Setup and Configure translation

[Fantaw Tesema]

Hello everybody.

Am still going on.

The following words are translated confusingly before.

Configure     ውቀር
Configuration    ውቅረት
Set            አዘጋጅ
Setup     መዋቅር
Setting    ቅንብር

Do you have a better translation to avoid misunderstanding?

There should be better words or adjustments.

As for now I call Set = ተምን 

Have a pleasant weekend!  BR //FT

[Eyob Fitwi]

Hi Fantish,

ተምን means 'to rate', which is way off base. These translations are fine as they are. They may have originated from the same root word, which is what confused you, but the contexts they are used in are quite distinct. Context is the key here.

Best regards,
Eyob

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[Fantaw Tesema]

Thanks Eyob!

Yes that is correct about context is the key here. At the same time, there is a reason why the English words like Configure, Set, Setup, Setting and even Install sound different in a specific context. As you can see, Configure and Setup are translated almost the same, but these two words have different meaning in the same context. I am not confused but I think they are translated to confuse. They need to be differentiate in Amharic as well. There should be a good word that fits and understood and sounds a bit more different.

I think:
Configuration is the choice the user make in order to meet his or her needs.
While Setup is making something ready in a Computer so that the user can execute.

There are other several words which are translated to Amharic likewise as well and two different words were translated with one Amharic word.

And am not that happy Set is actually አዘጋጅ BR //FT

[Eyob Fitwi]

Fantish,

There is something we must take care to avoid in the translation world - literal translation. You mustn't force a parallel word-for-word translation. I know I did in my earlier days. What works for one language doesn't necessarily work for another. You are right, there is a reason these different terms are used in English. And it works for English only. Whether it works in another language is something we will have to check out on an individual basis.

Sometimes different concepts that are covered by different terms in English are covered by a few or single term in Amharic, the difference of which (if any) you will have to infer from the nuance and the context. Sometimes English is needlessly wordy, sometimes Amharic has a shortage of words.

Let me give you an example. How would you translate individually the terms 'large', 'huge', 'enormous', 'titanic', 'gigantic', 'big', 'humongous'? You would have no choice but to settle for ትልቅ and/or ግዙፍ.

From experience, we usually encounter 'setup' when we are setting up or preparing a product for the first time. Any modifications after that, especially if they're a bit advanced, usually use 'configure'. However, in Amharic, the term ማዋቀር suits both contexts without any problems. Unlike English, it deems the difference in contexts of 'setup' and 'configure' as unnecessary. It's identifying these differences and addressing them that constitutes localization. Although አዘጋጅ is relatively better for 'set' than other alternatives out there, I agree in that it doesn't hit the tone right. It's only the better alternative available.

The challenge is bigger though. We are trying to accelerate the development of Amharic to adapt to a rapidly growing technology in a too short a time. So the best option we have is to follow the practices used by other more experienced bodies so that we are at least consistent with the general trend.

I understand where you're coming from. I really do. I face worse challenges and grudgingly have to settle with solutions I feel are inferior. But I also realize that departing from the general practice is not advisable. Instead, we could discuss like last time on the spreadsheet you sent a while ago. I think we were able to make better progress.

Best regards,
Eyob

[Fantaw Tesema]

Thanks Eyob again!!

I agree with Set = አዘጋጅ as log as we do not have other better words. That is fine!

When I translate this second round, I search and look some sources like www.amharicdictionary.com, https://glosbe.com/en/am/ , https://am.wiktionary.org/wiki/Comp_Glossary and the reference pdf file one of you sent it here before. In reality, many words translations in these resources are not translated the same and sometimes they give a different meaning than intended. In my opinion these resources can not totally be a reference even though any particular word that is translated with wrong meaning is used by Microsoft or Google.

It will not be corrected perhaps for ever. If we know we have a better word then we should not settle for less. We should do something about it.

I have also got a new dictionary from Ethiopia about two months ago, it is a new revision but unfortunately it is not helping much, but a little. When I double check, configuration is translated to ቅመጣ። I am not sure if this is right though. Any way,  as I have mentioned last time Configure = ውቅረት and setup = መዋቅር have a similar translation.  setup = መዋቅር is a very good translation, but Configure = ውቅረት is a bad translation, if we think about it, there should be a better word like in the dictionary ቅመጣ  or something else. As I have mentioned before, I still believe we have good Amharic words in many cases, we just need to be open for changes as long as there is no a standard yet. 

If we think, a word is well established, and we now know that we have a better word, then we should go for change. No matter even Microsoft or Google use it, other wise, it may not be corrected for a long time or may be for ever. 

I agree we do not need to translate word to word, at the same time if we think, there may be also matching words in Amharic.
As you mentioned above:

"How would you translate individually the terms 'large', 'huge', 'enormous', 'titanic', 'gigantic', 'big', 'humongous'? You would have no choice but to settle for ትልቅ and/or ግዙፍ."

