[Lnc-votes] [Lnc-business] Fwd: Proposal for Libertarian Party (from Chairman of Mississippi)

[lnc-...@hq.lp.org]

Hi all, please consider the following proposal from Aaron Barksdale:

Mr. Vohra;

Aaron Barksdale, Chairman of the Libertarian Party of Mississippi, here wanting to offer a proposal that is win-win for the LP and myself.  I am writing you using a personal e-mail because this is not connected to the MSLP.

In case you are not aware, the Secretary of the MSLP and I wrote a book called Libertarianism in a Nutshell.  Please review the proposal enclosed and contact me if you have any questions or counter offers or to proceed with the proposal.

Thank you,

Aaron Barksdale
cell: (228)238-7844

--

Arvin Vohra

www.VoteVohra.com
Vote...@gmail.com
(301) 320-3634

[lnc-...@hq.lp.org]

If Mr. Barksdale's proposal were to be considered (and approved), could said royalty funds be directed specifically to either of the endeavors listed below?

1) To ensure ballot access for LP candidates in all states.

2) To hold a national convention for the purpose of electing Presidential and Vice Presidential nominees.

Whitney Bilyeu

LNC Region 7 Representative

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[lnc-...@hq.lp.org]

The promotion of a book is something that the Party has done before, I am specifically thinking of Dr. Ruwart's book.  But is literal endorsement something that has been done before?  I am trying to locate the exact quotes, but I know some members had some issues with some of the content that would make an actual endorsement problematic concerning a very non-standard usage of the word "anarchy" ("minimal government anarchism") and advocation of certain forms of taxation and absolute necessity for a state (disclaimer: I have not yet read it myself).  There was also a facebook kerfuffle about some prior advertising images they used which anarchist members found divisive and belittling.  I do not know if they are still using that advertising.

All that being said, I have no problem with us promoting books that represent a spectrum of views (as long as future offers from another end of the spectrum were considered), but am unclear what a literal Party endorsement would mean.  Endorsing one "factional view" over an another does not seem wise, but promoting a book within the Libertarian umbrella seems fine and desirable.

I have not considered fully the ramifications of profit-sharing in promotion and whether that has been done before and any negative ramifications of that- hoping others will weight in that aspect.

In Liberty,

Caryn Ann Harlos

Region 1 Representative 

(Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington)

--

In Liberty,

Caryn Ann Harlos

Region 1 Representative 

(Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington)

Caryn.An...@LP.org

[lnc-...@hq.lp.org]

I don't recall us ever endorsing a book before.  It seems that the publisher is using a somewhat unusual definition of endorsement here; what they want is more akin to promotion than endorsement, in my view.  

I'm not opposed to this; I think fundraising is generally a good thing.  Before committing to support it, though, I'd want to at least look through the book.

By the way, I would be happy to have my book given away as a membership premium if the party will cover the costs of self-publishing the copies given away.  It is about Les Mis, but touches on several libertarian themes.

Joshua A. Katz

Westbrook CT Planning Commission (L in R seat)

[lnc-...@hq.lp.org]

If the publisher is just referring to promotion (and would refer to it as such rather than endorsing) that seems potentially non-objectionable, though I would love to hear about past similar things we have done.  I also would like to read it for myself.

[lnc-...@hq.lp.org]

I appreciate the creative thinking behind this offer, and Aaron Barksdale's interest in seeking a mutually beneficial arrangement with the Libertarian Party over the sale of his book. Having neither read this book myself nor being acquainted with the views of the authors however, I can't vote for an endorsement at this time. 

If the authors or their publisher wish to send me a review copy for purposes of making this offer, I will read it and after reading, donate the book to the party (to avoid any conflict of interest). If Aaron wishes to have the LNC vote to endorse the book on behalf of the party, I would suggest that providing review copies to members of the LNC on this basis would be in order, so that we will be better informed to make an evaluation. 

If we do decide that a book promotion deal on a libertarian book is something we'd like to enter into, I believe we should also let our membership know that we are in the market for making a deal of this sort on a libertarian book. It could be that other Libertarians (or libertarians) may have authored (or be prepared to write) books on which they might be willing to offer the party a more attractive deal (not that we are limited to making a single deal, of course). Certainly the quality of the book would matter too – hence my interest in actually reading it before voting on this contract – but I think an open, competitive bidding process is in the interest of the Libertarian Party whenever we are looking to enter into some type of contract or employment relationship.

