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Porting Debian arm(hf) to Turris Omnia (open-hardware router)

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Ondřej Surý

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Nov 13, 2015, 9:20:03 AM11/13/15
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Hey folks,

we (@CZ.NIC) built open-hardware[1] and open-source[2] router called
Turris Omnia (https://omnia.turris.cz/en/); I spoke about it shortly
@DebConf15 lightning talks, and now we have IGG campaign
(http://igg.me/at/turris-omnia) - and some people are already asking
about running pure Debian on the box.

And here's the question -> would anybody be willing to help us port
Debian armhf in exchange of the prototype? We can help with uboot, and
switchchip, but it will need some work anyway, etc...

P.S.: Please Cc me as I am not subscribed to the list.

1. the schematics will be available when we finalize the schema; you can
check the previous mips based versions here:
https://www.turris.cz/en/hardware-documentation
2. right now it's based on OpenWRT

Cheers,
--
Ondřej Surý <ond...@sury.org>
Knot DNS (https://www.knot-dns.cz/) – a high-performance DNS server

Uwe Kleine-König

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Nov 14, 2015, 4:10:02 PM11/14/15
to
Hello Ondřej,

On 11/13/2015 02:55 PM, Ondřej Surý wrote:
> we (@CZ.NIC) built open-hardware[1] and open-source[2] router called
> Turris Omnia (https://omnia.turris.cz/en/); I spoke about it shortly
> @DebConf15 lightning talks, and now we have IGG campaign
> (http://igg.me/at/turris-omnia) - and some people are already asking
> about running pure Debian on the box.
>
> And here's the question -> would anybody be willing to help us port
> Debian armhf in exchange of the prototype? We can help with uboot, and
> switchchip, but it will need some work anyway, etc...

Sounds interesting. Which switch do you consider to use? Will there be
open documentation available? Under an NDA? My dayjob is to support
companies to put Linux on their hardware and the usual scenario is that
the manufacturer isn't allowed to share the documentation of switches
with us.

> 1. the schematics will be available when we finalize the schema; you can
> check the previous mips based versions here:
> https://www.turris.cz/en/hardware-documentation
> 2. right now it's based on OpenWRT

I took a quick look at the schematic, and the cpu is called
"P2020NSE2MHC". This is the name of a powerpc processor manufactured by
Freescale. Who is wrong here?

This design used a QCA8337N-AL3C switch, I failed to find reliable data
on the net for that quickly, but it seems it needs a binary blob to be
operated by Linux?!

Best regards
Uwe

Ondřej Surý

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Nov 15, 2015, 4:30:03 AM11/15/15
to
Hi Uwe,

(I'll respond to others later next week).

On Sat, Nov 14, 2015, at 22:07, Uwe Kleine-König wrote:
> Hello Ondřej,
>
> On 11/13/2015 02:55 PM, Ondřej Surý wrote:
> > we (@CZ.NIC) built open-hardware[1] and open-source[2] router called
> > Turris Omnia (https://omnia.turris.cz/en/); I spoke about it shortly
> > @DebConf15 lightning talks, and now we have IGG campaign
> > (http://igg.me/at/turris-omnia) - and some people are already asking
> > about running pure Debian on the box.
> >
> > And here's the question -> would anybody be willing to help us port
> > Debian armhf in exchange of the prototype? We can help with uboot, and
> > switchchip, but it will need some work anyway, etc...
>
> Sounds interesting. Which switch do you consider to use? Will there be
> open documentation available? Under an NDA? My dayjob is to support
> companies to put Linux on their hardware and the usual scenario is that
> the manufacturer isn't allowed to share the documentation of switches
> with us.

Definitely not Broadcom as we are too small for them to even notice. I
am Ccing my colleague Martin, who is the head of the project, and he can
answer in more detail.

> > 1. the schematics will be available when we finalize the schema; you can
> > check the previous mips based versions here:
> > https://www.turris.cz/en/hardware-documentation
> > 2. right now it's based on OpenWRT
>
> I took a quick look at the schematic, and the cpu is called
> "P2020NSE2MHC". This is the name of a powerpc processor manufactured by
> Freescale. Who is wrong here?

This is Turris 1.0 and 1.1 schematics that were used in the security
project of ours.

Turris Omnia uses Marvell Armada 385.

> This design used a QCA8337N-AL3C switch, I failed to find reliable data
> on the net for that quickly, but it seems it needs a binary blob to be
> operated by Linux?!

