Space availability

[Marc Jennings]

Hi all, 

First things first : this isn't meant to be a rant, but it may turn into something resembling one.  Apologies in advance if it gets anyone's backs up.  That's not the intent.

I've found over the past few months that the space is unavailable to members at many of the times I've wanted to come along.  As a result, I think I have used the space twice in the 5 months since I joined up.  I know there is a lot going on at the new space and so there have not been as many folks at the old space as a result.  I was wondering if there are plans for extended availability at the new space without having to be a keyholder (I am not comfortable applying for keyholder status myself, even if I was known enough or trusted to be such).  I am conscious that I have been paying my monthly fees for 5 months, and the maths just don't add up for me right now - £62 per hour to use the space is less than ideal, as I'm sure you can imagine.

TL;DR:

The space seems always to be shut whenever I want to use it.  Is that going to be less of an issue in the new space?

Thanks

Marc.

[mar...@ranyard.info]

Hi Marc,

There is definitely a major focus on getting people to use their spare
time on making the new space ready for us to move in, so I would imagine
that yes, the space will be open more once we have moved.

The bigger question raised by this is why you don't feel you should
apply for keyholder status? We have seen this before and we are trying
to encourage more people to be keyholders, it would be a good thing if
we were looking at less than 10% of members are not keyholders.

There are definitely people who would get more out of the space if it
were open more often, and the problem sort of solves itself if those
people become keyholders!

Being a keyholder is not an onerous responsibility, anyone who is able
to leave home without leaving the cooker on should be capable, and the
bar is not meant to be high at all. Just high enough to save us from
all the kit vanishing overnight and the space not burning down in basic
terms.

So, please can we know what's putting you off?

Cheers,
--
Martyn

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[Marc Jennings]

Essentially, my reticence about keyholding is in relation to the membership policy wording "New keyholders must be endorsed by two existing keyholders whom trust the hackspace member being endorsed.".

I'm in kind of a catch 22 - I work away a lot and so making it to events is not always possible, and thus it is difficult ask anyone to vouch for me as being trustworthy.

[mar...@ranyard.info]

Hi Marc,

Thanks for clarifying that, it's really useful to us as a group.

I suspect that it's a very subjective phrase that might need some
tweaking.

I'm going to start another thread to talk about this in general, but
specifically, don't be worried about asking people you've only seen
twice, the worst they can say is "I'm not sure I know you well enough"
which is actually not likely, most of us are very happy to back people
relatively quickly :-)

Cheers,
--
Martyn

[Matt C]

Hi Marc,

Sorry to hear you have been having trouble accessing the space, it must be frustrating!

The whole two member vouch thing can be long winded if you are unable to make it to open nights etc, as Martyn says we are trying yo find ways to make it easier.

Can I suggest you email us at dire...@leedshackspace.org.uk and maybe arrange a time when you are in Leeds just to come in for a cup of tea and to say hello, that way hopefully we can get the ball rolling on your 24/7 access.

Ta,
Matt

[Michael W]

I sympathise Marc I had the same issue a few years ago when I joined. Things were improved somewhat since then but there's clearly still an issue here which has been hotly debated before. Thanks for bringing it to light.

Sounds like the directors have a good plan to improve the situation. I think it would be useful for you to provide your feedback to them on how that works out for you.

The space needs to ease the progression from interested visitor to full member as much as possible. It's not easy to walk into a room full of strangers and make a commitment to stay any barriers to that happening need to be reduced.

M

[Marc Jennings]

Sounds like a plan.  I will try to get along on Tuesday since I am in Yorkshire this week (rare), or failing that later in the week.

[Andy Cook]

I'll propose anyone who asks me... The whole endorsing thing has been outgrown.

[Matt Collins]

+1

On 11 Sep 2016 4:19 p.m., "Andy Cook" <onlyha...@gmail.com> wrote:

I'll propose anyone who asks me... The whole endorsing thing has been outgrown.

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[Christopher Stanton]

I thought you were married already?

On 11 Sep 2016 16:19, "Andy Cook" <onlyha...@gmail.com> wrote:

I'll propose anyone who asks me... The whole endorsing thing has been outgrown.

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[Matt Collins]

Currently I would only back people I've met. We need to create an environment and the resources so that 24hr access for doesn't seem like a huge risk or problem. But I think that will require big, positive, changes in how our infrastructure and the space in general works so that the the entire membership feels comfortable with it. I think 24hr access for all should be a goal for the space.

[Samwise Wilson]

Along a similar thread to the OP:

Maybe resourcing another open night or at least a monthly class / talk / lecture will help seed activity.

[Christopher Stanton]

What're you offering to host?

Currently the second saturday of the month opening day has weak attendance, regardless of advertising.

