ipad competition?
Kari Matthews
Bryan Smith
Amazon's Kindle runs Linux, BUT it was almost stifled by Microsoft
unless they signed a big fat hairy cross licensing agreement and paid
Microsoft $$$ to run Linux. The ipad killer is literally here already.
We have magnitudes more software available than the iphone OS can
imagine.
We just need someone to produce the thing, make nice pretty software
packages for the consumer to click and install, restrict the gui for
the average consumer yet allow developers and other hackers full
access to it. If not, people will hack it and squeeze Linux on it
anyway, thus the hackers create a niche buying frenzy. Why not open it
in the first place!
No one said anything about this CRAZY Amazon+Microsoft deal here in
the lug so I figured this topic was a good segue for it. Kari, here is
your Linux Ebook reader getting muscled by Microsoft. BTW, there are
also TONS of hacks for the Kindle to do nice things, but by itself the
Kindle sends your GPS locations, sites, syslog and books read back to
Amazon(not so nice)!
Short concise version of hacking the Kindle, I saw this at OSCON 2009
http://www.slideshare.net/obrajesse/hacking-your-kindle-oscon-lightning-talk
This is the LONG, detailed and rather humorous from the initial Kindle hacker
http://www.slideshare.net/obrajesse/beginning-kindle-hackery
Microsoft+Amazon deal news... FUD as usual
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13860_3-10457989-56.html?part=rss&subj=news&tag=2547-1_3-0-20
Bryan
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A healthy diet includes Linux, Linux, and more Linux.
Chris Miller
> Kari,
And list... :)
> Amazon's Kindle runs Linux, BUT it was almost stifled by Microsoft
> unless they signed a big fat hairy cross licensing agreement and paid
> Microsoft $$$ to run Linux. The ipad killer is literally here already.
BSD is just as capable an OS without the licensing issues. They're
similar enough that you could deploy BSD now, and then switch to a
Linux kernel later under the radar.
> We have magnitudes more software available than the iphone OS can
> imagine.
No. 33,333 packages in Debian does not mean there are literally
33,333 bits of software for you to use. Your average tablet computer
user doesn't care about SQL, libboost, or many of the other little
bits of software that glue Linux together.
iPhone platform has literally 100,000 actual apps for users to use.
Granted, 95,000 of them are total garbage (probably closer to 99,000
of them) but that's still 1,000 or so fantastic apps for people to
use.
In terms of realizing a dream of a better user experience, Apple is
far ahead of Linux. Technically Linux is more open and more capable.
Practically Apple is more advanced and more usable.
> We just need someone to produce the thing, make nice pretty software
> packages for the consumer to click and install, restrict the gui for
> the average consumer yet allow developers and other hackers full
> access to it. If not, people will hack it and squeeze Linux on it
Some kind of store for services to allow developers to have a means of
getting paid for their services would be nice, too. If a developer
builds a game that sends high scores to a server, it'd be nice to have
an easy unified payment system in the store to allow the user to pay
the developer for keeping that scores server running.
> anyway, thus the hackers create a niche buying frenzy. Why not open it
> in the first place!
>
> No one said anything about this CRAZY Amazon+Microsoft deal here in
> the lug so I figured this topic was a good segue for it. Kari, here is
I had never heard of it before, so it's news to me.
> your Linux Ebook reader getting muscled by Microsoft. BTW, there are
> also TONS of hacks for the Kindle to do nice things, but by itself the
> Kindle sends your GPS locations, sites, syslog and books read back to
> Amazon(not so nice)!
No colour screen. Major problem IMHO. While the screen is more
capable for actual book reading, I think the rich media we're seeing
news move towards is obsoleting the Kindle's technology.
For instance, the Wall Street Journal has an iPad app. For a
subscription fee, you can have news stories syndicated to your tablet
device in real time. It's also like a newspaper from Harry Potter
because it gives the journalists the ability to embed video in their
articles, and potentially other rich media based on JavaScript and
HTML5 elements. Publishing redactions and updates can be instant and
painless, not to mention free.
> Microsoft+Amazon deal news... FUD as usual
> http://news.cnet.com/8301-13860_3-10457989-56.html?part=rss&subj=news&tag=2547-1_3-0-20
Awesome, I'll bury their ideological credibility next to Novell's
(nobody left flowers, either. How rude).
