Re: [london-hack-space] Re: Laser cutter out of order

[Lex Robinson]

Stefan,

Could you please start writing shorter emails?

This one was 4 screen lengths long on my large phone.
I'm sure with a little effort and maybe some help from online tools you could get your point across in far fewer words. Currently it's quite hard to understand you.

Thanks!

On Thu, 21 Jul 2016, 06:42 Stefan Sabo, <stefan.do...@gmail.com> wrote:

Ad Hipster & my suggestion for maintenance / training position for him:

Apologies, as I do not have any information as there is legal objection (eg. court order), more of people suggest him on site to this position, looks, nobody have knowledge about this.

Ad joke or not joke on  IRC:

Is really easy NOW, when someone take it on table, say, as it was joke.

There is more then 10 another conversation, which I can suggest to review, which support meaning, as it is wan not taken as joke. May be as act of braving theatre 

At IRC at general:

There is always lot of discussion about real situation at space.

Accusing, blaming and intimidating of other members is GENERAL and OBVIOUS manner, which you can find there at group of 10 people, included both LC maintaners and Tgreer also (have not ban recently especially for it?)

As I am not connected on IRC personally all time (I try avoid this sick place) it does not mean, as I have not there my bot, which grab me conversation with concretely mentions. Also at past days, I get personal emails from couple of people, who send me some part of this conversation (even, it is cross/double, I know it).

It is also obvious, as some people call us, regulars at space, JOBLESS and SHITS on IRC...

It is stand alone reason to take grievance procedure against them. 

Unfortunatelly, I am not lucky as foreign with limited English, to have 50k per annum before tax job. I am lucky, as I was end  my job at kitchen, and after short gap, have now good part time job, with opportunity to change it to full time  after proper training and probation period. And yes, I have more spare time. And if you do not noticed, within last 2 months I try avoid be at space at nights, my obvious time is 4:30 to 11:59 AM, but sometimes, if I have something to do, stay easily 24 or 36 hours and make my own hackaton :-)

It is also obvious, as we are called live-in guardians, or caretakers... 

Ok, I cant protest about it, because if not some of us, level of rubish and dirty place is growing up. Yes, we take care about basic enviroment at space. Anybody try contribute how he can.

But back to theme...

I do not need laser cutter desperately. Only what I need, is cut 15x15cm plates x 3 to make my business cards, which going out of stock. :-)

I have opportunity use another 2 HackSpace Laser Cutters nearby (not really) or in emergency, there is MachineRoom and their 15 quid per first and 10 quids per following hours, which is very serious price.

You are not at space, and can not see lot of people, who  come to do some project on LC, and gone sadly without it. At last 2 weeks it could be more then dozen different people.

Hinge is broken not from 15/7, it is minimum ONE month and it was mentioned  on ML already.

Problem with maintainers and trainers will continue, up to current maintainers will really replaced.

At this moment, anybody who step up with request, as would like be maintainer, need to count with refusal and especially, w/out take any serious reason or explanation.

It is very interesting, as some proclamations above need to be shortly taken back, because it shown as not true.

And, as was wrote above, more transparency and some kind of information continously can help avoid question of people.

p.s.: and now, you can againt blame me on IRC, how you doing it always. It is really nice footage, how this space now running sick. There is regulars, who are attended at space. There is ML monkeys, and IRC enforcement group. Especially last one group goes behind the border lot of times.

Dne čtvrtek 21. července 2016 1:58:05 UTC+1 Andy Tidman napsal(a):

 just to be clear i have never been a maintainer on the laser cutter.
 i am willing to help in any way i can just let me know

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[Charles Yarnold]

I'm happy to say that we always have room for improvement, will try to communicate more. In this case issues rolled into issues and we put our effort into getting it fixed rather than communication to the list.

There is a log for the silver tail, its not linked as with the previous cutter people mistook it to be where to log jobs and to be used to refer to to try to attempt fixes without contacting the maintainers. As the log is a tool to help the maintainers I don't see an issue with not publicising it.

On 21 July 2016 at 23:27, 'Nigel Worsley' via London Hackspace <london-h...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Charles Yarnold wrote:
> no news is no news, not us with holding news on repairs

Really? So why did it take 8 days from the laser cutter being out of
action to a message telling us that it was awaiting a replacement
hinge, leading many people to (incorrectly) assume that the
maintainers hadn't had a chance to even look at the problem yet, and
that therefore more maintainers are required?

The laser maintainers would have a much easier time if they kept the
members up to date on progress of repairs, instead of saying nothing
until they get fed up of the complaints directed at them.

> there is a log on the wiki.

If there is, then I can't find it.

I think the maintainers generally do an excellent job, but better
communication would help everyone.

Nigle

[Charles Yarnold]

You made suggestions to me in person about changes to the lasercutter wiki, I requested you didn't make them and gave reasoning. You did it anyway. I reverted the changes.

If that's enough to make you leave I have nothing weighing on my conscience about it.

On 21 July 2016 at 22:13, 'A S' via London Hackspace <london-h...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Vague notions without indication of when or what, like you're telling Billy? Billy can't recall, and neither can I recall you ever explaining to him why he is not suitable to be a maintainer. I recall him asking numerous times and having it waved away, or otherwise ignored. If you have previously detailed it, I'm sure you'll have no problem linking it.

Here, I'll go first with the specific explanations. The incidents where I was improving the wiki and you kept reverting me, citing vague notions and woo-merchanting to signal there were issues, without actually giving any incidents or proof. (Perhaps there's a theme here.)
Your attitude and behaviours towards me encouraged me to stop being a member, and actively avoid all contact with you ever since.

Your turn for specifics.

On 21 Jul 2016 18:25, "Charles Yarnold" <charles...@gmail.com> wrote:

Again vague notions an woo-merchanting to signal there are issues without actually giving any incidents or proof. You say you cant speak to others discontent, but then don't site any incidents or actions taken by me for your own. Just FUD slinging.

On 21 July 2016 at 16:02, 'A S' via London Hackspace <london-h...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Proof of other's discontent? Of course not; even if I did, I wouldn't violate their confidence.
As for my discontent, that stems from the incidents leading up to me ceasing my membership for a year, a couple of years back.

I have kept a wide berth from you since then to avoid further conflict, but recently, other members who have had contact with you have privately told me that they have also taken issue. Instead of all of us just avoiding you, perhaps it's time to directly address the issue.

On 21 Jul 2016 2:06 p.m., "Charles Yarnold" <charles...@gmail.com> wrote:

On 21 July 2016 at 09:47, 'A S' via London Hackspace <london-h...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

[...]This discontent precedes Dean, from members' own experiences with Charles,[...]

Do you have any proof of this or can even give these instances? Seriously, what have I done preceding Dean to give people these experiences. I'm done with a small group throwing around this rubbish at me with no recourse for their personal attacks. 

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