Kickstarting the renovations - This weekened!

[J C]

On Friday I pick up the keys to hackspace 3.0. and aim to be in the new hackspace for  2:30. If anyone wants to come down for a look around/ discuss planning, help with cleaning then I will be there until around 6, then back int he next day from around 11 til 4

We will be making a set of keys available for 24/7 members to access the new space and get stuck into the renovations. 

The first jobs will be cleaning, lots of cleaning, working out where we want walls and possibly painting.  

Come get involved. 

Joe

 

[Tom Oldbury (Email #1)]

Out of interest, how are we getting rid of any of the junk in the new space, do we have a skip or something else arranged?

[J C]

Not yet, there is not much there at the moment, I suggest we fill the back room with rubbish for now then empty in one go with a while you wait skip. Having a skip delivered and left there for a while will likely put us on a bad start with the neighbours

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[stethe...@googlemail.com]

Not yet a member but if you want a extra hand for a few hours on Friday I'm going to be a loose end.

[tmp...@gmail.com]

To save moving all the junk through the building twice can I suggest it be stored as close as possible to where the skip will be?

[J C]

If we work out a way of doing that without needing to do anything with the floor underneath the crap sure. But we will need to do stuff to the floor underneath the crap.

[tmp...@gmail.com]

While you're there you might want to think about how to supply hot water to the kitchen/toilets and (if necessary) wet area/darkroom. I'd favour small  (10 litre? smaller?) local vented systems like <http://www.neweyandeyre.co.uk/product/2500389249/Heatrae-Sadia-Vented-Water-Heater,-Streamline,-Undersink-Only,-7ltr,-3kW>

[Samwise Wilson]

We already have hot water heaters on each tap in the back room. 

[tmp...@gmail.com]

that's a start then :)

[Samwise Wilson]

Yep and noted for the other rooms thanks for the reminder. Please add anything further to the Gantt chart!

[Andy51055]

Having cleaned out the 'hinges' of the back bathroom windows, it's looking more and more like replacing at least one, probably two of them would be a very good idea. The bottom hinge on one has gone, sheared or similar so that it moves separately from the rest of the window. The other still doesn't quite close despite being freed up enough to open further.
I'll have another go at it tomorrow and see if I can find out what's stopping it from shutting.

[Onlyhalfdone]

Are they metal Windows?

Just so you know in construction we always presume metal Windows installed pre 1995 to have asbestos gasket usually between the glass pain and the metal frame. If there are multiple frames joined together or the whole window is in a sub frame it can be between the frames and also between frames and masonry. The putty can also have it in.

It's hard to believe but we only stopped installing asbestos products in 2000! And I'm sure even then unscrupulous builders used up any stock piles of products after this date.

[J C]

That was certainly unexpected. The information from the landlord is that there shouldn't be any asbestos. However we will get it double checked asap.

Halt any destructive work that has any room for doubt until we get the results please.

[Onlyhalfdone]

It's a legal requirement to maintain an asbestos register for any building likely to contain asbestos. Hence while looking at the building originally and the subsequent conversation about inc. next door had found some I'd suggested getting a copy or asking the landlord to survey it.

Plastic black toilet cisterns are usually asbestos, underneath sinks if they have a square plastic looking pad is usually asbestos. But then plasterboard can have it in, it was stamped asbestolux on the reverse, Vinyl floor tiles, paint to the structural steelwork is usually a sure thing. There are around 5000 uk products containing asbestos.

[Andy51055]

Definitely. I'll stick to filling , sanding and painting the walls then.
"Any thing done for the first time unleashes a demon."

Suddenly I'm very glad I wore the high spec breathing mask while doing the windows.

[Samwise Wilson]

A full survey is happening this Thursday in relation to what we are going to be working on.

We are also getting all the info available from the landlord in conjunction with this.

[Andy51055]

The guys who have been working on the roof turned up yesterday and said that they would be doing the last layer at some point in the week and would take their stuff from the back room then. So at that point we'll see what has been left for us; paint sprayer? hydraulic jack (vendo on wheels!)? and stuff...