--
Registered Linux Addict #431495
For Faith and Family! | John 3:16!
http://www.fsdev.net/
Bryan Smith
> On Thu, Apr 8, 2010 at 7:39 AM, Bryan Smith <bryans...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Kari,
>
> And list... :)
>
>> Amazon's Kindle runs Linux, BUT it was almost stifled by Microsoft
>> unless they signed a big fat hairy cross licensing agreement and paid
>> Microsoft $$$ to run Linux. The ipad killer is literally here already.
>
> BSD is just as capable an OS without the licensing issues. They're
> similar enough that you could deploy BSD now, and then switch to a
> Linux kernel later under the radar.
people to take and take to no end, yet never give back. While this is
fine for a manufacturer and the opportunists, it's not good for the
community as a whole.
>
>> We have magnitudes more software available than the iphone OS can
>> imagine.
>
> No. 33,333 packages in Debian does not mean there are literally
> 33,333 bits of software for you to use. Your average tablet computer
> user doesn't care about SQL, libboost, or many of the other little
> bits of software that glue Linux together.
>
> iPhone platform has literally 100,000 actual apps for users to use.
> Granted, 95,000 of them are total garbage (probably closer to 99,000
> of them) but that's still 1,000 or so fantastic apps for people to
> use.
the underlying program depends on it, regardless if the users knows
this(it's not a one line script, lol). I'm talking about practical
applications not the countless niche apps available for the iphone.
Point in case....how many deployments of iphone OS are there and how
many built around embedded Linux? Availability of apps is another
strong point, not having a store where everyone pays for Enterprise
level apps and get the menial entertainment apps for free or cents on
the dollar.
>
> In terms of realizing a dream of a better user experience, Apple is
> far ahead of Linux. Technically Linux is more open and more capable.
> Practically Apple is more advanced and more usable.
anyhow)! How long have you been using Linux/BSD? How can a system that
supports a very restricted hardware set be practically more advanced
and "usable"? Do you own a mac? That kernel is so naked it's
ridiculous. I own 3 Mac's and the first thing I do is install Linux,
FreeBSD and OpenBSD. OSX has more vendor support, that's all, It's
Unix! The differences are minimal besides that horrible kernel that
has literally no hardware support outside of specific chipsets. So
practically I can't hand someone an OSX disc and say install that and
you'll have everything you need.
>
>> We just need someone to produce the thing, make nice pretty software
>> packages for the consumer to click and install, restrict the gui for
>> the average consumer yet allow developers and other hackers full
>> access to it. If not, people will hack it and squeeze Linux on it
>
> Some kind of store for services to allow developers to have a means of
> getting paid for their services would be nice, too. If a developer
> builds a game that sends high scores to a server, it'd be nice to have
> an easy unified payment system in the store to allow the user to pay
> the developer for keeping that scores server running.
Linspire and their attempt to do as Apple has done. Provide a useless
system that is only truly usable when you pay for packages. I believe
that the community should support the projects monetarily but Open
Source developers generally don't make software with the plans of the
software itself making money. The services and support built around
the software create the revenue, so people must have access to it for
generate a need. Look at MySQL AB and the 1 Billion(1,000,000,000)
dollars SUN paid for it.
Chris Miller
> On 4/8/10, Chris Miller <lordsauro...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Thu, Apr 8, 2010 at 7:39 AM, Bryan Smith <bryans...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Amazon's Kindle runs Linux, BUT it was almost stifled by Microsoft
>>> unless they signed a big fat hairy cross licensing agreement and paid
>>> Microsoft $$$ to run Linux. The ipad killer is literally here already.
>>
>> BSD is just as capable an OS without the licensing issues. They're
>> similar enough that you could deploy BSD now, and then switch to a
>> Linux kernel later under the radar.
>
> I love BSD but the license issue BSD has is that it's license allows
> people to take and take to no end, yet never give back. While this is
> fine for a manufacturer and the opportunists, it's not good for the
> community as a whole.
active. I think this is mostly paranoia and unsupported accusations
of extremist GNU people.
And need I remind you of the developers that Apple has hired to work
full time on GCC and now on LLVM/CLang. Their new Grand Central
Dispatch library (libdispatch) is fully Open-Source (BSD license, if I
remember correctly). They have basically been the maintainer of CUPS,
so if you like to print from your Linux, you might want to drop Apple
some credit. OpenCL was essentially funded by Apple... and I think
I'm forgetting a few more.
True, they are kind of slothful to merge stuff back onto the BSD tree
(with regards to Mach). But they do eventually contribute back.
>>> We have magnitudes more software available than the iphone OS can
>>> imagine.
