[Lnc-votes] [Lnc-business] Policy Manual - Regional Representatives

[lnc-...@hq.lp.org]

I am starting this new chain for the discussion on David's proposal to add a section to the Policy Manual on Regional Representatives.  This was David's initial working proposal as a starting point:

LNC regional representatives and alternates who serve at the pleasure of the region member state chairs are encouraged to provide a transparent channel that facilitates mutually supportive communication between the LNC and officers and members of the regional state organizations. Actual regional organization policies are left to the discretion of and agreement between the member state chairs and their regional representatives and alternates.

I suggest this change:

LNC Regional Representatives and Alternates who serve at the pleasure of their Region, as specified in the Region Formation Agreement, are encouraged to provide a transparent channel that facilitates mutually supportive communication between the LNC and Officers and members of the regional state affiliates. Actual regional organization policies and additional duties are left to the discretion of and agreement between the member state chairs and their Regional Representatives and Alternates.

--

In Liberty,

Caryn Ann Harlos

Region 1 Representative 

(Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington)

Caryn.An...@LP.org

[lnc-...@hq.lp.org]

Thanks Caryn. I have pasted in the previous responses for background information.

 

~David Pratt Demarest

--

Caryn.An...@LP.org

 

 

Thanks Caryn. Can you provide an alternative example and how we might modify the proposed statement to address that alternative?

 

Thoughts?

 

Celebrate Life, Set the Bar High and LIVE FREE!

 

The Invisible Hand of Self-Interest is Mightier Than the Sword of Government!

 

 

From: Lnc-business [mailto:lnc-busine...@hq.lp.org] On Behalf Of Caryn Ann Harlos
Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2016 10:59 AM
To: lnc-bu...@hq.lp.org
Cc: david.d...@firstdata.com; David Demarest <secr...@lpne.org>; lnc-business <lnc-bu...@lp.org>
Subject: Re: [Lnc-business] details for electronic mail ballots

 

Yes that is what I was thinking- a policy manual section.

 

David also, not all reps serve at the pleasure of the state chairs- that is the default.  The region agreement can specify otherwise.

 

 

From: David Demarest [mailto:secr...@lpne.org]
Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2016 11:13 AM
To: 'Sam Goldstein' <goldstei...@gmail.com>; 'lnc-bu...@hq.lp.org' <lnc-bu...@hq.lp.org>
Cc: 'lnc-business' <lnc-bu...@lp.org>; 'david.d...@firstdata.com' <david.d...@firstdata.com>
Subject: RE: [Lnc-business] details for electronic mail ballots

 

Thanks Sam – makes sense to put it in the policy manual. What is the procedure to get a Regional Representative responsibilities statement added to the policy manual?

 

By the way, the original idea for the following suggested policy statement came from the fertile mind of Brett Bittner, Region 3 Representative. Thanks Brett!

 

LNC regional representatives and alternates who serve at the pleasure of the region member state chairs are encouraged to provide a transparent channel that facilitates mutually supportive communication between the LNC and officers and members of the regional state organizations. Actual regional organization policies are left to the discretion of and agreement between the member state chairs and their regional representatives and alternates.

 

Any suggested revisions to the above text?

 

The Invisible Hand of Self-Interest is Mightier Than the Sword of Government!

 

~David Pratt Demarest

 

From: Lnc-business [mailto:lnc-busine...@hq.lp.org] On Behalf Of Caryn Ann Harlos
Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2016 11:16 AM
To: lnc-bu...@hq.lp.org
Cc: david.d...@firstdata.com; lnc-business <lnc-bu...@lp.org>
Subject: Re: [Lnc-business] details for electronic mail ballots

 

David, can you start a new thread with the right title?  This is still under "electronic email ballot" and will be impossible to find in the future.

 

In Liberty,

Caryn Ann Harlos

Region 1 Representative 

(Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington)

 

On Sun, Jun 26, 2016 at 10:13 AM, David Demarest <secr...@lpne.org> wrote:

Thanks Sam – makes sense to put it in the policy manual. What is the procedure to get a Regional Representative responsibilities statement added to the policy manual?