One further somewhat unrelated idea:  I'd like to see us hold conventions in locations where we have sufficient space at our disposal for which we do not have to pay anything, so that we can offer vendors such as Aaron Barksdale and his co-author or their publishing company to have booth space at no cost. I believe that maximizing the number of vendors present rather than seeking to make money via charging each individual vendor would be in the party's interest for the following reasons:

• It would likely expose convention attendees to many pro-freedom materials they would not otherwise encounter

• It would create gratitude toward the LP from vendors who would be afforded a valuable sales opportunity at no cost to themselves

• Some of those attending a convention as vendors would likely end up paying for speakers or meals, or donating money or materials to the party, in appreciation of being given the free opportunity to sell their merchandise

• If not already libertarians, persons attending as vendors would be exposed to libertarian ideas via interacting with convention attendees even if they do not check out any speakers or other events

• The presence of hundreds or thousands of vendors instead of the mere dozens (at most) that we attract now would significantly boost our overall convention attendance numbers, increasing the visibility and clout of our conventions

• The presence of hundreds or thousands of vendors offering materials they believe will be of interest to Libertarians would create a unique shopping experience that in and of itself would become a specific additional draw for other convention-goers

Love & Liberty,

                                            ((( starchild )))

At-Large Representative, Libertarian National Committee (2016-2018)

                                RealR...@earthlink.net

                                         (415) 625-FREE

On Jun 22, 2016, at 3:03 PM, Arvin Vohra wrote:

Hi all, please consider the following proposal from Aaron Barksdale:

Mr. Vohra;

Aaron Barksdale, Chairman of the Libertarian Party of Mississippi, here wanting to offer a proposal that is win-win for the LP and myself.  I am writing you using a personal e-mail because this is not connected to the MSLP.

In case you are not aware, the Secretary of the MSLP and I wrote a book called Libertarianism in a Nutshell.  Please review the proposal enclosed and contact me if you have any questions or counter offers or to proceed with the proposal.

Thank you,

Aaron Barksdale
cell: (228)238-7844

--

Arvin Vohra

www.VoteVohra.com
Vote...@gmail.com
(301) 320-3634

<LP_Proposal.pdf>

[lnc-...@hq.lp.org]

Excuse me – I misspoke in the email below. I just realized that I actually already have a copy of Libertarianism in a Nutshell which someone (Aaron Barksdale?) gave me at the convention! I will give it a read.

Love & Liberty,

                                           ((( starchild )))

At-Large Representative, Libertarian National Committee (2016-2018)

                                RealR...@earthlink.net

                                         (415) 625-FREE

[lnc-...@hq.lp.org]

Hi all - Endorsement by the LNC seems tricky to me, but I would support the following:

1. Individual LNC members endorsing whatever book they like. I've personally done this several times in the past.

2. Having a link to libertarian books somewhere on LP.org or facebook. I think this should probably be relatively open to books that are highly relevant, professionally written and produced, and pass APRC approval.

-Arvin

[lnc-...@hq.lp.org]

Those both sound reasonable, and the first seems like an exercise in free speech.

For the second, I'm not sure what professionally written and produced means.  I take the latter to mean not self-published (and I would suggest an exception be made for any books about Les Mis) but I'm not clear on the former.

Joshua A. Katz

Westbrook CT Planning Commission (L in R seat)

[lnc-...@hq.lp.org]

I don't think it matters if it is self published, small press, or large press. I mean that book cover, layout, etc. is at least reasonable. Written means reasonably free of grammar and spelling type errors. I.e. not embarrassing.

[lnc-...@hq.lp.org]

I am in agreement with Joshua here.  But I sure hope that doesn't mean not self-published as that just seems anti-libertarian to me, but rather means done professionally which is a standard of excellence, not a lineage examination.

In Liberty,

Caryn Ann Harlos

Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann. Har...@LP.org

Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado

Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus

In Liberty,

Caryn Ann Harlos

Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann. Har...@LP.org

Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado

Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus

[lnc-...@hq.lp.org]

That makes a lot more sense to me. Thanks.  

Joshua A. Katz

Westbrook CT Planning Commission (L in R seat)

On Wed, Jun 29, 2016 at 9:46 PM, Arvin Vohra <vote...@gmail.com> wrote:

I don't think it matters if it is self published, small press, or large press. I mean that book cover, layout, etc. is at least reasonable. Written means reasonably free of grammar and spelling type errors. I.e. not embarrassing.

[lnc-...@hq.lp.org]

I've been meaning to follow up on the offer discussed on the LNC list last year to have the LP sell copies of the book "Libertarianism in a Nutshell" by Aaron Barksdale and Joshua Hardy. Unfortunately, having now read the book, I can't in good conscience recommend it for such a project. With all due respect to the Missouri LP chair and his co-author who I believe had good intentions (and did manage to publish an actual book, something I haven't managed myself!), I think there are other introductory libertarian works out there which would better suit our needs. 