I think, in addition to ትልቅ፣ ግዙ, we have ግብዳ፣ አንዳች/እብድ/ተራራ የሚያህል ወዘተ አለን። At the same time, I think in any language, there are words people differ in speaking and writing including English, Amharic and so on. Meaning that there are words more in speaking but less and correct words in writing. For example, it is more appropriate to write ግዙፍ/ግብድ instead of እብድ የሚያህል። So in other languages, i think. 

In my opinion, I still believe Amharic is a rich language, we should search, check, cooperate, help each other before we settle for less when we know the existing translation is less satisfying or not well thought of the meaning, especially those words with similarities in the same context. There are many examples, I will come back about these later. BR. //FT

[Fantaw Tesema]

Hello again!

I was thinking and suddenly come to idea "set = አቀናጅ" instead of አዘጋጅ if this does not conflict with other word. Anyway, sounds good for me. What do you think? 

And there is a conflict between "Post and Paste" Eyob has suggested "Post =  ለጥፍ/ልጥፍ እንደሁኔታው" I have continued with  ለጥፍ/ልጥፍ. Now, how can we translate Paste? Both can not have the same word. I have not found the best word in Amharic for Paste yet but I know there is. Help! BR. //FT

[Eyob Fitwi]

Hi Fantish,

(including my response to yesterday's email)

The frustrating problem with Amharic is that there is no central language authority to oversee the language's development (or any other language for that matter). Hence lexicographers work independently without reference to a common source, and some without even qualification to do so. I'm afraid this is a challenge we will have to just trudge through.

Regarding ቅመጣ, it appears as if it is derived from the root word ቀመጠ (አስቀመጠ/ማስቀመጥ), which should've been a noun form of 'save'. As I said, this appears to be a problem of lack of linguistic oversight. Regarding ውቅረት, it is technically correct. 'Configuration' is the noun form of 'configure' as ውቅረት is the noun form of ማዋቀር. Here's my experience. I didn't arrive at that using any reference. As I came repeatedly across it I evolved into using it. It may not be familiar, but seems linguistically intact. ውቅር maybe another viable option but it feels more like a callback to Ge'ez. Anyway, I suggest we leave it as it is.

The translations you added for 'big' et. al. are informal and some are figurative. They may have their contexts in which they apply, but are not direct translations of the terms.

Still, I am all for trying other options, even if it means deviating from the norm. We could come up with better translations. All I'm saying is that we shouldn't get ahead of ourselves and deviate with strict necessity and consideration. This should be constant.

I have no objection for አቀናጅ. In fact, አዘጋጅ is more generic, so አቀናጅ may be preferable. Good work.

I agree 'Post and Paste' is a problem. Problem is Amharic normally uses the same term for both of them. This is where literal translation can trick us. If you have come across 'post and paste' as a string, simply use ለጥፍ once. It can cover both. Think about it, 'Posting' and 'Pasting' are basically the same action. Other than that we will simply have to trust that the contexts will clarify them if necessary.

Best regards,
Eyob

[Fantaw Tesema]

I have to say thanks again Eyob,

I did not know what ቅመጣ is before you explained. Thanks. And OK about Configure and ውቅረት at this time. I will go ahead with this and we will see what will happen when we think and use it in the future.

Happy you like Set =  አቀናጅ። As for Paste I think we can use ለጥፍ as you suggested but think of it like Configure. I suggest, like you also have, we remember some words like this with question marks just in case we come up with independent translation later on to make it more distinct and understandable quickly. I will note words like these.

Another thing:

I have been translating wp 3.8.x because of the starting point, it is now almost 100% translated excluding second round, may 85% on second round. Any way WP is on 4.3.x where 4.2.x is only 75% Amharic translated. I think the same strings from 3.8 is updated automatically to WP 4.2.x? Please remember am not sure about this. The rests 25% might be strings which are not inside 3.8.x.....

Will start on 4.2.x and leave 3.8 from now on. Guys, you can see now how a silly man I am. Any way may be it is better to be silly than sit down and be idle. For me, no harm is done regarding the translation and the help I got here. I will only have to use additional time and go forward with the translation help and advice I got, especially from Eyob. BR //FT

[Fantaw Tesema]

Hello everybody,

We have been talking about 'Post and Paste' translation which was a bit problem. I have been thinking for alternative translation for "Post = ለትም/ለትመው/ለብድ may be ለብድ is a bit strange. I think ለትም is more approximate. What do you think? We may even have a better word. Are you encouraged for ideas? I still believe there are more alternative Amharic words if we dig and do not settle for less. It is very much possible that we even have more Amharic alternative words than a given and equivalent English word in most cases. This is because Amharic is very much flexible. We just need to give it time and thoughts.

