Members boxes clear & cleanup (2 week warning)

[Peter "Sci" Turpin]

Had a chat with Andy Tidman this evening. We'd like to go through the
members boxes again as some expired ones may have been missed last time.
There's also other issues to address and it will give us the chance to
assemble more shelving.

There's a lot of boxes overflowing, boxes that are smashed, improperly
labelled, loose items and a few overloading the shelves. Some damaged
shelves will need to be emptied to allow them to be replaced or
repaired. There's also items in the aisles that shouldn't be there.

We talked about giving roughly 2 weeks warning so people could get their
boxes in order, collect overflowing items, etc. It's not a hard
schedule, but we won't be doing it before that two weeks is up. So it
may happen at any point from the 7th onward.

Question:

We did wonder what to do with boxes that are overloaded to the point
they're making shelves bow. I think not overloading to the point they
break boxes or damage the shelves has always been a "common sense"
thing, so there's no actual rule on how much a box should weigh.

My personal inclination would be that any box loaded enough that the
plastic is cracking or the shelf is bowing should be considered
overloaded and get put aside for the owner to be contacted and address.

[Henry Best]

How about moving the overweight boxes to the floor below the bottom shelf?

[Peter "Sci" Turpin]

I have visions of people screaming "where'd my box go??" at me a lot
before they bother to look down.

> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "London Hackspace" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
> an email to london-hack-sp...@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:london-hack-sp...@googlegroups.com>.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[Dave Mansfield]

Phrasing :D

> <mailto:london-hack-space+unsub...@googlegroups.com>.

[Peter "Sci" Turpin]

Bumping to remind minimum safe distance is now one week away.

[Ant Invent]

If your box is labelled properly, not overflowing and not over-loading the shelf is it safe?

[Peter "Sci" Turpin]

And still a paid up member, yeah.

[Ant Invent]

Awesome :)

[Peter "Sci" Turpin]

It is now the 7th. The two-week warning has expired. Box clearance &
sorting may now occur at any time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWv72L4wgCc

On 23/06/2016 01:45, Peter "Sci" Turpin wrote:

[Toria]

I haven't had much time to visit lately. I don't think my box overloads the shelves, but how would I know if it's to be removed? Are you going to post pictures or attempt to contact box-havers?

[Peter "Sci" Turpin]

Nothing will be disposed of right away unless (perhaps) we find boxes of
ex-members who've left the country for good, or boxes of those who
haven't been members for extended lengths of time (like those boxes from
2012).
We will be watching out for any items that aren't permitted though, like
packets of food or hazardous materials.

I'll be making a list of everything that changes. If there's boxes
belonging to people who've not been members for a little while, we'll
put them to one side so we can attempt contact before disposing of the
contents. If a box is overloaded or overflowing, I think we'll be
putting the overflow is a separate box and contacting the owner to
submit a storage request or remove it.

I'll try to transcribe the resulting list to the mailing list.

I think the highest risk of sudden disposal of items will be anyone
putting their overflowing items straight back on top of their boxes
again instead of seeking storage permission.

[Giacomo Giacomo]

Will you be taking pictures of the boxes/box space on the shelves when you begin?  There would be a lot of images, but it could help mitigate the panic when someone wonders where their gubbins have got to.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "London Hackspace" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to london-hack-sp...@googlegroups.com.

[Paddy Duncan]

Sci,

Please note that a lot of members have email addresses only visible to
admins on the membership DB, and as in previous clearouts the attempted
contacts should be done via/including these. PM me and we'll organise a
suitable method of enabling it..
And thanks.
Paddy

[Paddy Duncan]

PS that also applies to lengths and times of membership......

On 8 July 2016 2:05:05 am "Peter \"Sci\" Turpin" <s...@sci-fi-fox.com> wrote:

[Peter "Sci" Turpin]

Paddy,
I'm aware of this. The clearout will be with me providing the bulk of
the physical labour and Andy Tidman using his trustee account to check
the database and make any necessary judgement calls with authority.

[Peter "Sci" Turpin]

I've been thinking; it would probably be wise to quantify what's
considered an overloaded box in advance.

I believe each shelf unit is rated to carry 200Kg. Each contains 12
boxes, but only 10 of each are actually on the shelving (bottom row
rests directly on the floor. This would set a hard potential upper limit
on per-box/space weight of 20Kg.