As far as I know the only thing that needs the binary blob is the
default AC wifi cards in the complete package (not just the board), but
you can use any wifi card that you like.

Ondrej

Lennart Sorensen

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Nov 16, 2015, 12:50:03 PM11/16/15
to
On Sun, Nov 15, 2015 at 10:05:49AM +0100, Ondřej Surý wrote:
> Definitely not Broadcom as we are too small for them to even notice. I
> am Ccing my colleague Martin, who is the head of the project, and he can
> answer in more detail.
>
> This is Turris 1.0 and 1.1 schematics that were used in the security
> project of ours.
>
> Turris Omnia uses Marvell Armada 385.

Well with that CPU, Debian armhf user space will work fine with no changes.
You would need to get kernel support included upstream before Debian is
likely to include it in their kernel. Hopefully marvell is working on
that already. Given I see armada 385 and 388 dts files in the upstream
kernel, clearly some work is happening there.

--
Len Sorensen

Martin Strbačka

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Nov 20, 2015, 10:20:02 AM11/20/15
to
On 15.11.2015 10:05, Ondřej Surý wrote:
> Hi Uwe,
>
> (I'll respond to others later next week).
>
> On Sat, Nov 14, 2015, at 22:07, Uwe Kleine-König wrote:
>> Hello Ondřej,
>>
>> On 11/13/2015 02:55 PM, Ondřej Surý wrote:
>>> we (@CZ.NIC) built open-hardware[1] and open-source[2] router called
>>> Turris Omnia (https://omnia.turris.cz/en/); I spoke about it shortly
>>> @DebConf15 lightning talks, and now we have IGG campaign
>>> (http://igg.me/at/turris-omnia) - and some people are already asking
>>> about running pure Debian on the box.
>>>
>>> And here's the question -> would anybody be willing to help us port
>>> Debian armhf in exchange of the prototype? We can help with uboot, and
>>> switchchip, but it will need some work anyway, etc...
>>
>> Sounds interesting. Which switch do you consider to use? Will there be
>> open documentation available? Under an NDA? My dayjob is to support
>> companies to put Linux on their hardware and the usual scenario is that
>> the manufacturer isn't allowed to share the documentation of switches
>> with us.
>
> Definitely not Broadcom as we are too small for them to even notice. I
> am Ccing my colleague Martin, who is the head of the project, and he can
> answer in more detail.

Hello, the switch-chip is Marvell 88E6176. Unfortunately you are right
we are not allowed to share the documentation.

>
>>> 1. the schematics will be available when we finalize the schema; you can
>>> check the previous mips based versions here:
>>> https://www.turris.cz/en/hardware-documentation
>>> 2. right now it's based on OpenWRT
>>
>> I took a quick look at the schematic, and the cpu is called
>> "P2020NSE2MHC". This is the name of a powerpc processor manufactured by
>> Freescale. Who is wrong here?
>
> This is Turris 1.0 and 1.1 schematics that were used in the security
> project of ours.
>
> Turris Omnia uses Marvell Armada 385.
>
>> This design used a QCA8337N-AL3C switch, I failed to find reliable data
>> on the net for that quickly, but it seems it needs a binary blob to be
>> operated by Linux?!
>
> As far as I know the only thing that needs the binary blob is the
> default AC wifi cards in the complete package (not just the board), but
> you can use any wifi card that you like.

That's right. Apart from the wifi card (ath10k) Omnia doesn't need any
firmware blobs.
QCA8337N-AL3C doesn't need any blob as well. The memory with bootstrap
code you've probably read about is optional.

Martin

>
> Ondrej
>


--
Martin Strbacka CZ.NIC, z.s.p.o. tel. +420 604 217 854

Uwe Kleine-König

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Nov 20, 2015, 2:00:03 PM11/20/15
to
Hello Martin,