 

By the way, the original idea for the following suggested policy statement came from the fertile mind of Brett Bittner, Region 3 Representative. Thanks Brett!

 

LNC regional representatives and alternates who serve at the pleasure of the region member state chairs are encouraged to provide a transparent channel that facilitates mutually supportive communication between the LNC and officers and members of the regional state organizations. Actual regional organization policies are left to the discretion of and agreement between the member state chairs and their regional representatives and alternates.

 

Any suggested revisions to the above text?

 

The Invisible Hand of Self-Interest is Mightier Than the Sword of Government!

 

~David Pratt Demarest

Secretary, Nebraska Libertarian State Central Committee

Region 6 Representative, Libertarian National Committee

Secr...@LPNE.org

David.D...@LP.org

DPDem...@centurylink.net

David.D...@firstdata.com

http://www.LPNE.org

http://www.LP.org 

Cell:      402-981-6469

Home: 402-493-0873

Office: 402-222-7207

 

 

 

From: Sam Goldstein [mailto:goldstei...@gmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2016 10:37 AM
To: lnc-bu...@hq.lp.org
Cc: lnc-business <lnc-bu...@lp.org>; david.d...@firstdata.com; David Demarest <secr...@lpne.org>
Subject: Re: [Lnc-business] details for electronic mail ballots

 

David,

 

The LNC has no power to change the By-Laws, only the delegates in convention.  The LNC can amend the Policy Manual so it might be best to look for a place to insert your suggested Regional Representative responsiblities language in that document.  There are very few mentions of Regional Reps in the current language and the only responsibility outlined is the Regional Report to be submitted prior to every LNC meeting.

 

Having a definition inserted in the Policy Manual would help future newbies in determining their role and might encourage more people to seed a spot from their region.

 

Live Free,

 

 

Sam Goldstein

Libertarian National Committee

Member at Large

8925 N Meridian St, Ste 101

Indianapolis IN 46260

317-850-0726 Phone

317-582-1773 Fax

 

On Sun, Jun 26, 2016 at 9:33 AM, David Demarest <dpdem...@centurylink.net> wrote:

Alicia – Thank you for very clear and unambiguous instructions and procedures on LNC email balloting – very helpful to us newcomers on the board!

 

On a similar but separate subject, at your convenience when your schedule is not so crazy, I would appreciate receiving similar instructions and procedures excerpted from the bylaws or elsewhere in LNC documentation that  clearly delineates the roles and responsibilities of regional representatives and their alternates. With Caryn Ann Harlos’ help, I see some of region structure mechanical details. However, I have not been able to locate any LNC documentation that spells out regional representative and alternate roles and responsibilities.

 

Caryn Ann and I have discussed a possible default description of regional representative and alternate roles and responsibilities. I submit the following for discussion:

 

LNC regional representatives and alternates who serve at the pleasure of the region member state chairs are encouraged to provide a transparent channel that facilitates mutually supportive communication between the LNC and officers and members of the regional state organizations. Actual regional organization policies are left to the discretion of and agreement between the member state chairs and their regional representatives and alternates.

 

Question: Should the above be offered as a motion or as an amendment to the bylaws? If a motion is appropriate, in addition to Caryn, are there two more board members that would like to co-sponsor such a motion following discussion and revisions?

 

Thoughts?

 

Celebrate Life, Set the Bar High and LIVE FREE!

 

~David Pratt Demarest

Secretary, Nebraska Libertarian State Central Committee

Region 6 Representative, Libertarian National Committee

Secr...@LPNE.org

David.D...@LP.org

DPDem...@centurylink.net

David.D...@firstdata.com

http://www.LPNE.org

http://www.LP.org 

Cell:      402-981-6469

Home: 402-493-0873

Office: 402-222-7207

 

[lnc-...@hq.lp.org]

Two ways to amend the policy manual, e-mail ballot or at a LNC meeting.  Just as with any motion, find the language you want to propose through discussion here or at a meeting, then propose your motion along with the place you want to insert it into the manual.  Also consider if your motion would require changes to other parts of the manual and include them, if needed.

