jbovlaste dictionary question
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Jimmy Stata
Mar 26, 2016, 6:02:42 AM3/26/16
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Hey, so I just started learning Lojban and I've been using jbovlaste.lojban.org to learn new words, but something about the website has been confusing me: not every example is presented as x1 selbri x2. I keep finding words that use something other than x.
For example;
For example;
tityzme: g1 is a melon of cultivar g2
samyzilkei: x1=k2 is a video game on platform x2=s1
samyzilkei: x1=k2 is a video game on platform x2=s1
What do these different placeholder variables mean?
I hate to ask here, but I can't seem to find an answer anywhere.
ki'e sai do
i. lo djedi ku xamgu a'o do
ki'e sai do
i. lo djedi ku xamgu a'o do
Ilmen
Mar 26, 2016, 7:28:23 AM3/26/16
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Hello and welcome here;
The "x1=k2" style for argument slot marking is used for showing both the slot number (here x1), and the etymology of that slot, or in other words from which argument slot of which of the source words that have been used to construct the lujvo.
In the case of samyzilkei, which is a lujvo coming from the tanru {skami zi'o kelci}: "x1=k2 is a video game on platform x2=s1", we have the x1 slot marked with the etymological information "k2", for "the second slot of the gismu that is used for building this lujvo and begins with the letter K", so {kelci} here, and we have the x2 slot marked with "s1", so the first slot of the source gismu beginning with S, so {skami} in this case.
So the first slot of {samyzilkei} is a {se kelci}, thus a game, and the second slot comes from {skami}, so a computer.
• http://jbovlaste.lojban.org/help/definitions.html
As for "tityzme: g1 is a melon of cultivar g2":
This notation is similar to the previous paradigm, but the slot number information (x1= / x2= / x3= ...) is missing, which can be even more confusing.
Personally, I like neither of those etymological paradigms, I prefer to use the simple and clear x1/x2/x3/... notation, even for lujvo. I think that if the etymology of the lujvo is deemed important, it should be put in the notes or in a specific field, but not clutter the definition.
Many beginners have complained about those notations. Except the page I've linked above, there doesn't seem to be an explanation of those notations that is readily accessible and easy to find from the main page of Jbovlaste.
mi'e la .ilmen. mu'o
The "x1=k2" style for argument slot marking is used for showing both the slot number (here x1), and the etymology of that slot, or in other words from which argument slot of which of the source words that have been used to construct the lujvo.
In the case of samyzilkei, which is a lujvo coming from the tanru {skami zi'o kelci}: "x1=k2 is a video game on platform x2=s1", we have the x1 slot marked with the etymological information "k2", for "the second slot of the gismu that is used for building this lujvo and begins with the letter K", so {kelci} here, and we have the x2 slot marked with "s1", so the first slot of the source gismu beginning with S, so {skami} in this case.
So the first slot of {samyzilkei} is a {se kelci}, thus a game, and the second slot comes from {skami}, so a computer.
• http://jbovlaste.lojban.org/help/definitions.html
As for "tityzme: g1 is a melon of cultivar g2":
This notation is similar to the previous paradigm, but the slot number information (x1= / x2= / x3= ...) is missing, which can be even more confusing.
Personally, I like neither of those etymological paradigms, I prefer to use the simple and clear x1/x2/x3/... notation, even for lujvo. I think that if the etymology of the lujvo is deemed important, it should be put in the notes or in a specific field, but not clutter the definition.
Many beginners have complained about those notations. Except the page I've linked above, there doesn't seem to be an explanation of those notations that is readily accessible and easy to find from the main page of Jbovlaste.
mi'e la .ilmen. mu'o
Josh Holland
Mar 26, 2016, 8:44:16 AM3/26/16
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Hi Jimmy,
On Sat, 26 Mar 2016, at 09:25 AM, Jimmy Stata wrote:
> not every example is presented as x1 selbri x2. I
> keep finding words that use something other than x.
What all these words have in common is that they are lujvo, compound
words built out of the base gismu words. There are rules and conventions
for specifying the place structure of lujvo based on the component gismu
(see http://lojban.github.io/cll/12/1/ for all the details), and the use
of different letters in the definitions is to show which component each
place comes from.
> For example;
> tityzme: g1 is a melon of cultivar g2
{tityzme} is formed from {titla} "sweet" and {guzme} "squash/melon", and
both its places come from {guzme} so are labelled g1 and g2.
> samyzilkei: x1=k2 is a video game on platform x2=s1
This is {skami} "computer" + {zi'o} "delete a place" + {kelci} "plays
with". In this case, x is used (I think to make the order more
explicit). k2 is the second place of {kelci}, the thing being played
with, and s1 is the computer.
.a'o do pu'o jimpe
.i mu'o
On Sat, 26 Mar 2016, at 09:25 AM, Jimmy Stata wrote:
> not every example is presented as x1 selbri x2. I
> keep finding words that use something other than x.
words built out of the base gismu words. There are rules and conventions
for specifying the place structure of lujvo based on the component gismu
(see http://lojban.github.io/cll/12/1/ for all the details), and the use
of different letters in the definitions is to show which component each
place comes from.
> For example;
> tityzme: g1 is a melon of cultivar g2
both its places come from {guzme} so are labelled g1 and g2.
> samyzilkei: x1=k2 is a video game on platform x2=s1
with". In this case, x is used (I think to make the order more
explicit). k2 is the second place of {kelci}, the thing being played
with, and s1 is the computer.
.a'o do pu'o jimpe
.i mu'o
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