>>
>> No. 33,333 packages in Debian does not mean there are literally
>> 33,333 bits of software for you to use. Your average tablet computer
>> user doesn't care about SQL, libboost, or many of the other little
>> bits of software that glue Linux together.
>>
>> iPhone platform has literally 100,000 actual apps for users to use.
>> Granted, 95,000 of them are total garbage (probably closer to 99,000
>> of them) but that's still 1,000 or so fantastic apps for people to
>> use.
> No you say? It does actually mean that you are using that software if
> the underlying program depends on it, regardless if the users knows
> this(it's not a one line script, lol). I'm talking about practical
thousands of libraries, it doesn't mean that I care. Many folks use
package counts in their favourite distro's repository to prove how
much software is there for Linux. This is a total fallacy. The
software that matters is that which makes your user experience better.
If a programmer uses a library, that's cool. But I don't count
libraries and such because the average user doesn't benefit from it
directly.
> applications not the countless niche apps available for the iphone.
mention my copy of the Constitution, Declaration of Independence, and
complete library of religious texts.
> Point in case....how many deployments of iphone OS are there and how
> many built around embedded Linux? Availability of apps is another
then millions, perhaps billions.
I don't typically play pocket chess on my WRT54G though, so I'll just
submit that there have been sold 35 million iPhones and 65 million
iPod touch devices. There have been sold 650,000 iPad devices as of
yesterday or something like that.
> strong point, not having a store where everyone pays for Enterprise
> level apps and get the menial entertainment apps for free or cents on
> the dollar.
SourceForge, with so many bits of software out there, it's remarkably
difficult to find what you want. You can find thousands of apps that
do what you want, but finding the one you really like the best? That
could take months. :)
>> In terms of realizing a dream of a better user experience, Apple is
>> far ahead of Linux. Technically Linux is more open and more capable.
>> Practically Apple is more advanced and more usable.
>
> Wow, practical on what planet, Pluto(no wonder it's not a planet
> anyhow)! How long have you been using Linux/BSD? How can a system that
I don't have it in a desktop setting any more, but I hold root on
either three or four servers right now (depends on whether they shut
that last one down yet - it was migrated, but you know how things go).
> supports a very restricted hardware set be practically more advanced
> and "usable"? Do you own a mac? That kernel is so naked it's
Generation iPod touch (which is actually getting me buy offers from
other developers who covet the slower device for testing purposes).
I also have built my own desktop PC for gaming purposes, which runs a
copy of Windows 7 Professional 64-bit which I got for free through the
Microsoft Developer Network Academic Alliance programme, along with a
free copy of Visual Studio 2008 Professional. For the record, their
C/C++ compiler is rubbish. Use GCC or LLVM/CLang.
I hold root on my personal virtual private server hosted at prgmr.com,
a fantastic Xen based hosting solution. I admin two servers at work
that are on Slicehost, and have held root on two (now shut down)
Amazon EC2 servers (work related as well).
> ridiculous. I own 3 Mac's and the first thing I do is install Linux,
> FreeBSD and OpenBSD. OSX has more vendor support, that's all, It's
> Unix! The differences are minimal besides that horrible kernel that
restart Xorg many many times. I have had to reboot OS X maybe once
(and I think that was because I was running a virtual machine, the
iPhone simulator, Xcode, a web browser, a mail client, and an IRC
client - all at the same time. Let me just say that my laptop hit the
swapfile in a really big way). I have never had any OS X machine of
mine kernel panic. I have only witnessed a kernel panic once on OS X
(a friend showed me a Snow Leopard pre-release development seed).
You seem to be under this delusion that the mach kernel is some load
of rubbish that will segfault just as soon as load a ELF binary. It
isn't. OS X is packaged such that it lacks driver support for
non-Apple hardware. The Mach kernel in other settings is just as
capable as BSD and other equivalent distributions.
OS X is reliant on an EFI-style BIOS. Part of this is Apple trying to
prevent people from using OS X on non-Apple hardware. Honestly, if
you're going to whine about them using a different BIOS and then not
taking the time to add support for your BIOS, you're nuts. Apple is
under no obligation, moral or otherwise, to support your computer.
> has literally no hardware support outside of specific chipsets. So
> practically I can't hand someone an OSX disc and say install that and
> you'll have everything you need.
through partitioning, then package management, ensuring their video
drivers aren't royally screwed up, etc. If they have a wireless card
that isn't supported by their particular kernel version, well, may
Heaven have mercy on their soul!