You might want to also see input from other Regional Reps as to whether this is a solution in search of a problem.

Sam

Sam Goldstein

Libertarian National Committee

Member at Large

8925 N Meridian St, Ste 101

Indianapolis IN 46260

317-850-0726 Phone

317-582-1773 Fax

_______________________________________________
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Lnc-bu...@hq.lp.org
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[lnc-...@hq.lp.org]

I am good with Caryn’s suggested revision.

 

Others?

 

~David Pratt Demarest

Region 6 Representative, Libertarian National Committee

[lnc-...@hq.lp.org]

There is a problem.  Whether this is a solution or not is another matter, but I think it certainly adds clarity. We must remember that the Policy Manual isn't *only* for the LNC but for the members to *understand* the LNC.  I read it when I was a new member (no wisecracks Sam!).  Now I realize I am an aberration in  my zeal to read our documents but that is in fact another purpose of it.  Most members have zero idea they even have a regional representative, and in fact, what use such a person is.  Perhaps the un-regioned (made that word up) states would be more likely to join a region if they saw the value and the value was made a part of the record.  

This is definitely a problem because there are regional representatives who come in going now what?  I found myself in a different position in that I was already entrenched as a non-LNC member in the goings on, attending and writing about meetings, reading the lists etc, and did an active campaign for the position that I decided on well in advance.  But oftentimes (whether this is good or not is another issue) regional representatives are chosen and decided at the region meeting with little prior intent.  Either no one campaigned, or someone decides they don't like the choices, and heck, better step up.  Whatever the reason, we find ourselves with absolutely no guidance on what the heck it is we are supposed to do.  The fact is, I just took it upon myself to start doing things and interfacing with my region in ways I thought were a good idea, but it would be great to know what has been learned from the past.  Again.... institutional knowledge, we are terrible at it.

In Liberty,

Caryn Ann Harlos

Region 1 Representative 

(Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington)

PS: remember, please sign your emails... the sender information is often unclear when this goes to the public list, and the members can have a hard time keeping track of who said what, and they deserve to know.

_______________________________________________
Lnc-business mailing list
Lnc-bu...@hq.lp.org
http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org

[lnc-...@hq.lp.org]

All,

As designed and codified in the bylaws today, the regions are autonomous, and have the right to determine their own reps as they see fit (by mutual agreement, or otherwise by the state chairs by default).  The Region Representative represents the region. They serve the region at their leisure. This is already codified in the bylaws. I don't see a reason to reiterate this any further in other documents.  I would suggest that it would only clutter the already-lengthy document.

In 2014, I suggested reorganizing regions based on Federal Court districts, with multiple districts in each region to make the national membership numbers in each region almost equal. The goal of this approach was to foster communication between states in the same federal court circuits, since Court of Appeals ruling effect every state in the district.   This never gained traction for multiple reasons, the largest of which seemed to be protecting silly fiefdoms. I've personally moved on to build those relationships outside of the Region Reps.  I introduced LPKY's attorney to the counsel for LPTN and LPMI at the national convention, and LPKY's attorney has now worked with LPO's attorney.

I do think we should consider reducing the number of regions and at-large positions by 1, keeping a balance between those elected by the entire body and those elected from districts.

Just my $0.02 on the matter.

 

---

Ken C. Moellman, Jr.
LNC Region 3 Alternate Representative
LPKY Judicial Committee

[lnc-...@hq.lp.org]

I find the idea "no clutter" for its own sake to be at the root of a lot of problems in the Party frankly and part of why we lack institutional knowledge.

I also can think of plenty of other reasons to oppose reorganizing around Federal Court Districts other than petty fiefdoms but these are bylaws questions - not the LNC purview though I would support that idea of equal regional and at large representatives.

That being said- if we think there is no problem with new RRs coming in and not knowing these things.... Okay.  And admittedly perhaps the PM is not a place for it.

Perhaps the RRs should just get together and write an unofficial manual the way the social media team has- but to deny we need something is foolish to me.

And for all I know this may already exist but because of the death of knowledge when people come and go-and an aversion to clutter- it isn't passed along.

