRick. I will be there for the day and evening..

TinyRick

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Dec 7, 2016, 12:24:31 PM12/7/16
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Hi am here just doing a couple of things if you're around, stuck a note on the back of chair near the Dalek detailing the meet time/place.
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