I doubt however that the BigDug VUB30 boxes we use will be able to
handle anywhere near that weight. As it is they crack and break with
much less in.
There's no hard spec for the VUB30 weight loading that I can find, only
it's volume. We could do with actually testing this. Perhaps see at what
weight the handles start to bend? I'll be surprised if they're sound
loaded with 10Kg.

Also 20Kg is potentially quite dangerous when being stored above
head-heights, and the most overflowing boxes already seem to be those on
the top shelves due to the free space above.

We should also order more boxes in in advance of the clearup. I think we
only have five or six used empty boxes currently. We'll need some more to;
- Replace damaged boxes
- Temporarily store box overflow items awaiting members attention
- For fresh use on new shelving

If memory serves, new boxes are a "buy it yourself and submit the
receipt" item, yes?

On 23/06/2016 01:45, Peter "Sci" Turpin wrote:

[Stefan Sabo]

For example, from my first days, when I change Club Mate cardboard box to plastic one, I use box bought from Amazon, with dimensions:

43cm x 38cm x 32cm high (I would like use 36 cm, but not all shelves can accomodate more then 35 cm)

which is classified as 35 L box.

It same, as you can buy at most Stationary shops across London (one per 13 GBP, or 3 each per 9 GBP) and can vary with color and transparency level.

It really depend, what you store inside, how heavy will be. It is simply different, if you accommodate inside 4 pcs of very heavy batteries, which each can have up to 25 kg :-) (no, I believe as nobody make something like this, it is forbidden and dangerous) or you will have inside cables, and small things...

I have another, BIG box, I believe, it have 80 to 100 litres, which accommodate my storage request. And yes, this one is very heavy, due things, which are inside.  It accomodate 3 in 1 or most likely LOTs in 1 projects, which I have allowed by ONE storage request.

It is little bit not really OK, probably, should be requested each project separately and in one moment have 3 different storage requests, flowing in time and make more and more mess at system, with passed deadlines, separate announcements on ML, etc etc etc.

It is my 3rd turn at this system, it always start on begin of request with some amount, which, in 1/3 grow up, and then in middle is less and less things inside, how projects go ahead. At end, I try always spare parts give away to other members, which can use them (Hi Andy T. & Patrick D. at first row :-))) which are my general recipients of spare parts. :-) but not only them :-)

It looks complicated, but:

- save storage system mess

- allow working on 3 to 4 general projects flowing at time scale, in order, which can vary time to time, depend how much spare time I have

- avoid "passed deadline" X times, it is risk for one time, but I guess, I do not have this problem in the past.

System is, as Members box I using for "daily parts", means parts and stuff, which I using obviously, when I am at space.

Sometimes move few things into "storage box"  when know, as will not work on it for 2 weeks.

If know, as something take more time as I have and need to postpone or abadone project, I move stuff to commercial storage, which I use generaly for personal things.

This system allow me to be maximum flexible as I can, but also, do not make any mess downstairs, because everything is nicely inside one of this boxes, no alongside, on top, or somewhere near. Of course, this i not good idea for all people, it can be handle only for small or medium stuff, which is able accommodate into boxes. 

[Richard Patterson]

Stefan, is this a diary entry to the mailing list on how you're gaming the storage system?

--

[Stefan Sabo]

@Richard:

I do not understand, why it should be "gaming"  storage system...

People working on several projects, some people working on one by one system, another make system like  me, as have 3 general projects, which working on simultanously. I prefer have all in one storage request, before have 3 boxes, alongisde my member box, all of them on another storage request ticket, and  all of them take space from first to last moment without change.

What I do is, as I continously in time reduce value of space, which I using, simply because when I finish par of projects which I working on it, it not coming to be replaced by another, but make space, which can be reduced.

Yes, I can ask for 3 separate tickets, 3 separate boxes, which will be on place absolutely same time, because I don know, if today will working on this, or on this, that means, as I have all of them allowed and prepared by hand. 

And , on top, I have ALL on one place, not need to have one box there, another one on another place and acrylic plates absolutely at another place. Means not need occupied 3 different places at basement.

And at least, you can check my storage requests in the past, there is ALWAYS described, as it is about 3 or more projects, accomodate in one box, and how it handle with it, included updates, and always are finished on time, or if abadoned / postponed, it is clearly stated why. 

But, as always, if someone is open and fully transparent, it is suspicious for most of ML monkeys, because it is different way...