In Liberty,

Caryn Ann Harlos

Region 1 Representative 

(Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington)

PS: remember, please sign your emails... the sender information is often unclear when this goes to the public list, and the members can have a hard time keeping track of who said what, and they deserve to know.

[lnc-...@hq.lp.org]

Probably having a hour or so Introduction and orientation to the LNC for new members would not be a 

bad idea, officer, At Large or Regional Rep.  Best time would be right before the post-convention LNC

meeting that begins each term.

Sam

Sam Goldstein

Libertarian National Committee

Member at Large

8925 N Meridian St, Ste 101

Indianapolis IN 46260

317-850-0726 Phone

317-582-1773 Fax

[lnc-...@hq.lp.org]

Sam, I like your idea of a brief post-convention LNC session for new members. Admittedly that would not have worked this year as the both the convention proper and 4-hour post-convention LNC meeting ran very late and many of those who did not have to catch flights were dog-tired after a challenging convention. However, I support the idea of a brief post-convention new member orientation session going forward.

 

I would add that even if we decide that the regions are entirely on their own regarding their organization and rep/alternate responsibilities, a statement to that effect should be readily available to avoid confusion and make the regional rep and alternate positions not only clearly-defined but also a desirable goal to pursue not to mention a source of new LNC talent to cover attrition.

 

~David Pratt Demarest

[lnc-...@hq.lp.org]

I agree with Ken here in terms of how useful this would be.  If someone isn't going to read the bylaws and see how the region reps work, why would they read the policy manual to see someone else's attempt to describe what's in the bylaws?  I don't see this as solving the described problem.

I also would quibble with some of the language.  For example, not every region has a region formation agreement, though this language suggests they do.  Some merely sign a piece of paper saying "We're a region!"

-Alicia

[lnc-...@hq.lp.org]

Alicia, it was my understanding from the Delegate Chair Manual that every region does have to sign a region formation agreement, even if it was something as simple as "We're a region!"  - that would be the agreement.

In Liberty,

Caryn Ann Harlos

Region 1 Representative 

(Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington)

PS: remember, please sign your emails... the sender information is often unclear when this goes to the public list, and the members can have a hard time keeping track of who said what, and they deserve to know.

[lnc-...@hq.lp.org]

The Delegation Chair's Manual says:

"Some regions opt to use regional formation agreements to document mutually agreed upon rules for their region before any future disputes arise.  A recommended basic regional agreement is included at the end of this document, though you are not required to use this particular one or any one at all."

This motion suggests that each region has one, and it includes information beyond just "We're a region!"

-Alicia

[lnc-...@hq.lp.org]

Thank you for the clarification. 

In Liberty,

Caryn Ann Harlos

Region 1 Representative 

(Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington)

PS: remember, please sign your emails... the sender information is often unclear when this goes to the public list, and the members can have a hard time keeping track of who said what, and they deserve to know.

[lnc-...@hq.lp.org]

All,

I note that the Bylaws state,

Representative regions" may be formed or dissolved once every two years during a  period beginning 90 days before the beginning of and ending on the second day of the  National Convention, and notice of new formations or dissolutions must be given  in  writing to the national Secretary prior to the close of the Convention at which they take  place. 

So there is something that must be reduced to writing, even if it is just "hey we're a region now."  But I see that my proposed change to David's proposal does make it seem like something much more formal is required.  So I would change my wording to:

LNC Regional Representatives and Alternates who serve at the pleasure of the State Chairs of the affiliates comprising their Region or as specified in the Region Formation Agreement if any, are encouraged to provide a transparent channel that facilitates mutually supportive communication between the LNC and Officers and members of the regional state affiliates. Actual regional organization policies and additional duties are left to the discretion of and agreement between the member state chairs and their Regional Representatives and Alternates.

and for clarification, I don't think David is proposing a motion... he is seeking discussion which may lead to a motion, but I think more airing out an issue that exists.

In Liberty,

Caryn Ann Harlos

Region 1 Representative 

(Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington)

PS: remember, please sign your emails... the sender information is often unclear when this goes to the public list, and the members can have a hard time keeping track of who said what, and they deserve to know.