You need to know a lot more about your operating system to operate
Linux. You can be relatively incompetent and still use a Mac. That's
usability. The software should conform to you, not the other way
around.
>>> We just need someone to produce the thing, make nice pretty software
>>> packages for the consumer to click and install, restrict the gui for
>>> the average consumer yet allow developers and other hackers full
>>> access to it. If not, people will hack it and squeeze Linux on it
>>
>> Some kind of store for services to allow developers to have a means of
>> getting paid for their services would be nice, too. If a developer
>> builds a game that sends high scores to a server, it'd be nice to have
>> an easy unified payment system in the store to allow the user to pay
>> the developer for keeping that scores server running.
>
> App stores in Open Source are epic fails generally. Ever played with
> Linspire and their attempt to do as Apple has done. Provide a useless
> system that is only truly usable when you pay for packages. I believe
maintain servers, they package the software and ensure that it works
together. That's a difficult and time-consuming job. Why do you want
for people to just give you their time and talent for free?
The point of projects like Debian or BSD is that the volunteers know
that they're doing everything gratis. What's wrong with Linspire
trying to sell their professional work? I don't use it because I
don't want to pay for it. I can get along with my own talent and free
stuff like Debian and BSD. Nothing wrong with that.
> that the community should support the projects monetarily but Open
> Source developers generally don't make software with the plans of the
> software itself making money. The services and support built around
simply we wouldn't see professional computer scientists. If I didn't
have the ability to get paid a full time job for having a deep
understanding of how to write software, how to make it efficient, and
how to use the right programmatic tool for the job, then I wouldn't
have the means to acquire that information and concurrently perform
another career. Same applies to many, many people.
If there are no professional computer scientists, then you won't see
professional software. Most Open-Source Software is built by
professional computer scientists who are either employed elsewhere or
have found ways to monetize their support skills for the software they
write. Or it is built by professional computer scientists who are
employed by corporations who have a stake in the software (IBM has
funded Linux kernel coders for the longest of times - as a result,
features that are important to IBM have a strange tendency to get done
really fast because they have the coders on payroll to do it. When
there are no longer any features IBM feels it needs, then the coders
resume normal work that is prioritized by the community's needs and
wants.)
> the software create the revenue, so people must have access to it for
> generate a need. Look at MySQL AB and the 1 Billion(1,000,000,000)
> dollars SUN paid for it.
one of the reasons their value was so low and why Oracle was able to
buy them out in the middle of an economic recession.
I view Sun as a corporate gravestone marking the way not to do business.
Xavier Naldo
Anyways, power to the COMMUNITY!!!! DEATH TO THE CORPORATE MONEY-HUNGRYS!! Its guerrilla warfare and Microsoft is the prey!! HAHAHA Power to LINUX!!
Chris Miller
> HAHAH! Wait! Aren't we battling Microsoft or each other? We know MS is the
> biggest propriety software company out there and that company has done the
> best marketing and took a lousy crappy vulnerable product and sugar-coat it
> with sweet stuff just to reel the consumers in. Now that's marketing...but
> at the same time cruel to the consumers in making them believe MS is the
> only OS they can use in their PC's. I HATE MICROSOFT!! That's why I have
> been using GNU/Linux for 13 years now and will continue to embrace the
> open-source and free-software movements!!! True, that professional comp.
> scientists have to be paid, and I have no disagreements with that, BUT to
> create such lousy products (I mean, Windows and all its versions), and sell
> them to consumers is damn right cruel and pathetic! When will that baldy,
> white man named Steve Ballmer, understand that he is on the losing boat and
> needs to make some changes to his products? All I know is that I am NOT
> going to let the white man restrict my computer usage or tell me what to do
> on my computer!! Hence why I switched to Linux 13 years ago. Now, you may
> respond by advising me to explain further about my statements above, but I
> will save for later. All I know is that Linux is fine the way it is.....and
> it's cousins, OSX, * BSD's, and others should embrace and be strong within
> each other to stand against the Microsoft FUD and pathetic Steve Ballmer and
> his crew of crooks and money-hungry stuck-ups!
>
> Anyways, power to the COMMUNITY!!!! DEATH TO THE CORPORATE MONEY-HUNGRYS!!
> Its guerrilla warfare and Microsoft is the prey!! HAHAHA Power to LINUX!!
You may have a career as a fanatical ultranationalist supporter there
buddy. Keep it up!
Xavier Naldo
Anyways, to be civilized, can't we all just get along?