[Giacomo Giacomo]

Stefan has on countless times has been friendly and helpful.

> For example, from my first days, when I change Club Mate cardboard box to plastic one, I use 

> box bought from Amazon, with dimensions:

Did you grab an empty cardboard box and then buy your own plastic tub, instead of locating an official members box?

Please don't call me a ML Monkey.

--

[Stefan Sabo]

@Giac0m0:

In concretely time, when I need change uncomfort (for me) carboard /which was supposed to me by one of trustees as good TEMPORARILY solution/ box to plastic one, was NOT any official boxes empty, then,

yes,

I buy my own box by Amazon, with similar size (official are 30L I guess, I have 35L, yes 5 litres over)

and

yes,

I using this box as my members box (please look to camera #3 now, you can see it on black table alongside ME just now) without any complain about it from anyone.

It is probably not right one type, but it is probably acceptable as own.



Dne neděle 10. července 2016 11:16:33 UTC+1 Giac0m0 napsal(a):

[Paddy Duncan]

Be advised, that any similar-sized box is fine, the only 'official' thing about the boxes bought by the Hackspace is that they were bought by the Hackspace.

Using semantics to suggest wrongdoing is not fair.

Paddy

[Giacomo Giacomo]

*waves* hello Stefan on Camera 3.  I apologise to you if I have misunderstood. I am not semantically suggesting wrongdoing.  

My understanding was that boxes and spaces on shelves were linked.  This system prevents members from sourcing their own boxes to then finding an unsuitable space to house the box, outside of the storage system.

https://wiki.london.hackspace.org.uk/view/Project:Box_identification

I raised the same concern and had this dialogue on the 6th of January, without an answer:

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/london-hack-space/-5DffhiZ9Oo/8Sla_v5jDwAJ 
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/london-hack-space/-5DffhiZ9Oo/dJX7DkhqDwAJ

I waited over nine months to check, find and locate a members box and space that I could use.  I'm sure there's plenty of other members who'd love to use or share a storage box.  This question was asked as it sounded like circumnavigating the storage process and I expected Stefan to confirm that he wasn't. 

I won't ask about it again.

[Paddy Duncan]

Oh I see, apologies….

And can state quite officially that there is no connection between the locations and the boxes occupying them.

People move their boxes quite a lot, and I can’t see any regulation regarding that getting any serious support.

Yes that project was the reason for the locations beings marked, but the shelves have been added to, moved, etc., so even them alone no longer make much sense.

[Philip Roy]

UDL of 200kg is *per shelf* so each box can weigh 100kg (that`s nearly as
much as me...)
Good luck trying to move any "overloaded" boxes.

Cracked boxes are usually due to impact rather than overloading.
Bent shelves are usually caused by vertically challenged persons using the
shelves as a ladder.

There is a danger that this job is going to be bikeshedded to death.I
would suggest that it be restricted to identifying and removing any boxes
that should not be there at all and removing all the stuff that is on the
floor in the gangways.

Stuff that is confined to the shelves and not in imminent danger of poking
someones eye out should be left alone. Loose stuff on top of boxes can
reasonably be assumed to belong to the owner of the box. If it is causing
no problem leave it there. (unless there is some clever scheme to use the
couple of inches or so of space freed up by its removal).


Phil
--
" et cognoscetis veritatem et veritas liberabit vos "On Sat, 09 Jul 2016
18:09:10 +0100, Peter "Sci"

[Patrick Dent]

Well said. I'm coming down later to unload my box which is getting rather heavy with old scavengings (mostly angle metal and motors); then I can try and put my camera dolly project inside the box rather than on top of it.
It actually exceeds the dimensions of the box slightly when assembled and during prototyping I very rarely like to dismantle it entirely (lots of wires and assorted pieces that have to be bolted together) which is why it sits on top of the box currently on the top shelf.

[Peter "Sci" Turpin]

If it's 200Kg per shelf rather than per rack, then I think that heads
off any potential bikeshedding pretty sharpish. The possible upper limit
is way above what could be conceivably lifted onto the shelves in the
first place.

I'd still like to have a reasonable stock of fresh boxes ready in
advance of the clearup however, as those reasons still stand.

[Peter "Sci" Turpin]

Okay, we'll be aiming to do this on Saturday this week.

That'll be near enough a months warning at that point, so you can't say
you haven't been warned. ;P