[Jon Stockill]

If we're replacing 2 then we may as well do all 3 (subject to the checks
mentioned elsewhere in this thread).

--
Jon Stockill
li...@stockill.net

[Onlyhalfdone]

Samwise, great! We need to mark a plan up of what walls we are ever likely to remove / disturb in the future and ask them to sample it. Samples are a few pounds a sample get more not less. They surveyor will sample anything he thinks is a risk, he won't sample items he is sure are safe. It is Deffo worth mentioning we don't know the origins of the larger ceiling tiles that have since appeared in the back room plus the higher level ones near the door way.

It's quite common not to sample things above 2m in height! So just make sure they are clear we want the high stuff inspected. If in doubt tell the landlord we intend to take all the partition walls down even the stuff infront of the existing brickwork on the left hand side as you go in.

Any questions just call me for ease, joe has my number.

[J C]

Thank you Andy

[Samwise Wilson]

Cheers Andy,

We're going with acorn as  - they did a survey for the union's major works that I saw the results from and I was impressed. They have already asked about working above 3m and are aware of the works we propose so I will make sure they are on point and ill let them know the bits you have highlighted. 

Might be nice for anyone who sees the roofers to ask if we can use the pallet jack or other items - they should be coming around soon by the sounds of it.

[Onlyhalfdone]

Samwise who is paying for the survey if it's the hackspace how much is it costing?

It should be the land lord picking up the cost really as it should already be in place

[Samwise Wilson]

Its us for £300 +VAT to get a refurbishment survey and report but we are speaking with landlord - we are getting that price because its a tiny job for them and the director liked what we do.

Andy if we get some detailed measurements can your recommend a place to get materials / check our baskets before checkout? There are a few local but you may have better?

We probably want to make the skylight areas good asap as well as get the partition walls in getting the work at height out of the way with our handiest people. I believe the current plan of action with flooring is to sand the front part of the flooring and varnish, seal / self level the middle section and paint / self level the workshop concrete - any advice on the middle section would be appreciated because at the end of the day floor is floor and we are saving the bit that is recoverable. 

[Onlyhalfdone]

If it's a demolition and refurbishment survey or otherwise known by a type 3 serval then that's a very good price. Are they providing the access above 3 metres? Fingers crossed they don't find anything.

Materials wise.
Dragon timber or Arnold laver for timber, make a list and ask them for a quote per linear metre / sheet or get a list together and I'll order it but allow 4 working days delivery.

Sheffield insulation (SIG) for ceiling tiles, plasterboard, metal stood, sound quilt. Work out how many you want and again don't mind getting a quote. If You separate it out into the smaller rooms we might be able to get some odd random boxes for these.

Self levelling screed / fixings I would set up an account with ready fix I should be able to get us similar discounts as I receive for our £200m company but I'll need directors consent to apply for accounts for the above, you would have to sign the account forms.

I know everyone's excited but don't be buying materials from wicks, homemade etc you will pay 4x the price, fixing 10x the price. Screw fix are as competitive as most trade places and convenient. Someone needs allocated as the money man and all members need to go through them before rushing out and buying stuff or you will end up with loads of expensive materials delivered at the wrong time.

Price everything in advance / work out the quantities be organised and awesome.

I think SIG do metal stood also

[meriel...@gmail.com]

Hi Joe,

So I haven't been around for a month, had a lot on. I gather things are moving fast with the new space. I'm free on friday afternoon and was planning to come down to the space to do some tinkering but if you need an extra pair of hands I can come help clear the new space.

Meriel

[J C]

Hi Meriel sorry for the delay in getting back to you. We are holding off most work in the new space til after the weekend so happy tinkering at the current space for now.
Thanks for the offer.

Joe

[J C]

Hi Andy could you set us up the account for ready fix please? 

Thanks

Joe

[Onlyhalfdone]

I got the form on Friday, It's on my work laptop so will send it tomorrow.