On 11/20/2015 03:49 PM, Martin Strbačka wrote:
> On 15.11.2015 10:05, Ondřej Surý wrote:
>> On Sat, Nov 14, 2015, at 22:07, Uwe Kleine-König wrote:
>>> On 11/13/2015 02:55 PM, Ondřej Surý wrote:
>>>> we (@CZ.NIC) built open-hardware[1] and open-source[2] router called
>>>> Turris Omnia (https://omnia.turris.cz/en/); I spoke about it shortly
>>>> @DebConf15 lightning talks, and now we have IGG campaign
>>>> (http://igg.me/at/turris-omnia) - and some people are already asking
>>>> about running pure Debian on the box.
>>>>
>>>> And here's the question -> would anybody be willing to help us port
>>>> Debian armhf in exchange of the prototype? We can help with uboot, and
>>>> switchchip, but it will need some work anyway, etc...
>>>
>>> Sounds interesting. Which switch do you consider to use? Will there be
>>> open documentation available? Under an NDA? My dayjob is to support
>>> companies to put Linux on their hardware and the usual scenario is that
>>> the manufacturer isn't allowed to share the documentation of switches
>>> with us.
>>
>> Definitely not Broadcom as we are too small for them to even notice. I
>> am Ccing my colleague Martin, who is the head of the project, and he can
>> answer in more detail.
>
> Hello, the switch-chip is Marvell 88E6176. Unfortunately you are right
> we are not allowed to share the documentation.

Is this device similar to a previous switch model by Marvell? It seems
openwrt already knows a bit about this switch. I will check in the next
few days if I consider getting support for that one into the mainline
kernel manageable for me. Other than that I wouldn't expect big
problems. Do you have a preliminary device tree or even openwrt support
patches already?

Best regards
Uwe

Lennart Sorensen

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Nov 20, 2015, 2:40:03 PM11/20/15
to
On Fri, Nov 20, 2015 at 07:56:33PM +0100, Uwe Kleine-König wrote:
> Is this device similar to a previous switch model by Marvell? It seems
> openwrt already knows a bit about this switch. I will check in the next
> few days if I consider getting support for that one into the mainline
> kernel manageable for me. Other than that I wouldn't expect big
> problems. Do you have a preliminary device tree or even openwrt support
> patches already?

My understanding is that marvell switch chips are rarely similar in
their register mappings. The functionality and the way they work is
often similar (at least within a family) but without the register map
that doesn't help that much.

I don't know why switch chip makers think their documentation is so
special that it has to be kept secret.

--
Len Sorensen

Martin Strbačka

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Nov 30, 2015, 3:10:02 PM11/30/15
to
I can't say. I haven't worked with any other Marvell switch before.

> It seems
> openwrt already knows a bit about this switch.
> I will check in the next
> few days if I consider getting support for that one into the mainline
> kernel manageable for me. Other than that I wouldn't expect big
> problems. Do you have a preliminary device tree or even openwrt support
> patches already?

Yes we have that but it is not publicly available yet. I added my
colleague Tomas Hlavacek who's the author of most of the low-level code.
He can send you those patches.

Best Regards,
Martin

>
> Best regards
> Uwe

Uwe Kleine-König

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Dec 8, 2015, 2:20:02 PM12/8/15
to
Hello Martin,

On 11/20/2015 07:56 PM, Uwe Kleine-König wrote:
> On 11/20/2015 03:49 PM, Martin Strbačka wrote:
>> Hello, the switch-chip is Marvell 88E6176. Unfortunately you are right
>> we are not allowed to share the documentation.
>
> Is this device similar to a previous switch model by Marvell? It seems
> openwrt already knows a bit about this switch. I will check in the next

I checked openwrt now, and the driver I found there
(target/linux/imx6/files-4.1/drivers/net/phy/gw16083.c) is a dumb phy
driver and not using DSA and judging from a quick look not exposing any
switch functionality. So without getting more documentation the switch
isn't supportable in mainline Linux/Debian. If it's ok to configure the
switch in the boot loader (assuming this is possible using RMII) and use
it as is in Linux I'd volunteer to get you machine supported by Debian.

Judging from the people I'm in contact with during my dayjob, I'd say
even when I sign an NDA sharing the documents for the switch isn't
possible. Still I'd suggest that you ask your Marvell contact, to
increase awareness of the needs and wishes of the open source people at
Marvell.

> few days if I consider getting support for that one into the mainline
> kernel manageable for me. Other than that I wouldn't expect big
> problems. Do you have a preliminary device tree or even openwrt support
> patches already?

This would still be nice.

Best regards
Uwe

Axel Beckert

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Sep 24, 2016, 6:40:02 PM9/24/16
to
Hi,
Anyone knows what's the state about Debian on Turris Omnia?
https://wiki.debian.org/InstallingDebianOn/Router is very scarce on
that topic.

I'm currently thinking about buying one or two of them and running
Debian on them would be a very interesting option.

