Terminator for la

[la .tamar.]

Coi.

I gave up learning lojban a while ago because I didn't have anyone I would be able to learn it with, but recently I got some new friends who want to learn. I decided that at the start I would teach them to speak saying every terminator so that we get used to the idea of them being there, however I noticed that it is inconsistent as to whether or not la is terminated by ku or if it has no terminator. For example in la camxes grammar parser adding a ku to the end of a sumti starting with la generates an error unless you use the experimental grammar version. My question therefore is, is using ku as a terminator experimental? and should I teach them that it is the terminator for la, or shouldn't I?

Thanks :)

[guskant]

Le samedi 30 janvier 2016 09:31:10 UTC, la .tamar. a écrit :

Coi.

I gave up learning lojban a while ago because I didn't have anyone I would be able to learn it with, but recently I got some new friends who want to learn. I decided that at the start I would teach them to speak saying every terminator so that we get used to the idea of them being there, however I noticed that it is inconsistent as to whether or not la is terminated by ku or if it has no terminator. For example in la camxes grammar parser adding a ku to the end of a sumti starting with la generates an error unless you use the experimental grammar version. My question therefore is, is using ku as a terminator experimental? and should I teach them that it is the terminator for la, or shouldn't I?

Officially, {la} followed by selbri has an elidable terminator {ku}, but {la} followed by cmevla does not have a terminator. It is because a brivla following {la ca selbri} can be included the {la}-structure, while a brivla following {la cmevlas} cannot be a part of the {la}-structure.

I recommend using camxes for teaching beginners, not the canxes-experimental that was deteriorated by la gleki. Although I rather welcome improvement of the grammar, most of the ideas of new grammar are not yet discussed by BPFK, and some of the ideas may be not going to be agreed by it. As for actual reading or listening of existing texts in experimental grammar, I prepared some versions of parsers that are suitable to them. See the instruction of the versions for detail:

https://mw.lojban.org/papri/zantufa

For example, 

- use maftufa for reading lo se manci te makfa pe la oz:

https://mw.lojban.org/papri/maftufa

http://selpahi.de/oz_plain.html

- use zantufa for reading the new version of {la .teris. ku noi tigra cu stuvi'e lo barda tcadu} or listening my song {lo no valsi}:

http://guskant.github.io/gerna_cipra/zantufa-1.11.html

https://mw.lojban.org/papri/la_.teris._ku_noi_tigra_cu_stuvi'e_lo_barda_tcadu

https://vimeo.com/141602354

- use maltufa for reading the old version of {la teris po'u lo tirxu cu vitke zi'o le barda tcadu} and most of good old texts:

http://guskant.github.io/gerna_cipra/maltufa-1.1.html

https://mw.lojban.org/papri/la_.teris._po'u_lo_tirxu_cu_vitke_zi'o_le_barda_tcadu

-use zantufa-cekitaujoibus for reading {ka catra lo verba}:

http://guskant.github.io/gerna_cipra/zantufa-1-cekitaujoibu.html

http://danmo-rozgu.github.io/kacatraloverba.html

mu'o

[la .tamar.]

Thanks :)

[Gleki Arxokuna]

2016-01-30 17:42 GMT+03:00 guskant <gusni...@gmail.com>:

I recommend using camxes for teaching beginners, not the canxes-experimental that was deteriorated by la gleki.

I'm not aware it was deteriorated by me. Can you provide any explanation?

[guskant]

1. Your camxes-experimental parser does not parse even {la teris} written in basic lojban suitable for beginners, either the old version or the new one.

https://mw.lojban.org/papri/la_.teris._po'u_lo_tirxu_cu_vitke_zi'o_le_barda_tcadu

https://mw.lojban.org/papri/la_.teris._ku_noi_tigra_cu_stuvi'e_lo_barda_tcadu

2. You said you would not select backward incompatible changes, but your camxes-experimental parser is incompatible with the official grammar for cmevla as selbrisle.

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban/oriGf4t1_Xc/eSljctvEDAAJ

3. You destroyed all the ilmentufa parsers in the first two weeks of this year by modifying preproc.js.

https://github.com/lagleki/glekitufa/commit/9dbe1756b016ea567d23e2f0b1201c32bf817a32#commitcomment-15414073

Such a problem may occur again anytime in the future as long as you continue executing your dictatorship on the lojban.org server.

4. The solutions for the problem 1 and the problem 2 are incompatible, so you have no way to solve all the problems. 

Don't disturb anymore this thread for the defects of your camxes-experimental parser. If you have any objection, continue it on the general lojban list, not on the beginner's list.