Cheers

[Onlyhalfdone]

Has the survey results come back?

[J C]

Thanks Andy. 

Looking for screed now, finding it hard to determine if its suitable for final finish. Couldnt see anything on ready fix that wasnt a preparation for something on top. Screfix had http://www.screwfix.com/p/mapei-ultraplan-self-levelling-compound-grey-25kg/4959f which kind of looks right but still not clear if its good as a final surface, any suggestions? 

Thanks again.

Joe

On Mon, Jun 27, 2016 at 8:23 PM, Onlyhalfdone <onlyha...@gmail.com> wrote:

Has the survey results come back?

[J C]

Also survey not back yet, we had expected it today so assume it will be here tomorrow?

[Samwise Wilson]

Been away today, I'll give them a call tomorrow. 

On the day the inspector had no initial worrys at all, saying we had a standard material shell to work with but he took samples of all the floor / tiles underlay too as those were what he highlighted as sometimes coming back with it in. 

[Samwise Wilson]

Report can be found here:

https://drive.google.com/a/swwils.com/file/d/0B9wJx1ZJJ_8-b1FyZ2dIb2lEYjA/view?usp=drivesdk

[YouMustBe Joking]

I guess the most important result is that we can carry on doing whatever we need to

On Thursday, 30 June 2016, Samwise Wilson <s...@swwils.com> wrote:

Report can be found here:

https://drive.google.com/a/swwils.com/file/d/0B9wJx1ZJJ_8-b1FyZ2dIb2lEYjA/view?usp=drivesdk

[J C]

Kind of not quite.

Just been speaking to onlyhalfdone Andy and he pointed out we were planning on drilling into that screed where the workshop will go so we need a plan B. Of which we can come up with. Andy will get internet later an comment himself.

Also if it's where we are planning on using heavy tools maybe it's not going to be great if someone drops something heavy on it and it gets damaged maybe that's bad too.

And to be clear no taking up the bathroom carpet.

Joe

[J C]

Basically don't do work on those areas till Andy has had time to comment on here. It won't be a long wait.

[Onlyhalfdone]

The good news is the majority of hackspace 3.0 is asbestos free, but not all of it which is a massive surprise for a building of this age!

So how does this affect us in the space.
If we do nothing to these areas then we just need to protect the areas from further degregation. The problem is we want to do work to these areas.

The area with the carpet I think this is existing bathroom. As long as we don't remove the carpet we are fine. If you want tot remove the carpet the we will need a none licenced asbestos remover to do so (this term is misleading, it involves a man in full suite and breathing apereratus and a health surveylance chap.Then cover the floor with a screed to encapsulate the asbestos glue! Then resurface it with carpet.

The workshop area. A little more troublesome, is a case of don't sand, agitate or scrape the floor... Certainly don't drill the floor!

[J C]

Ok we can leave the carpet in the bathroom for now.

For building the wall in the workshop can we just use the trade version of no more nails?

Do we need to put a layer down over the workshop such as vinyl or non asbestos screed or should normal wear and tear from the workshop be safe on there?

[Onlyhalfdone]

From what I can interpret from the report it sounds like there is a coat of bitumin impregnated with asbestos that's been used as a damp proof layer under the concrete screed. I think it might just be the edges of the bitumen are visible around the perimeter. I will speak to acorn today and clarify. I'll find out if they did any visual survey of the store room or if they just used it as an excuse not to go in there. This is typical of surveyors, I once had a room at Leeds uni that had a single practically empty card board box stood in front of a door and the surveyor photographed the box and put no access to room on the survey this is lazy and unhelpful. It wasn't acorn in the instance I mention.

Basically Joe if we can't drill it then yes. But let me speak to acorn first.

If anyone is at the space this afternoon I'll Bob in and take a look. I have a fire alarm panel to drop off and some marker paint.

[J C]

Ok thank you Andy.

[Samwise Wilson]

I can be available to give you access if you need Andy, I'll email you my number.