Regards, Axel
--
,''`. | Axel Beckert <a...@debian.org>, http://people.debian.org/~abe/
: :' : | Debian Developer, ftp.ch.debian.org Admin
`. `' | 4096R: 2517 B724 C5F6 CA99 5329 6E61 2FF9 CD59 6126 16B5
`- | 1024D: F067 EA27 26B9 C3FC 1486 202E C09E 1D89 9593 0EDE

Paul Wise

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Sep 24, 2016, 10:30:02 PM9/24/16
to
On Sun, Sep 25, 2016 at 6:33 AM, Axel Beckert wrote:

> Anyone knows what's the state about Debian on Turris Omnia?
> https://wiki.debian.org/InstallingDebianOn/Router is very scarce on
> that topic.

The initial crowdfunding devices have only just started shipping, so
not many people actually have them to be able to update that.

> I'm currently thinking about buying one or two of them and running
> Debian on them would be a very interesting option.

Likewise.

--
bye,
pabs

https://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise

Tomas Hlavacek

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Sep 25, 2016, 5:00:02 AM9/25/16
to
Hi Axel!

On Sunday, September 25, 2016 12:33:19 AM CEST, Axel Beckert wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Lennart Sorensen wrote on Mon, 16 Nov 2015 12:42:58 -0500:
>> On Sun, Nov 15, 2015 at 10:05:49AM +0100, Ondřej Surý wrote:
>>> Turris Omnia uses Marvell Armada 385.
>>
>> Well with that CPU, Debian armhf user space will work fine
>> with no changes.
>> You would need to get kernel support included upstream before Debian is
>> likely to include it in their kernel. Hopefully marvell is working on
>> that already. Given I see armada 385 and 388 dts files in the upstream
>> kernel, clearly some work is happening there.
>
> Anyone knows what's the state about Debian on Turris Omnia?
> https://wiki.debian.org/InstallingDebianOn/Router is very scarce on
> that topic.
>
> I'm currently thinking about buying one or two of them and running
> Debian on them would be a very interesting option.

I have created a Debian image for development purposes. You basically need
custom kernel (https://github.com/tmshlvck/omnia-linux), swconfig and one
extra script for SFP management. That's it.

Here is a Debian image creator script
https://github.com/tmshlvck/omnia-debian and here I have a simple
installation howto: https://github.com/tmshlvck/omnia-debian/wiki

I would be glad if someone can take it and do it in the proper Debian
way... We work on upstreaming our patches in kernel, but it is certainly
going to take some time.

Cheers,
Tomas

Axel Beckert

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Sep 25, 2016, 8:30:02 AM9/25/16
to
Hi Thomas,

Tomas Hlavacek wrote:
> >Anyone knows what's the state about Debian on Turris Omnia?
> >https://wiki.debian.org/InstallingDebianOn/Router is very scarce on
> >that topic.
[...]
> I have created a Debian image for development purposes. You
> basically need custom kernel
> (https://github.com/tmshlvck/omnia-linux), swconfig and one extra
> script for SFP management. That's it.

Thanks for the update!

> Here is a Debian image creator script
> https://github.com/tmshlvck/omnia-debian and here I have a simple
> installation howto: https://github.com/tmshlvck/omnia-debian/wiki

Cool. I've created a page in the Debian Wiki with that information at
https://wiki.debian.org/InstallingDebianOn/TurrisOmnia and linked from
https://wiki.debian.org/InstallingDebianOn/Router to it.

So in the future, it will be easier found if someone searches for
Turris Omnia in the Debian Wiki.

> I would be glad if someone can take it and do it in the proper
> Debian way... We work on upstreaming our patches in kernel, but it
> is certainly going to take some time.

The latter is AFAIK an requirement for getting it in Debian proper.

Anyway, that script is already good news, thanks!

Uwe Kleine-König

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Sep 25, 2016, 3:00:02 PM9/25/16
to
Hello Axel,

On 09/25/2016 12:33 AM, Axel Beckert wrote:
> Anyone knows what's the state about Debian on Turris Omnia?
> https://wiki.debian.org/InstallingDebianOn/Router is very scarce on
> that topic.

Compared to an ordinary router the Turris Omnia is not very typical. It
has more RAM and flash which makes it much more suitable for Debian.

I'd love to improve the support of Debian for this hardware, but for
reasons I didn't receive a router to work on this yet :-|

Best regards
Uwe
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