Have a pleasant evening. BR //FT 

[Fantaw Tesema]

Now I remember one more word: አጣብቅ / አጣብቀው

The total suggested word for "Paste" is ለትም / ለብድ / አጣብቅ

I hope you may suggest a better word or something. BR //FT

[Fantaw Tesema]

Hello Everybody again,

As you can see, I have suggested Amharic translation words for "Paste" to differentiate it form "Post" which is "ልጥፍ/ለጥፍ" እንደሁኔታው። 

The alternatives for paste  are ለትም / ለብድ / አጣብቅ. I you to suggest on these words or if you have another alternative. We should not use the same Amharic word for both Post and Paste. Please let me know within two days how I can proceed. For now and to start with and your information, i pick አጣብቅ.

Have a pleasant evening. BR //FT

[Eyob Fitwi]

Hi,

When we say 'post', imagine posting something on a bulletin board. In Amharic, we say ማስታወቂያ ተለጥፏል, የስም ዝርዝር ተለጥፏል, etc., not ማስታወቂያው ተለትሟል፣ ማስታወቂያው ተለብዷል or ማስታወቂያው ተጣብቋል.

Besides, the terms you suggested are not appropriate for 'post'.

ለብድ is laminate. It denotes the joining of layers of physical objects to each other.
ማጣበቅ is to glue/stick together. Not exactly the image of 'posting'.
ለትም is pin or slam against. As in if an attack or striking is involved.

We simply have to accept that ለጥፍ covers both terms and the contexts will differentiate them if necessary. If anything, ማጣበቅ can be used as an alternative for 'paste', but I don't want to go too literal here. I suggest we leave them as they are and we don't need to overwork ourselves on this.

Best regards,
Eyob

[Fantaw Tesema]

Hello,

I was only talking about for Paste. Already agreed and proceeded for Post = ልጥፍ / ለጥፍ። Cheers!!

Yes, thanks, I was aware of those terms you mentioned on suggested alternative Amharic words for Paste. Those were suggestions to make aware of everybody that it is possible. Please let me know if you can find appropriate word which is better than አጣብቅ። There must be a better word here, believe me, we do not have a good reason to use same Amharic word for both Post and Paste as they are not totally the same when the are in actions, if we want the translation is somehow reasonable or well thought. Have a pleasant day! //FT  

[Eyob Fitwi]

Oh, sorry, didn't see that.

The reason we should be considering another text is not because we are using the same word, it should be because it does not transfer the idea. Did we establish that ለጥፍ does not represent the function denoted by 'paste'? I don't think so. As I said technically ማጣበቅ can be an alternative for 'paste' but this will be literal. When I say we must avoid literal translation, it also includes forcing a parallelization of the languages (i.e., English uses two words, so we must also use two words for Amharic). Let's explore a little deeper.

Let's check out 'copy and paste'. This is basically copying a text, image, etc. and reproducing it in another area. Do you think it makes sense to say ጽሑፉን አጣብቀው? ጽሑፍ ይጻፋል፣ ይገለበጣል፣ ወዘተ. እንጂ «አታጣብቀውም»፣ በተለይ ተሰራዥ ወይም ቦታውን አሁንም እንዳሻህ ልትቀያይር የምትችል መሆኑን ሲታሰብ። ጽሑፉን መለጠፍ ሲባል ቢያንስ ከማስታወቂያ መለጠፍ፣ ወዘተ. ጋር የሆነ ቁርኝት ይኖረዋል። «ስዕሉን ደብተር ላይ ለጥፈው» ሲባል እንጂ «ስዕሉን ደብተር ላይ አጣብቀው» ሲባል ብዙም አንሰማም።

ማጣበቅ (gluing, sticking together) has more permanency, as if to change the nature of the objects being joined, which is less relevant for our context required. If you visualize it, 'pasting' is more of pinning or laying down of the objects (text, etc.).

You get my drift, right? This is just the nature of the language. It has a word that covers a broader context than the segmented contexts of 'post' and 'paste' and we just have to accept that. The functions of 'paste' and 'post' are actually functions whose boundaries are arguably not clear. You can even argue that the English terms are needlessly made redundant, hence making the Amharic version superior.

Best regards,
Eyob

[tegegne tefera]

Eyob

I truly appreciate the depth of your analysis. You are making a valuable input to the adoption of IT technology in Ethiopia.
I hope those who are controlling the resources see the potential you have to change things for the better and allow you to do so.

[Fantaw Tesema]

Yes, got your point.

I have a tendency to using more time and thinking to translate words like Post/Paste as they are not the same in Amharic terms. Partly it is because one gets a different post/paste definition in English and partly it is challenging to discover the Amharic equivalent words according to English defections and believing there are in Amharic. 

ለጥፍ for Post/Paste may open eyes for other some English words as well. We will see. Again, I wish we could have done it differently but when it fits, why not.

Having saying that, thanks again and I will proceed. BR. //FT 

Best regards

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