Jerry mentioned he wanted to get to the left conner of the store room but there was too much crap to move.

[George Scott]

Also, I'm guessing the landlord has no responsibility for this, or would be willing to help cover some of the cost? - given asbestos is really bad for business...

On 30 Jun 2016 23:43, "George Scott" <gds...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hey all,

What's the cost:benefit ratio on this?

It sounds that with it being the floor (a physical foundation to the space) this is not just going to be a limiting factor now, but a headache for potentially other future space developments?

It's a pain, granted; but if the cost can be brought in budget, and justified, (while a painful hit, and detractor from much more interesting purchases), it would mean the "house was in order", and short-termism doesn't hinder long-term happiness.

Just a thought.

George.

[Onlyhalfdone]

Ok asbestos update. I've spoken to the surveyor who visited the space.

The carpet to the toilet, it's safe to remove, the problem area is in the adhesive beneath this not holding the carpet down but the residue from the old floor tile prior to the carpet. As long as we don't sand this it's fine, i would avoid drilling the floor but I'll look at this when I am next there.

The area identified in the workshop area, it's the actual concrete screed that is entirely impregnated with asbestos. So absolutely NO drilling, scraping, sanding this area of floor. It wants sprayed up with marker paint for now indicating the extent of it and noted not to fiddle with it. The stud walling will require adhesive to stick down the bottom track, not sure what to use as yet. Probably no more nails, but need to check its suitability of how it cures. So how dangerous is this asbestos. It's not if its not disturbed, the risk is very small, the fibres are embedded with the screed and unlikely to be released to a actionable level through normal use. So basically we will probably self level imperfections and paint with floor paint.

The room with the stored materials in that's marked as not surveyed, has been surveyed but basically it's a caveat to say they haven't rummaged through the contents. The floor was checked and the ceiling tiles inspected. I have no reason to believe there is anything of risk in this area.

So a good bill of health. I would pass a copy on to the landlord of the survey for his records and see says. It would be nice if he paid the cost of the survey. There is no need to remove the screed or old tile adhesive unless we wanted a very large bill. We need to set up an asbestos register which basically is a folder containing the report, then a sheet at the front to say you have read and checked the report for areas identified as having asbestos and know not to disturb it. I can put this together, but someone else might have to print it depending when I can get over next.

Unless you have experience in asbestos I don't want to see any comments or recommendations posted on here without first consulting myself, well meaning but misguided advice will mucky the waters. PM me or get my number from one of the directors.

[J C]

Thank you Andy, That really clarifies the situation nicely for us.

Joe 

[jac...@hotmail.co.uk]

Hi all

Just to quickly introduce myself, I'm Jack, 25 and literally just discovered what hack spaces are and this is the closest one to me.

Just a quick bit of background on me, my parents are the directors of a demolition company and I mainly run the health safety and environmental aspects of things. I run our waste transfer station (located at WF9) so getting rid of materials is something I can help with. And whilst not a chartered surveyor (my brother is) I'm fairly experienced regarding asbestos and have produced a number of Asbestos surveys and personally done asbestos removal works.

I've access to a ridiculous number of materials (we just did the strip out at the engineering building at Leeds university)

Sorry this is a bit of a ramble and my formatting has got all jumbled on mobile but if anyone thinks there's anything I could assist with please let me know.

Best regards

Jack

[Samwise Wilson]

Hi Jack,

Awesome! Sounds like you could come in very handy! 

A bit of Leeds Hackspace info: Our open nights are Tuesdays from 7pm, I hope you can make it down and someone will be able to give you a tour and you'll be able to see some of our members projects.

As you can probably figure we are in the middle of a move into a new space so anything like skills, expertise and materials for this would be very welcome for the space!

[J C]

Hi Jack,

It would be great to have your expertise.

One thing you did forget was to say what sparked your interest in hackspaces in general?

You coming down tomorrow? We will give you a tour of our current t space and you can tell us what kind of stuff you are looking to make and Hack.

Looking forward to meeting you.

Joe

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