On Sun, Sep 11, 2016 at 11:50 PM, Samwise Wilson <s...@swwils.com> wrote:

Along a similar thread to the OP:

Maybe resourcing another open night or at least a monthly class / talk / lecture will help seed activity.

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[samson B]

im not sure what this is in relation to as I only have two emails but why is it the second Saturday as that's an odd one to remember the first or last would be a better day to hold one ?

[Stanto]

A few reasons:

1. There's always something else on the first or second saturday of the month

2. When I first started it, I was only available on the second saturday of the month

3. There haven't been any problems in people remembering it really, since it has been stated on social media, the website and meetup.com

4. All of the above.

On Monday, 10 October 2016 15:51:38 UTC+1, samson B wrote:

im not sure what this is in relation to as I only have two emails but why is it the second Saturday as that's an odd one to remember the first or last would be a better day to hold one ?

On Mon, Oct 10, 2016 at 12:33 PM, Christopher Stanton <sta...@gmail.com> wrote:

What're you offering to host?

Currently the second saturday of the month opening day has weak attendance, regardless of advertising.

On Sun, Sep 11, 2016 at 11:50 PM, Samwise Wilson <s...@swwils.com> wrote:

Along a similar thread to the OP:

Maybe resourcing another open night or at least a monthly class / talk / lecture will help seed activity.

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[Christopher Stanton]

Tired mind, correction:

"1. There's always something else on the first or last saturday of the month"

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[samson B]

are fer enouth its defornatly worth keeping it on a weekend as I have mates that work all nights and that will be there only time to pop down ( if I ever make then wake up on time ) the idea of workshops is a good one and with the new space have one personal for the open day and one for the work shop that way its a win win ?

[Stanto]

> the idea of workshops is a good one and with the new space have one personal for the open day and one for the work shop that way its a win win ?

Could you explain with more detail what you mean?

[samson B]

sorry not very good over texted based media. you could have a metal work shop for instance happening but at the same time still have the normal open day taking place in the main space so if someone wants to attend the workshop but gets a lift with someone who wants to code there all happy just need to make sure we have someone to run the workshop and another to look after the open day ( hope his makes more sence ) so you are doubling your audiences in theory

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[Stanto]

I see what you're saying. Workshops are usually, purposefully done at a different time to open evenings/open days for the reason that a cost has to be charged which covers the resources and time needed for the workshop. Open evenings can also be disruptive to a teaching environment where people are trying to focus on learning.

Having an open evening or open day where there is a purpose alongside checking out what the Hackspace has to offer is a good idea, though it does not have to be a workshop in the classroom teaching sense, it could be a collaborative drop-in and take part creating type of workshop which is easier to get into and take part of. Like having everyone solder their own open-day badge, or creating something a bit more craft like, perhaps making a simple design which will be cut on the laser cutter by an inducted member which they can then take away with them.

[samson B]

ye thats sounds a good idea to could also have and ask an exspirt kind of idea to go along with it somthing like "having problems 3D printing we will have our hack space 3D exspirt down here this week to answer any questions "? dosent have to be like that but you get the idea . what you have put would be great for satadays as it gives people a reason to go and they want real nervus like i did just going to say hi :)

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[Stanto]

The 'ask an expert' concept is a good idea in theory, in practice it puts a lot of pressure and expectation on a singular person.

Is there any event like we've discussed that you would run?

[samson B]

the ask an expert dosent have to be every mounth the idea you had is best for reguler use the ask an exspirt could be good as a filler every now and then that way theres hopfuly not to mutch prsure on people ? , at the moment not realy im not trained on any of the gear ( have been wating for te move) and im no good at coding ( any thing usfull that is ) the only thing i could do at the moment is play host to the open day side or perhaps help with peoples soldering ? 

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[Stanto]

>  the only thing i could do at the moment is play host to the open day side or perhaps help with peoples soldering ? 

This sounds really useful and awesome, after we've moved hackspace we can see how the accessibility settles and let us know what you want to try out and we can advertise that out to get peoples attention.

[samson B]

theres nothing realy there to try hosting it just means I can meat and great people and I don't think soldering will get anyone's interest ? I might be able to do things a bit later on once iv been tried on some of the gear but I think we need sonone better then me to kik start this off ?

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[samson B]

saying that I coul do a very bastic introduction to electronic ciruits and if we can by this for of thing for cheep ( see below) it means we can re use it ( if we run more edvansted stuff we can make things they can keep ?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Snap-Circuits-Electronics-Discovery-Multi-Color/dp/B011M0XXXM/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1476201628&sr=8-6&keywords=Snap+Circuits

[Christopher Stanton]

Have a look on aliexpress.

