umami taste

[la arxokuna]

{krumami}

x1 has umami taste to observer x2.

Etymology: Romance [karo], Mandarin [rou4] ("meat"), Japanese [umami]

[gunnar...@hotmail.com]

There aren't gismu for all the accepted ground tastes? I'm surprised.

krumami - x1 has an umami taste to observer x2.
titla - x1 is sweet/sugary/saccharine to observer x2.
slari - x1 is sour/tart to observer x2.
kurki - x1 is bitter/acrid/sharply disagreeable to observer/sense x2.

So far so good. But then:

silna - x1 is a portion/quantity of salt from source x2, of composition including x3.

Surely a bare "silna" can't be good to use in this context since it actually refers to the physical salt (which is not clear, are we strictly speaking NaCl here or all salts - ionic compounds?).

Good you added krumami. That is extremely welcomed by me. But, I would considering changing the definition to be more in line with the others. My proposal:
krumami - x1 is umami to observer x2.

(...Ehm. You may ignore the above. I actually thought umami was an adjective as well in English, since that would be logical. Unfortunately, I can't find any proof of it.)

Still. I miss the:
x1 is salty to observer x2

Am I missing something?

mi'e la .gusek. mu'o

[la arxokuna]

On Friday, July 26, 2013 4:16:28 AM UTC+4, la gusek. wrote:

There aren't gismu for all the accepted ground tastes? I'm surprised.

krumami - x1 has an umami taste to observer x2.
titla - x1 is sweet/sugary/saccharine to observer x2.
slari - x1 is sour/tart to observer x2.
kurki - x1 is bitter/acrid/sharply disagreeable to observer/sense x2.

So far so good. But then:

silna - x1 is a portion/quantity of salt from source x2, of composition including x3.

Surely a bare "silna" can't be good to use in this context since it actually refers to the physical salt (which is not clear, are we strictly speaking NaCl here or all salts - ionic compounds?).

Good you added krumami. That is extremely welcomed by me. But, I would considering changing the definition to be more in line with the others. My proposal:
krumami - x1 is umami to observer x2.

(...Ehm. You may ignore the above. I actually thought umami was an adjective as well in English, since that would be logical. Unfortunately, I can't find any proof of it.)

Still. I miss the:
x1 is salty to observer x2

Am I missing something?

{silnyselvu'i} but yes, something is extremely patchy here. What else can cause sweet taste if not sugars? Oops, other chemicals can do that too? Then we might need a word. Not mentioning that {vrusi} itself is highly natlangish (although may be useful but not for this case). See this

[MorphemeAddict]

Of course, "umami" can also be an adjective in English. All you have to do is use it that way. 

stevo

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[la arxokuna]

On Saturday, July 27, 2013 12:20:42 AM UTC+4, stevo wrote:

Of course, "umami" can also be an adjective in English. All you have to do is use it that way. 

Unfortunately not all people know what is umami. So I added this awkward wording "has umami taste" to explicitly show what I'm talking about.

When more people learn about this word the *English* definition might be changed (without changing lojbani semantics).

E.g. recently in bpfk-list I suggested changing the definition of {gleki} from

x1 is happy/merry/gay/glad/gleeful about x2 (event/state).

to 

x1 is happy/merry/glad/gleeful about x2 (event/state).

just because one English word completely changed it's meaning.

[Jonathan Jones]

Except that "gay" still does mean what it did when the definition was written, so the meaning wasn't changed at all.

The interpretation of the word "gay" in the U.S. has changed, but that's the fault of the populace. :)

--
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

[la arxokuna]

On Saturday, July 27, 2013 9:50:41 AM UTC+4, aionys wrote:

Except that "gay" still does mean what it did when the definition was written, so the meaning wasn't changed at all.

The interpretation of the word "gay" in the U.S. has changed, but that's the fault of the populace. :)

ke'u

I suggest this because we already have a registered incident on IRC when one nintadni thought that {gleki} covered the sense of {mitcinpa'i} as well.

This is NOT the problem of Lojban. This is only the problem of English changing.

If "gay" no longer means "merry" (or it's almost never used in such sense nowadays) then the definition should be changed accordingly.

(And no one forbids you to translate gimste to "Old English" zo'o) 

[Jonathan Jones]

I'm just saying that the meaning isn't changed by the fact that idiots think gay means homosexual.

[.arpis.]

doi aionys, "gay" _does_ mean "homosexual". The first two definitions on dictionary.com support me. It also has a secondary meaning, but that meaning has fallen out of use in the US (I can't speak for other English speaking populations).

Also, the meaning _is_ changed by the fact that most people associate "homosexual" with "gay" so much more strongly than they do "happy" that they get confused; this is natural _descriptivist_ evolution of language.

mu'o mi'e .arpis.

[MorphemeAddict]

The interpretation IS the meaning. 

stevo

[la arxokuna]

On Saturday, July 27, 2013 4:02:17 PM UTC+4, .arpis. wrote:

doi aionys, "gay" _does_ mean "homosexual". The first two definitions on dictionary.com support me. It also has a secondary meaning, but that meaning has fallen out of use in the US (I can't speak for other English speaking populations).

Also, the meaning _is_ changed by the fact that most people associate "homosexual" with "gay" so much more strongly than they do "happy" that they get confused; this is natural _descriptivist_ evolution of language.

Merriam Webster agrees with aionys. dictionary.com agrees with you.

But I rely on #lojban IRC chat. If nintadni are confused it's the problem of the gimste, not nintadni.

(btw, I've never seen "gay" used in the meaning of "merry" except in one song awkwardly translated into English 15 years ago).

[John E. Clifford]

"Don we now our gay apparel, fa la la la la la al la la la,troll an ancient Yuletide carol," etc.

Note that this has been a Xmas party song in the homosexual community for at least four decades.

Sent from my iPad

[John E. Clifford]

Oh, and "gay" has meant sexually liberated in a broad sense since at least the mid 1800s.

Sent from my iPad

[John E. Clifford]

But then, "merry" meant that already in Shakespeare's time,

Sent from my iPad

[MorphemeAddict]

Just add a note to the definition that "gay" is not used there to mean homosexual. 

stevo