Sarcasm

[la .tamar.]

coi

My friend wanted to know if there is an attitudinal for showing sarcasm.

Is there one?

Thanks :)

[guskant]

{xo'o} of selma'o UI is suggested and used by many people, though not yet official:

http://jbovlaste.lojban.org/dict/xo'o

The parser zantufa of version 0.1 or later, as well as the current ilmentufa of experimental grammar, parses {xo'o} as UI.

http://guskant.github.io/gerna_cipra/zantufa-1.html

http://mw.lojban.org/extensions/ilmentufa/camxes-exp.html

In the past, {xo'o} was sometimes proposed for some different meanings, but it seems that only the proposal for the meaning of sarcasm survived.

https://mw.lojban.org/papri/obsolete_experimental_cmavo

[la .tamar.]

Thanks :)

[MorphemeAddict]

If a cmavo indicating sarcasm (e.g., xo'o) is used, is the resulting utterance still sarcasm? 

stevo

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[Gleki Arxokuna]

Depends on what you mean by sarcasm. There is "mockery" (the verb {ckasu} ) and verbal irony.

Given that the proposed interjection modifier {xo'o} parallels {zo'o} there is a strong indication that it means "veranl irony, not mockery. That's why one unofficial dictionary states that it's verbal irony.

Thanks :)

[Bob LeChevalier, President and Founder - LLG]

On 11/17/2015 9:10 PM, guskant wrote:
> Le mercredi 18 novembre 2015 00:01:49 UTC, la .tamar. a écrit :
>

> {xo'o} of selma'o UI is suggested and used by many people, though not
> yet official:
> http://jbovlaste.lojban.org/dict/xo'o
>
> The parser zantufa of version 0.1 or later, as well as the current
> ilmentufa of experimental grammar, parses {xo'o} as UI.
> http://guskant.github.io/gerna_cipra/zantufa-1.html
> http://mw.lojban.org/extensions/ilmentufa/camxes-exp.html
>
> In the past, {xo'o} was sometimes proposed for some different meanings,
> but it seems that only the proposal for the meaning of sarcasm survived.
> https://mw.lojban.org/papri/obsolete_experimental_cmavo

I'm not sure that I understand sarcasm to be humor, hence the xo'o
similar to zo'o doesn't work for me. Maybe parody is the boundary
between sarcasm and humor (but there are probably a few ways to mark parody.

I believe that, back when I analyzed attitudinal coverage, most forms of
sarcasm were to conveyed by making a statement and marking it with
.ianai or .ienai, to indicate that you don't really believe what you are
saying. je'unai would have similar effect. Depending on why you are
being sarcastic, .ionai might be added to one of the other choices
mentioned. (I suspect that is the usual reason why *I* express sarcasm)

Irony, which also overlaps sarcasm and humor, has the gismu ranxi
assigned, so rather than inventing a cmavo I would probably do "sei
ranxi [se'u]" to mark it.

lojbab

[Andrew]

I was about to say that using an attitudinal for sarcasm, irony, and/or joking would sort of ruin the intended effect -- but actually I think there is an appropriate use case: informal text.

Attitudinals are often compared to emoticons, and emoticons are commonly used to help clarify the writer's intended mood and meaning in Internet chat, forums, and emails. People tend to write in a very loose, conversational style on the internet, so their writing lacks both the precision of more formal writing and the nuance of spoken inflections and tone. So, while announcing that you are telling a silly joke probably makes it less funny in speech, it's maybe safer, when being ironical/sarcastic on the internet, to append the line with a winky face, or a "jk" ("just kidding"). And an attitudinal would serve the same purpose.

~Andrew