[samson B]

hmm still between $20 and $50 but is cheaper there might be better things on the market I had a boared with string scips on and it was like paint by nmbers for cirut boareds no idea if they still make them or how mutch they would be  

[Matt Collins]

I think just committing to being there on a specific day each week/bi-weekly would be great as then you have another regular day that non-24hr access members can use the space, you don't need to run a workshop each time that could be something else.

[samson B]

that's very true and most possible would be good to see if we can do a survey to see what day people would most like and see if we can get a few keyholders to take it in terns making sure its open that day ?

[samson B]

so this email tred is about the open days and the space being open more generally ? (sorry for late reply at work ) I didn't get the first few emails so just double cheacking

[Stanto]

We tried that, it was not conclusive. The typical mantra is "choose a day and stick with it, if in doubt, choose tuesday, because that's just as good as any other day" which is why our current open day is tuesday.

The best approach if you're wanting to run another open night or day, is to run it yourself for a number of weeks/months and then judge it from there. I ran the second saturday of the month for a while until I decided "should we really still be doing this?" and other keyholders decided that we should and it gets passed around as to whom hosts it now.

"so this email tred is about the open days and the space being open more generally ? (sorry for late reply at work ) I didn't get the first few emails so just double cheacking"

Pretty much. This conversation surfaces at least once a year when a few people raise it and then goes to silence again, typically.

[samson B]

are fer dose and cool thort i would check . well as im hopfuly going back to rotation shifts ill be down every other tusday and hopfuly be working on things every other satadey so i get down once a week it will be un a fishell but that might help people ?

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[Stanto]

We should talk about it in person when the open evenings start again at the new hackspace :)

[samson B]

prob best as u can see my spelling is bad 

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[Samwise Wilson]

I think more "open days" just encourages freeloaders. Tuesdays and the sat are fine. From the actual member status numbers, it isn't hard to get access and pop down whenever you like.

What I was thinking was more curated events, that always seem pretty popular and act as a springboard for people to come down who wouldn't normally - newspace is capable of a good capacity and layout, both in terms of mainspace and facilities. - Alot of the "policy" type changes are to encourage these activities / make them easier to execute, at the moment its very difficult to plan these things without asking lots of permissions and even then you still arent sure because of some strange eventuality / beef / legacy thing; lets reduce the liability load on event organizers, or perhaps even facilitate them with resources and more transparent infrastructure!

Hack the space day should become a more stringent thing, we have more space to maintain and improve-on now, and will have plenty of tasks post-move into the foreseeable future.

Members-only groups also need seeding, e.g. metalbashers, frag-night, etc perhaps on a good day/evening for those group when they exist. 

I guess a nominated calendar champion might be good for the space? 

On Wednesday, 7 September 2016 11:24:34 UTC+1, Marc Jennings wrote:

Hi all, 

First things first : this isn't meant to be a rant, but it may turn into something resembling one.  Apologies in advance if it gets anyone's backs up.  That's not the intent.

I've found over the past few months that the space is unavailable to members at many of the times I've wanted to come along.  As a result, I think I have used the space twice in the 5 months since I joined up.  I know there is a lot going on at the new space and so there have not been as many folks at the old space as a result.  I was wondering if there are plans for extended availability at the new space without having to be a keyholder (I am not comfortable applying for keyholder status myself, even if I was known enough or trusted to be such).  I am conscious that I have been paying my monthly fees for 5 months, and the maths just don't add up for me right now - £62 per hour to use the space is less than ideal, as I'm sure you can imagine.

TL;DR:

The space seems always to be shut whenever I want to use it.  Is that going to be less of an issue in the new space?

Thanks

Marc.

[Marc Jennings]

For the record, I am trying to organise a one-off, two day event as an introduction to building cigar box guitars.  I have a provisional OK from the directors, and I firmly believe that this kind of even is something that would pronmote the space as well as providing a platform for those interested in the instrument building side.

[samson B]

sam i wasnt meaning added any more open days just opening the space to the members and its good having a none strengent open day having an event every now and then is not a prob but as chris said to me it will ad a lot of stress to people if we need a class every week

--

[Aidan Dunbar]

I think we're going around in circles here, everyone please discuss in person on the next open night.

Thanks,

Aidan

[Tim Pinder]

On 12 Oct 2016, at 10:08, Stanto <sta...@gmail.com> wrote:

The typical mantra is "choose a day and stick with it, if in doubt, choose tuesday, because that's just as good as any other day" which is why our current open day is tuesday.

There are always going to be days that some people have no other commitments and other people are already committed.

Personally, because of my work pattern, I’d like the open evening to be on a Thursday since I can have a lie-in on Friday morning :)

Tim