[lnc-...@hq.lp.org]

This re-work again isn't necessarily accurate, either.  California is big enough to be its own region, and their bylaws don't give the State Chair the power to replace their region rep.  They are elected at the state convention, with the ExComm empowered to make a change, but not the state chair unilaterally.

This language isn't a policy.  Policies give specific directions about how to do a job, describe limitations on authority, etc.  This uses a lot of words to say the region reps communicate between the LNC and the region.  If that basic part isn't intuitive to anyone seeking the job, I don't know what to say.

-Alicia

[lnc-...@hq.lp.org]

Very interesting information on California, thank you.

In Liberty,

Caryn Ann Harlos

Region 1 Representative 

(Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington)

PS: remember, please sign your emails... the sender information is often unclear when this goes to the public list, and the members can have a hard time keeping track of who said what, and they deserve to know.

[lnc-...@hq.lp.org]

Caryn, thanks for the clarifications and I agree with your latest revision.

 

And, yes, much of my concern would be alleviated by Sam’s suggestion of a brief post-convention LNC orientation session for new LNC members. I did not seek the Region 6 Representative. Not knowing what was involved, I was completely caught by surprise as it evolved. That being said, it is a good fit and I enthusiastically accept the challenge. However, my initial reaction was “Wow this is a great opportunity, but now what?”

 

If the regional organization is a value add to the LNC, and I emphatically think it is, than surely the LNC should take it seriously and provide clear, unambiguous and documented guidance on regional representative responsibilities if for no other reason than providing a viable pipeline for future LNC talent.

 

~David Pratt Demarest

Region 6 Representative, Libertarian National Committee

 

[lnc-...@hq.lp.org]

It is very good this discussion is taking place.

I would like to bring up a point of mine that was in the other chain .... Remember that putting something more formally not only instructs the new RR (and I disagree it is just "obvious"- if it were this discussion would not be happening - many RRs end up in this situation as well as Alts- no one ran for my Alt, it was all last minute decisions at the region meeting)....but this information also informs *members* what they are entitled to expect. I ran a multi-month campaign and had time to prepare and learn.  My IPR work also gave me insight but not everyone is in this position.

In Liberty,

Caryn Ann Harlos

Region 1 Representative 

(Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington)

PS: remember, please sign your emails... the sender information is often unclear when this goes to the public list, and the members can have a hard time keeping track of who said what, and they deserve to know.

[lnc-...@hq.lp.org]

 

Now that's a really good idea, Sam.  Maybe a RROO training/refresher would be good as well?  Just the basic motions plus the modified rules for the LNC.

---

Ken C. Moellman, Jr.
LNC Region 3 Alternate Representative
LPKY Judicial Committee

 

On 2016-06-26 14:26, Sam Goldstein wrote:

Probably having a hour or so Introduction and orientation to the LNC for new members would not be a 

bad idea, officer, At Large or Regional Rep.  Best time would be right before the post-convention LNC

meeting that begins each term.

 

Sam

Sam Goldstein

Libertarian National Committee

Member at Large

8925 N Meridian St, Ste 101

Indianapolis IN 46260

317-850-0726 Phone

317-582-1773 Fax

On Sun, Jun 26, 2016 at 2:21 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos <carynan...@gmail.com> wrote:

I find the idea "no clutter" for its own sake to be at the root of a lot of problems in the Party frankly and part of why we lack institutional knowledge.

 

I also can think of plenty of other reasons to oppose reorganizing around Federal Court Districts other than petty fiefdoms but these are bylaws questions - not the LNC purview though I would support that idea of equal regional and at large representatives.

 

That being said- if we think there is no problem with new RRs coming in and not knowing these things.... Okay.  And admittedly perhaps the PM is not a place for it.

 

Perhaps the RRs should just get together and write an unofficial manual the way the social media team has- but to deny we need something is foolish to me.

 

And for all I know this may already exist but because of the death of knowledge when people come and go-and an aversion to clutter- it isn't passed along.