At the time I was reading "Libertarianism in a Nutshell" late last year or early this year I took some more detailed notes, but managed to misplace them – my long delay in following up on this was due in part to hoping they might turn up. But I do recall, referencing Joshua Katz's message below, noticing numerous grammar and typographic errors (e.g. the table of contents listing incorrect page numbers for various sections), as well as issues of a more substantive nature.

One example of the latter is the following sentence which appears on page 38 (in a chapter explaining the classical liberal point of view):  "The only legitimate roles of the state are to provide defense, the protection of rights, and the survival of a state." Besides being grammatically awkward, this sentence seems highly dubious to me as a definitive statement of classical liberalism's take on government (compare with the material at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_liberalism), and the authoritative manner in which the statement is asserted might even give a casual reader flipping through the book the impression that this is what libertarianism holds. I regret to say that the volume is replete with many such problematic passages, and in my view would require some significant editing and revising in order to be "ready for prime time". 

By contrast, another introductory libertarian book of similar length I've started reading which appears to be better written, edited, and organized is LP executive director Wes Benedict's "Introduction to the Libertarian Party". Promoting a book written by a current member of staff does raise conflict of interest issues however – although I realize some groups do such things, I'm not sure it sits quite right with me.

Fortunately I don't think there is a shortage of good books on libertarianism out there from which to choose, if we really start looking. A personal favorite, although it is a bit longer than the two aforementioned volumes and therefore would presumably cost more to buy and distribute in bulk, is former LNC member Mary Ruwart's "Healing Our World", which I often recommend to people new to libertarianism who seem willing to read something more in depth than a brochure or brief online description. It is my understanding however that Ruwart may be a presidential candidate for the LP in 2020 however, in which case it would not be right to offer this book at present even if we desired to do so, since doing so would be showing favoritism to a particular candidate prior to our nomination.

In short, although I think the idea of having the LP offer an introductory book on libertarianism as an item for sale or a membership or donor premium or something is a fine one (and possibly has been done before), I have no recommendation at this time.

Love & Liberty,

                                 ((( starchild )))

At-Large Representative, Libertarian National Committee

                        RealR...@earthlink.net

                               (415) 625-FREE

                                  @StarchildSF

On Jun 29, 2016, at 5:46 PM, lnc-...@hq.lp.org wrote:

I don't think it matters if it is self published, small press, or large press. I mean that book cover, layout, etc. is at least reasonable. Written means reasonably free of grammar and spelling type errors. I.e. not embarrassing.

[lnc-...@hq.lp.org]

Wes' book is excellent.  It is what I recommend to people here in CO.  We have given it away before and if we get it at cost from Wes (i.e. he doesn't profit from it) I don't see an issue.

Unfortunately I have not had time to read the other book yet (Nutshell) but others noted to me that they felt like it either directly said or implied that belief in a small state was a necessary belief which - if true - would violate the Dallas Accord as embodied in the 1974 Starement of Principles.  Again, that is passing on feedback - I have not yet read it.  My pile of must-read is gigantic.  Wes' book handles that issue perfectly without taking a side.

I would also recommend the Ruwart book.  She has not declared she is running nor even has something as preliminary as an exploratory committee.

-Caryn Ann

--

In Liberty,

Caryn Ann Harlos

Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann. Har...@LP.org

Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado

Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee

A haiku to the Statement of Principles:

We defend your rights

And oppose the use of force

Taxation is theft

[lnc-...@hq.lp.org]

Ditto Starchild’s and Caryn Ann’s comments. My wife and I thoroughly enjoyed Wes’s book and frequently recommend and use it as a reference.

 

Thoughts?

 

~David Pratt

 

2018 Omaha Roads to Freedom Un-Convention

 

Freedom, Nothing More, Nothing Less

 

~David Pratt Demarest

Roads to Freedom Foundation, Founder

LNC Region 6 Representative (IA, IL, MN, MO, ND, NE, WI)

LSLA Vice-Chair

LPNE State Central Committee, Secretary

LPRC Board Member, Nebraska State Coordinator

David.D...@LP.org

Secr...@LPNE.org

DPDem...@centurylink.net

DPrattD...@gmail.com

Cell:      402-981-6469

Home: 402-493-0873

[lnc-...@hq.lp.org]

A member wrote to recommend Bergkand's Libertarianism in One Lesson.

But hands down if I could have a case to give out at Outreach booths it is Wes's book.  Also it's not only pro-libertarian in general- it is specific to growing our Party.